Wunderbar98

To cherry pick a quote from the 'article_link_that_makes_me_cringe'. My personal list would be much longer and include intentionally locking out systems, removing critical updates, lying to customers, corporate greed vs good, etc. The bulk of this forum activity are users desperately trying to keep their beloved old systems alive, much of it intentionally sabotaged by Microsoft. --- Article: I want to make one thing crystal clear - Windows, in some regards, is even worse than Linux and it has its own share of critical problems. Off the top of my head I want to name the following quite devastating issues with Windows: • Windows rot, • no enforced file system and registry hierarchy (I have yet to find a single serious application which can uninstall itself cleanly and fully), • no true safe mode, • the user as a system administrator (thus viruses/malware - most users don't and won't understand UAC warnings), • no good packaging mechanism (MSI is a fragile abomination), • no system-wide update mechanism (which includes third party software), • Windows is extremely difficult to debug, • Windows boot problems are often fatal and unsolvable unless you reinstall from scratch, • Windows is hardware dependent (especially when running from UEFI), • heavy file system fragmentation on SSD disks, • Windows updates are terribly unreliable and they also waste disk space, etc. --- Skipping to 'This article is bollocks! Linux works for me/for my grandpa/for my aunt/etc'. Then states 'Hey, I love when people are saying this, however here's a list of Linux problems which affect pretty much every Linux user'. Abbreviated and point form: 1. Neither Mozilla Firefox nor Google Chrome use video decoding and output acceleration in Linux... Sites like YouTube via HTML5 work fine here, even in SeaMonkey. Video acceleration, can't comment, to use YouTube? Really, first world problem. Many GNU/Linux users use video alternatives, such as yt-dlp. Graphic frontends include Minitube and SMTube. Developers aren't dependent on Flash technology or a website dictating what they can/can't watch. 2. Drain your laptop battery a lot faster than e.g. in Windows. Can't comment, was this measured or formally tested? It would be difficut to compare apples and apples. Run a calm Window Manager for comparison. All those background services and flashy eyecandy in Windows 10 and battery use is still less, that would be surprising. Set up a comprehensive Conky to monitor your system and re-configure any blatant deficiencies, basic troubleshooting. 3. NVIDIA Optimus technology is a pain to use under most Linux distos and it does not work under secure UEFI mode at all for absolute most people out there. Don't use NVIDIA Optimus, though it seems most issues have been resolved or workarounds. If in doubt reseach hardware compatability before purchase. https://wiki.debian.org/NVIDIA%20Optimus 4. Keyboard shortcut handling for people using local keyboard layouts is broken. Keyboard works fine (English), other languages can't comment. Windows users sometimes have issues with this too. Again, how does this affect 'pretty much everybody'. The author is English speaking and most users probably configure their systems with English keyboard. 5. Keyboard handling in X.org is broken by design... Bollocks, give me a break. Yeah i boot GNU/Linux, start Xorg and can't properly use my keyboard. This isn't FUD? Change or re-configure your window manger i guess, nonsense, quit whining. 6. There's no easy way to use software which is not offered by your distro repositories, especially the software which is available only as sources. For the average Joe, who's not an IT specialist, there's no way at all. First off, when's the last time you wanted to use software in Windows that was only available as sources? Tens of thousands of binary packages available in the main repositories and still can't find what you want, first world problem. When necessary, to me compiling in GNU/Linux is more straightforward than Windows. Installing pre-compiled binaries outside main repositories is sometimes easy, download, unzip, click/paste. Adding extra repositories to sources.list is common (eg enable non-free and backported software). This is not an endorsement, Ubuntu has been using Personal Package Archives (PPAs) for years. Though i don't use this stuff, now there are Snap packages that handle all dependencies too. Ever try installing Windows 10 software in Windows XP, betcha now you're a happy camper. 7. You don't play games, do you? Linux still has very few native AAA games... How did gaming in GNU/Linux make it onto a list of things that would pretty much affect every GNU/Linux user, more first world problems. First hit '10 Best AAA Windows Games That You Can Play On Linux'. Gaming on Linux is developing fast. Not important here, for me old Windows games are still the best. Lots of GNU/Linux users run Steam. For basic games, running 'sudo apt search game' provides 100s of hits, not AAA. 8. Microsoft Office is not available for Linux. LibreOffice often has major troubles... GNU/Linux != Windows, grow up, LibreOffice works just fine. I've been using the 'free' stuff since Open Office, even sharing documents with other offices, nothing here worth griping about. 9. Several crucial Windows applications are not available under Linux: Quicken, Adobe authoring products, Corel authoring products, Auto desk software, serious BluRay/DVD authoring products, professional audio applications. Again GNU/Linux != Windows and again, how does this affect pretty much every GNU/Linux user? There are sofware alternatives in GNU/Linux for pretty much everything. Doesn't mean it's exactly the same or as 'good' as professional. If unhappy with that then use Windows for software that runs best in Windows and GNU/Linux for everything else, problem solved. The more tools in the box the better, that's why to me multi-boot is the best solution. 10. In 2021 there's still no alternative to Windows Network File Sharing (network file sharing that is easily configurable, discoverable, encrypted and password protected). NFS and SSHFS are two lousy totally user-unfriendly alternatives. Samba for file and printer sharing between Windows and GNU/Linux worked fine here for years, though i no longer network and purposely keep the systems separate. Of course there are lots of file sharing methods between GNU/Linux systems, afterall they run servers. Servers run more reliably in a non-graphic environment, not everything requires a GUI, surely you realize that Mr_Tech_Author? How is modifying a few configuration files unfriendly? Me thinks you should spend more time learning and less time complaining. 11. Linux doesn't have a reliably working hassle-free fast native (directly mountable via the kernel; FUSE doesn't cut it) MTP implementation. Okay that must affect pretty much every GNU/Linux user, especially someone dual-booting Windows 98. Are you sure this isn't all a list of personal gripes. Man you must be tiring to live with. Well here's a link with options but they won't be acceptable to the Grand Pubah. https://wiki.debian.org/mtp 12. Too many things in Linux require manual configuration using text files... That's a major tenet of the Unix philosophy, store data in flat text files. This stuff shouldn't be hiding in binaries and a GUI is less reliable for system configuration. You're blown, quit spreading FUD. 13. Linux is secure UEFI boot mode unfriendly... GNU/Linux is always forced to play catchup, known issue. For the most part GNU/Linux has solved most barriers, lots of resources online. If in doubt, research compatible hardware before purchase, that's just common sense. https://wiki.debian.org/UEFI https://wiki.debian.org/SecureBoot 14. If you're going to use any out of mainline tree drivers, e.g. NVIDIA, VirtualBox, VMWare, proprietary RAID, new Wi-Fi adapters, etc. etc. etc. This is a really bad situation which no Linux distro wants to address. GNU/Linux is developing drivers all the time. Due to limited resources, most attention is typically spent on the most common hardware (purchase hint). In fact, no other system supports more drivers in a single boot, period. It's hard to be open source when the world is closed. Again these items don't affect 'pretty much every Linux user', you said it yourself 'out of mainline'. If in doubt research hardware before purchase. I wouldn't buy a car or appliance without research, why is this different. There's something wrong with the mentality that 'everything' should work in GNU/Linux, it doesn't in Windows and Apple is the most closed source of all. 15. A personal nitpick which might be very relevant nowadays: under XFCE/Gnome/KDE there's no way to monitor your BlueTooth devices battery level on screen at all times... Actually most of the list was your personal nitpicks, grow up. BlueTooth battery level, sheesh. I'm sure it's been addressed by now but i'm tired of doing your research. If you can't use a search engine then turn off your computer and go read a book. 16. ... meanwhile the feature has been available under Windows and Android for quite some time already. GNU/Linux != Windows, surely a tech expert would understand this, i tried to drill it into your head a few times already. Every Linux user, really? All i hear is a squeaky wheel who would rather complain than find solutions.

Hi @Gansangriff, the accidental typo of your member name was corrected in my post above, deeply sorry, that's why i usually cut/paste. Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000, we have basically the same nostalgia and use case (old Windows, Devuan). Windows 98 puts me in my happy place. At present all other OS are for functionality. Avoiding systemd is important here too. Hi @UCyborg, stay positive. Agree, seems almost all online conversation is pointless and cruel. In the end we both use and appreciate GNU/Linux tools. Torvalds says lots of things. My impression is he meant 'Linux as a desktop' never made it big, not that it doesn't work. To me it's a good thing, computing diversity is important. Someone ping all desktop environment developers, their software doesn't work. How does Torvalds complete his work, GNU/Linux desktop of course. OpenBSD wasn't meant as a 'desktop' either but it's trivial to set up. Torvalds also claimed he doesn't personally install Linux on his recent systems, does that mean all GNU/Linux installers are borked, no he's just a busy guy. Gates was misunderstood too, of course he knew computers need more memory than 640 KB, people didn't understand the subtlety of what he ws saying. GNU/Linux is fast, well i think so. Comparing apples and apples is difficult but in reality my old hardware runs modern GNU/Linux fine while any newer Windows wouldn't install or boot. To me a non-starter, it's actually asking the wrong question. Comparing graphics and such in video games, that's different. Pretty safe to say graphic 'gaming' is most optimized for Windows. You would notice, i might not.

Hi all. Discussion already morphed into GNU/Linux bashing and distro-hopping. GNU/Linux develops a free system without expectation of reward and users complain. Windows claims to never require another updated OS, they update anyway and users oblige :( For best success recommend a GNU/Linux distribution with the largest repository. Debian-based has good package management, dependency hell is rare, typically only custom software installs. Some custom software installs, like Firefox or SeaMonkey, are as simple as cut/paste, create symlink in a path directory. Just launch with 'ldd application_name' in a terminal to find out what's missing. If a different dependency version is needed, sometimes a symlink works, custom compile or switch to an older/newer release. Many issues are often Windows users trying to make GNU/Linux like Windows. It's not, learn to use GNU/Linux software, it's good too, just different, adjust your mindset. @UCyborg, yes similar error with Firefox 78, as mentioned 'Suspect there's code base specific to newer processors, even though compiled with non-SSE2 flags'. Haven't found an about:config option that helps. Still amazing it works at all, as Firefox officially dropped non-SSE2 GNU/Linux support at v52. My next multi-boot Windows 98 will have SSE2, all i want is latest SeaMonkey. @Gansangriff, Dillo and Links2 are used by choice. Before customized Arora but i tired of compiling. Netsurf was trialed several times, lots of time was spent testing browsers and i settled on the ones mentioned earlier. The link you provided @UCyborg 'there's still A LOT to improve in the Linux world', link title and emphasis yours. The root URL of the author's site also has articles on 'Why Windows 10 Sucks...', 'Why Windows 11 Sucks...', 'Why Android sucks...', etc. If it sucked that much the author wouldn't use it. Regardless all software sucks, that's the way it goes. Reading the article leads one to believe that GNU/Linux barely boots. IMHO spreading FUD or at best too much negative energy 'stirring the pot'. All i can say are my experiences. Here GNU/Linux is used as primary OS for >15 years. I've run numerous distributions, helped with development, forums/wikis. Probably my needs are simple, which minimizes issues. It was used for years on my business systems, performed like a champ: file sharing, fax and print server, office documents, email and web, data encryption and backup. Sometimes hardware needs to be swapped out when setting up a new (used) system, hasn't a Windows user ever needed to do this? Although reportedly supported, including an official driver, one of my Windows 98 network cards was swapped out last year to fix a stubborn shutdown hang (Windows 98 hung, not GNU/Linux). Much GNU/Linux discussion revolves around drivers. The argument goes both ways, however, so to me they cancel out. Microsoft doesn't develop most hardware drivers, vendors do. Most vendors don't provide GNU/Linux drivers, smart hackers need to develop themselves, imagine who has the harder job. Large vendors, like HP, typically provide hardware drivers for one or two Windows releases. When the user upgrades Windows OS their motherboards, graphic hardware and peripherals, like printers and scanners, often become obsolete. Most of my free hardware pickups are from Windows users who 'upgraded' the operating system. I can install modern GNU/Linux today on 1 - 20+ year old hardware and it works. This multi-boot thread is in the Windows 9x section for a reason. Could someone please find Windows Vista, 7, 8, 10 or 11 drivers that support this old hardware? That's really the point. Take 20 year old hardware and multi-purpose it for continual use. Otherwise it would be in storage, waiting for the perfect weekend to hook up and play Windows 98 - probably wouldn't happen. Now i can boot Windows 98 every day, play, learn and enjoy. Then quick reboot to complete 'modern' tasks.

There's a lot of GNU/Linux mis-information on this forum, understandably i guess being primarily about Microsoft products. It seems this is mostly from users with failed install attempts or who have not taken the time to learn the system. Of course, it's not Windows. If someone grew up knowing nothing but GNU/Linux then Windows would be foreign too. To me just to clarify some of the mis-information. No it's not hard to install, graphic installers available, faster than most Windows installs. No need to grab drivers from all over the internet. Most drivers are located in the kernel and additional drivers are easy to install. You can even take a drive from a GNU/Linux system and plug it into different, compatible hardware and it should boot, maybe minor /etc/fstab re-configuration. You will never get intentionally locked out of your system (eg activation) and your hardware will never intentionally get left behind. Thousands of repository packages available centrally, more trusted and no need to hunt around. No central registry to get messed up, just remove undesired packages and delete the configurations. GNU/Linux does not break your sound card or monitor, cause overheating or high CPU usage, $whatever. If there's an issue it's usually either kernel/hardware mis-match, mis-configuration or attempting to run software exceeding comfortable system specs. GNU/Linux is, of course, lighter than Windows 10 and can easily be configured to run as light as Windows XP. Even Windows 9x, if you just want to browse with something like Dillo. Even DOS if you text-mode boot to TTY. There is no overall 'best' distribution, just 'best for your needs'. Recommend not spending too much time distribution-surfing, just install something and learn how it works. Once you know one distribution fairly well, the others are not that different. Once your knowledge base imroves 'expert' or 'netinstall' installations are recommended, as they provide full control over kernel and software choices. If someone is thinking of changing over, the learning curve can take a while (years) but there's helpful information on the interweb. Plus once it's learned, it's learned, benefit for life. Suggest a dual-boot to gradually learn the system. Just shrink the Windows partition and ensure the GNU/Linux system installs a boot loader, such as Grub2, to switch back and forth.

Just finished 'dist-upgrades' with my slower Windows 98 multi-boot (800 MHz, 384 MB RAM, 16 MB graphics, 6 GB partition) from Devuan Jessie -> ASCII -> Beowulf. Minor configuration issues each upgrade, fixed. An SSE2 capable system would be an ideal dual-boot with Windows 98 to run the latest web browsers. Unfortunately this system doesn't support SSE2, so it's using last supported SeaMonkey v2.49.4 and Firefox v52 (manual install). It's also running Firefox ESR v78.15.0, compiled by Debian without SSE2 requirement. This ESR release is, however, buggy with occasional tab crashes. Suspect there's code base specific to newer processors, even though compiled with non-SSE2 flags. Dillo is my daily use, non-JavaScript browser of choice. On old hardware ensure any full featured web browser has the ability to selectively block most JavaScript (eg NoScript) or it will cripple the system. Each 'dist-upgrade' was slightly more heavy, larger kernel, software upgrades. So recommend finding the sweet spot between hardware support and latest desired software. This Devuan Beowulf install has graphics, window manager, sound, music player, mplayer video, four web browsers, two file managers, recent Bash and Python, yt-dlp. Entire hard drive footprint is 3.2 GB. Posted from 20 year old hardware running Firefox v78 :)

Defrag Defrag [Drive] /All /F /U /Q /P /Concise /Detailed /Noprompt /Pmioctl /Sageset:x /SageRun:x /Mwmem /Task:x &ltnothing> Starts a UI to defragment drives Drive Drive to defrag /All Defragment all local, non-removable drives. /F Defragment files and free space. /U Defragment files only. /Q Defragment free space only. /P System and hidden files will be optimized. Be very careful. Reboot after use. Dangerous on drives that hold drive space container files /Concise Display the Hide Details view (Default). /Detailed Display the Show Details view. /Noprompt Unattended mode; do not stop and display confirmation messages. /Pmioctl Turns off use of the protected-mode IOCTL from Drvspacx.vxd. /sageset:x Display the System Agent-Aware Setting dialog box and store the settings in the SETx registry key. /Sagerun:x Runs in unattended mode using the System Agent-aware settings in the SETx registry key. /MWMEM /TASK:x Defrag supports the command line options from Dos 6.22, however they appear not to do anything. Some of them are from Norton's Utilities and didn't do anything in Dos 6.22 either. /B /SN Old sort by Name /SE Old sort by Extension /SD Old sort by Date /SS Old sort by Size /H Defrag hidden files /NOIO /RESCAN /CVF /NCD /DT HELP, SKIPHIGH, NOALTKEY BW, LCD, HERC, NOZOOM, G0, G1, G2 Old display and mouse options MULTITASK

Thanks all. Misunderstanding, as mentioned above left click wore out months earlier, which is expected. Your explanation for premature right-click failure makes sense in some cases @RainyShadow but not this overworked mouse. Generally i think it's best to use old hardware frequently, it sometimes fails sitting in storage anyway. Some solder in a new microswitch when mouse clicks start to fail. Makes sense if you have a parts mouse and want to fix an old favourite. Maybe even pro-actively swap microswitches (left/right), like rotating tires. In my case it's not the microswitch, rather plastic wear underside of the mouse buttons where they contact the microswitch. One or two layers thick of scotch tape is enough to restore good click action. Thanks for the feedback @Mr.Scienceman2000, no free Norton explains why cheap me doesn't have any. Setting up a fileserver doesn't interest me but i would be happy to provide share-able items if someone hosts. I remember the Xbox was probably the most 'computer' of the gaming consoles. I heard some installed GNU/Linux on Playstation but that doesn't interest me anymore. My old Playstation 2 almost never gets used, only as a DVD player. Never liked the analogue controllers, which seem to fail (die) for no good reason. Asked an electronics store employee a couple years ago if they still sold Playstation 2 controllers, he thought i was from the stone age. I don't purchase online so desires need to be local. Hi @Gansangriff, too bad most don't get that mice and most hardware is fixable. I was fortunate to have motivational experiences and a mentor at a younger age. When something breaks, what is there to lose. Just be careful you don't hurt yourself, me thinks. I don't work in automotives, my most stressful maintenance was replacing the timing belt on a Suzuki Sidekick, mistimed and may need to replace the engine. Agree it takes a bit to get used to some hardware quirks. For me your psychology approach works to some extent but when mashing buttons while gaming then it needs to work consistently, otherwise frustrating. ScanDisk with 'surface scan' was good. I'm experimenting with DEFRAG.EXE switches, probably do a new scenario with testing every few days, will report results later. Thus far the /H option (defrag hidden) made no difference. Windows 'Help' and 'DEFRAG.EXE /?' provide no assistance. Wonder if anyone ever used command line defrag from DOS v6 in Windows 98? I don't like running DEFRAG.EXE from Windows but it does not appear to allow a DOS mode option. Some command line switches are summarized at the site below. In RetroZilla use the NoScript extension to activate the domain to get the data. Will paste into next post in case the site goes down. One interesting note on the site, 'Defrag supports the command line options from Dos 6.22, however they appear not to do anything. Some of them are from Norton's Utilities and didn't do anything in Dos 6.22 either'. http://mvps.org/serenitymacros/winprogs.html

Thanks for responses. Security is definitely a marketing tool, usually claiming to be more convenient and secure, at the same time. Quick, cheap and good - typically only two options can be provided, exclusive of the third. I strive to be Person #3 @Mr.Scienceman2000 but fall short, at least that's realized. Norton Speedisk isn't licensed free, correct? If it is i will download and trial. Hi again @UCyborg. This multi-boot system restored the Windows 98 files from a Windows XP boot, cut/paste. IIRC this didn't result in fragmented files, it was Windows 98's DEFRAG.EXE option that shuffled things up. During DEFRAG output there are numerous blocks labelled 'shouldn't be moved' (or whatever) and i don't use swapfile, not sure if it's normal. Guess i could defrag the FAT partition from Windows XP or 2000, though as mentioned it seems something to do with Windows 98's DEFRAG.EXE. Maybe running 'surface scan' from Windows 98's ScanDisk will clear this up. Hi @DragonSC7601, thanks for your kind words. Like your avatar, never heard of Modern Talking, listening now, good stuff. Favourites for me of somewhat similar nature are Erasure, Crowded House, ABBA (new album out!), Depeche Mode and Kraftwerk. Poor Windows NT, probably didn't get much support as NT development was rapid during those years. This multi-boot has Windows 2000, don't own Windows NT, just liked using it at work years ago. I enjoy 2000's stability, elegance and the nostalgia but realize why i didn't use it long - doesn't do DOS, not as good for gaming, received less love and support than Windows XP. Yes lots of people contributed here, the tips and software have helped me run the best Windows 98 installs yet. I don't know of a better way to host files, other than this forum. The TinyUpload site seems gone, now those links are broken. If anyone knows an alternative that doesn't need JavaScript for Windows 9x users let me know. FYI RetroZilla can login and use this forum without JavaScript, think file downloads too. Right-click on my 20 year old PS2 rollerball mouse started failing. Previously the left click button was fixed with scotch tape, inner workings, to compensate for plastic wear against the micro-switch. Now the right-click mechanism has two pieces of tape. The left-click fix lasted many months before tape re-application. Nothing's forever but this mouse has limped along for years and functions perfect again, even for gaming. Sometimes people mention replacing their mice every 6-12 months, give me a break. By the time a couple Modern Talking tracks have played the mouse is fixed. Got some soldering practice, good prep for a future Pentium 4 motherboard owner. The AV cable connector on my Sega Genesis main board had a cracked solder, fixed. Now Formula 1 skies are always blue, no longer fluctuate green, just like real life, right?

This faster Windows 98 SE install had sluggish performance and excess hard drive thrashing. First, drive DMA was not enabled by default. Enabled and rebooted with improvement. More important 3rd party VoptXP (recommended earlier) and Diskeeper Lite confirmed significant drive fragmentation. This was a hacked install, my first using > 512 MB RAM, various configurations and experiments, create/delete swapfile, etc. The install was also restored from backup at least once (cut/paste from Windows XP). Both Windows 98 and ME DEFRAG.EXEs organized the files one way. Then 3rd party software like VoptXP and Diskeeper Lite confirmed significant fragmentation and re-organize the filesystem, fixing the drive thrash. Unfortunately rerunning Windows DEFRAG.EXE then disorganized the files again. In Windows DEFRAG.EXE selecting 'Rearrange program files so my programs start faster' was the culprit and according to VoptXP caused fragmentation, confirmed with thrashy performance. This is silly, as my older Windows 98 system has this checked off and everything is fine. It would be nice to figure this out but for now everything is defragged and the thrashing is fixed. An old thread seemed to suggest a manual fix by moving all files off the partition then back, unfortunately this didn't work. So for me if Windows 98 is thrashy-trashy, even after leaning out configuration and ruling out other issues, use a defrag program that provides a summary of fragmentation to help diagnose the issue. Though recommended here in an old thread, Diskeeper Lite v7.0.418.0L was removed. It's nagware for full version upgrade is tolerable. It's intrusive, however, and without notification creates an AUTOEXEC.BAT entry, system startup entry, runs as a background service and hijacks Windows DEFRAG.EXE from C: Properties -> Tools tab -> Defragmentation Status -> Defragment Now. I've never seen a single application create so many registry entries. Recommend a registry backing up before trialing this monster. 'SCANREG /RESTORE' was used to avoid Diskeeper Lite entries. Despite increasing MaxBackupCopies to 10 in C:/WINDOWS/SCANREG.INI, 'SCANREG /RESTORE' only provides a selection of the most recent five. To go back further manual manipulation of C:\WINDOWS\SYSBCKUP\RB00*.CAB files may be needed. Selecting Pause and Exit during the DEFRAG.EXE process may not be as safe as once thought. Several programs needed re-install due to breakage. In all fairness probably more likely from restoring an old registry during a period of much system configuration. All good now, Windows 9x is so fixable. In Windows XP i feel lost and in GNU/Linux i'm digging through forum posts and manual pages for solutions.

Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000. I'm beginning to realize nothing is all that secure anyway. What's the point of security conscious OpenBSD users running Intel ME (IME) hardware or someone feeling secure while using a Chromebook, direct assimilation interface. Most modern software is so complex, more potential for bugs and security holes. Maybe the most secure is compiling and configuring a custom OS offline (eg. Tiny Core Linux build) and then running it as a non-writeable CD boot with no persistent OS changes during an internet session. But really, how crazy, can't bookmark sites or easily save files or updated information. Everything still gets tracked anyway via Internet Service Provider and whoever else may want to intercept or listen. Texts and emails get scanned for keywords, etc. The simplicity of DOS (single user, direct interface, no registry) to me is elegant and magic. In the Beginning... Was the Command Line - Neal Stephenson Watched an interesting video, someone installed Windows 98 onto a 2019 laptop. He needed to use SETUP.EXE switches, HimemX and other tricks. Technically the system installed but performance was abysmal as the hardware was restricted without proper Windows 98 drivers for ethernet and graphics, etc. Still an interesting experiment.

The download link for @Siria's 'stylekiller.kmm' on page one no longer works, direct download link below. K-Meleon is more functional with it as many web pages don't render properly. IMHO StyleKiller combined with PDFCreator v0.8.0 is presently the best combo in vanilla Windows 98 for creating PDF documents from web pages. Though it takes extra effort to configure, this K-Meleon is arguably the best technical browser for vanilla Windows 98 at present too. http://kmeleonbrowser.org/forum/file.php?9,file=1767,filename=stylekiller.kmm

Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000, the 'Vanilla Windows 98 Web Browsing Summary' post was pasted as a new member project, probably most visible there. Took enough time to research, test and document the information, guess it qualifies as a project. I think most digging out these old systems will want to know if they are still (somewhat) capable online. Don't worry about your weather site, this stuff doesn't make sense to me either, Windows 98 still connects to most sites. The cURL executable from FreeDOS supports TLS 1.3,so there's hope. It may make a great web scraping batch script for collecting daily news, just load a packet driver and have some fun. Ironically, DOS networking presently gets more developer love than Windows 9x.

Please post news and queries on the applicable web browser thread if possible. Feel free to report additional browsers found, with minimum TLS 1.2. Anyone who develops, compiles or reports a TLS 1.3 browser for DOS or Windows 9x will immediately go to the head of the class with much rejoicing. Thanks.

=== Vanilla Windows 98 Web Browsing Summary === == Web Browsers == Windows 98 had many cool web browsers though most are now non-functional due to lack of support for HTTPS website connectivity. Fortunately several browsers have been updated with TLS 1.2 support (Transport Layer Security) allowing them to connect to almost all HTTPS sites - for now :) Note these old browsers do not display most web pages as intended, use work arounds outlined in the threads, and will not process JavaScript correctly even causing crashes, recommend disabling JavaScript. The list is sorted alphabetically, they are all quite functional. Arachne for DOS with TLS 1.3 hack Modify Arachne for TLS support as a tinker project, not for serious browsing. https://msfn.org/board/topic/182432-arachne-web-browser-community-edition-for-dos-with-tls-13-hack/ K-Meleon Forum member @roytam1's K-Meleon v1.5.4 fork. A nice, lean and configurable browser. Note not tested on a virgin vanilla Windows 98 install, should be okay though. https://msfn.org/board/topic/181726-k-meleon-tls-12-in-vanilla-windows-98-se Links for DOS A very functional graphic or text only web browser for DOS, configure as desired. Has been receiving periodic updates. Recently logged in to an HTML only Gmail account and successfully sent an email attachment - long live DOS. https://msfn.org/board/topic/181853-links-web-browser-community-edition-for-dos-with-tls-12 Lynx for DOS A text only browser with a long history, since 1994, ported to DOS. https://msfn.org/board/topic/182400-lynx-web-browser-community-edition-for-dos-with-tls-12/ Netscape Navigator Netscape Navigator v9.0.0.6, based on Firefox 2. https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-vanilla-windows-98-in-2020/page/33/?tab=comments#comment-1189098 RetroZilla based on Firefox Forum member @roytam1's RetroZilla browser based on Firefox 2, labelled 'Firefox Community Edition'. Note not tested on a virgin vanilla Windows 98 install, should be okay though. https://o.rthost.win/gpc/files1.rt/rzbrowser-tls12-20180504.7z RetroZilla based on SeaMonkey The 'RetroZilla Community Edition' member project, which includes both @rn10950's and @roytam1's RetroZilla build information, based on old SeaMonkey v1.1.19. https://msfn.org/board/topic/181416-retrozilla-community-edition == Bonus == Custom userContent.css A custom userContent.css to improve web page rendering in older browsers (K-Meleon, Netscape Navigator, RetroZilla), especially this forum. https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-vanilla-windows-98-in-2020-and-beyond/page/52/?tab=comments#comment-1206351 Invidious An easy way to get YT access on retro systems, no JavaScript needed (tested 28Nov2021). https://api.invidious.io/ Quick and Dirty YouTube Small script to download most YouTube videos, note YouTube throttles download speed. https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-vanilla-windows-98-in-2020-and-beyond/page/41/?tab=comments#comment-1199455 Quick and Dirty MSN Video Small script to download most MSN Videos. https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-vanilla-windows-98-in-2020-and-beyond/page/41/?tab=comments#comment-1199501 Windows 9x Web Helper (9xweb) - DISCONTINUED uses Cygwin helper software, still works well for personal projects. A Bash script that runs from a COMMAND.COM window. Designed to improve internet accessibility, such as easy cache page access, custom Wayback Machine date search for old URLs, search and fetch YouTube video, etc. https://msfn.org/board/topic/181417-windows-9x-web-helper-9xweb

Hi @diovanti. Probably not what you want but it may meet the criteria. My 'Modern Web Browser Emulation' project (page 21 of the Vanilla Windows 98 thread) used old QEMU v0.8.2. Seems TinyUpload terminated, believe this old QEMU was salvaged from Damn Small Linux. Not sure this will work if Windows 3.11 used packet drivers (networking simultaneously with Windows 98).

Live long ad prosper Windows XP. My first Windows was 98 SE in 1999. Around 2002 a carload of old hardware and some software was picked up from a guy who needed to quickly move out of province. This included Windows 2000 Pro and Windows XP Pro. Unfortunately the Windows XP disc was gouged and it was not possible to complete a proper install. So i used Windows 2000 for a while, then finally figured out a reasonable workaround to install Windows XP. Install Windows 2000 first, inplace upgrade to Windows XP. Damaged files that could not be copied from the Windows XP disc were skipped, the Windows 2000 install had most of these files anyway, then Service Packs and security updates fetched whatever (important) files were needed. Windows XP is solid and will be used here for a long time. My better half uses it with a lot of favourite old graphic software (eg. PrintMaster Platinum, PrintMaster Gold). It's still possible to find used but decent working printers. It plays most of my old games, aside from DOS. It was still used last year for income tax preparation (fingers crossed). In 2006 my systems switched to GNU/Linux, and i won't upgrade Windows after XP, but most systems in the house still multi-boot something DOS or old Windows. Edit: Wasn't Windows XP the last system Bill Gates was personally involved, maybe i'm wrong, didn't look it up.

The 'Vanilla Windows 98 Web Browsing Summary' post was updated, several links added to bonus section. All major links from this post re-tested for browser downloads, etc. - Custom userContent.css - Quick and Dirty YouTube - Quick and Dirty MSN Video https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-vanilla-windows-98-in-2020-and-beyond/page/33/?tab=comments#comment-1189203 If setting up or restarting a DOS or vanilla Windows 9x system, this post contains valuable information to get started with 'modern' browsing. For anyone new, this vanilla Windows 9x thread contains additional scattered information on other network related topics such as firewall, streaming music, online video fetch and playback, FTP and Gopher protocols, etc.

The RetroZilla Search Engine Collection was updated, linked on the first post of this thread. Note Dogpile and Startsearch require the User Agent Extension, one of the built-in user agents should work or add another like Firefox 60, example: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/60.0.2 Added FrogFind! http://www.frogfind.com Added Mojeek https://www.mojeek.com

For sure on IME @Mr.Scienceman2000, vulnerabilities have been found. Plus if the hacker requires hands-on, how many of us have acquired used hardware without knowing who handled it. Good for you with the walking. I cycled to work for a few years, winter too -30 Celcius, until it became impractical. IMHO if people truly realized how much energy it takes to get from A -> B, or how much more energy is needed even to carry an extra 10 kg, maybe they would drive (or fly) less (or not). To me the world is doomed, i still do my part but have no optimism. We're all food containers, consumptive until we die. The best people can do to counter climate change is nothing. Technology or government policy isn't going to be enough. Truly, stay at home, have less kids, retire early, eat less, plant trees, enjoy low impact activities, turn down the heat and lights, low energy computing, shop local, don't buy new stuff. Not even the worst pandemic in 100 years slowed things down, more busy-work than ever. I often watch old television (1970s). In no particular order, drug abuse, police brutality, crime, racism, pollution, corruption. Most of this is worse than ever, we've been talking in circles for at least 50 years. "Net zero, blah, blah, blah. Climate neutral, blah, blah, blah. This is all we hear from our so-called leaders: words -- words that sound great but so far has led to no action," said Thunberg. "Our hopes and dreams drown in their empty words and promises." - Greta Thunberg For a while YouTube has been throttling download speed. This affects the Quick and Dirty YouTube script (eg. 740 kb/s down to 50 kb/s) and my personal 9xweb script. It will also affect the Mega-pack (can't remember proper name) available here for kernel extension users, since youtube-dl has not been updated for several months. Fortunately yt-dlp works using an Android API work-around but requires a newer version of Python, most applicable to newer Windows or GNU/Linux users.

The thread was confusing for @roytam1's download link for RetroZilla, below and added to footnote [3] of the first post. http://o.rthost.win/gpc/files1.rt/retrozilla-suite-tls12-20200131.7z Still awaiting an official updated build from @rn10950.

Thanks for responses. FrogFind! now indicates 'Powered by DuckDuckGo' @Gansangriff, don't remember seeing that before. Seems the developer used your work or noted your concern (http://frogfind.com/). Search results are wonky, same 'Pentium 4' string in 3 engines, first 3 'hits'. Unfortunately FrogFind failed to load the linked CPU-world and CPU-upgrade pages, hopefully the conversion engine is still in development. FrogFind! 1. Wikipedia 2. CPU-world 3. CPU-upgrade DuckDuckGo 1. Wikipedia 2. Intel.com 3. Newegg.com Google 1. Wikipedia Featured snippet Smallbusiness.chron.com Featured snippet Extremetech.com Featured snippet Answers.microsoft.com Featured snipped Forums.tomshardware.com Google image links 2. Ebay 3. Intel.com Thanks for the Opensearch information, visited your site. Opensearch and Amazon, who would have guessed. The RetroZilla Search Engine Collection includes Wiby (Search Engine for the Classic Web). Someday i should add FrogFind! (FrogFind search engine for vintage computers. Love the frog. Be the frog.) and Mojeek (web search engine that provides unbiased, fast, and relevant search results combined with a no tracking privacy policy). For old systems that will never have HTTPS access FrogFind! remains a gem. Thanks for the computer offer. For environmental reasons i no longer fly and only used 3 tanks of gas in the pickup truck last year. Tip: Keep the gas tank at least half full to prevent fuel pump overheat and keep sediment out of the engine. Wish i could garbage pick for computer parts too, envious. I did, however, get a free HP Deskjet F4480 printer today. Initial testing the cartridges may be salvagable. Now i have two working HP F4480s and two Canon MX310 printers for Windows 2000, Windows XP and GNU/Linux. One of the 'Pentium 4' Google search snippets above included 'Why was the Pentium 4 so bad?'. Why the heck am i searching for this hardware. Oh yeah, no IME, thanks Intel. First attempting to disable IME may brick your computer, which now works perfectly fine. Secondly, not being a computer expert, i wouldn't trust the 'fix' anyway (more of a hack). Intel you broke my trust, wise-up and stop producing garbage in this security-conscious era. My Windows 2000 system is half setup now. When installing the Nvidia ForceWare driver i tried to simply install from an *.inf file pointer but that didn't work, so the whole ForceWare shebang got installed. Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000, didn't know DuckDuckGo had a Yahoo affiliation. Agree, Google is very good at herding us sheeple.

Always something new in old Windows land. Came across this local buy/sell ad the other day. Guess somebody wants a turnkey system for parallel port hardware plus more. Probably had flashbacks from the last time he/she installed such a system from scratch. Desktop PC with Windows 98 or 95 I am looking for a working desktop computer with windows 98 or 95 installed and working. Must have the following. 1. Functioning parallel port 2. Video card with VGA port. 3. Floppy disk drive 4. Mouse port 5. Working internal hard drive 100 MB minimum. Not that many years ago a slotcar buddy was running FreeDOS. Through his electronic wizardry he hooked up slotcar track sensors to a serial port for some DOS-based race timing software. Pretty nifty. FreeCell game #114 was a stumper.

== Custom userContent.css == A custom userContent.css file (3 KB) can be downloaded below (login required). It enhances the default stylesheet used by RetroZilla and other browsers that support a custom userContent.css file (eg. Firefox, K-Meleon, Netscape Navigator). Only tested on one system, one monitor resolution and two browsers (K-Meleon, RetroZilla). Place the file in the 'chrome' subdirectory (create if not present) of the browser's profile. In RetroZilla the default path is: C:\WINDOWS\Application Data\RetroZilla\Profiles\default\your_profile\chrome\userContent.css The first section is a code snippet from @Siria that displays sometimes hidden webpage output. This occurs on occasion, you will see a block of webpage surrounded by a two pixel thick dashed red line. The second section helps view and utilize this MSFN forum, entries are commented for editing, modify as desired. Just a hack so the forum works a bit better, it won't fix everything. MSFN forum enhancements: - Prevent off-screen text output. - Gray background to visualize white text, change lightgray to darkgray for nightmode. - Box forum categories for better visualization (default blue). - Box forum thread topics for better visualization (default green). - Box member quotes for improved thread readability (default blue). - Box member signatures for improved thread readability (default yellow, must be logged in). - Shrink stretched/oversized member avatar images. - Remove duplicate member avatar images in thread posts. - Remove not useful mobile navigation clutter. - Display member menu when logged in, log out without toggling browser's Style to None. Note: It is still necessary to manually disable all 'style' to best visualize many problematic web pages. This often provides a cleaner layout and uncovers otherwise hidden text, pictures and hyperlinks. In RetroZilla toggle View -> Use style -> None and in K-Meleon use @siria's StyleKill macro (stylekiller.kmm). Review 'Vanilla Windows 98 Web Browsing Summary' for more Windows 9x web browsing information. https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-vanilla-windows-98-in-2020-and-beyond/page/33/?tab=comments#comment-1189203 userContent.css

Thanks for the inputs. Discussion went from System File Checker to ScanDisk to SCANREG, to me this makes more sense. A default startup entry is 'C:\WINDOWS\SCANREGW.EXE /autorun', welcome here. It completes in < 2 seconds when run manually and shouldn't appreciably slow startup time. SCANREG can also be disabled via 'MSCONFIG' -> Startup tab. If a system is perpetually running ScanDisk at every boot then that would be entirely different. I think Windows 98's biggest shortcoming is system instability and the clean shutdown issue contributes. Shutdown patch, hardware swapping, software configuration, so many potential solutions. A winning Windows 98 hardware/softare combination is a joy. Thanks for the Simcopter thumbs-up @UCyborg. The game plays great natively on my old hardware, someone revived it for Windows 10. I downloaded a fan compiled 5000 SimCity pack years ago and hope to eventually 'fly' through them all. It sounds like a lot but to me just set aside 5 minutes per city, fly around and complete a couple missons, decide if it's worth keeping. With Tiger Woods 99 i eventually played through about 250 mostly fan contributed courses, all enjoyable and they extend the game so much. There's nothing like computer gaming, so much out there, plenty of free stuff too if on a budget. My Windows XP system is only using NET Framework v2 and i have now toggled the service to manual, thanks. It is only used here for one application but when it's needed then it will be available. So many background services in Windows XP vs Windows 9x but that was also said when Vista came out and so on and so forth. Played some Formula 1 on Sega Genesis this weekend. There were issues, like the game would stall at the loading screen. Cartridge contacts need periodic cleaning with an alcohol swab, just like old computer parts. Something struck me, how a 'gamer' can remember every turn, bump and idiosyncrasy of a particular racetrack, even if they haven't played the game for several years. A few quick laps and it's all familiar again. Have fun with your hardware @Mr.Scienceman2000. To me working with hardware or software are equally rewarding. This faster Windows 98 hardware has sensors so i can monitor temperatures, fan RPM and voltages. AIDA32 has now become even more useful. The download link from @Siria on page 44 of this thread still works, in RetroZilla View -> Style -> None to get the link. A BIOS temperature alarm was set for 66 Celcius and it went off yesterday during intensive computing. The case will likely be opened to improve air exchange, like most of my others, and AIDA should help monitor progress.

Hi @RainyShadow, maybe but it doesn't make sense either. AutoScan in MSDOS.SYS sets ScanDisk run options for improper shutdown, not every boot: https://www.computerhope.com/msdossys.htm Following proper shutdown ScanDisk doesn't automatically run next boot, confirmed with another BOOTLOG.TXT and a step-by-step confirmation boot. So this shouldn't affect normal startup and a sane default would be AutoScan=1 or AutoScan=2 to maintain the filesystem. I backed up this system's original MSDOS.SYS file and AutoScan=1 is default.