awkduck

Officially, NT4 stands little chance. If one is willing to put in the work, it looks like you can do it. I haven't done it, but was tempted. I noticed FAT32, USB2.0 mass storage, and an HDA audio driver (also provides for many other chips). BEARWINDOWS has a good write up, on it all. It is one of those things I might try, if I was really bored. I believe Kqemu (for older Qemu) works with NT4. That has lured me a little; just as a pure play thing. I feel my thread hijacking habit creeping in.

I've read 2k was rock solid. And NT looks tempting, as a challenge on newer machines.

The USB device is a Behringer Xenyx Q502USB. But I've also been testing with some generic USB audio device. This issue is resolved. I use WDM on 98FE pretty often. I've read the Microsoft documentation, on the limitations. But I do have to wonder if having updated files allows extra functionality. The author of ASIO4ALL says his software (ver 2.14) will not work with Win98FE. However, it works fine for me. ASIO4ALL will only work with WDM. Either he has misunderstood the state of WDM drivers, in Win98FE, or some O.S. updates and/or 3rd Party add-on allow me to use it, when I shouldn't be able to. I'm not doing anything professional/commercial. This is for artistic entertainment. I am now able to use Guitar Rig 2, with 10ms of latency (Steinberg DXASIO); less with ASIO4ALL. Guitar Rig 2 is also not meant to run on Win9x. I've ran these programs, with Linux Wine, for years. But I am squeezing more out of the machine, running with Win98. I also have way less latency, with my MIDI devices (Win98). I have a MIDI sound module with an extended audio bank and a MIDI keyboard. Using my old Cakewalk is far more "enjoyable" then the modern software. And 98 does a much better job of staying out of the way. But Linux wasn't too bad, in this instance. There is equipment compatible, with Win98, that would allow me higher sample rates and bits. But the 16bit/48000kHz limit is plenty for me. Sounds no worse then the digital compact discs, I grew up with. If I needed better, I'd go back to using the same software/hardware on Linux Wine. Or use Win98 on a desktop with quality audio card. But, to the meat of the USB issue.... It came down to the state of the USB port itself. When I tested an earlier backed up version, of my install, everything worked fine (USB audio). But that install was still on a physical SDHC2IDE device. So booting happened over IDE. A little comparison, between the two installs, showed nothing obviously different. This machine normally runs with no harddrive in it. It boots from USB, and loads a drive image (Win98FE) to memory. All of the programs, besides some essential utilities, are saved as portable apps on the USB device. An issue I originally had, was that Windows would boot and Hang. This was fixed by using Grub2 and loading Grub2's booting drivers. This worked great, until now (USB audio). The temporary fix, is not using Grub2's booting drivers. Then when Windows boots to the Dos prompt, as I do with every install, I disconnect the USB storage device. Then loading Windows does not hang, and I can reinsert the USB storage device. After this point, USB audio works just as it should. This machine has had plenty of strange issues, with USB. I don't have any of these problems, with a Wyse Cx0. I bring a little pain on myself, by running with a USB booted Live Windows. But for me, the benefits are worth it. For now, I will have two boot menu entries. One with Grub2 booting drivers, and one without. The only time I really need the low audio latency, is with live audio recording. It will be a pain removing and reinserting the USB storage device, every time I boot with the intent to do live audio. But I can live with it for now. If I find a better fix, I will post it. But I don't know how much I'll look into it. This gets me going. I did learn that the WDM drivers, for AC97, have problems other WDM drivers do not. But it only seems DirectX related. Using the USB WDM driver does not have issues with DX9 at all. No crashes with applications using DX audio plugins. Other sound cards, with WDM drivers, have also worked fine. And I wonder if other AC97 chips would be okay. I've only had the DirectX issue with the two I've worked with. Anyway, thank you for coming with aid and advice :)

Thanks. Knew something was missing. I remember changing "just" the active partition, to dual boot (no boot loader). Think I just used a bootable Dos floppy, with FDISK. It was not an efficient dual boot; but it lasted long enough to decide I wanted nothing to do with XP. XP was the last Windows I used, before switching to Linux (2003); and I only used XP a short while. Never really used 2k or NT3/4. After about 20 years of Linux, I'm using 98 again.

There are many ways to do this. The difficulty is picking one that fits all your needs. You might look into Grub4Dos. It is very versatile. You can research using XP's "boot.ini". The first issue, I see, is not borking your XP MBR. It loads the XP NTLDR. If you install Windows 98, the MBR will change. It isn't hard to overcome this. But it depends on what you want. The way that involves the least learning, is installing 98 first, then XP. XP setup will detect 98, and boot.ini can be configured to load 98 "via a menu" instead of XP. I've never done it that way. I assume it is straight forward, but I have no clue. You can look into the different boot loaders, of which Grub4Dos is one. Some are more automated then others, and each has it's own options. Some may not support NTFS. You might pick a boot loader, to research, then investigate how to install and boot both version of Windows with it.

Those annoying bad drive letters. No matter how hard you try not to, you'll still click them. Especially if they are the ones that fudge your system stability.

I'd be a little less annoyed by it, if I spent enough time to resolve the USB2.0 conflict that it comes with. Works well "enough" with Windows 95. Same issue with the Snap driver (also SciTech).

@MrMateczko I back-up my installs, as they develop. Testing an earlier install, USB worked fine. Wondering if clearing out "Windows\Options\Cabs" caused something incorrect to get copied, during the USB audio device installation? @ABCDEFG I can't remember which chip it is, off hand. From what I can tell, this isn't an ideal audio device. The "WDM" drivers install with DirectSound support (crashes applications using DX audio plugins). But the "VxD" drivers install as emulated. [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Class\MEDIA\0010\DirectSound\Device Presence] "Emulated"=dword:00000001 "VxD"=dword:00000001 "WDM"=dword:00000001 Correcting the "WDM", and changing the "Emulated", values has makes no difference. This has been the case since the fresh installation. But, I may have fallen in to some luck. The "WDM" USB audio driver does not cause crashes (with applications using DX audio plugins). The USB audio does work with ASIO4ALL. ASIO4ALL ver 2.14 works with Win98FE, despite the authors claim otherwise. But this install does have updated files. It is just as well, that the VxD driver is DX emulated, I've never used Steinbergs DXASIO. I have no idea if it would have shortened audio latency enough. I'll probably investigate, to see if I can repair my current installs USB issue (knowledge gained). But I may have to bring the back-up install up-to-date. It isn't the worst task, since it is a basic USB memory image. All applications are installed portable (off image). So, AC97 "WDM" drivers may be problematic. This is the second chip that has caused issues, with DX audio plugins. Perhaps I am lucky the "VxD" driver is emulated; else it might have caused issues too. Who knows? I've been thinking about looking into PCMCIA cards. But if I got too serious, I'd just be using a Desktop. Thank you, I am glad for the communities input.

Yes. It only happens when exiting "Safe Mode". There is no USB/Audio in safe mode.

Rebooting Windows, from safe mode, I am prompted with the "Wait, End Task, Cancel" window. The title is "Multimedia Input Serivce". In "Process Explorer" I see nothing running, except the bare safe mode minimum. No applications/services initiated, from start-up/registry.

@deomsh I remember doing it for machines that were all the same, years ago (schools/business). But I haven't done it in a long time. I think everything needed to be in your Win98 setup folder's root. But I'm not sure how you controlled installation order, which may be required in some situations. I think there was a way. I have read about slipstream tools. But I've never used them. I couldn't find it, with a brief search, but there was a thread involving the "Unofficial Service Pack" (PROBLEMCHYLD) and USB only machines. I seem to remember something there correlated to "post install" USB driver tricks. The service pack was causing the common "Click Next How?" issue, with updated USB drivers. Maybe it has relevant information for someone. Surprised there isn't a "How to" thread on this, already.

When I use Rloew's "64bit File System API" I get a similar error. This isn't really a suggested work around, more informational, but I just don't use Explorer. With an alternative shell "like Losi or Blackbox" and Explorer "like 2xExplorer" I can get along just fine. It is actually my preference, even without the error. In this case, it might be good to rename Explorer.exe to Explorer.bak, and create a Explorer.exe.lnk to 2xExplorer.exe. Some people have altered the installation, to included the USB drivers. The process is then automated. You add your USB files to the Windows 98 installation setup folder. The process is the same for any other driver, you want included during setup. I just haven't done it in a long time. I've done it, post install. Depending on the circumstances it is almost trivial, for somewhat experienced users. But I recommend taking the high road. If you only have USB3, then it does not matter. With USB2 support you can also use most USB audio devices, for default sound. Anyway, good luck and congratulations, with your audio success.

Anyone have problems with "EXTREMELY" choppy USB audio. If you click on the tray speaker/volume slider, small parts of the audio adjustment alert space out and play for a really long time. I'm going to take the install, and test it on a different machine (one proven to work with Win98 USB audio); just in case it got broken. Then if the problem persists, I know its not a hardware issue. Edit: As feared, it is not a hardware issue. If I can detect the cause, I'll post it. Wondered if it had to do with trying to use the USB WDM driver, at the same time as the AC97 VXD driver. But after replacing the AC97 VXD, with a WDM driver, the problem was still there. Are there Win98 VXD drivers for AC'97 cards? Especially, when you get to the 2005-2008 machines. I know there are for Win95. Edit:For AC97, it seems that most likely they, the existing VXD drivers, are for Win95; usable on Windows 98 The following happens on multiple machines. Anyone experience this? I've had issues change from a VXD driver to WDM. Suddenly, programs that use "DX audio FX" crash on load (Example, SoundForge 5). Cakewalk 9 (no DX FX) needed to be downgraded to ver 7 on one machine, and 5 on another, or it would also crash. Dxdiag does not even work, unless I also downgrade to DX7. I might be able to stick with the VXD driver, but Steinberg DX-ASIO does not work with drivers in DX emulated mode. But I'm having suspicions that is isn't supposed to be in emulated mode (full DX support). The WDM driver isn't in emulated mode, and works with ASIO4ALL anyway; but the programs with low latency demands are crashing. Other then really bad "live" latency (best 156ms) the VXD driver works great. I know there may not be a lot of Audio/Music people here, but I thought I'd ask just in case.

@jaclaz No, "Super Grub 2 Disk" is the one I was thinking of. Its just been awhile, since I've looked at it. But now that I'm a little refreshed on it, it looks like one could examine it and maybe gain some Grub2 knowledge. This Github folder has many CFG files. Some of it is well commented. Even with all of that, it is still no Grub4dos. I see they have "disable_gfxterm=true"; so theme support would need to be learned elsewhere. [Some video cards cannot load Windows 9x (some NT versions too) graphics, after Grub2's extended graphics mode are loaded.] [An old bug, that was never addressed. The basic Grub2 video mode is fine.] loadfont /boot/grub/unicode.pf2 insmod all_video insmod vbe insmod gfxterm set gfxmode=1023x768x32 terminal_output gfxterm insmod png set theme=/boot/grub/themes/sometheme/theme.txt And if a guy wants explore the grub terminal, "set pager=1" is a must. There is no pause or scroll back, when listing more then fits in a screen. Pager is kinda like "MORE" or "DIR /P". I like that you can mount and boot an ISO/Harddisk IMG (Grub2). But if your not booting Linux, it would need extra help.

I should probably write something up. I've been meaning to. I only use the file that you are never supposed to edit. I never use Grub2 via Linux (install/configure). I've only compiled it on Linux. I don't know why they don't publish documentation, on using GRUB.CFG. I suppose because it is designed against that. But the syntax seems simple enough, once you actually know what it is. The boot core can be built per your needs, which is neat. Having everything managed by the system, aside from a 2nd config file (using almost completely different syntax), seems to be the kinda thing that made people really dislike systemd. There is a fork of Grub2 "Supergrub2". But I haven't looked into it. I think they moved it away from Linux isolation. Development may have ended.

Grub2 will eventually develop beyond usefulness, for the more minority use cases.

I'm guessing you have over 512Mb/1Gb of ram? Rloew is no longer with us, but he created a memory patch. You could revert your SYSTEM.* files, and try the patch. Your runtime error could be the audio driver. Someone else was getting a similar error. If it is the audio driver, you could use USB audio.

In general/normal use case scenarios, I' have to completely agree with you. Grub2 seems limited, in some important ways. At least in ways that matter to me. However, time and time again, I run into odd machines that will not work "completely" with Syslinux or Grub4dos. USB booting (stuck at USB1.1 speeds or no USB boot at all), strange hardware initializing timings, and legacy USB mouse/keyboard not properly releasing. I've had one machine that would not boot from USB using Grub4dos, unless I first initialized Grub2's USB modules. This must have removed the bios issue preventing Grub4dos from working. A different machine worked fine, without the Grub2 USB modules; but would not work if I had the Grub2 USB modules loaded. You can also edit MSRs with Grub2. But as I've said, these are things you would "typically" not be dealing with.

I don't know if you are still working on this, but more information might help. Maybe Damnation's input already helped? What AGP Bios options are available? What VIA chipset is this? Does this machine already have an integrated video device? I've mostly worked with laptops and thinclients, these days. My accelerated video knowledge, with Windows, is on the decline. Pairing your AGP card info, with your VIA AGP chipset info, may help provide some insight. Is this a configuration that already works, with a different installed O.S.? Have you tried older versions of Catalyst (if your device is supported by them)?

Yeah, sometimes the machine just doesn't want to be your friend. After reading the indecent description, I wondered if the "so I boot into DOS, fdisk, delete primary dos partition" was done from the hard disk dos, or Cdrom/Floppy/USB. Not that it would probably made a difference; I'm just trying to pick at something. I don't recall ever using the installed FDISK, to erase itself. 173a might have been using portable boot media, as I always have.

I've noticed the following, in the ATI SMBUS inf file: Does Win98 need this? Or is it irrelevant?

One of the CD ISOs, that works, was made with WinOnCD. Still UCS Level 1 and no Rock Ridge.

genisoimage -J -ucs-level 1 -o test.iso /iso_files This ISO failed to function.

I noticed "Joliet UCS Level-1" on working ISOs. No Rock Ridge . I'll look into creating something.

Here are four ISOs. All failed, but work when copied. All are CD images. FreeDos Live. FreeDos Bonus. ReactOS Live. Aros Live.