Wunderbar98

Your oldest hardware i would call fast @NotHereToPlayGames. GNU/Linux isn't for everyone, i use old Debian and current Devuan, check out Distrowatch. If all you want is a modern browser, Tiny Core Linux with latest Firefox, they use a script called firefox_get_latest or similar, the entire OS and browser should be about 300 MB. If Windows XP is already drive one, partition one, then GParted from a liveCD can shrink the Windows partition, add GNU/Linux partitions for the filesystem and swap (defrag Windows XP first). If you want to lean out your Windows XP installation partition, for leaner backups of the XP operating system, create a second NTFS partition first to transfer 'My Documents' data. You won't need to re-install Windows XP, unless user error, though a full backup beforehand is a good idea. The suggestion from @Gansangriff is very good if you can spare a second drive. Physically disconnect the Windows XP drive before the GNU/Linux install to prevent accidental over-write. After GNU/Linux is installed, reconnect the Windows XP drive (as primary). From here you can simply choose which system to boot from the BIOS or computer's boot screen (drive 1 Windows XP, drive 2 GNU/Linux). More common, re-configure Grub2 (whatever boot loader) and install it to MBR of either drive (or both). If using Grub2 then commands like 'sudo os-prober' and 'sudo grub-install' will find Windows XP and you have a happy dual-boot. Now your Windows XP install, which took lots of time to set up and customize, can regularly be backed up to the second/separate physical drive with a copy/paste or 'sudo cp -axv ...' command, no future Windows XP re-install should ever be needed on that hardware. Since i personally consider modern GNU/Linux more secure than Windows XP, and you'll likely use GNU/Linux for sensitive browsing like banking, one advantage is Windows XP won't have access to a GNU/Linux filesystem. GNU/Linux will still be able to mount and access FAT and NTFS, so file sharing can go in that direction.

Call me fan @Mr.Scienceman2000, no problem, DOS and Unix based despite flaws. What i don't understand is ranting and complaining. I recently had a Windows 98 fragmentation issue that took lots of time to test, troubleshoot and find obscure documentation. No rant, just another puzzle to solve. GNU/Linux has been good to me, pros greatly outweigh the cons. If the Mozilla bashing thread has fizzled, maybe start a Linux bashing thread, then a thread about fellow members who don't know what they are talking about or whatever else makes you rage. Eventually the reflection will become an angry, old man. Use your time how you see fit, really what's the point. Fly away if you want, personally it would be nice if you stayed, your inputs are (still) appreciated. I'll share some dirt, two most frustrating computing experiences, that's why they're memorable. An ISA sound card with dip switches (no documentation or internet help) in my early Windows 98 days and the first time a Samba network was installed at the office (GNU/Linux and Windows file and print sharing). Both tasks took far longer and were more frustrating than anticipated. In both cases the hardware and software worked fine, i just needed some learning and experience. I never needed another ISA card and now i have good Samba notes with a working config file example, subsequent setups took a fraction of the effort. Whatever works best for the use case, of course, the purpose of multi-boot, use the strength of every system. This has extended the productive life of my old hardware many years. Most kernel contributions are corporate, bad old Microsoft, at least they don't have full control yet (embrace, extend, extinguish). Eventually something big will surface and users will flee, it's all shifting sand. Use a different distribution, avoid systemd, PulseAudio, D-Bus, blobs, Mozilla and Chrome. Use a hardened or custom kernel, simple/lean distributions and software, Linux from Scratch. How far down the rabbit hole.. There have never been more OS options, switch to BSD or many other choices. To me the future isn't bright though, poor moral compass and corporate greed will win. Eventually probably just turn off the computer as much as possible and enjoy other pursuits. To me computing isn't nearly as fun as the earlier, more innocent, days of the internet. Henceforth all heavy software will more appropriately be called full-featured @UCyborg. Even though my hardware is limited, full-featured software is required on a daily basis (office suite, browser). Hi @Gansangriff, in general newer LibreOffice releases aren't much more useful for me, review the changelogs. I do remember, however, from v3 to v5 or v6 they added extra image manipulation features inside Word document tables, something that was useful here. The rapid update cycle gets tiring, though. We use fairly complex spreadsheets and on one occasion a major LibreOffice release required re-working some tabbed-sheet formulas. Since most here don't use 20 year old hardware (22 year old BIOS), LibreOffice load time was tested on an 11 year old Windows XP dual-boot. after fresh Devuan Beowulf boot running MATE desktop. First load of LibreOffice to a new text document was 15 seconds, decent (2010 era, 3.2 GHz dual core, 64-bit, SATA drive).

To anyone posting, please read the thread title carefully. It's purpose is not to compete with your beloved (mobile or old) Windows software, it's to provide a viable solution for old Windows 9x era hardware in the modern era. Old Windows fans, who don't want Microsoft's latest, need solutions for a modern computing environment. To anyone who follows tech news, it's evident they are still using the same playbook: behind the scenes upgrades to Windows 10, difficulty changing default browser, 'Shopping with Microsoft Edge', etc. As @NotHereToPlayGames indicated, 'Office 365 and LibreOffice (the only two options available on company computers)'. If you're farting around at home, doesn't matter. If you need inter-office compatability it's a big deal. And of course the breaking point for all these good old Windows systems is always the web browser, that's another story. So no, newer isn't always better, rarely better actually..but often required. LibreOffice as a project needs to compete with latest Microsoft, not Word 97. If Microsoft adds features and LibreOffice lags, they are no longer a viable alternative. A software monopoly should not be tolerated (or supported). Here's the history of Microsoft Word, of course they already knew basic documents and spreadsheets years ago. The churning adds new features, forced upgrade, more dollars: Word for DOS, Word for Windows 1989 to 1995, Word 95, Word 97, Word 98, Word 2000, Word 2001, Word 2002/XP, Word 2003, Word 2004, Word 2007, Word 2008, Word 2010, Word 2011, Word 2013, Word 2016, Word 2019, Word included with Office 365. Office 365 requirements (Windows): - 1.6 GHz or faster, 2-core - 4 GB RAM or 2 GB RAM (32-bit) - 4 GB of available disk space - 1280 x 768 screen resolution - Graphics hardware acceleration requires DirectX 9 or later - Windows 11, Windows 10, Windows 8.1, Windows Server 2019, Windows Server 2016 - The current version of Microsoft Edge, Safari, Chrome, or Firefox - Some features may require .NET 3.5 or 4.6 and higher https://www.microsoft.com/en-ca/microsoft-365/microsoft-365-and-office-resources#coreui-heading-5dcqxz4 LibreOffice requirements (GNU/Linux release): - Pentium-compatible PC (Pentium III, Athlon or more-recent system recommended) - 256Mb RAM (512 MB RAM recommended) - Up to 1.55 GB available hard disk space - X Server with 1024x768 resolution, with at least 256 colors https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/system-requirements/ Why the bar is always set higher for open source projects, GNU/Linux included, while most force upgrade is beyond comprehension. So when referring to competitve, large scale, modern projects like office suites, where's the bloat exactly? As indicated, this Devuan Beowulf install runs on 20 year old hardware with a hard drive footprint of 3.2 GB. This includes core operating system, graphics, sound, helper applications, window manager (Openbox), 4 web browsers (Dillo, Firefox-ESR, SeaMonkey, Links2), full featured file manager (Caja), music player (Audacious), video player (Mplayer) and LibreOffice. I don't see the load times others are reporting, my LibreOffice test results were reported earlier.

Hi all. We could all list progressively lighter software, which would in turn have less features or become less compatible in modern environments. I could happily write a novel using vi but that wouldn't interest anyone. To re-iterate, the 45 second load time for LibreOffice above is using an 800 MHz system, not many use this hardware today as daily driver. To me it's a good accomplishment: full featured office suite, open source, continuous development, thousands of commits, more features, constantly striving for inter-office compatability, same load time with less RAM than 10 years ago. Hopefully the coders won't think their life's work gets summarized as 'absolutely appaling' @Gansangriff. The memory footprint of a relatively modern LibreOffice in GNU/Linux is 33 MB, what are you referring to when you indicated Open Office at '106,2 MB' (RAM use, package size)? On same hardware with a fresh boot, old RetroZilla loads in 15 seconds in Windows 98 SE while the latest SeaMonkey (non-SSE2 capable hardware) loads in 39 seconds in GNU/Linux. By my estimate RetroZilla is a half-functional browser (basic browser functions, loads most pages, poor rendering, no JavaScript). In comparison, this SeaMonkey still works well on > 90% of websites. Personal preference, i'm not going to discard old hardware or relegate it hobby status because i've run out of fingers and toes to count load times. If RetroZilla took more than twice the time to load but provided the same functionality as a newer SeaMonkey then Windows 98 would still be a viable sole operating system, sadly it's not. There are almost always work-arounds for older hardware, though it's not always feasible to use the lightest alternatives, mostly learn some patience and enjoy the experience. Even modern computing with new hardware and latest browsers has load times but we've all developed work-arounds, such as loading browser tabs in the background.

Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000. Sorry i meant no links to the images, not codecs. I was rushed and didn't have time to closely search the HTML source of your post. On a newer OS with newer browser i'm able to see your images. Direct image links for anyone else running old OS/browsers: https://msfn.org/board/uploads/monthly_2021_12/vapaastyyleri.gif.6701e649f0d9ee6a5eae313e21a262ec.gif https://msfn.org/board/uploads/monthly_2021_12/media.gif.a438e172fce295eab8ef290b4e432a20.gif https://msfn.org/board/uploads/monthly_2021_12/codec.gif.e19eb77f25b8eb3132b84363278e544c.gif Yes i heard some drives, like Maxtor, don't have the best reputation. Almost all this hardware was free so i'm happy, they rarely fail. Haven't researched, Maxtor drives seem to run noisy, maybe just age (my knees don't sound the same either). Was watching Seinfeld (TV series, 1989-1998). The desktop computer in his apartment is never turned on. Wonder what he's running, prop i guess. Re-watched GoldenEye (Bond series, 1995), lots of IBM advertising and good old CRT monitors. In one scene a protagonist enters an IBM corporate store to pretend bulk order systems, a ploy so she could access a private computer test room for spy communication. She specified the systems must have 500 MB drives, CD-ROM drives and 14.4 Kbps modems. No operating system was specified. Fun stuff.

Enjoy your project @Mr.Scienceman2000, thanks for reporting. No image or image links visible, not in source either, just a bunch of new line breaks. Will try to check later from a newer system. Reported before, here MPlayer standalone is used (from SMPlayer v0.6.7) for lightweight MP4 playback. Thanks for the feedback @RainyShadow. An 80-wire IDE cable is already installed. The drive is a Maxtor DiamondMax, 11 GB (not 10), manufactured April 1999, 5400 RPM. Not sure if it applies, Maxtor released a firmware update long time ago named UDMAUPDT (66to100.exe) to open the data pipe. Regardless, no firmware will be applied. This drive is limping along nicely and i no longer have an unlimited supply of IDE drives (spread across many systems). The tweaked performance noted above is adequate, noticeable improvement. Trialed two more combinations, unfortunately sub-optimal performance, UDMA hangup. DMA=on PIO=Mode0 UDMA=Auto 10.8 MB/s DMA=on PIO=Mode4 UDMA=Auto 10.8 MB/s Some site is selling this old/small drive for $87.76, presumably USD, crazy.

== DMA Tuning == = Overview = DMA tuning to increase disk performance. = Background = Slow disk access bottlenecks performance. In general if the hardware supports DMA then System Properties -> Device Manager -> Disk Drives -> Properties -> Settings tab should provide a DMA checkbox. This is not always the case and can be forced (out of scope). Warning, even though DMA appears available checking this option may result in a non-booting system (consider backup, can be remedied, out of scope). IIRC all hardware used here for Windows 98, manufactured 1999 and newer, supported DMA. Checking DMA alone may not provide optimal performance. = DOS Check = Most users (me too) check the DMA box and reboot, variation of 'plug and pray'. Fortunately DOS debug mode can check for DMA support, good article below. http://www.helpwithwindows.com/windows98/tune-35.html = Test Hardware = Bare metal Windows 98 SE, Athlon 1.8 GHz, 1.5 GB RAM, PATCHMEM, Maxtor 10 GB IDE drive (6 GB FAT32 Win98, 4 GB EXT2 data, query 5400 RPM, old and noisy). = BIOS Settings = On this test hardware the relevant Phoenix AwardBIOS settings are Integrated Peripherals -> IDE Function Setup -> PIO (auto or mode 0, 1, 2, 3, 4) and UDMA (auto, disable). - Multiboot Considerations = Modifying IDE settings in the BIOS may adversely affect other operating systems. This test hardware uses two hard drives with Windows 98 SE being the only operating system on the drive. In this test BIOS, IDE settings are nicely separated for IDE0 (master, slave) and IDE1 (master, slave). = Benchmarking = Numerous benchmark tools are available, here AIDA32 is already installed (Plugin -> AIDA32 Disk Benchmark). The primary test was 'Quick Linear Read' (full test, Average MB/s, higher is better), designed to measure the linear (sequential) reading performance in a shorter duration than the Linear Read test. https://aida32.en.uptodown.com/windows/download = Results = DMA=off PIO=Auto UDMA=Auto 5.9 MB/s DMA=on PIO=Auto UDMA=Auto 9.3 MB/s DMA=on PIO=Auto UDMA=disable 11.4 MB/s DMA=on PIO=Mode0 UDMA=disable 3.1 MB/s DMA=on PIO=Mode1 UDMA=disable 4.7 MB/s DMA=on PIO=Mode2 UDMA=disable 7.5 MB/s DMA=on PIO=Mode3 UDMA=disable 9.4 MB/s DMA=on PIO=Mode4 UDMA=disable 11.4 MB/s On this test system DOS debug mode confirmed DMA was available and Windows 98 provided a DMA checkbox. The 'intuitive settings' (DMA enabled, PIO Auto, UDMA Auto) were a 22% reduction over peak performance (9.3 vs 11.4 MB/s). Maybe disabling UDMA for Windows 98 is common knowlege, new learning for me. Ignoring lower PIO modes, comparing probably a common initial install configuration (DMA off, PIO Auto, UDMA Auto) to the best result (5.9 vs 11.4 MB/s), there is a 93% performance improvement. Optimal settings on this test system are DMA enabled, PIO Mode4 or PIO Auto, and UDMA disable. During testing it was quickly apparent that enabling DMA improved performance while allowing UDMA hindered performance. Then it was just a matter of finding an optimal PIO setting. Since 'PIO Auto' and 'PIO Mode4' results are the same, the system was set to PIO Auto.

Good to see you @Bruninho. Well i think forever, haven't noticed any issues. You could rename (disable) the executable but i haven't found a need for this yet. Fortunately there are still lots of tweaking sites around. Tuning Windows 98 still makes me happy over 20 years later. Thanks for the tips @Gansangriff and @Mr.Scienceman2000. My systems are configured similarly, anything to keep things lean and functional, though i haven't done a 'lite' install for a while. It's amazing how few SYSTEM.INI and WIN.INI settings (and C:\WINDOWS files) are actually necessary. In addition to the MSCONFIG.EXE -> Startup tip, a search for 'runonce' in REGEDIT.EXE may also be useful. Review everything in the associated Run, RunOnce, RunOnceEx and RunServices entries (backup registry before hacking). Maybe controversial i use various registry cleaners and maintenance software. From DOS, periodically running 'SCANREG /FIX' and 'SCANREG /OPT' doesn't hurt, though Windows Registry Checker apparently optimizes the registry once it contains more than 500 KB of empty data blocks. TCP Optimizer v3.0.8 tweaks my ethernet connection. To monitor performance during runtime, here Process Explorer v8.52 minimized to tray (CPU usage), TinyResMeter v0.95a on desktop (RAM and page file use, uptime) and Tihiy's indicator (network activity monitor). In Add/Remove Programs -> Windows Setup tab there isn't much installed here aside from 8 useful utilities (calculator, games, imaging, paint, WordPad, CD player, volume control, system monitor). To me Windows 98 can run heavy or snappy-happy depending on what's utilized and configured. For fun and nostalgia all Windows 98 wallpapers, mouse pointers, screen savers and themes were installed a couple weeks ago. Played around and enjoyed them for an hour, then promptly removed.

Hi @jaclaz, thanks for the link. Apparently Spread32 works in GNU/Linux with Wine (not tested). Why no GNU/Linux release, maybe in the future, would you stop using it then - lol. https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/spreadce/linux-version-t73.html There are lightweight alternatives for almost anything in GNU/Linux, spreadsheet and word processors included. Above was a more apples to apples comparison of a full office suite, commonly installed software, demonstrating Windows 98 era hardware need not be limited to older software or the lightest software that can be found.

Office Suite comparison on an old 800 MHz, 384 MB RAM system. Modern GNU/Linux has become bloated too, need to be careful what's installed and how it's configured. Having said that, it can help keep old hardware functional. Both office suites below are full-featured, bloatware that run heavy on their respective operating system. In GNU/Linux i prefer Pluma for *.doc files (tabbed documents) and in Windows 98 it's usually Wordpad. Launch times are from a fresh boot after the system is calm to a new text document. Memory footprint is the initial load of the office suite to a new text document, which includes it's associated helper files (DLL, lib*). Memory footprint was calculated in Windows 98 using System Monitor and in GNU/Linux the 'free' command. Note initial launch times were essentially the same (slow). Both office suites have minor configuration changes, such as disabling Java Runtime. Additional configuration may help but for this quick comparison good enough. Since office suites aren't used here daily, 'quick launch' features are also disabled. Windows 98 SE Open Office v2.4.3 (2008) Launch time: 45 seconds Memory footprint: 88 MB GNU/Linux (Devuan Beowulf) LibreOffice v6.1.5.2 (2018) Launch time: 45 seconds Memory footprint: 33 MB

The MDGx site is almost overwhelming, so many tips and tricks. The CLEAN DEFRAG section was helpful, particularly tips #1 (defrag at startup) and #4 (disable TASKMON.EXE). https://www.mdgx.com/98-3.htm#CLNDEF 1. Run DEFRAG.EXE at startup. The DEFRAG.INF file can be found in \Tools\Mtsutil directory of the Windows 98 setup CD-ROM. It creates a one-time RunServicesOnce entry in the registry to run DEFRAG.EXE early during next boot, before login when most startup applications have not yet loaded. Note automatic logon via TweakUI or similar needs to be disabled, otherwise DEFRAG.EXE will attempt to run as the system boots to desktop and loads all startup items. 4. Disable TASKMON.EXE. Disable TASKMON.EXE via registry and manually gut C:\WINDOWS\APPLOG. Future defrags will fully defrag all files, defrag process will be quicker and less system resources used for application indexing during runtime. HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Run

Those Nokias are cool @Mr.Scienceman2000, the E90 still seems modern, more capable than my older Palms. In RetroZilla, View -> Use Style -> None was needed to read the good Nokia specs. DEFRAG.EXE was, in fact, fragmenting the first portion of the partition. Apparently this is by design when selecting 'Rearrange program files so my programs start faster'. As DEFRAG.EXE doesn't provide a visual overview of fragmentation, tools like VoptXP v7.22 (recommended), Diskeeper Lite v7.0.418.0L (not recommended) and multi-boot Windows XP defrag confirm the fragmentation, immediately after running DEFRAG.EXE in Windows 98. My defrag woes were previously mentioned on Page 53 and 54 (November 5, 8, 9, 23). --- ASK DAN THE COMPUTER MAN quote: In Windows 98 there is a change in the way the defragmenter works. Each time Win98 starts, a small program called TaskMon runs. It keeps track of which files are opened and read each time you launch a program. Log files are recorded and placed in the hidden folder, C:\WINDOWS\APPLOG. The log files usually have an LGC extension to indicate that they are a log file on the C drive, LGD extension for files on the D drive. The name of the log file is the name of the program that TaskMon is tracking. Another file, APPLOG.IND, track how many times an application program has run. The defragmenter program will examine the files that TaskMon created in order to determine which programs should be optimized. This is based on how many time the program has been run; those run most are placed optimally on the hard drive. The optimal placement of the programs on the hard drive is governed by Disk Defragmenter and sometimes it may actually fragment a file for better performance. Don't worry, it knows what its doing. http://www.user.shentel.net/danh/may99.htm --- Longer, roundabout explanation that also discusses Walign and Winalign. https://www.techrepublic.com/article/speed-up-windows-98-applications-with-winalign/ On this system it often, actually, fragments a file with no perceivable performance benefit. Interestingly i don't think Windows XP continued to utilize such a system, the extra complication and overhead probably wasn't worth the effort. In Windows 98, Process Explorer v8.52 can be used to identify when C:\WINDOWS\TASKMON.EXE is running, it doesn't show via Task Manager (Ctrl-Alt-Delete). My older, seasoned Windows 98 install has a gutted C:\Windows\Applog directory. In my zeal to keep the system lean i must have done something previously to disable this 'feature', hence no fragmentation issue. Probably i thought they were just log files, though really a database. Emptying C:\Windows\Applog then running programs and using DEFRAG.EXE, it is interesting to see the database slowly rebuild. To me this 'feature' isn't useful: extra background process, extra drive access to maintain the database, intentionally fragmenting the front of a partition. I will stick with the old Windows 95 behaviour. If unselecting 'Rearrange program files so my programs start faster' doesn't stop the database process, i will find another method or sledgehammer TASKMON.EXE.

Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000, the list of missing features got long for me too. Shame but i guess it's almost always the case, hard to substitute for the original, almighty DOS hardware. Two more successful solders, hard wired DC power supply to a Palm Tungsten C to compensate for a fading battery. This old hardware is fun so i limp it along. I have one Palm-Pilot Pro from 3Com and another Palm-Pilot Pro from USRobotics. They are about 1997 era, sync with system via serial port and use replaceable AAA batteries. The other is the Palm Tungsten C, about 2003, syncs via USB and has a built-in specialty battery. Got them for free over the years before they became retro-valuable, probably junk drawer clean-up. These Palms were never used here for legitimate business, just tinker toys, adult gameboys. Since they were received after switching to GNU/Linux, J-Pilot was always used here to add software, sync and backup the devices. Palms were peak popular during the Windows 9x and earlier Windows NT heyday, there are probably lots of sync clients available, haven't checked. My Palm applications were hoarded years ago when it seemed most sites were shutting down. Fortunately somewhat of a revival. The PalmDB site works well with RetroZilla using View -> Use Style -> None. PalmDB about: PalmDB is a community effort to preserve the work and history of Palm OS and its developers. From 1996-2007, Palm dominated the pocket computer marketplace and ushered in the modern smartphone era years before it became mainstream. Originally marketed as business devices dubbed "personal digital assistants" (or PDAs), Palm found unexpected popularity in the home as well, with a vast library of apps and games arising for use both in and out of the office. Future models would go on to be some of the first smartphones ever made. https://palmdb.net/

Added Invidious to 'Bonus' section of first post.

Thanks for all responses. I remember those Nokias @Mr.Scienceman2000. Apparently it would no longer work with my provider, cool you can still use it. Don't remember text being a thing in 1997 though. Corporations and people ship a lot of garbage, if your friend found the hard drive useful then it was worth the journey. Thanks for the Invidious tips @Gansangriff, the link you provided works well in RetroZilla, no JavaScript required, good download speed, lots of video formats from dropdown. As the sites change, if anyone is looking for alternative instances. https://api.invidious.io/ Hi @siria. I couldn't get 'video.genyt.xyz' to work, tested on two systems. It just forwards to 'www.genytb.net/?e503' with '503 NA - Service Deprecating'. Maybe i'm missing something. The last time i visited the K-Meleon forum your StyleKiller download didn't seem to work. If you have time and inclination feel free to place a download link on the MSFN K-Meleon thread. Without this macro web browsing isn't functional on many sites. https://msfn.org/board/topic/181726-k-meleon-tls-12-in-vanilla-windows-98-se Unfortunately keepvid[dot]works now fails in RetroZilla with a CAPTCHA error, now out of vanilla Windows 98's reach. Watched a good review of the 'weeCee - Tiny DOS Gaming PC' from LGR on YT (~15 mins). Pretty cool hobby hardware. Old DOS, games and Windows 9x without emulation. Don't think it's in production. Seems neat until it's limitations are realized, then to me get proper retro hardware for the richest experience. https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/weeCee___Tiny_DOS_Gaming_PC.html

Hi @Gansangriff. Unfortunately landfills and recycle stations aren't accessible for scavenging. Too bad, probably dozens of systems permanently removed from rotation daily in my city alone. Here too used computer stores are expensive. I don't purchase online or go to yard sales, so for me the cheapest is free ads from local buy/sell sites. Next cheapest private sales from the same buy/sell sites. Being patient helps, i'm not in a big hurry. Here a working Pentium 4 (tower only) for $50 CDN is about 5 Big Mac meals. So it looks more expensive here, especially if you meant 4.5 Big Macs only (no meal) and/or your Pentium 4s include monitor, mouse and keyboard. Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000. Cellphones i pay little attention too, never spent much on them. For years my employer provided internet and cellphones. Then when i ran a business it was tax deductible. I'm presently grandfathered into a pay-as-you-go plan, which has cheap rates and allows money to build up (no mandatory monthly withdrawal) if i don't text or call much. I actually only purchased one cellphone myself, cheap flip-phone in 2007. When the provider 'upgraded' networks requiring an updated phone, i refused to pay for a new phone as my old one worked fine and the network upgrade wasn't my doing. They agreed to provide a free replacement, I selected another dumb old flip-phone.

Regarding defrag, 12 test cycles. Reverted to Windows 98's DEFRAG.EXE to confirm it wasn't a Windows ME DEFRAG.EXE issue, it's not. Got impatient and defragged without 'optimization' to get things in order. Will probably let it go. Some command line switches seem to help, then not with repeat testing, strange. Also trialed disabling startup items and using safe mode. Picked up free older 'Arris boxes' (cable TV, personal video recorder). One server and three TV boxes. The big juicy a 500 GB SATA drive. Used 'dd' to zero the drive, no errors. It's now media center storage and a backup drive. Biggest drive in the house, by comparison my favourite dual-boot Windows 98 system uses two 6 GB IDE drives, one for each OS. The SATA drive came with a 'Rapid Conn' combined power/data plug that didn't match my computer's power supply plug. The data portion of the connector was needed, not the power wires. A vise and handheld hacksaw blade was used to carefully cut the plastic connector in half. Coarse sandpaper then ground the excess plastic to size. This modified data cable now fits and works well. The main 'Arris' server is essentially an encrypted, proprietary computer. Lots of parts: cooling fan, 4 power supply boards (not for computer tower, need to test voltages), capacitors, backlit remotes, AA batteries, power cords, connectors (eSATA, USB, ethernet). Knowing many people are needy, i usually don't respond to free ads for at least 4-7 days. After that i occasionally request items. My thinking is if the item didn't get picked up then the owner may recycle or toss it. At the recycle depot it literally gets 'tossed' into bins, forklifted and trucked, may sit in adverse weather, may get shipped half way around the world for 'recycling' (dumping is sometimes most accurate). So the chances of the hard drive and components still being useable is questionable. At least 3 solders last month, latest bathroom fan repair, all good, my skills are improving. Just like painting, preparation is key (clean surfaces, hot and clean iron, correct amount of flux and solder, occasionally pre-tin wires, stabilize work at correct angle). Certainly ready for a Pentium 4, haven't seen any for free. Complete Pentium 4s with keyboard, monitor and mouse are about $70-125 CDN, a standalone tower about $50. For reference, an inkjet printer cartridge here costs about $50 and a Big Mac meal about $9, maybe not a big deal. Told myself long time ago i would switcheroo to Raspberry Pi (about 10 watts of power, modern computing) if having to pay for 'old hardware'. As i get older these decisions get harder, one step closer to leaving my good old hardware and OS behind. It starts out innocently enough, distracted by a new toy, the old system gets shoved to the corner, now secondary, pretty soon rarely booted taking up space then eventually recycled :( Currently stuck on FreeCell game # 178.

Hi @UCyborg. That's because Links2 is awesome. Seems old browsers, or newer browsers with JavaScript disabled, can't get passed the embedded JavaScript placeholder throbber (spacer.png) in the image tag. Your actual imgur[dot]com image loads fine. Why the placeholder, too complicated, the image already has a new line spacer. Test summary for printer CD image provided by @UCyborg 3 posts up: DOS Links v2.25 - yes GNU/Linux Dillo - no GNU/Linux Firefox v78 - only after NoScript allows 'msfn.org' GNU/Linux Links - yes GNU/Linux SeaMonkey v2.49.4 - only after NoScript allows 'msfn.org' Win98 K-Meleon v1.5.4 - no Win98 RetroZilla v2.2 - no even after NoScript allows 'msfn.org' Changing source to bypass the embedded placeholder throbber works fine. Can't get the code properly pasted below, brackets removed but you get the idea. Next time instead of rebooting Windows 98 i will just get the image URL from the HTML source, though still a hassle. diff msfn.org.b1_ORIG.htm msfn.org.b2.htm 3684c3684 img alt="spacer.png" class="ipsImage" data-ratio="75.08" height="750" style="height:auto;" width="562" data-src="https://i.imgur.com/Nxe2lmA.jpg" src="https://msfn.org/board/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" --- img class="ipsImage" data-ratio="75.08" height="750" style="height:auto;" width="562" src="https://i.imgur.com/Nxe2lmA.jpg" Regarding hardware, i'm amazed at the technological bump from late 1990s to 2010. I know progress keeps churning but during this time period things changed considerably. There must be something to ancient alien theory, man isn't that smart. How did we get from wooden wagon wheels to networking the world in less than 150 years. Your original family computer (Pentium 133) would make a very nice retro build. For me a mix of command line and GUI is preferred. In this case it seems 'ink' via command line is easy enough. Simple GUI helpers are a nuisance to maintain (eg gtk -> gtk2 -> gtk3). The maintainers, often volunteer, already have enough work maintaining the actual printer code. I was happy enough with GTK2 and QT4 applications, things change too fast.

Hi @UCyborg. I believed you on the Windows 98 drivers but thanks for taking the time to upload the picture. It very much looks like a Windows 98/ME era printer. RetroZilla with msfn.org domain allowed via NoScript still didn't load the printer picture above. Needed to multi-boot to newer OS to view, how handy-dandy. To you i'm back in the stone age, 19" CRT monitor with 1152 x 864 resolution. Your comment regarding 3840 x 2160 is off the chart. Here a 720p video would not play back smoothly at all, i need 640 x 360. Printing was important here years ago when my business required taking actual paperwork into the field. Now it's still used weekly, though sometimes just for make work projects like calendar pages, to keep the printer active. If it were solely up to me i would ditch printers forever. At the office 10 years ago, working for 'the man', it was hoped printing and paperwork would no longer be required. That never happened and it seemed we were consuming almost as much paper than ever, despite shifting towards electronic documents. I'm no longer there, hopefully it was just a transition period and their procedures have modernized.

Hi @UCyborg. KDE made some nice recent improvements then, older data (2014) was similar to below. https://flexion.org/posts/2014-03-memory-consumption-of-linux-desktop-environments/ Desktop Environment ---> Memory Used Enlightenment 0.18.8 --> 83.8 MiB LXDE 0.5.5 ------------> 87.0 MiB XFCE 4.10.2 ----------> 110.0 MiB LXQt 0.7.0 -----------> 113.0 MiB MATE 1.8.1 -----------> 123.0 MiB Cinnamon 2.2.13 ------> 176.3 MiB GNOME3 3.12.2 --------> 245.3 MiB KDE 4.13.1 -----------> 302.6 MiB Unity 7.2.0.14 -------> 312.5 MiB My Windows 98 era hardware (384 MB RAM) prefers Window Managers. Although not the lightest, Openbox comes in at about 7 MB. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_window_managers For anyone Desktop Environment shopping. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_X_Window_System_desktop_environments RetroZilla can't properly research all sites, such as HP official. Two sources indicated HP DeskJet 3550 from Windows XP onward but if you say Windows 98 then bonus. Maybe i've been too harsh on printer manufacturers or maybe things are slowly improving. I read last week Apple is loosening up with 'right to repair'. Although it seems more of a forced change (court action), it's welcome. Quick searching, not important here, one package is 'ink' (tool for checking the ink level of your local printer), available direct from repository. It's dependency 'libinklevel' supports many printers, including Epson Stylus D92 (@Gansangriff) and HP DeskJet 3550 (@UCyborg). My two printers are not listed as supported (HP 4480, Canon MX310) but the site has disclaimers: http://libinklevel.sourceforge.net/ --- A note about Canon printers Some Canon printers transmit their ink levels as a binary value. They report only that there is enough ink or not enough ink for a particular cartridge. Libinklevel then reports 100% or 20% respectively. A note about Epson printers Under some circumstances, especially when one ink catridge is completely empty, it may take about 20 to 30 seconds to detect the ink level. Please take this into account before submitting a bug report. When you query the ink levels before the printer is fully initialized a sheet of paper will be drawn in. But nothing will be printed. To avoid this do not query the ink levels before the printer is fully initialized. A note about unsupported printers Support for most HP and Epson printers which transmit their ink level should now be included. Just give it a try and let me know the result so that I can add your printer to the appropiate list. Printers of other manufacturers will be supported when I can get information on how to retrieve their inklevel. If you have information on how to retrieve the ink level of a not yet supported printer, let me know. --- There are graphic front-ends for at least Gnome and KDE. A screenshot of the commandline output is linked below. The commands and output look basic but functional. http://ink.sourceforge.net/#supported

Hi @Gansangriff. With stable releases update surprises are rare, in my experience Windows updates cause more grief. Can't recall when one of my GNU/Linux systems failed to boot, aside from hardware breakage, even following updates. For extra stability use OldStable: lighter, no more updates, rock solid, software current enough for 3 more years (ca-certificates, browsers). Regardless there are many troubleshooting options for boot issues (example uses Debian-based with GRUB2 boot loader): - Boot an older kernel from boot loader (regular graphic mode, keep old kernels just in case) - Append boot code 'text' to boot loader (regular user, text mode) - Select 'Recovery Mode' from boot loader (root user, text mode) - Multi-boot from another operating system to fix configurations [1] - Boot from LiveCD or USB to fix configurations [1] - Use Plop to bypass broken MBR, boot any OS, fix breakage or reconfigure boot loader [1] [1] These methods also help with Windows issues All printers owned here since 1999 had either LED indicators and/or information panels. I troubleshoot most printer problems without a computer booted. The issue is usually straightforward, usually paper jam or ink delivery. If it's colour out, review last printouts or attempt a test page. If printer lockout prevents a test page print and it uses liquid cartridges (no sponge), pull them out and use the transparency window (if present) or give them a shake test. If the cartridges have built-in printheads, a dab test. I personally avoid printers that don't have printheads on the cartridges. Although more expensive, once the cartridge is replaced the printer works like new again. IMHO the customer's grumpiness is misplaced. Blame Epson for not providing GNU/Linux software. Blame Epson for not providing updated Windows drivers. Blame Microsoft for so quickly phasing out hardware. Blame the customer for not learning basic troubleshooting. If grumpy-pants had enough patience to read a manual page and use the command line utility there wouldn't be an issue. A .bashrc alias could be added for the most relevant command(s) (eg 'printer_ink' output ink levels). Don't blame GNU/Linux, who has already provided a working driver, for a printer Epson and Windows abandoned more than 10 years ago. In most cases it would be trivial for the vendor to provide updated driver and print software for the next Windows release, but they don't as this would affect printer sales. IMHO most printer issues are deliberately engineered. It shouldn't be this difficult or expensive to get ink onto paper. The corporate solution is buy new cartridges every 6-12 months and new printers every 3-5 years. I've fought this for years with refills and it's caused much grief and inky fingers. Blaming GNU/Linux for this mess never occured to me. People get grumpy about everything, especially if their workflow is interrupted. To me software is a learning curve, which can be frustrating. I finally spent time learning more DOS, although simpler not all commands and configurations are intuitive. For the most part they just need to be learned and experienced. Most everthing worth learning is not mastered overnight. Personally i think it's good to learn as many operating systems as possible, for fun and to reduce dependency on proprietary systems. GNU/Linux is not a drop in replacement for Windows, it's Unix roots were growing before Microsoft existed. A new user should understand that or it will just be one frustration after another. That's why to me multi-boot is still the best alternative.

Hi @sabre_chen. Wonder if the email provider is upgrading servers and haven't refreshed the customer information page. Have you tried upgrading your RetroZilla install with @roytam1's files using the method recommended by @loblolly986 ? https://msfn.org/board/topic/181416-retrozilla-community-edition/page/4/?tab=comments#comment-1199080 According to the post, if not upgraded properly then 'additional TLS ciphers supported by Roy's build not actually being presented to web servers'. You may want to perform a fresh RetroZilla install along with a new profile. You could also try the User Agent Switcher extension, presenting a more modern browser. The extension collection link is available from the first post of the RetroZilla Community Edition thread.

Hi @Gansangriff. I don't know what 'let's get fictional' means. If you're still referring to luck, then i must be the luckest guy on the planet, which for sure isn't true. If these statements come across as bragging, please don't interpret this way, it is my actual experience. I'm no computer expert any more than most others here. Is all your work Slackware-based? Again not bragging, here a printer, 3-in-1 printer or dedicated scanner have never failed to run in GNU/Linux. Primarily HP and Canon, think there was a Brother too. This is going back to old Ubuntu, Debian (proper) and now Devuan. Granted it's just basic printer drivers, not a 'software suite' that likes to tell me the ink is almost empty then phones home every 5 minutes to offer an online purchase. I've spent plenty of time over the years studying physical hardware, looking for stickers and stamps on circuit boards, then back to the internet. It's usually, however, to figure out what Windows drivers i need to download. For GNU/Linux i don't bother with this, as most hardware is plug and play. If it doesn't work then use 'lshw | less', 'lspci -v', 'lsusb -v' or 'inxi' to identify the hardware, or at least how that particular GNU/Linux system has identified the hardware. Then it's usually just a matter of installing the correct driver package from the repository, sometimes enabling non-free drivers, rarely kernel module manipulation, rarely some forum searching. Funny how we view experiences differently. In old Windows it's sometimes hard to find the correct driver online, then it may just work with XP, not 9x. To me this is much more frustrating. Plus really, unless you're a vendor, setup the hardware once then use it for 10 years. In Windows you may need to repeat this process every 3-5 years, in GNU/Linux 'dist-upgrades' rarely trigger hardware issues. To me it sounds like you're bitter or frustrated with GNU/Linux, or you need a break, that's okay. Definitely not for everyone. Not meant to be harsh but if you want a 'solution that works all the time' then computers are the wrong hobby or profession. After all, this is a forum largely dedicated to users having Windows issues. I think Xfce may be the closest to the traditional Windows feel, not too heavy, IIRC even has a 'control panel'. Anyway, hope you have a good computing day regardless what you run.

Hi @Gansangriff. Just trying to clarify misconceptions and help out. Every user runs what they want but when i see hundreds of forum members attempting to keep expired >10 year old (operating) systems alive, seems prudent to find alternatives. If my effort keeps a few systems out of landfill that's good and recycling doesn't do a full and proper job either. GNU/Linux uses less energy, again it would depend how it's configured. My basic window manager (not Desktop Environment) systems are calm, Windows XP tends to thrash more even after leaning out services. With Windows installs, most energy is spent trying to minimize services and bloat. In GNU/Linux i do a netinstall, bare bones minimum to get a text boot, then hand pick packages, very lean. There are users here complaining about poor GNU/Linux performance, then it's discovered they run fully loaded Ubuntu or Mint or use heavy Desktop Environments like Gnome or KDE. If you consider yourself intermediate or expert, do yourself a favour and trial a minimal, lean GNU/Linux install with only a Window Manager, the performance rewards are worth the effort. The system is modular, you can still pull in your favourite applications. There is no 'luck' with hardware, computers are concrete and follow instructions. A Debian-based distribution is recommended for the vast number of pre-compiled packages. There are differences in package 'packaging' but anyway based on Wiki link below, Slackware or Slitaz has 2000 - 3000 packages compared to almost 90,000 in Debian. Unless you're an expert, getting hardware running in Slackware will be more difficult. If you're a new GNU/Linux user, don't set yourself up for failure. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions#Package_management_and_installation In Debian-based, 'Synaptic' is a good GUI for querying repositories for packages or adding repositories, such as non-free, in case non-free drivers are required for your particular hardware. Old or new hardware doesn't matter, most anything more than one year old should work quite well. For the record, Debian-based installs here on any system have never failed in over 15 years. At present this house has 6 Debian-based systems running modern GNU/Linux (Fluxbox, Openbox, LXDE, MATE), 5 of them multi-boot old Windows, ranging from 2000 - 2010 era. The hardware (drivers) work fine on all 6 installs, including ethernet, wifi, touchpad, sound, graphics. Setting up two new systems in the last three years, it was necessary to swap out one graphic card (GNU/Linux issue) and two network cards (Windows 98 and 2000 issues). The double-standard with drivers is perplexing. Windows users complain when a network or graphic card needs to get swapped. Yet it's business as usual when their entire hardware setup needs upgrading (replacing) every 3-5 years to run updated Windows. For example, i have a 2009 era netbook that runs modern GNU/Linux fine. There are only official drivers for Windows XP. If i were a Windows-only user i couldn't run Windows 9x on the hardware and may have 'upgraded' (replaced) the hardware up to 4 times to keep running latest Windows (XP, 7, 8, 10). So when Windows XP expired did i have a 'driver problem'? Of course yes, every component on the system is now considerd by Windows to be obsolete (motherboard, graphics, sound, wifi, ethernet, etc). Do users complain, maybe but most just go shopping. Having to swap out a single component, like a network or graphic card is trivial in comparison. It's like getting a free car as a gift then complaining that a punctured tire needed to be replaced - no gratitude. Here LibreOffice v6 (2018) runs fine in modern GNU/Linux on the same old hardware (800 MHz) that runs Windows 98. There is no delay in keystrokes and tasks like cut/paste work fine. Of course it runs heavier than Word 97, it's more than 20 years newer, more added features (and bloat) and is an entire office suite. Personally i usually open *.doc files in Pluma but sometimes a full featured editor or spreadsheet application is needed. Using the same 20 year spread, i could state 'DOS uses less memory than Windows 10', but hey.

Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000. Videos via HTML5 aren't used here, just mentioned as that's probably how most view videos. I custom coded a youtube-dl front-end a while ago (now converting to yt-dlp). It allows doing everything from a Bash terminal, no need to open a web browser. This includes: search YouTube and MSN video, check video formats and availability, bookmark videos, remember stream and search history, quick access favourite hard-coded channels, read YouTube video information, view YouTube video image (feh, gpicview), stream video (MPlayer, VLC), download video (autoplay on/off), check for yt-dlp updates, auto-update yt-dlp, fetch some videos not supported by yt-dlp, etc. It's very efficient and works well. Sometimes i tire of the coding, just a hobby, never released.