Advice on upgrading current components

[Zxian]

Haha... whoops. 1GB wouldn't last me very long today.

The WD GP drives have been very good so far. They provide decent performance while staying whisper quiet. Just a word of warning - if your case resonates due to hard drive vibration, don't mix the WD GP drives with 7200RPM drives in the same system. If you listen VERY carefully to my system, you can make out a 30Hz beat frequency (7200RPM = 120Hz, 5400RPM = 90Hz) caused by the frequency mismatch of the two drives. Then again, I've done all that I can to minimize the noise of my computers. If your fans are louder than your hard drives, I doubt that you'd notice this effect at all.

[Cee-Kay]

Just a word of warning - if your case resonates due to hard drive vibration, don't mix the WD GP drives with 7200RPM drives in the same system.

Actually, I was considering either of the two WD GP drives for a DIY or off the shelf NAS. This was the reason for this thread -- I was considering using the components already owned with the other components I listed in order to build a DIY NAS.

However, I know I wouldn't be able to match the form factor or the power savings (and perhaps even the performance) compared to a retail version.

[puntoMX]

Just a word of warning - if your case resonates due to hard drive vibration, don't mix the WD GP drives with 7200RPM drives in the same system.

Actually, I was considering either of the two WD GP drives for a DIY or off the shelf NAS. This was the reason for this thread -- I was considering using the components already owned with the other components I listed in order to build a DIY NAS.

However, I know I wouldn't be able to match the form factor or the power savings (and perhaps even the performance) compared to a retail version.

There are nice NAS housings that do there work well, so no need to buy a retail version at all. DIY is the way to go here .

[Cee-Kay]

There are nice NAS housings that do there work well, so no need to buy a retail version at all. DIY is the way to go here .

Is there any particular makes/models you had in mind? Also am I right in assuming that there mainly designed for micro-ATX motherboards? Edited April 12, 2008 by Cee-Kay

[nmX.Memnoch]

It's quite pricey but there's a product called Drobo that does it's own "RAID" calculations. It's not really a RAID, per se, but they have their own algorithm they use to provide data redundancy. And the drive sizes don't have to match...all you need are standard SATA drives to plug into the thing. I have two of them at work, one with 4x250GB drives and one with 4x1TB WD GP drives. They work very well and do their own thing with regards to getting around the 2TB parition limit. And I have to say that even though it's only a USB 2.0 link, they're still quite speedy.

Now, if you looked at the link before you got this far in the post you're saying "but that's not a NAS!". You're right...by itself it isn't. But they've just introduced the DroboShare that turns it into a NAS. And you can attach up to two Drobo's to a single DroboShare.

Again, it's a pricey solution but to have something that automatically configures data redundancy for you is well worth the slight cost overhead. The other nice thing is that you can upgrade the drives while it's online. Just replace each drive one at a time allowing enough time between each drive for it to rebuild the data parity (this will depend on how much data you have). Watch the video to see it in action.

[puntoMX]

There is another solution too, this time from Intel; Entry Storage System SS4000-E.

Still these systems will be around 350€ (without the drives), so you could consider a cheaper system based on a normal uATX case from Coolermaster and Celeron 420*/1GB RAM/G31 or G/Q33 chipset with ICR9R. A Samba Server would run great on it, so you can keep the price down.

*The 420 uses EIST and can be undervolted easily by using the appropriate motherboard.

[nmX.Memnoch]

I completely forgot about the Intel SS4000. They're supposed to be really nice as well. The only word of warning is that the SS4000 supports "up to 2TB). The Drobo supports larger capacities.

Edited April 13, 2008 by nmX.Memnoch

[Cee-Kay]

It's quite pricey but there's a product called Drobo that does it's own "RAID" calculations.

Thanks for the link, I had heard of the Drobo, but in fairness I assumed it was a standard BYOD NAS.

It's not really a RAID, per se, but they have their own algorithm they use to provide data redundancy.

I take it, it's similar to the 'data redundancy' that WHS provides? i.e. it's not technically RAID, but uses a form of parity in order to protect the data?

They work very well and do their own thing with regards to getting around the 2TB parition limit.

I'm glad you mentioned that. Until I read a little bit more about the Drobo, I never realised there was a 2 TB limit over USB (apparently because it's based on the SCSI command set?). I suppose when they designed the USB spec, they obviously didn't think we would reach that kind of limit any time soon. I suppose most home users won't require 1 TB yet anyway, let alone 2 TB.

I am correct in assuming that if you installed 4x 1 TB HDDs into the Drobo then it would appear as two separate drive letters (e.g. Y:\ and Z:\) with a 'capacity' of 2 TBs each?

It's a pricey solution but to have something that automatically configures data redundancy for you is well worth the slight cost overhead. The other nice thing is that you can upgrade the drives while it's online. Just replace each drive one at a time allowing enough time between each drive for it to rebuild the data parity[/snip]Watch the video to see it in action.

I did watch the video, the guy didn't seem to leave that much time before removing each of the drives!? I know hot-swap compatibility is part of the SATA spec, but don't you have to let the drive spin down first?

I did do a quick search for prices for the Drobo, and the cheapest price I could find was €355 (excluding drives and the DroboShare -- an extra €180) so it does work out some what pricey (for me anyway) I do however appreciate the suggestion.

There is another solution too, this time from Intel; Entry Storage System SS4000-E.

I never realised Intel done NASes. Reminds me of the Acer Altos EasyStore (came pre-installed with 4x 500 GB, if I remember correctly) I saw not that long ago at a local Mediamarkt, although they did want around €1000 for it!

I completely forgot about the Intel SS4000. They're supposed to be really nice as well. The only word of warning is that the SS4000 supports "up to 2TB).

I downloaded the release notes for the latest firmware version (v1.4) which apparently adds among other things the following new features...

Supports disk drives greater than 500GB...

Storage Capacity Greater Than 2 TeraBytes

Firmware revision 1.4 adds support for NAS (Network Attached Storage) storage capacity greater than 2 TeraBytes (TB). Capacity in your storage system is divided into partitions, including one for a shared public folder, one for user home folders and one for backups

I take it these kinds of NASes are more geared towards the storage/support of home folders (i.e. an enterprise/company environment), which in all fairness is something I don't really need. I would personally find a NAS more useful to me if it makes available the total amount of storage installed (minus the parity, overhead and the OS etc) leaving the user to split up the available space depending on their requirements (i.e. folders or perhaps partitions).

This is when I stumbled upon some Synology units for sale on eBay. The Synology DS207+ interested me the most, particularly since it was around the €230 mark (excluding the drives) although the seller did offer a deal on specific HDDs if purchased at the same time (I think one was the non-RAID WD GP). What do you guys think? I don't think the lack of 'hot swap' would necessarily be a deal killer.

[nmX.Memnoch]

It's not really a RAID, per se, but they have their own algorithm they use to provide data redundancy.

I take it, it's similar to the 'data redundancy' that WHS provides? i.e. it's not technically RAID, but uses a form of parity in order to protect the data?

Yeah, it's along those same lines. As an example, I have a Drobo attached to the workstation I'm on now with 4 x 250GB drives in it. The utility tells you how the drives are being used:

Drives: 250.05GB + 250.05GB + 250.05GB + 250.05GB = 1.00TB (931.54 GB actual*)

Available for data 694.29 GB

Reserved for expansion 0B

Used for protection 235.01GB

Overhead 2.23 GB

I don't have any "Reserved for expansion" because all of my drives are the same size so in a sense it's using a "RAID5" type algorithm right now. If one of them were, say, a 500GB drive then I would have ~250GB reserved for expansion.

They work very well and do their own thing with regards to getting around the 2TB parition limit.

I'm glad you mentioned that. Until I read a little bit more about the Drobo, I never realised there was a 2 TB limit over USB (apparently because it's based on the SCSI command set?). I suppose when they designed the USB spec, they obviously didn't think we would reach that kind of limit any time soon. I suppose most home users won't require 1 TB yet anyway, let alone 2 TB.

Yeah, I wasn't aware of the 2TB over USB limit either until I got the Drobo's we have.

I am correct in assuming that if you installed 4x 1 TB HDDs into the Drobo then it would appear as two separate drive letters (e.g. Y:\ and Z:\) with a 'capacity' of 2 TBs each?

Yes, you are correct. I still haven't figured out exactly how they "share" the space though. We do have another one that has 4 x 1TB drives but we aren't anywhere close to filling it up.

I did watch the video, the guy didn't seem to leave that much time before removing each of the drives!? I know hot-swap compatibility is part of the SATA spec, but don't you have to let the drive spin down first?

That video is heavily time lapsed. Watch how quickly it moves through 300 while he's doing the demonstration.

I did do a quick search for prices for the Drobo, and the cheapest price I could find was €355 (excluding drives and the DroboShare -- an extra €180) so it does work out some what pricey (for me anyway) I do however appreciate the suggestion.

I warned you it was expensive.

I completely forgot about the Intel SS4000. They're supposed to be really nice as well. The only word of warning is that the SS4000 supports "up to 2TB).

I downloaded the release notes for the latest firmware version (v1.4) which apparently adds among other things the following new features...

Supports disk drives greater than 500GB...

Storage Capacity Greater Than 2 TeraBytes

That's good to know. More and more hardware manufacturers are finally starting to put support for more than 2TB in their devices now.

This is when I stumbled upon some Synology units for sale on eBay. The Synology DS207+ interested me the most, particularly since it was around the €230 mark (excluding the drives) although the seller did offer a deal on specific HDDs if purchased at the same time (I think one was the non-RAID WD GP). What do you guys think? I don't think the lack of 'hot swap' would necessarily be a deal killer.

If you're going to put any money in a good NAS device you might as well get one that supports hot swap. If this is for home then it may not be such a big deal, but in a corporate environment downtime to replace a failed drive is unnecessary downtime IMO.

[Cee-Kay]

Yeah, I wasn't aware of the 2TB over USB limit either until I got the Drobo's we have.

Is the Drobo slow over a USB2 connection?

That video is heavily time lapsed. Watch how quickly it moves through 300 while he's doing the demonstration.

I thought the video of 300 was perhaps an Apple Quicktime trailer? I did think there was something a bit odd with the video though, did you also notice that quite a lot of time is spend away from the screen? The other thing I found a little bit suspicious was the two 'folders' that have been purposefully resized with no address bar!

Also the pie chart on the screen, is that part of the Drobo's 'monitoring' software (or just for show?)

I warned you it was expensive.

There does seem to be a bit of a niche market surrounding this device, somewhat similar to what I call the 'Apple' effect

If you're going to put any money in a good NAS device you might as well get one that supports hot swap. If this is for home then it may not be such a big deal, but in a corporate environment downtime to replace a failed drive is unnecessary downtime IMO.

I totally understand for a corporate environment downtime is a big no, no, but for me because I would use the NAS mostly for private home use I would probably put this lower down my list of priorities (especially if it makes a huge impact on the cost!)

[puntoMX]

That video is heavily time lapsed. Watch how quickly it moves through 300 while he's doing the demonstration.

I thought the video of 300 was perhaps an Apple Quicktime trailer? I did think there was something a bit odd with the video though, did you also notice that quite a lot of time is spend away from the screen? The other thing I found a little bit suspicious was the two 'folders' that have been purposefully resized with no address bar!

I thought that they used small drives or so, let me see that video again as it´s months now that I didn’t see it (could be half a year or more).

[nmX.Memnoch]

Yeah, I wasn't aware of the 2TB over USB limit either until I got the Drobo's we have.

Is the Drobo slow over a USB2 connection?

You would think but it's actually rather quick. I was initially worried about the USB2 connection but after having using it for about a month or so that's no longer a concern.

That video is heavily time lapsed. Watch how quickly it moves through 300 while he's doing the demonstration.

I thought the video of 300 was perhaps an Apple Quicktime trailer? I did think there was something a bit odd with the video though, did you also notice that quite a lot of time is spend away from the screen? The other thing I found a little bit suspicious was the two 'folders' that have been purposefully resized with no address bar!

No, it's the full movie. Again, it's just heavily time lapsed. It's even time lapsed on the file copies. And yes, punto is right...he did use small drives so that it filled up quicker.

Also the pie chart on the screen, is that part of the Drobo's 'monitoring' software (or just for show?)

That's actually the way the Dashboard looks so it's not just for show. Since the Drobo makes the drive appear to be 2TB to the system, the Dashboard is the only accurate way to check your actual usage.

I warned you it was expensive.

There does seem to be a bit of a niche market surrounding this device, somewhat similar to what I call the 'Apple' effect

Well, I'm sure quite a bit of engineering went into the product to make everything automatic. It's quite literally one of the best examples of "plug and play".

[Cee-Kay]

Well, I'm sure quite a bit of engineering went into the product to make everything automatic. It's quite literally one of the best examples of "plug and play".

That's what I meant when I referred to it as the Apple effect, a device which is a little bit out of the ordinary (sometimes, but not always with an inflated price).

Anyway I'm gonna keep an eye out for other options available (perhaps DAS) or stick with a DIY NAS/retail NAS solution, either way it looks like I've got some saving up to do!

[Cee-Kay]

[Posted in a new thread]

Edited June 27, 2009 by Cee-Kay