NoelC

Thanks for the feedback. The light text on dark background better matches Microsoft's Metro/Modern-App-In-A-Window black background look (though I can't understand why they had to deviate from the standard theme). I also find it helps differentiate window titles from typical text inside windows. I just wish the theme atlas could apply to the ribbon-enabled windows, such as File Explorer and Wordpad. At some point maybe I'll try out full theme customization. I've got to tell you - I can't STAND the "borderless" look, mostly because I find the border actually gives me a visual target to position the mouse for window sizing. As you've probably noticed, with my "faux" approach the borders are not made translucent, but are actually partially transparent. They're so small the difference is almost inconsequential. Almost. They seem to work best when the Aero Glass Opacity is set to about 40%. I'd also like inactive windows to be darker, and to be fair I've managed to get 'em a bit darker than the screen grab above, but to me they still seem a little light (in Win 8 I have them nearly fully transparent and I like that the inactive windows are even less "stand out" in appearance than I've managed to get the ones in Win 10). I'm not sure I'm happy with such large sized drop shadows just yet. I may try experimenting with smaller ones. Here's a copy of the box-stock Windows 10 build 9879 theme atlas, if you'd like to fool with it. It can be extracted from resource 1205 in Aero.msstyle... http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/ForumPosts/Win10/Win10_Build_9879_Theme_Atlas.png I've put an updated theme atlas online. Just a little tidying up and tuning. Now it looks more integrated around the top corners. I tried a whole lot of ways to make the minimize and maximize buttons look better, and I could not find anything I liked better than this. http://Noel.ProDigitalSoftware.com/ForumPosts/Win10/FauxBordersRoundedCorners.png I find the above to work best with these registry settings: Some alternates: A Theme Atlas, similar to the above, but which does NOT add any color to the title bar or borders - i.e., does not assume a blue color. http://Noel.ProDigit...lessBorders.png This still has a dark "glow" for white title text. I think that really fits with the look of it, but would anyone want a variant where the glow behind the title is light (for dark text)? And for those who like dark text... Colorless borders with a light title glow: http://Noel.ProDigit...rsWhiteGlow.png -Noel

Yes, I have the latest updates, including optional KB3000850, running fine on two systems. I wonder, though, if Microsoft's servers are becoming overwhelmed... Imagine loading hundreds of megabytes to hundreds of megapeople. You should check your servicing database integrity. This command detects and corrects corruption locally if possible: SFC /SCANNOW This command will use online resources (assuming they're not overwhelmed) to try to correct the corruption if the above command can't do it. After running DISM you may have to run the SFC command above again. DISM /Online /Cleanup-Image /RestoreHealth Good luck. Agree, 100%. I have complained to them and have been told they're going to try to document the most common errors. As though anything short of full documentation of every possible event would be enough. Most event log entry links still return pages like this: -Noel

I can only suggest trying again. I've had test systems where I've had to restart DWM a number of times before the symbols loaded correctly. I think the problem must be that with all the updates Microsoft's servers are probably becoming overwhelmed. I got the update when it was not very old and probably not that many people were hitting the servers yet. That being said, post the relevant portions of your debug.log file to make sure something else is not going wrong. BigMuscle, I suggest that if you want to change your software to restart DWM, that you please do it 1) only if you detect hybrid boot and 2) only on a particular setting in the registry (which may be the default). As someone who has no need for the restart (because of having disabled hybrid boot, which honestly is the REAL solution here), I know I would not appreciate it if DWM were restarted forcibly when it didn't need to be. -Noel

Another good reason to disable that "secret hibernation" garbage. If You Have Problems With Hybrid Boot Your computer or installed software may not be able to support Windows 8 "Fast Startup" and you may want to disable it. To disable it you can do the following: • Start the Power Options control panel. • Click the Choose what the power button does link. • Click the Change settings that are currently unavailable link. • Uncheck [ ] Turn on fast startup (recommended). -Noel

What a refreshing post! Thank you, jaclaz. But uh oh, now we're dealing in subtlety, and modern marketing has made sure that most people not directly involved in high tech can no longer perceive many things at a subtle level. If you're not hit over the head with blazing color, giant fonts, and sound at 100+ dB level it doesn't exist. I'm glad to be among folks here who can still see and hear and derive obvious - if subtle - things. Speaking of... The Model... How many folks besides those of us in the industry thought that this ridiculous concept of releasing things on a much shorter schedule (i.e., a new version of Windows yearly with minor updates every few months) - adopted not only by Microsoft but also by Adobe and probably others - was a %*#$&^ horrible idea? That may well be the root of the problem with the current Model. How is it Microsoft gets rid of the upper-management who thought of such stupidity, but can't let go of the stupidity itself? -Noel I'd suggest changing the Windows Update settings so that it does NOT install things on its own. That's doable with every version except Windows 10 TP (Toilet Paper edition). -Noel By the way, near as I can tell, Avast has not yet released their fix they promised for this morning. -Noel

My theme atlas file reopens automatically for me just fine on reboot - on two different systems with KB3000850 installed. Aero glass seems to work perfectly with KB3000850 here, but it's such a complex update I wouldn't say that means it will work for everyone. I see that in the log from 412070391 it shows the first resource load missing the file name: [2014-11-21 13:12:57][0x1A40:0x998] Atlas resource loading (custom: ) 412070391, double check your registry entries. Which key are you using to specify the theme atlas, the one in HKLM or HKCU? I have mine in HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\DWM. -Noel

Don't you usually have to start with a Good Idea when starting over from scratch, though? Microsoft doesn't really get to do Windows 1.0, 2.0, etc. over again. Serious computer applications are complex.... Because they have to be to be serious! -Noel

Thanks, but the intent is to be able to do multiple things simultaneously and see them all at once. I don't ever just run one thing at a time, and I have a lot of monitors. A powerful feature of Windows is in being able to set up a lot of tools then use them creatively in combination. Switching to another user / desktop / full-screen app is simply not my way of working. Ideally, with WIn 10 I'd love to be able to open any and all types of apps or applications side by side as needed in windows on the same desktop. -Noel

Yes, I understood that. Peoples comments about quality control, blah blah are probably pretty much meaningless, unless they're actually privy to the testing Microsoft does. As I illustrated, my choice in 3rd party antivirus packages was responsible for what appeared to be an update failure. Okay, you could say Microsoft should have tested with Avast before releasing the update, but how far should they be expected to go with testing 3rd party software? By the way Avast has announced that they're going to have a fix for the problem by tomorrow. -Noel

That's a bit tough to answer... I'd have to ask, "For whom?" For a large number of people? From my perspective the real problems I can remember personally experiencing with Windows Updates this year are: My servicing database going corrupt, which I corrected with a DISM command. I can imagine this kind of thing probably compounded most folks' trouble with subsequent updates, as I doubt many do SFC checks regularly and the corruption remained. The incompatibility of Avast antivirus with the KB3000850 November Roll-Up last night on my test VM. Once I got past that (and I've been looking for an excuse to remove Avast anyway as it is also a train wreck in progress) I haven't had any problems. I worked successfully with KB3000850 installed on my main workstation all day today. From someone's perspective, somewhere, I believe every update must have had a downside. People do odd things with their computers, install junkware, screw up configurations... But widespread problems? How can anyone really tell how many or widespread? Stuff gets media attention sometimes for no reason, and other times real problems go unheralded. We certainly can't derive much from online complaints... Someone's always complaining about a problem they have somewhere. Sometimes a lot of folks are vocal about things, while still a majority of folks aren't having problems. I have heard that there are Avast users for whom KB3000850 hasn't broken a thing. Thing is, trust in updates - like trust in anything - is built up slowly over time, and can be lost easily. It really boils down to this: Is Microsoft adding value for you by changing your software after you have put it in place, or are they causing loss of value by screwing things up. My own personal judgement is that they're still adding value for me, which is why I keep my systems up to date. -Noel Edit: Oh, and I wanted to add... What's this BS about major roll-up updates being optional? Is this some kind of statement by Microsoft that they don't want to be held responsible for the problems they introduce?

Kind of a shame there won't be another one soon, since there are problems with it... For one thing, GDI resources leak like mad if a progress indicator is put up on the Taskbar and updated. For another, there are many operations that cause the This PC icon to be duplicated into many copies across the desktop. That this may be the last Technical Preview could also say that the feature set (what feature set?) is nearly complete, and that borderless windows may be here to stay. That is disturbing. -Noel

I simply can't stand UAC. It's a poor implementation of a questionable idea, and certainly doesn't protect *me* from anything. All it manages is to protect my work from getting done. Up to now - from Vista through Win 8.1 - I've been running with EnableLUA set to 0, which causes a system to run the way a computer expert would want it to run. No prompts to distract, no file system or registry virtualization to magically grab things and send them somewhere else. In short, the system just works. The hindrances other people have quietly gotten used to I have chosen not to. Every time I use a UAC-enabled system it's plain they are not insignificant. With Win 8 and newer, Microsoft has added an arbitrary requirement to block the running of Metro/Modern Apps if UAC is disabled as I mentioned above. So far I really have not needed (nor actually wanted) any of the useless Metro/Modern toy apps. Life's been good - Windows 8.1 is a dandy system for doing serious computing tasks when set up for serious work this way. However, with the Win 10 trial, I've wanted to keep UAC enabled, (EnableLUA set to 1) to allow the use of the Windows Feedback App. And so I'm trying - as I have done with every version since Vista - to see how unobtrusive UAC can be made. This has involved: Dragging the "UAC prompt level" slider to the bottom.Setting the things I run (when possible) to Run As Administrator via attribute. Even with the above, on a PITA scale of 1 to 10, it still clocks in at about a 3, while having EnableLUA set to 0 defines the low end of the scale. There are still "oops, can't get there from here" situations that crop up, and the file system and registry virtualizations still bite at one's anatomy occasionally. If I end up adopting Windows 10, I will quite likely set EnableLUA to 0, based on what I know now. By the way, I know there are some workarounds - for example, one obvious way is to run a virtual machine with UAC still enabled for doing the occasional Metro/Modern thing while having the main system set properly. Now with Win 10 putting them in Windows, things like VMware Unity might even make it possible for them to show right on the UAC-disabled desktop. But workarounds have their own difficulties, and a system that just works in an integrated way is a good goal. So... Who's found a way to set EnableLUA to 0 and still use Metro/Modern Apps? Surely with all the smart people out in the world figuring out Windows' internals, someone must dislike UAC as much as I do. -Noel

Points taken (and you'll note I did edit the post following the first request to do so). We just remember to thank our favorite Gods for life being good when talking about the subtleties of forum use can occupy a noticeable part of our days. -Noel

Rule 2.a is about "bumping" threads. It's pretty clear that wasn't what I was doing. What I was posting was a blow by blow description of what I was learning about this update, in the fond hope of bringing the latest possible information to people as soon as I learned it, and maybe saving them a bit of trouble. You should be expected to see the difference between that and "bumping" a thread (for what reason, I can't imagine; I wasn't asking anything, I was telling). -Noel

There's a pretty big thread on the Avast forum about this update being incompatible with Avast... https://forum.avast.com/index.php?topic=160717.0 One user claims that having installed the update first, THEN installing Avast (i.e., having completely removed Avast before installing the update) he is up and running. I question whether he's rebooted afterward, though. -Noel

Unfortunately, Microsoft is all about doing that lately. -Noel

I just noticed another new quirk... I can no longer copy text inside a VMware Workstation VM running the updated system and paste it outside the VM. Looks like some part of the VMware Tools package might have been broken by the update. I have tried a repair of VMware Tools to no benefit. I may try a complete removal / reinstall... Edit: Completely shutting down VMs and closing and restarting VMware Workstation has corrected this. -Noel

After dealing with an Avast antivirus compatibility issue, I can happily report that Aero Glass is working with Windows 8.1.2, which is what I'm calling Windows 8.1 with KB3000850 (the optional November Rollup). Note that new symbols were downloaded automatically, so users who don't have a donation.key should be aware that they'll have to download the new symbols themselves. [2014-11-19 08:36:15][0x174:0xCA8] SYMSRV: dwmcore.pdb from http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols: 904180 bytes - [2014-11-19 08:36:15][0x174:0xCA8] 0 percent[2014-11-19 08:36:15][0x174:0xCA8] 0 percent[2014-11-19 08:36:16][0x174:0xCA8] 100 percent[2014-11-19 08:36:16][0x174:0xCA8] [2014-11-19 08:36:16][0x174:0xCA8] copied [2014-11-19 08:36:16][0x174:0xCA8] DBGHELP: dwmcore - private symbols C:\BIN\symbols\dwmcore.pdb\42D8A647D88746769C187162EF0BEAE42\dwmcore.pdb [2014-11-19 08:36:16][0x174:0xCA8] SYMSRV: uDWM.pdb from http://msdl.microsoft.com/download/symbols: 429929 bytes - [2014-11-19 08:36:16][0x174:0xCA8] 0 percent[2014-11-19 08:36:16][0x174:0xCA8] 0 percent[2014-11-19 08:36:17][0x174:0xCA8] 51 percent[2014-11-19 08:36:17][0x174:0xCA8] [2014-11-19 08:36:17][0x174:0xCA8] copied [2014-11-19 08:36:17][0x174:0xCA8] DBGHELP: udwm - public symbols C:\BIN\symbols\uDWM.pdb\153457D628204D88A67A6F9D60DD064E2\uDWM.pdb -Noel

I don't see how it matters, it's not like many other people are posting in here. I just figure people ought to know about the characteristics of the latest update as soon as possible - it might save them some headaches. But hey, if it makes you happy, feel free to merge my posts any time you see fit. Bottom line in this thread is this: If you have Avast antivirus, REMOVE IT COMPLETELY before installing KB3002340. -Noel

That's a very reasonable position. Contrast it to those who claim that you should love them and eschew all that has come before or "you're clearly unable to deal with change". Wake up, fanboys, getting on the bandwagon with Microsoft is not a sure path to success any more. They're not smarter than you! -Noel

I'm beginning to think it's not just ClassicShell that's broken. SHUTDOWN /R /T 0 just hangs. Unless my experience is somehow unique, this is another failed (big time) update from Microsoft. Not offhand, no. But beware, this update package may bork a working setup. I've not plumbed all the depths of it yet, but my Win 8.1 VM is now unusable. It won't save the user registry on shutdown or restart - it just hangs. I see Avast Antivirus, which was on task before the update, is not running. I'm trying to uninstall it, but without being able to complete a restart I'm at somewhat of a loss to be able to recover this VM. I may have to give up and revert it with a snapshot. Hm, I finally got the remnants of Avast removed, and other things - including Classic Shell - seem to work again. This could be good. -Noel

Wow, this optional update really has broken Classic Shell. Settings > Control panel hangs it for minutes. This was seen to pop up - note the disturbing "immersivecontrolpanel" term in the title bar... An attempt to log off or reboot causes this: -Noel

Observations: The install took quite a while - about 10 minutes on a fast machine. The VM rebooted quickly after the install, with no apparent problems. Symbols were already online for dwmcore.dll and uDWM.dll, and Aero Glass for Win 8.1 seems to work okay after auto-downloading them. The list of running processes after the system has settled seems about the same as before. I'm seeing some funkiness with Classic Shell, such as an inability to find some things (e.g., I searched for "device" and it did not turn up Device Manager). At the moment it's stuck with a menu open on screen just from clicking "Settings". UPDATE: It finally un-stuck itself, but an attempt to choose Restart yielded a brief popup stating "Unable to start program: CMD". Now the restart is taking a long time. More as I learn it! -Noel

The November update rollup is here for Windows 8.1. It's optional. And it's NOT required (as the Spring update was) in order to be able to get further updates. http://support.microsoft.com/kb/3000850 According to this article, a lot of things are fixed or improved. I'm putting it into my Windows 8.1 x64 test VM at the moment. And it's taking a looong time. The first $64,000 question is: Does it make an already stable system better? The second is: Why is the update optional? I'm going to try to answer the first question through testing before applying the update to my main workstation. But optional... Does Microsoft want us to take responsibility if it breaks things? Is this a subtle statement that they're not confident in the thing? -Noel

Brainwashing indeed! I'm beginning to think a majority of people may actually feel this way (that the removal of visual cues and flattening of everything is just plain silly), but the fashion industry is doing everything it can to marginalize common sense thinking. The funniest thing - and/or maybe the most frustrating - is when you come across someone who actually tries to tell you it's better. Makes you want to strangle them. Not a good feeling. I'm reminded a bit of the film "Demolition Man". -Noel