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Installing XP onto usb hdd but unable to boot!

JP09

By JP09
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JP09

JP09

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Posted (edited)

Hello All,

First of all I appologise if this has been posted before, if so could you give me the link :) . I have looked through the 10 pages in this section (might have missed it :lol:) and was reading dietmar's tutorials in the CD forum which now appears to be broken :o or its being moved????

Basically I am trying to install xp onto a usb hdd as you probably already figured :). But with the source located in partion one of the usb harddisk. Before I begin i have changed the bios options to: 1st boot - USB, sata operation mode: compatable.

1) I have editted the required files shown in http://www.ngine.de/article/id/8.

copied them to xp source & into a cd iso of my xp install (yes i do have a back up of the iso and deleted the usb.in_, usbstor.in_ etc that were in the i386 folder)

Tried multiboot using the xp source (with modded files) couldnt install cos xp saw the other partition as raw space / removable disks.

nor could i install via recovery console..unable to use the chdir command keep getting "access denied"....

2) Tried via another usb couldnt create the windows folder.. however was able to install via iso mounted via the u3 sandisk cruzer but bsod due to the usb reset (hmm guessing need to add the ram disk from the windows server 2003 sp1 what else would i need apart from the ram disk file?

3) I also unable to edit the reg hives using another pc from the usb install as it seems windows has locked it..:realmad: (is moving the usb drivers to the bootbusextenders.load etc in the txtsetup.sif sufficient rather than editting the registery hives?)

4) soo now I am trying to install by copying the entire contents of xp cd into partition 1 (ntfs), ive got the IO.sys, MSDOS.SYS, CONFIG.SYS (what else do I need)?

once again I appologise if its a double post and its length!

any ideas would be much appreciated.

many thanks in advance

JP

P.S

incase anyone is wondering - the oem installer (vista) I have a asus x56vr notebook somehow managed to merge the o/s partition (2) with my data partition (3) the DVD loads a ghost image in partition 1. the sata hdd is unplugged while im doing this and a CR assured me my warranty wont be void if i take the hdd out (well if a specialist does) :angel

Edit:

My system specs are: 4 gig ram, intel p8400 core2duo, oem vista 32 bit, xp 32 bit, usb booting supported by bios

Edited by JP09

jaclaz

jaclaz

Posted
Posted

Please don't take this as an offence, it is not meant to :), but I really cannot make head or tail of your reports. :unsure:

It seems like you tried everything all together, mixing up things from various sources, introducing a number of variations to different otherwise known-to-be-working methods. :w00t:

Dietmar's thread on 911CD is where it has always been:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=14181

The various versions of his Tutorial are linked to in his signature.

Version 3 and 5 are also pre-packaged on his site:

http://www.winusb.de/download_en.html

1) About the ngine.de guide, I have seen reports of failure in copying and pasting the configuration files, just in case see here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showto...19963&st=23

2) I simply cannot understand what you did and what you wanted to do.

About Server 2003 SP1 files, trditionally three files are used:

  1. SETUPLDR.BIN
  2. NTDETECT.COM
  3. RAMDISK.SY_/RAMDISK.SYS

But further research has shown that:

  • SETUPLDR.BIN is NEEDED
  • NTDETECT.COM can be substituted with any XP/2003 one
  • RAMDISK.SY_/RAMDISK.SYS can be substituted by SOME other XP versions.

All in all, and to be on the safe side use SETUPLDR.BIN and RAMDISK.SY_/RAMDISK.SYS from Server 2003 SP1 or R2, NOT from SP2.

3) I simply cannot understand what you did and what you wanted to do.

Of course the modifications to txtsetup.sif are sufficient.

4) This simply makes NO sense whatsoever.

DOS cannot access NTFS, it is possible to add NTFS capabilities to DOS, through the NTFS4DOS package from Avira, but it would represent yet another variable that could cause problems.

Read here about the "old" method to install via DOS and WINNT.EXE:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=16713

I have the feeling that a probably working method you should look into is this one:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=121446

(using a booted PE to install the XP)

Ideally, you should try explaining in detail, but without being verbose, what you are trying to achieve, and we'll try to suggest you a hopefully working method.

Try using as reference the "common sense advice" you can find here:

http://www.boot-land.net/forums/index.php?act=boardrules

jaclaz

JP09

JP09

Posted
  • Author
Posted

No offence taken, I appologise if I didnt make any sense my head was still spinning from reading all that info :wacko:.

I started looking at booting xp from usb after the vista oem dvd (which launches a ghost image) bizarrely merged two partitions together. One contained the o/s the other my data..

Thanks for your reply jaclaz :thumbup: . Basically this is what I want to do:

1) be able to install from a usb hdd partition into another partition on the same hdd or internal hdd as a failsafe

2) and or have a full working xp which I can use as a recovery tool.

Thats it really.

First of all I will try the methods you've suggested & report back - beginning with the "old method -

(kinda did forget dos couldnt read ntfs) :lol:

4) This simply makes NO sense whatsoever.

DOS cannot access NTFS, it is possible to add NTFS capabilities to DOS, through the NTFS4DOS package from Avira, but it would represent yet another variable that could cause problems.

Read here about the "old" method to install via DOS and WINNT.EXE:

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=16713

I have the feeling that a probably working method you should look into is this one:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=121446

(using a booted PE to install the XP)

You have cleared up the confusion of what files are needed

About Server 2003 SP1 files, trditionally three files are used:

1. SETUPLDR.BIN

2. NTDETECT.COM

3. RAMDISK.SY_/RAMDISK.SYS

But further research has shown that:

* SETUPLDR.BIN is NEEDED

* NTDETECT.COM can be substituted with any XP/2003 one

* RAMDISK.SY_/RAMDISK.SYS can be substituted by SOME other XP versions.

Second of all-

Ok I hope this is more clear:

1) I used usb multiboot to copy the source to partion 1 of the usb hdd, when getting to the partitoning stage of the setup. Couldnot create other partitions as it saw the raw space as a 'removable disk'. Thus I tried the recovery console

however was unable to launch winnt.exe from the $winnt~ls$ folder kept getting access denied..same with other dirs when using the chdir command.

2)Mounted iso via u3 customiser (be warned this reduced my 16 gb usb to 2.4 gb! course I panicked) when i saw it what it did :lol:. Was able to boot but upon loading windows setup (txt mode) the usb would reset and voila a bsod. (however i didnt copy the ramdisk, setupldrbin files from the win 03 sp1 into the iso which was mounted).

3) Used usb multi boot this time on a usb stick (san disk cruzer) h/e the U3 launchpad must be removed must be removed (here is the link http://www.instructables.com/id/Using_U3_T...n_an_8G_Cruzer)

otherwise the bios will detect 2 mass storage drive instead of 1 and will just hang with a flashing "_". Also the link has an alternative method for mounting the iso via U3 without drastic space loss.

However was able to boot, create partition, format but unable to install - "setup cannot create folders: /windows"

4) tryed to copy the source into partition one and boot of it - which I will look at again after awhile when I've got nothing to do and got xp booting of the usb hdd as this seems to be the 2nd simplest method which I could pass onto my friends.

This i tried so I could learn something new-

5) I was reading Dietmar's tutorial and installed via my orig xp cd onto the usb hdd (partion 2) so I would get a fresh xp with pretty much all the files including the reg hive which seemed to have been locked *_* by XP (using a 500 mhz dell with 256 mb ram yes i know its slooow which is probably why firefox suddenly kept reporting the link to Dietmar's tutorial was broken :angry: ) .

Hope this makes sense and isn't verbose.

Once again thank you jaclaz for the links :)

Once again appologies for the long essay..

Best regards & many thanks

JP

JP09

JP09

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

ok a quick update:

I have manged to get my usb hdd to boot into win98 se recovery mode using the method in this link

http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=16713

But with a twist:

intially i formatted the hdd with the HP USB format tool then I realised what is the point? it only copies three files...:lol:

so since I am installing to the same hdd -


  1. 1) I created a fat12 partition off 8 mb and used the trial version of winimage to write the bootse.exe to the partition (chose disk then the 8 mb partition then chose write.
    2) checked the computer management mmc showed bootse98 which was then made active via right click
    3) Created another partition also fat32 at 1.2 GB
    4) Copied the contents of win98se image into the 1.2 GB Partition
    5) Created a folder called XPPRO in the the 1.2 GB Partition
    6) Copied the entire contents of the xp cd into the folder XPPRO

7) Created a 3rd partition roughly 10 gb (depends how much you'd want 6gb is fine)

8) Plugged usb hdd into laptop and booted straight into windows 98 recovery automatically, chose option 2

9) loaded straight into C:\

10) Typed D:

11) Typed SMARTDRV

12) Typed chdir WINXPPRO\i386

13) Typed winnt.exe

14) Pressed enter

now at this stage I'm getting an error that there is not enough freespace.

I will continue working on this and will post an update when I can

edit: just added the numbers to make it easier to follow :)

JP

Edited by JP09
jaclaz

jaclaz

Posted
Posted (edited)

I can see some good progresses :thumbup , it is possible that WINNT.EXE cannot "automagically" find the "right" partition to copy files and install, try with command line options :unsure: to "force" the right targets:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library...372(WS.10).aspx

http://labmice.techtarget.com/articles/winntcmd.htm

I don't want to confuse you introducing "new" additional things, but since you seem like one willng to exeriment :), have a look at this (AND links within) ;):

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=129454

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
JP09

JP09

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Will have a good look at those links over the week , these

are verry interesting, thanks for the links :)

will dp goood long analysis on this one :lol:

Here is another update:

After several attempts of trying to get the past the "insufficient space" error, modifying the ramdrive.sys hosed the boot :lol:

As I chatted to a good friend of mine, he suggested why didnt i try doing the same with XP Boot disk imgs.. (doh why didnt i think of that!)

Before I begin the steps listed below from step 4a are the only ones that seemed to produce a result.

here is what I did:

1) Downloaded the bootdisk imgs from allbootdisk.com

2) Used winimg to extract all the files to a dir called "xp pro imgs"

3) Removed the "Disk 101, Disk 102, Disk 103, Disk 104, Disk 105, Disk 106" files

4) Set them aside

4a) Created a new primary fat partition at 1 gb - drive i: marked active (at this point I had moved the 1.2 gb partition to the end of hdd now drive F:)

5) Loaded up winimage

6) Loaded up the 1st image "WindowsXP_Pro_SP2_Disk1"

7) Selected disk, drive i: then Selected write,

8) After it had written to drive i:, created the $WIN_NT$~BT folder copied the contents of "xp pro imgs" into $WIN_NT$~BT

9)left Ntdetect.com and setupdlr.bin at the root of drive i:

10) copied the i386 folder into $WIN_NT$~LS folder from drive f:

11) now getting txtsetup.sif is corrupt, error on line 18 :angry:

This is where I am at now, this could be cos a)used modded files from tech spot b)file didnt copy properly c) due to the txtsetup.sy_ file included in the boot disk imgs (the first img)

Also writing all the files to drive I: after creating a custom img with all the files resulted in "invalid system disk please remove etc etc" when trying to boot

In addition converting the fat partition to ntfs = "NTLDR not found" when attempting to boot, winimage will also freeze when attempting to write to a ntfs partition... I will try booting from a fat32 partition later on if the solutions i have in mind prove to be fruitless...

I will continue working on this and check out the other links after work tomorrow.

JP

Edit: its TXTSETUP.SI_ not SY_ oops

Edited by JP09
JP09

JP09

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

Wooot! finally I've got it working :P the only problem now is XP is on E...and a slight issue with the page file...

Ok for others that may be willing to try... I Have Not Tested the xp install extensively.. so if anyone else trys and finds anything let us know :). Will try to be as straight as possible for those not so tech-savy people appologies if its to looong to read!

What you need:


  1. 1) Winimage
    2) Your XP CD (or XP Source)
    3) Windows98se_img bootable floppy image (here:
http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/98.html - this img does not contain smartdrv i have included that with the files or u can use the images from here
http://www.bootdisk.com/bootdisk.htm shouldnt make much difference)
4) usb hdd with sufficient space (i have not tried this on a usb stick)
5) ramdrive.sy_ or ramdrive.sys & setupldr.bin from the windows 2003 service pack 1
(here: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...;displaylang=en )
6) service pack 2 (here:http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/xpsp2.html
or 3 (here: http://www.softwarepatch.com/windows/windo...ce-pack-3.html)
for xp incase any errors occur (they did for me)
7) modified files (usb.in_, usbstor.in_, usbport.in_, dosnet.inf, txtsetup.sif, usbboot.inf) from here techspot files (http://www.savefile.com/files/1883181) my files here (http://www.savefile.com/files/2163480)
8) Easeus Partion Manager (optional) to resize partitions - disadvantage it treats logical partitions as primary partitions..be weary when wanting to create an extended partition use the diskmanagement console instead via right clicking my computer
I have attached the files they are inside the usbboot.rar archive
Note: I am going to refer the fat format partition as I for the purpose of this tutorial.. also I am presuming there are only two partitions on the usb hdd when you have reached step 3
1) Prepping the usb hdd & source
make sure all your data is backed up if u try this as it means completely restructuring the partition table!..
  • Make a primary partition of 700 - 1 gb in fat format. (This will hold your xp source and windows98se bootfiles) and make this active!
    Make another partition also primary in fat32 format at around 700 mb
    *note* at this point you can create your windows ntfs partition but it maybe safer not to..
    take a note of the partition letters assigned.
    copy the modified usb.in_, usbstor.in_, usbport.in_, dosnet.inf, txtsetup.sif, usbboot.inf into the i386 folder
    along with setupldr.bin and ramdrive.sy_
    *NOTE*
    (the txtsetup.sif files in the usbboot.rar contains these lines under [setupData]
    SetupSourcePath = "\"
    SetupSourceDevice = \device\harddisk0\partition2
    I dont know if this helps or not... most probably not but I have not tested without these lines)
    where as the txtsetup.sif from techspot does not.

2) Copying / writing the files

Double click the windows 98se.img then "disk" at the top then select your fat format partition (drive I:) and then choose write at the bottom. Copy over smartdrv.exe (drag n drop into drive I:) this helps speed up the copying phase i think but not necessary.

Copy over your XP Source (i copied over the entire contents of my xp cd just to be sure but copying over i386 should suffice if not copy everything from the cd..)

3) Booting & installing

  • If done successfuly you will get a win 98 se boot up screen, choose either option 1 or 2 (doesnt make much difference just the load time). Note you may want to extract the service pack 2 or 3 I used winrar then right click extract to (name of service pack 2 or 3 files)
    Type smartdrv or just type the command below if you havent copied smartdrv to drive I:
    Type i386\winnt.exe /t D: (press enter on the screen to confirm installation file location)

If you have other partitions as fat32 You can cycle through D:, E: etc

Setup will copy the files at this point you may get errors (I got 3 - plugin.ocx, flash.ocx, sp2.cab) hopefully setup will not halt if those files are skipped (setup continued for me)

If you have encountered any errors I recommend you to power down and disconnect the usb hdd after setup has restarted and copy the skipped files into D:$WIN_NT$.LS~\i386.

*Hint* if you wish to keep these files copy the $WIN_NT$.LS~ folder into drive I: or anywhere you prefer.

  • Setup will restart and reboot with the following options:
    previous operating system on C:
    microsoft windows/upgrade
    Choose the 2nd option as the 1st will load dos
    Create the windows partition when at the partition screen (which will list all the current partition and setup should continue..
    (but you may get errors) skip (take a note of the files and add them into D:$WIN_NT$.LS~\i386 from sp3 or sp2 should setup halt..(didnt for me but i quitted setup and copied the files over)
    After you have reached the graphic part of the installation you will be prompted by setup saying the usb drivers are
    not valid (click yes at all prompts) they were made "invalid" by the modifications made to prevent xp from bsoding due to the usb reseting..
    And there you have it after setup completes a fully working xp with a few bugs maybe running from your usb hdd! BUT XP will be drive E!.

    You can easily hide (in the basic sense) the other drives by removing the drive letters by using the disk management console but XP will be drive E so be weary may cause some incompatability....

    You can use the D drive for the page file maybe or resize it to hold your data though I prefer to use it as a pagefile just incase something happens....
    Further more when I started up you might get framedyn.dll not found etc etc and getting the same prompt when you do pretty much anything
    this can be resolved by checking if the path under environment variables is the same as this:
    %SystemRoot%\System32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot\System32wbem
    Environment Variables can be found by right clicking my computer, properties then advanced then environment variables and in the system variables -
    path when double clicked is %SystemRoot%\System32;%SystemRoot%;%SystemRoot\System32wbem
    or alternatively going to windows\system32\dllcache and copying framedyn.dll into the wbem folder also found in System 32
    You can add ntfs capabilities by using avira's ntfs4dos by merging the contents of the windows 98se img and ntfs4dos files which cant be in a folder but in the root of the drive BUT! do not replace command.com cos it appears to be faulty...ntfs4dos has to be launched by typing (drive letter:ntfs4dos.exe) if you are in dos it will look like this C:\ntfs4dos.exe. However smartdrv will no longer work.
    If successfull you will get 3 options 1) ntfs4dos 2)defrag ntfs 3)ive forgotten.. this option oops

Other Tools:

Ntfs4Dos Files with bootable Iso

REMOVED LINK.

EDIT by jaclaz:

You must be joking :w00t:, READ RULES, and Rule #1a, particularly:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=18408

I have not tried this iso but used the files as indicated above:

The source of this file was a torrent I have scanned it my anti virus (symantec corporate ed) its clean.

Method Used - credits go to the poster http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=16713

A gazzillion thanks to jaclaz and this forum for its rich info source and my goood friends - they know who they are :):

References:


  1. 1)
http://www.vandomburg.net/installing-windows-xp-from-usb/
2) http://www.ngine.de/article/id/8.
3) http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic105734-6.html
4) http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library...372(WS.10).aspx
http://labmice.techtarget.com/articles/winntcmd.htm
5) http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=129454
6) http://www.911cd.net/forums//index.php?showtopic=14181
7) http://www.boot-land.net/forums/?showtopic=2254
8) http://tips.vlaurie.com/2006/05/23/recover...out-an-xp-disk/
and a whole others which i didnt bookmark...

Edit: can any of the mods change the topic name from "Installing XP onto usb hdd but unable to boot!, installing into partion 2 from source in partion 1" to "Installing XP onto usb hdd from source in partition 1" or "Installing XP onto usb hdd but unable to boot!, installing into partion 2 from source in partion 1 (solved)" ?

which ever you feel is apt

Many thanks

JP

Edited by jaclaz
JP09

JP09

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Posted

Cheers jaclaz :thumbup i'm reading through them now.

I forgot to mention a bizzare pop up that came up. Right after the intial boot where setup changes the resolution

It was a file download dialog box for oobe.htm with the save directy indicated as /system32/oobe.

when clicking save it didnt go to system32 and when cancelled setup appeared to just hang and remained with "please wait" - left it like that for 20 minutes so im guessing it hanged. So I turned my laptop off and it went straight to login with just the admin account showing.

However I just reinstalled XP as it appears installing my bluetooth drivers by selecting the inf files and clicking install via right click has caused XP to just hang after login. But this time there was no $win_nt$.bt~ folder in the fat partition. Previously it was there as I had turned it off a few minutes after it hanged as stated above.

Also as XP detects the harddrive as removable - it appears to scan all other partitions as removable drives thus increasing boot time.

JP

jaclaz

jaclaz

Posted
Posted (edited)
Also as XP detects the harddrive as removable - it appears to scan all other partitions as removable drives thus increasing boot time.

NO :angry: , it doesn't. :whistle:

If the device is seen as a "Removable" one, one, and ONLY one, partition is accessible/mountable.

If the device is seen as a "Fixed" one, all partitions are accessible/mountable.

If the device IS "Removable", you can trick Windows in seeing it as "Fixed" using a Filter driver. (cfadisk.sys or dummydisk.sys)

If the device IS "Fixed", you can trick Windows in seeing it as "Removable" using the "reversed" filter driver rdummy.sys

Or have you somehow managed to install the device as either "Fixable" or "Removed".....:w00t:

:P

jaclaz

Edited by jaclaz
JP09

JP09

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)

lol sorry about that I'm just kinda confused here as I have the "safely remove hardware" icon in the system tray. Also when I assign drive letters to both the fat\fat32 partition boot is noticeable longer namely a black screen before the logon screens lasting approx 10 to 20 seconds (i'm only guessing!) lol.

If the device is seen as a "Removable" one, one, and ONLY one, partition is accessible/mountable.

If the device is seen as a "Fixed" one, all partitions are accessible/mountable.

If the device IS "Removable", you can trick Windows in seeing it as "Fixed" using a Filter driver. (cfadisk.sys or dummydisk.sys)

If the device IS "Fixed", you can trick Windows in seeing it as "Removable" using the "reversed" filter driver rdummy.sys

Or have you somehow managed to install the device as either "Fixable" or "Removed".

jaclaz

Yes it does see it as a fixed drive evident in disk management and all drives are mountable/ partitions deletable.

EDIT:

I don't suppose cfadisk.sys or dummydisk.sys will remove the "safely remove hardware" icon from the system tray? :unsure:.

JP

Edited by JP09
jaclaz

jaclaz

Posted
Posted
I don't suppose cfadisk.sys or dummydisk.sys will remove the "safely remove hardware" icon from the system tray? :unsure:.

No, that happens for ANY "Mass Storage Device" connected to the USB bus, no matter if "Removable" or "Fixed".

See here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=34987

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showto...34987&st=53

Check also:

http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbstick_e.html

http://www.uwe-sieber.de/drivetools_e.html

http://www.uwe-sieber.de/usbdlm_e.html

AND:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=127729

http://mysite.verizon.net/kaakoon/hotswap/index_enu.htm

jaclaz

JP09

JP09

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for the links :), they are very intresting and full of useful info. The reason why I asked if the "safely remove icon" was removable; to avoid my siblings from removing the usb hdd by mistake. Then again if it was removed I realised by reading through the posts, what about the other usb devices such memory card readers etc.

I'll just hide it for now doing no harm by just sitting there :P.

Do you have a cache of techie links or something? lol because as I said they all contain alot of useful info, so thanks once again :).

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