Deploy Vista

[surfertje]

We are goiing to start with vista. At the moment we use winxp pro. Deploying is done with Ghost 8 and Ghostcastserver. Boot a pc with usb, restore the image, run sysprep afterlogin. PC number must be entered after reboot. A new sid is created by sysprep. Sysprep is also taking care of the log on to domain. The only problem i have now is that i cannot restore the Image when new harde arrives on the Dell machine's. Every new Dell machine i have to make a new install for xp and programm's and make a new image...

Ghost 8 is not working with Vista.

I would like to know how do you, if you make use of it, deploy Vista on a network. Also if you have running WindowsXP and Vista together.

Is there somewhere a guide for WDS. There are many terms on the internet to deploy with WDS. For example: WAIK, PDE2.0, PXE, Ximage etc. But there are more solutions like Ghost newest deployment software or Acronis true image snap deploy?

WDS is free so this is probable the best solution.

So how do you deploy vista and xp thru a domain network?

[cluberti]

We use WDS (Windows Deployment Services) running on a few Server 2008 boxes to deploy Vista WIM images from a PXE boot. These are not prebuilt in any way, they are straight WIM files from installation media (Vista Enterprise) that auto-register with the KMS servers, and SMS is used to install any software post-build and scripts for configuration.

During our migration, we were phasing out XP, so we made WIM images out of our current XP images (they aren't changing anymore), so we do once in a while deploy an XP box from WDS, but it's rare (it works, just rare for us to do nowadays).

Servers are built on a separate, self-contained network before they hit production, so we are still using 2003 Server running WDS in Mixed mode (so we can deploy 2003 RIS images and 2008 WIM images from the same servers). However, these are still straight installs, not sysprep'ed, using SMS to do an post-build software installation and scripts for configuration.

[Tripredacus]

Currently we install vista using SIM'd Vista install DVDs or with Generalized Sysprepped images captured with Ghost. While we do have a WDS server running, we only use it to image machines that do not work with Ghost. We are supposed to be moving from Ghost to WDS but I have not been alotted the time away from my regular tasks to start the process.

Also, if you are having trouble using Vista with Ghost, you might be doing it wrong. After you get your machine all set up, you need to Sysprep it with the Generalize box checked. Then when you image it, you will keep the HAL-less mode and be able to use that image on any machine. If you don't Generalize it, you are locking Vista into the selected HAL and HDD Controller, and when you deploy it, you'll get a stop error on the first reboot.

[surfertje]

Currently we install vista using SIM'd Vista install DVDs or with Generalized Sysprepped images captured with Ghost. While we do have a WDS server running, we only use it to image machines that do not work with Ghost. We are supposed to be moving from Ghost to WDS but I have not been alotted the time away from my regular tasks to start the process.

Also, if you are having trouble using Vista with Ghost, you might be doing it wrong. After you get your machine all set up, you need to Sysprep it with the Generalize box checked. Then when you image it, you will keep the HAL-less mode and be able to use that image on any machine. If you don't Generalize it, you are locking Vista into the selected HAL and HDD Controller, and when you deploy it, you'll get a stop error on the first reboot.

So, you are suggesting that Ghost 8 / Ghostcastserver may work with Ghost 8? ANd restoring is possible to different hardware?

If this is possible why are many people on the forum using WDS, PXE, WAIK etc for deploying?, that is what i do not understand, because at this moment i am using ghost 8 with windowsxp and restoring it to the same hardware. As soon there is news hardware i must install windows and softare again. But if when i can restore to different hardware then Ghost is my favorite. When i use WDS etc. it is quit much work to set it up and restoring is installing again, takes more time then restoring ghost i think.

What would be the advantage for wds on a server or ghost?

I want to dive in to the deploying stuff because it takes to much of my time to, every time there is a pc with different hardware, install, configure again.

So i gladly would like some advicce in this matter.

[cluberti]

If this is possible why are many people on the forum using WDS, PXE, WAIK etc for deploying?

Because Ghost editions require purchasing the Ghost software + licenses per seat for usage. WDS, WAIK, etc are FREE (you've already bought the server and client licenses, why pay more to use Ghost when you can use something you've already paid for, i.e. WDS). That's likely why.

What would be the advantage for wds on a server or ghost?

I don't know if there's an "advantage" per se in using Ghost over WDS, but WDS is cheaper and is produced / supported by the same company that makes the OS you deploy with it, and can be integrated with things like System Center.

At least in this case, if there's a problem, the vendor (Microsoft) can't blame someone else if things fail, whereas I have gone through the "It's a Symantec problem / It's a Microsoft problem" vendor finger-pointing tapdance before when problems arose with Ghost (it ended up being a Ghost issue, but that's neither here nor there).

[fizban2]

as a replacement for ghost you might want to look at the Microsoft Deploymeny Toolkit. It is free and will work with WDS for you to deploy XP, Vista, 2003 and 2008. you can add applications, scripts, drivers etc to customize your image as nessecary. We use RIS now and are in the process of configuring our 2008 and Vista Images on MDT and SCCM (System Center Configuration Manager) to deploy Applications and post installation modifications

[gotenks98]

I created one of the vistape 2.0 disks with imagex on it. After I install and customize the vista or xp image I run sysprep. Boot up the windows pe 2.0 disk. I map to the server that will keep the images. Use imagex on the drive with the syspreped xp or vista image. Imagex copies it over the network to server. When I need to restore the image I just boot up the pe disk again and deploy it on the drive where I need it to go. It works well enough for me. What I wanted to ask is what is WDS doing extra for you all than just maping to that server or shared space and using imagex on the new pc couldnt do over the network? In other words why use WDS at all?

[Tripredacus]

So, you are suggesting that Ghost 8 / Ghostcastserver may work with Ghost 8? ANd restoring is possible to different hardware?

If this is possible why are many people on the forum using WDS, PXE, WAIK etc for deploying?, that is what i do not understand, because at this moment i am using ghost 8 with windowsxp and restoring it to the same hardware. As soon there is news hardware i must install windows and softare again. But if when i can restore to different hardware then Ghost is my favorite. When i use WDS etc. it is quit much work to set it up and restoring is installing again, takes more time then restoring ghost i think.

What would be the advantage for wds on a server or ghost?

I want to dive in to the deploying stuff because it takes to much of my time to, every time there is a pc with different hardware, install, configure again.

So i gladly would like some advicce in this matter.

Aside from the "free" issue with WDS, etc, the other reason why people would use Ghost is if they (like we are here) in a transition period. Also, Microsoft's recommended process is to use WDS with WAIK or OPK because it is more powerful and more efficient. Plus Microsoft doesn't make Ghost so they typically wouldn't recommend that software anyways.

And you don't have to deploy and capture an image every time you want to make changes to it. Using the PE Tools Command Prompt, you have access to all the commands you get in the WinPE, and you have the ability (like Ghost) to do offline image editing.

But yes, if you use Sysprep with the generalize switch (or button) you can deploy a single Vista image onto multiple hardware schemes. If you don't generalize it, you can only use that image on the same hardware it was captured from.

Typically, you should only be using Ghost until you can do everything with WDS, it is the better solution.

[surfertje]

So, you are suggesting that Ghost 8 / Ghostcastserver may work with Ghost 8? ANd restoring is possible to different hardware?

If this is possible why are many people on the forum using WDS, PXE, WAIK etc for deploying?, that is what i do not understand, because at this moment i am using ghost 8 with windowsxp and restoring it to the same hardware. As soon there is news hardware i must install windows and softare again. But if when i can restore to different hardware then Ghost is my favorite. When i use WDS etc. it is quit much work to set it up and restoring is installing again, takes more time then restoring ghost i think.

What would be the advantage for wds on a server or ghost?

I want to dive in to the deploying stuff because it takes to much of my time to, every time there is a pc with different hardware, install, configure again.

So i gladly would like some advicce in this matter.

Aside from the "free" issue with WDS, etc, the other reason why people would use Ghost is if they (like we are here) in a transition period. Also, Microsoft's recommended process is to use WDS with WAIK or OPK because it is more powerful and more efficient. Plus Microsoft doesn't make Ghost so they typically wouldn't recommend that software anyways.

And you don't have to deploy and capture an image every time you want to make changes to it. Using the PE Tools Command Prompt, you have access to all the commands you get in the WinPE, and you have the ability (like Ghost) to do offline image editing.

But yes, if you use Sysprep with the generalize switch (or button) you can deploy a single Vista image onto multiple hardware schemes. If you don't generalize it, you can only use that image on the same hardware it was captured from.

Typically, you should only be using Ghost until you can do everything with WDS, it is the better solution.

Thanks for your input all. I think am gonna try Ghost 8 for a while until i have set up WDS. I must edit sysprep though because at this moment i cannot restore images to different hardware for windows XP. I have read that in the sysprep.inf that there must be mass storage devices to be added and the HAL must be ACPI on the prepared image. Maybe then i can restore to different hardware. I don't think Dell is goiing to change the mass storage everytime there comes a new model.

Also with Vista i am gonna try Ghost 8 and ghostcast server. But make a new sysprep file with the same options as for windowsxp. What is the generalize option do within sysprep. Must this be chosen when i have made and restore the image to a new pc? Because thats what i am doiing now: restore a ghost 8 image and run sysprep.exe, choosing the above 2 options on the left side and reseal, then winxp restarts and a while later asks for the pcname. Then the logon account appears. This is what i also want for vista but also restoring to different hardware because that is the biggest problem: now a restore is resulting in blue screens or even hang after windows restarts after restoring, i can't even run sysprep.exe because the pc hangs before the logon account appears.

But i gonna dive in to WDS and WAIK etc and then leave ghost for what it is, although it is always a problem with new machine's with mass storage or other new hardware i think.

[surfertje]

I have another quistion though. First i wan't to make use of Ghost 8 and Vista and sysprep. Also want to add mass storage drivers and HAL to sysprep, although like i understand from you guys that this isn't nessecary anymore with Vista when i use the generalise in sysprep?

But at this moment i have a sysprep.inf. After restoring a image to a machine i am logging in to windowsxp or vista. Then i run syprep who does a reseale etc. The machine reboots and everything is ok. When i want to make changes to the image like adding software, drivers etc. this is not hard because i can restore the image and add everything. Then make a new image (sysprep hasn't resealed it yet. After making a new image that becomes the master image.

But when i must restore the image to a machine with new hardware i must first generalise in sysprep. THis means that resealing ust also be done. At that point when i reboot or shutdown the pc, sysprep is gonna do his work. When i make a new image of it and restore that image he is upon boot doiing syprep generalise etc. This is ok but when i want to add drivers, programm's to the image i have a problem? Because like before (like at this moment) i cannot restore the image and adding software because when i restore i is goiing to sysprep at boot.

How can i restore the image and adding software, making a new image that becomes the master image, and then prepare the machine?

[Tripredacus]

I've never had any problems installing software. Drivers on the otherhand can be tricky. Usually video and sound drivers don't stay after a generalize. We don't do many Vista orders so we don't even use a sysprep.inf. And yes you don't need a HAL or Mass Storage Controller specified for Vista, it figures that out for you. For example, I've dropped the image, installed Nero and resealed it again without a problem. Of course after we image it with the generalized image to another machine, when we get the welcome screen we accept the System Builder's license (CTRL+SHIFT+F3) and do not go through the actual sysprep. When the machine is ready then we do a final sysprep but do not generalize it. Then you can set up the machine as you'd like it. I am sure there are way easier or better ways of dealing with Vista and Ghost but we haven't done enough volume to work with it that much. Something like 99% of our customer opt for Downgrade Rights so we install XP on their machines.

Also with XP, there is no generalise option. You want to create your XP image with an ACPI_APIC_UP HAL. This image can only be used on machines that have ACPI enabled, and can work on single and multi-core/CPU machines.

[surfertje]

I've never had any problems installing software. Drivers on the otherhand can be tricky. Usually video and sound drivers don't stay after a generalize. We don't do many Vista orders so we don't even use a sysprep.inf. And yes you don't need a HAL or Mass Storage Controller specified for Vista, it figures that out for you. For example, I've dropped the image, installed Nero and resealed it again without a problem. Of course after we image it with the generalized image to another machine, when we get the welcome screen we accept the System Builder's license (CTRL+SHIFT+F3) and do not go through the actual sysprep. When the machine is ready then we do a final sysprep but do not generalize it. Then you can set up the machine as you'd like it. I am sure there are way easier or better ways of dealing with Vista and Ghost but we haven't done enough volume to work with it that much. Something like 99% of our customer opt for Downgrade Rights so we install XP on their machines.

Also with XP, there is no generalise option. You want to create your XP image with an ACPI_APIC_UP HAL. This image can only be used on machines that have ACPI enabled, and can work on single and multi-core/CPU machines.

I don't exactly understand how you do it now. When do you generalise it exactly? Must i make two images perhaps: one with all software installed and drivers but not in a domain and no sysprep run and the second one i am gonna rollout. WHen there must be software added i use restore the first one and add the software drivers. Then i make a new image wich become the master image for adding software later and make also a new rollout image. When i make the rollout image for deployment i run sysprep with generalise and shutdown. Restoring the second image will goiing to running sysprep at startup where i can give in my computername and domain etc (after creating a xml file off course. Is this a possibility? or can you clarify how and when you run sysprep and generalise?

I have read that there are many problems with the activation also so i must figure that out to.

[cluberti]

I don't exactly understand how you do it now. When do you generalise it exactly? Must i make two images perhaps: one with all software installed and drivers but not in a domain and no sysprep run and the second one i am gonna rollout. WHen there must be software added i use restore the first one and add the software drivers. Then i make a new image wich become the master image for adding software later and make also a new rollout image. When i make the rollout image for deployment i run sysprep with generalise and shutdown. Restoring the second image will goiing to running sysprep at startup where i can give in my computername and domain etc (after creating a xml file off course. Is this a possibility? or can you clarify how and when you run sysprep and generalise?

I have read that there are many problems with the activation also so i must figure that out to.

That's the problem with "imaging" a set piece install - any updates to the base image, and you have to rebuild to accomplish this (well, almost always ). We moved to a flat-file based installation a long time ago, meaning we do NOT preinstall the OS, drivers, or any applications, and our images truly are universal for hardware. Also, because we make all tweaks and installation of any software post-image, changes are far quicker to make (and undo in the event of a negative side-effect). Does this take longer per install to push down? Yes, it does. Does it mean I can simply modify my scripts or SMS packages that install apps or make tweaks and not have to reimage? Yes, and that means I get the same installation every time, just like the image approach, but without the hardware/driver limitations and the requirement to redo the image when I need to change something.

Again, just my .02¢. This was always my recommendation for RIS images, and with WDS+WIM it's no different (more options for the base image, but the same principles apply).

[Tripredacus]

I don't exactly understand how you do it now. When do you generalise it exactly? Must i make two images perhaps: one with all software installed and drivers but not in a domain and no sysprep run and the second one i am gonna rollout. WHen there must be software added i use restore the first one and add the software drivers. Then i make a new image wich become the master image for adding software later and make also a new rollout image. When i make the rollout image for deployment i run sysprep with generalise and shutdown. Restoring the second image will goiing to running sysprep at startup where i can give in my computername and domain etc (after creating a xml file off course. Is this a possibility? or can you clarify how and when you run sysprep and generalise?

I have read that there are many problems with the activation also so i must figure that out to.

That's the problem with "imaging" a set piece install - any updates to the base image, and you have to rebuild to accomplish this (well, almost always ). We moved to a flat-file based installation a long time ago, meaning we do NOT preinstall the OS, drivers, or any applications, and our images truly are universal for hardware. Also, because we make all tweaks and installation of any software post-image, changes are far quicker to make (and undo in the event of a negative side-effect). Does this take longer per install to push down? Yes, it does. Does it mean I can simply modify my scripts or SMS packages that install apps or make tweaks and not have to reimage? Yes, and that means I get the same installation every time, just like the image approach, but without the hardware/driver limitations and the requirement to redo the image when I need to change something.

Again, just my .02¢. This was always my recommendation for RIS images, and with WDS+WIM it's no different (more options for the base image, but the same principles apply).

@cluberti

Yes your method is also viable. Its all about how you want to do it, and as long as it works then its fine to use it. When our accounts manager (the guy who handles who we are a customer of) had our regional Microsoft rep come to visit, he recommended that we follow a set of rules for Vista that pertain to the creation of images with WDS. So while your method is also viable, my company wants me to follow the directive of our Microsoft rep.

@surfertje

Which leads me to you. So you can either do it the way I do, or how cluberti does it, or make up your own way to do it. Here is a basic rundown of how we do Vista with ghost.

1. Install Vista using a DVD that the OPK/SIM creates for us.

2. Install the drivers needed for that system.

3. Install DVD software

4. Check the box for generalize in the Sysprep program and sysprep.

5. When the computer reboots (the default setting for Vista is reboot instead of XP/2003 it was Shut Down) we boot into Ghost. Then upload the image.

Now if we need to add something, for example my original images didn't have DVD software on it, so I had to image a machine, install the software, generalize and sysprep and upload the image again.

Basically, you sysprep with the generalize when you want to upload your image. After we image new machine, we do not step through the sysprep process, we accept the OEM agreement instead. We are also likely using a different version of Vista than you are, since we are an OEM we use Volume License. We put information into the BIOS and that handles the activation process as well. We are not actually allowed to (in most cases) run sysprep ourselves because we are not allowed to accept the End User License agreement.

So I can't really tell you about the process or running sysprep on Vista because I do not actually do it myself. We also do not set up our Vista to automatically join a domain because that information is not ever provided to us by our customers.

[cluberti]

@cluberti

Yes your method is also viable. Its all about how you want to do it, and as long as it works then its fine to use it. When our accounts manager (the guy who handles who we are a customer of) had our regional Microsoft rep come to visit, he recommended that we follow a set of rules for Vista that pertain to the creation of images with WDS. So while your method is also viable, my company wants me to follow the directive of our Microsoft rep.

Normally I wouldn't say this, but in this case I have to - it stinks when management makes technical decisions. I feel a little sorry for you in that your options are artificially limited