upgrading from 98 to 98SE

[herbalist]

My old HP came with 98 first edition. The system recovery CD installs several other apps in addition to windows, some of which I use. I'd like to upgrade the OS to 98SE, but I'd like to be able to keep or install some of the additional apps on the HP disk as well. The HP disk uses something they called cloaker. Is there a way to use a standard 98SE CD to upgrade the OS without losing the other applications? Is there any way PC Magazine's Change of Address utility could be used for this?

I'll be using the original HP hardware with a few upgrades but the OEM disk still accepts it as the correct system.

The only idea I can think of is starting over with the HP 98FE disk, removing all the apps I'd want to add to 98SE, re-install them while recording the install process with Inctrl5, then manually copying all the files and registry entries over to the 98SE box and register Dlls manually.

Is there anything similar to the 98SE2ME download? I've heard of a 98 to 98SE disk MS sold at one time, but have no idea where to get it or if it would let me keep the additional apps from the HP disk.

TIA

Rick

Edited July 12, 2007 by herbalist

[awergh]

well you can use the 98se disk to upgrade the 98fe installation by running the setup in windows. i havent ever tried an upgrade so i cant tell you what happens but you can do this

[herbalist]

Running the CD in windows doesn't work. Tried several times, the last with the external drive disconnected and everything not essential shut down. Same error message.

When I ran setup from DOS, the message said I couldn't use this disk with an existing OS and that I needed an upgrade disk. Anyone have a copy of that disk for sale?

Any plans here to make a 98-2-98SE upgrade download that works like the 98SE2ME upgrade?

Rick

[marxo]

Try reading this, might help: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/250683

[soporific]

Running the CD in windows doesn't work. Tried several times, the last with the external drive disconnected

Any plans here to make a 98-2-98SE upgrade download that works like the 98SE2ME upgrade?

The reason it will never happen (assuming we don't overthrow capitalism anytime soon) is because the Win98SE files that are different to Win98FE still have the copyright bullcrap associated with them and so it would be breaking the law by offering to upgrade someone's FE to SE. You can only break the law if you have a military at your disposal that consumes around $500 billion a year. Whose going to stop you then?

[herbalist]

Soporific,

If a person owns both the 98FE and 98SE disks, what makes this situation different than the 98SE2ME upgrade for those who own both of those? Seems to me it's the same legal situation as it would be if upgrading from 98SE to ME.

Marxo,

Thanks for the link.

From the link you supplied:

CAUSE

This error message indicates an error reading the hard disk (a locked disk). You may be running antivirus software or a disk utility that does not allow write access to the hard disk.

I shut down everything that wasn't part of Windows. Not using an AV. I have 2 internal drives plus an external. The external drive was shut off. The other internal is a separate OS. If something is locking the hard drive, I'm at a loss what it might be. Any ideas?

Rick

[soporific]

Soporific,

If a person owns both the 98FE and 98SE disks, what makes this situation different than the 98SE2ME upgrade for those who own both of those? Seems to me it's the same legal situation as it would be if upgrading from 98SE to ME.

Good point, hadn't thought of that. So what you're saying is that "wouldn't it be good if someone created a program that allowed an upgrade from FE to SE if the person owns both OEM disks but NOT an upgrade disk."

That makes it more clear what you are asking ..

[herbalist]

That's what I had in mind. If I can find a way to copy a couple of the other apps on the HP 98FE disk to a 98SE install, that would work as well. There's several items I'd like to update but can't go any farther on 98FE.

Rick

[Atmosphere XG]

My old HP came with 98 first edition. The system recovery CD installs several other apps in addition to windows, some of which I use. I'd like to upgrade the OS to 98SE, but I'd like to be able to keep or install some of the additional apps on the HP disk as well. The HP disk uses something they called cloaker. Is there a way to use a standard 98SE CD to upgrade the OS without losing the other applications? Is there any way PC Magazine's Change of Address utility could be used for this?

I'll be using the original HP hardware with a few upgrades but the OEM disk still accepts it as the correct system.

The only idea I can think of is starting over with the HP 98FE disk, removing all the apps I'd want to add to 98SE, re-install them while recording the install process with Inctrl5, then manually copying all the files and registry entries over to the 98SE box and register Dlls manually.

Is there anything similar to the 98SE2ME download? I've heard of a 98 to 98SE disk MS sold at one time, but have no idea where to get it or if it would let me keep the additional apps from the HP disk.

TIA

Rick

You need the Windows 98 SE Upgrade CD for Windows 98 FE. If you try to upgrade a Windows 98 SE disk that is not upgradable it won't work.

Go to Ebay and search for a Windows 98 SE Upgrade Disk.

I actually used Windows 98 FE for 8 years before moving to Windows 2000. So this is coming from an Windows 98 FE veteran.

The problem Microsoft made was calling Windows 98 SE and not Windows 99 or whatever. They (Windows 98 FE & 98 SE) are totally different which is why you need the upgrade Windows 98 SE disk for Windows 98 FE. IMHO the Windows 98 SE upgrade CD is more of a Service Pack for Windows 98 FE for, it cannot be used to do a fresh install like the Windows 98 SE non upgradable CD.

Edited July 13, 2007 by Atmosphere XG

[herbalist]

I've managed to find a couple of upgrade disks for 3.1/95 to 98SE at ebay but no 98 to 98SE upgrade disks. Even if they'd work, I'll still have to open both ebay and pay pal accounts to get one, then wait at least a week for the bidding to close and for them to ship it. I'll pass on ebay.

I installed 98SE on another hard drive and swapped out the drive with my 98FE finished system, mainly to see if it solves the compatibility and upgrade limitations. Even as a clean install with very little other software added, it seems very sluggish. My original 98FE system runs circles around it with 25 running processes vs 14 on SE. Is SE that much more demanding on the hardware than FE was? The SE install regularly puts the processor at 100% for several seconds at a time, something my original setup only does when launching a new app, then for much less time. This is a low power system, 366mhz, 160mb RAM with little room for improvement. The MB can't handle a processor faster than 550mhz. I realize that this probably not a fair comparison as my FE box has years of optimizing and upgrading on it, but it doesn't seem right that it should be twice as fast as a fresh 98SE install. The 2 are comparable on things like download speeds, but it feels like I've gone back to dialup the way web pages load. The bootup time is almost doubled. Apps take forever to launch in comparison. If I can't get the SE install to run closer to the speed my FE system does, I won't upgrade. Too much of a performance loss just to use a few new apps.

Rick

[gosh]

I didnt read anything in this thread, but ill say this. You can upgrade from win98 original to win98se without any problems. 98se originally was just going to be a service pack anyway, not a whole new os. when 98se came out for the first year you could buy a 98se upgrade cd for only $20 that only upgraded 98 to 98se. the cab files for 98se retail and oem are exactly the same - the only thing different is the setup.exe file. so if you had the win98se .cab files, you could simply find a setup.exe for the retail and use a retail cd and it'll install fine. you dont need the full version to upgrade 98 to 98se, however you cant use an oem cd because by design, oem cd's are only used for clean installs. i believe you can bypass that with a hidden switch for setup.exe. look around and youll find what i mean...

-gosh

[herbalist]

The original 98FE system was installed by the HP recovery disk, which also contains a bunch of other stuff. The 98SE disk is a standard new system install disk, not an HP disk.

Prior to trying the 98SE setup again, I shut down the external drive and removed the 2nd internal drive. I used a selective start and disabled all the startup items. This is all that was running, minus Process Explorer.

Still getting the same error message. The hard drive is the original for this box and isn't partitioned. There's nothing else on it except for windows and my installed apps.

Rick

[Atmosphere XG]

I've managed to find a couple of upgrade disks for 3.1/95 to 98SE at ebay but no 98 to 98SE upgrade disks. Even if they'd work, I'll still have to open both ebay and pay pal accounts to get one, then wait at least a week for the bidding to close and for them to ship it. I'll pass on ebay.

Well, it's obvious you don't need it. You just want it.

I installed 98SE on another hard drive and swapped out the drive with my 98FE finished system, mainly to see if it solves the compatibility and upgrade limitations. Even as a clean install with very little other software added, it seems very sluggish. My original 98FE system runs circles around it with 25 running processes vs 14 on SE. Is SE that much more demanding on the hardware than FE was?

98 SE is definitely slower in terms or responsiveness than 98 FE. That's one of the reasons I went to Windows 2000 instead of 98 SE. While Windows 2000 is not as fast as Windows 98 FE, it offers better memory management than Windows 98 SE.

The SE install regularly puts the processor at 100% for several seconds at a time, something my original setup only does when launching a new app, then for much less time. This is a low power system, 366mhz, 160mb RAM with little room for improvement. The MB can't handle a processor faster than 550mhz.

I had the same issue (100 % CPU usage on idle) on one of my PCs with 98 SE. I believe it was a bug that can be remedied.

You might want to jump in the registry to speed things up in 98 SE. However, using a 395 MHZ computer myself for the internet, Windows 98 SE ran slower than 98 FE overall. So, I can only imagine on 366 MHZ.

I realize that this probably not a fair comparison as my FE box has years of optimizing and upgrading on it, but it doesn't seem right that it should be twice as fast as a fresh 98SE install. The 2 are comparable on things like download speeds, but it feels like I've gone back to dialup the way web pages load. The bootup time is almost doubled. Apps take forever to launch in comparison. If I can't get the SE install to run closer to the speed my FE system does, I won't upgrade. Too much of a performance loss just to use a few new apps.

Rick

It's your computer. I know the feeling. However, I refuse to put my stronger PCs on the internet for they are used for Audio processing/editing. For my internet usage this computer is more than enough.

I would suggest you go back to 98 FE, add more RAM and tweak it till it can't be tweaked anymore. BTW, when I was on Windows 98 FE I was only using 6 Processes not 25. Even on Windows 2000, and XP Home, I'm using a maximum of 12 proccesses. I maxed out my motherboard's RAM capacity (384) and it made a world of a difference.

You may want to reconsider registering to Ebay for it is a haven for old computer parts at dirt cheap prices. Registering is free, and you don't have to use PayPal. I've been buying on Ebay since late 1999, and only pay by money orders.

[herbalist]

I don't actually "need" to do this as an upgrade. 98FE is going to remain my primary OS for a while. I'd have to double check to be sure, but I believe 256MB is the limit for RAM on this hardware. The BIOS is my big limiter. I reflashed it once with an update from HPs support site. The performance improved quite a bit but it still limits me to small hard drives, 8GB or less. As for software upgrading and tweaking, there isn't that much more I can do to it. Been doing that for years. Other than the hard drive limitations, my only issues are compatibility problems, apps and drivers that won't work on 98FE. Performance hasn't been an issue. It runs faster than its specs would suggest and I couldn't ask for better stability.

I'll probably get better results if I start with a clean install of SE and leave the existing 98FE system intact. If I can't move or copy those specific apps from my existing system to the SE install, I can always look for alternatives. For that matter, I can go back to having both 98 and 98SE in the same box on separate HDs and switch which one I boot from at the BIOS.

It's your computer. I know the feeling. However, I refuse to put my stronger PCs on the internet for they are used for Audio processing/editing. For my internet usage this computer is more than enough.

I wish I had such an option. 2 or 3 more PCs would be sweet, if they were a bit more powerful than what I have. At present, this old relic serves as my primary PC and test boxes, depending on which hard drive or image I install at the time. It would be so much easier.

Rick

[submix8c]

Old HP? Must be if BIOS limit is still 8GB HDD even after flash (boo!). Looks like the attempt to access an external drive croaked due to fact that the necessary drivers to access it were not available upun entry to Setup (a USB drive?). There are DOS-based USB drivers available somewhere (I can't remember where...) that could be loaded somehow(?).

100% CPU Utilization is undoubtedly a result of a fix needed for your particular HP. I seem to recollect something about that. Look into "AutoPatcher 98SE"/"Unattended Boot CD For 98SE" (soporific's babies) to see if it is corrected...

The key factor/module that segregates Retail vs OEM vs Upgrade vs MSDN vs Select vs Update (yes, Upgrade and Update are different beasts; Update is a StepUp-Only) is SETUPX.DLL, not SETUP.EXE. I can't/won't tell you how to get around this (sorry...), but you can find out on your own elsewhere.

Disclaimer - This post is merely informative in nature and not a suggestion for w@r3z.

HTH. Have a nice day.