CharlotteTheHarlot

I believe there are, and SATA is definitely included if the Toshiba site is accurate ... Toshiba - Hard Drives - Software Utilities The 1st one is Windows ready. The 2nd one listed there is a DOS diagnostic so it requires you to create a DOS boot disk and they do not seem to have a pre-configured ISO to burn (which sucks because it is the only way to eliminate Windows as a variable). The 3rd is SCSI so just ignore. Read through this thread at SevenForums for some ideas. One person recommends using the Hitachi Drive Fitness Tool. I'll look around later and see if someone made a custom ISO for a bootable disc later. This thread has reminded me to update my own boot CD's with more current diags since all the HDD company consolidation (thanks a lot ! more stuff to do ). EDIT: Here is the direct download for the Hitachi DFT v4.16 (Drive Fitness Tool ) in an ISO for a bootable CD to test this disk drive ... https://www1.hgst.com/hdd/support/downloads/dft32_v416_b00.iso

Interesting thread Multibooter (like all the similar threads), you do good research and testing and should be writing hardware manuals. The "documentation" that ships these days could use such thorough treatment. Totally unrelated to the general discussion and it's probably nothing, but there looks to be sloppy soldering in that left picture. If problems ever arose I would zero in on that connector and reflow the cold solder joints.

Wow, very interesting development. For someone wanting to dabble with Win9x it is a godsend (new board with fresh capacitors, etc) and you could easily multi boot later OS's that recognize multi-core CPU's. Luckily the excellent i5 and i7 CPU's have gotten many people to buy entirely new systems so consequently there are some really great deals for used 775 Core2 chips to use in this board. No quad support though that I could see.

Please post the link to manufacturer page for the exact Acer laptop (no time to search right now). Oh, presumably you have a PDF of the exact manual, are you certain there are no built-in diagnostics? They are usually on a small hidden FAT partition accessible through F-keys at bootup similar to BIOS access.

Oh, a Laptop. My bad. Sorry for all the previous SATA ideas. Well a laptop makes data/power cable swapping impossible, but you should still have a spare HDD connector in there for a 2nd drive and this would still be a worthwhile test (swapping connectors). After moving the HDD to the other connector you should doublecheck in the BIOS that it is recognized and can boot from that connector, etc. If after testing the HDD on the alternate connector the lags disappear then you can just leave it there and be done with it and chalk it up to that connector or the controller failing. But if they still occur ... Look for a heat problem. What I always do with slow or flakey laptops is take off all the removable covers on the bottom, blow out any dust with compressed air (side vents too) and then place the laptop on a really good super fan/cooler to greatly increase the airflow and then test (I mean a good laptop cooler, there should be a lot of air moving or else it is a waste of time). This is the number one problem with laptops - heat. If the lags do not return then you got your problem nailed and you must work on a permanent airflow solution. If the lags do return even with the greatly increased airflow ... Next idea would be to get another HDD and clone the existing disk and its working OS (two connectors necessary obviously), pull the old drive, leave in the new (cloned) drive and boot and test. If the lags are gone, it is certain that the old HDD is unreliable (in fact, you may discover this during cloning process) and you can just shelve it and keep using the new cloned disk. But if the lags do return you can safely rule out the original HDD as the problem (plus you get a spare HDD which is not a bad thing) and have most likely narrowed it down to the OS (or other software and drivers) which carried forth to the new HDD when the OS was cloned. So ... As a proof, I would simply clean install Windows on the new HDD (wipe out the cloned OS). If this new installation is lag-free, then you know for a fact it is the OS (or other software) generated. You could now run the old one (by itself, swap it back in, pull the new one) with the original Windows install to try to nail down the definite OS or software glitch at your leisure. Recap: new drive has working new OS, old drive has old problem OS. I would make a point of exporting the registry on the old one and backing up all shortcuts, apps, data and copying it to the new one (but do not import this complete exported registry, ever!). You could even try the Windows Easy Transfer thingie (which I have never used so I cannot speak about it) or some other migration tool. I would then finally place the new drive as C: add the old drive as a D: (check that BIOS boots from new HDD!) and copy whatever needs to copied to the working new drive. You can leave D: as a spare in there, format it, etc, but it is better to just yank it out and leave it on the shelf as a fallback, because even brand new drives can die suddenly.

You were referring to the SMART summary? Well he cannot rule out a HDD problem but it is not certain that it is failing. I wish SMART was reliable but I personally don't it trust fully. The only thing I remember seeing that resembles the symptoms (intermittent lags in a variety of unrelated software) was in fact a failing HDD, but on a Win9x system and with FAT32 (a blue screen "Missing Disk" was the main clue, but the disk returned after reboot). SMART did not help in that case either. Fundamentals first. I assume it is a SATA drive, so ... (1) Swap out the SATA data cable for another and test. (2) Then I would try a different SATA power connector and test. (3) Then I would try connecting the SATA data cable to a different motherboard SATA port. Try them all. I can imagine tangled registry settings tying a HDD to a certain port but failing on others but I can't explain why. (for noobs that might be reading this later, swapping connectors in those three tests are down with the power off ) (4) Doublecheck BIOS for failing battery by looking for changed settings, also make sure IDE/AHCI isn't reversed. I believe after that you can rule out hardware (except for the actual HDD) as the culprit. Next step would be to fire up the manufacturer native HDD diags and see what they say. None of this supercedes what MagicAndre1981 is getting at. It is only to rule out the easy problems, and it is easy to do, so why not. I do not believe disabling is sufficient because both of them load drivers in \Drivers or \IoSubsys (can't remember, maybe both?) and such files are loaded at bootup and should still be visible in Autoruns and with several Nirsoft programs. Whether they can affect the system this way I am not sure, but in my opinion they are not completely innocent until completely removed.

Sorry if I missed it upthread, but are you downloading from a web browser? There is / was a problem in Opera resulting in random bad downloads. If you are using Opera I will elaborate.

Google might help In fact, in the very first result linking to another forum where you also posted this request, it looks like their moderator answered you saying he has it. I would contact him. EDIT: typo!

If you are running realtime antivirus, try downloading it again with it disabled. For example if you are using MSE (Microsoft Security Essentials) that little green icon should be red indicating that it is not scanning downloads and other files. Such realtime programs can affect downloads and even inserting a flashdrive.

Haven't used it too much lately myself. So I just tried something else to see how many formats they support (quite a few apparently). In that previous post I used a video from 1980, which most likely originates only from a VHS videotape (or Betamax!) so I expected only a couple of choices. is another music video which is much more modern and comes in HD.In the flashplayer in YouTube the Quality selector gives 5 choices ... 1080p HD 720p HD 480p 360p 240p Auto Then, placing the URL in KeepVid returns these direct download options ... ›› Download FLV ‹‹ - 240p ›› Download FLV ‹‹ - 360p ›› Download FLV ‹‹ - 480p ›› Download MP4 ‹‹ - (Max 480p) ›› Download MP4 ‹‹ - 720p ›› Download MP4 ‹‹ - 1080p ›› Download WebM ‹‹ - 360p ›› Download WebM ‹‹ - 480p ›› Download WebM ‹‹ - 720p ›› Download 3GP ‹‹ - 144p They seem to correspond 1:1 in resolution except for that 144p option. Anyway, it looks to me that as long as KeepVid stays in business (apparently they have a "Pro" version called "Vdownloader" for sale to pay the bills) it seems to be a viable video grabber, at least for casual use. One other important note, you definitely want to right-click "save as" on the download links, and avoid clicking those giant DOWNLOAD NOW and PLAY NOW buttons because the urls look like they start a download for their software, not saving the video.

Good catch How did you figure out his language? From the little flag? He didn't mention anything.

Just for completeness sake, there is also the online Keepvid.com, which is Java based and works in Opera and Firefox and MSIE (and probably Chrome as well). You just enter the URL and it usually gives a few choices for download. I just tried a random and it returns this ...Iron Maiden - Transylvania (Rainbow 1980) 04 ›› Download FLV ‹‹ - 240p ›› Download MP4 ‹‹ - (Max 480p) ›› Download WebM ‹‹ - 360p ›› Download 3GP ‹‹ - 144p All four are all direct URLs for right-click "Save As ...". NOTE: The first time you use it (KeepVid) during a session you need to acknowledge the security warning ("Do you want to Run?") and click 'Run' which starts the Java applet.

Black Viper has the best collection of references for all the Microsoft services for all versions of Windows. Since there are too many to remember these days I am often looking them up. One thing to note is that he prefers a very lean and clean computer so consequently his recommended settings do not include running all the bells and whistles most people enjoy, particularly the theme engine (which I use) and disk indexing and system restore (which I disable). It is easy enough to just install Windows fresh and then export the registry (at this point the services should match his default) and then tweak them to your final preference and export again, Windiff and create your own custom registry script that covers all the Microsoft services. I usually do this again for a 2nd time a few days later after adding hardware drivers and other software. This 2nd custom script will include many services that are not listed at his website, like your specific printer services or webcam, 3rd party software audio, video, anti-virus and quite a few more.

For the highest probability of success I suggest two things ... (1) Use the offline installer which is a 300 MB file (331,805,736) from here. (2) Run this after a clean boot with no realtime anti-virus/malware programs running. It is best not to have any non-essential programs running (iTunes, printer-crapware, google, flash and other updaters, etc ...). If you know how to use it correctly, MSCONFIG can cause a very 'clean' boot. I would avoid the Windows Update online install unless you have a radically fast connection, but even with one it can still fail because of interference from one of the many 3rd party programs that are running in addition to Windows.

You already know the answer to this because you typed it but you won't find the links here, at least I have never seen anyone post them or even discuss them. Ask a mod before going any further on this question. But 'the truth is out there', somewhere. Complete with hashes to verify as authentic, official and untouched.

Couldn't possibly disagree with you more. Not about whether Aero glass is beautiful since that is subjective (and I'd give it a 7 out of 10 in Win7 with some room for improvement, but a 1 out of 10 in Win8 for absolute fuglyness) so you can think what you want, it's your choice (but of course there was nothing stopping you from customizing or disabling Aero all along, correct? Your choice was always available. That is the point.) My problem is with the cheerleaders rooting for Microsoft to screw up my computer as well as their own. But I digress. These quoted comments simply express the excuses from Sinosfky and his team of Windows destroyers. Yes, we read it at their blog, Microsoft's Metro team is all about saving us from the hideous gloss of the GUI. We were too distracted and not getting our work done. I suppose we should be thanking them? This is one of many ways Microsoft demonstrates their deafness by failing to realize that what really irks people is being insulted, treated like little children, and especially lied to. This nonsense about Aero is but their latest rationale for eliminating choice - just like Apple has long been known for!. For most of the past few decades Microsoft had a well deserved reputation for user customization and Apple for iron-fisted uniformity. Oh the irony that now we have the Vista visual appearance being thrown under the bus and called Apple-esque, (as if that is what anyone was actually complaining about in Vista) while the Microsoft company itself is racing ahead to become Apple. Microsoft never really woke up after the Vista debacle, I would say they doubled down. They produced the Mojave experiment which is their veiled way of saying that the user "just wasn't doing it right", the customer is wrong and the company is always correct. Win7 has some minor tweaks but all the underlying stuff is really the same. I'm not even going to justify Vista or the Windows 6.x decision-making (major screwups in core architecture with the 32/64 design being a monstrous mess) but picking on the Vista appearance is just plain wrong at this point. Microsoft never really said 'we screwed up' or mea culpa, they just managed to convince enough people they did in order to move on to their next projects. If anything they were only sorry that they got bad press selling a lemon OS for the average computer of the time. The arrogance up there is astounding really, they must really despise their customer base to double and triple down now with the Windows 8 and Metro decisions. And what if you try to follow the logic of using Aero as a scapegoat for Vista? Right, because when I think of waste in Windows it just has to be that 'garish' Aero that immediately springs to mind. I mean when I fire up ProcMon it's that nasty Aero and DWM just filling up the screen with thousands of entries per second, wasting all that electricity and destroying our environment right? No. It certainly couldn't be endless disk indexing to optimize searches so that typing in C-A-L saves me a whole letter 'C' or other similar nonsense. It certainly couldn't be CPU and disk gobbling from saving countless restore points for every single update even a KB sized monitor driver. It certainly couldn't be the innumerable tasks and services that do nothing except make work for other tasks and services with only a handful ever being useful to the owner of the system. It couldn't be the non-stop event recording producing an unmanageable collection of logs that save everything except the one event that helps solve a problem. This is but the tip of the CPU and disk wasting iceberg, an ongoing problem since Win2k became WinXP. So I think that singling out Aero, the most visible improvement to the visuals in a decade, out of the vast array of components making up the Windows Rube Goldberg machine is a fine example of BS from Team B&S. Here is more BS from them that focuses on the real problem ... - 'We're doing it wrong' by carefully organizing our own desktop and start menu with multiple levels of flyouts instead of a garish sidescrolling Sesame Street selector that blasts all our program shortcuts right across the screen for our airplane seatmate or any nearby stranger to easily read without even trying to be nosy. - 'We're doing it wrong' by enjoying the visuals of our personal computer? It has been a long slog for many of us to get to this point where we have tons of CPU and GPU power and memory available for visual frills and aesthetics after years of busting our butts on prehistoric 2-color systems with a 4.77 MHz CPU and mere KB's of memory. I believe we've earned our chance to relax in front of a computer with our own themes, colors, fonts and everything else chosen by us, not Microsoft or Generation Xbox fanboys. - 'We're doing it wrong' by choosing to have many freely moveable and overlapping Windows open and truly inter-operating with multitasking across multiple displays and applications (since WinXP for most people, but even earlier with the right tools and parts). Who knew that we should have limited it to just two windows. - 'We're doing it wrong' by deciding what actually appears first on our display after logging in to our own computer, perhaps a custom application, or game server, or messaging program or email or webcam or music center or an empty desktop. Steering the thing automatically to Metro is like previous versions somehow booting up into a clicked-open start menu clicked again on "All Programs" and autoscrolling through a few groups at a time. Microsoft has an extraordinarily severe case of Apple-envy, an incurable case of jealousy which is really inexplicable because the two companies rarely compete head-to-head. It is a complete role reversal from the 80's when Apple was inexplicably anti-Microsoft with nothing but venomous and hateful criticism sent towards them and also IBM (the latter made some sense since they both competed in computer systems). But here we are today and Microsoft's plan SHOULD be crystal clear for everyone to see with the outrageous arrogance of the Start Menu removal and the patronizing "You were too distracted by the beauty" dumbing down of Aero, now set in motion since Windows 8 hit RTM. It would have been so easily solved simply with user choice yet they failed to listen, so we know their current operative plan: phase themselves into a walled garden model with a super-sized Xbox point of sale using Metro. The gradual phasing out of the desktop and x86 independent software but for a select few, using their huge monopolistic presence as the vehicle. They see the vast x86 computer user base as their own private pickings even though most of them never really chose Windows, it came installed on their computer thanks to the years of OEM backroom deals. All the other discussion is really just fluff and obsfucation and serves only to waste time and avoid focusing on the big issue. And if you are Microsoft, why not do this? They already have lots of Apple-like fanboys in place begging them to take over their personal computers -"Please dumb down my computer, please kill the Start Menu, turn Aero glass off, select my theme, make my computer easy for my 5-year old, give us uniformity!". It pains me to even think this but with all things considered, with a billion computers out there at the mercy and benevolence of couple of Redmond bureaucrats, I would support Microsoft being broken up now. I am definitely making my voice heard with my own representatives (everyone in the USA has one Rep and two Senators) and I hope others are doing the same. There is far too much at stake to be trusted under the control of a handful of people at Microsoft of very questionable temperament, ethics and intelligence. Metrosoft Windows 8 : If you don't like it, tough! ( We got you right where we want you )

Unfortunately a lot of astroturfing begins with ... "I work professionally as a systems engineer" or "I'm already buying at least 30 upgrade licenses for Win8 for my business" or "I've been in this business 16 years", if you happen to be the exception to the rule and really do like this thing, well, you're entitled to your opinion. Heck, I'm glad you love Windows 8. Somebody better love it or they will be really sunk when this pOS is released. However, in a lot of the pro-Windows 8 Metro comments people are trying to create phony strawmen about Windows 95 and even Windows 3.x. As the saying goes: 'you are entitled to your opinion but not your own facts. There was no such movement against either of these things. Here and there you might read articles in magazines yapping about esoteric details like why Win95 wasn't like OS/2 or NT, or arguments about whether it was true multi-tasking, or whether by reducing the requirements to 4MB RAM they were sacrificing stability for performance. No-one would possibly have said Win95 would decrease productivity. There was no consensus about failure, or for Linux, this is complete hogwash. Besides, the web was so new at the launch of Win95 and non-existant for Windows 3.x (except at the very end) so there is no comparison to what we see today with a tsunami of criticism aimed at Windows 8 Metro, no comparison at all. In my opinion 95% of people at the time even aware of the 16-bit vs 32-bit concept, or Win3.x DOS launcher vs. Windows 9x multitasking, such people ran as fast as they could to Win95 because stability is what it promised (and delivered) to the mad mix of DOS and Windows applications flooding the world. They ran to Win95 because it was in fact an actual improvement (by every definition of the word) in every possible way because nothing in Win3x was actually lost, and the gains were too numerous to count. Windows 3.x users were primarily two groups, those like myself that had been through the DOS and DOS/Windows world since the beginning and had already tried every possible text-mode and graphics-mode menu system and launcher in existence, and the other group was those that were getting Windows with their new computers who never even had an earlier version to even compare it to. They had no dog in this race, there was no established love for Win3x yet, so Windows 95 took off with no reservations, and even included had a working 3.x interface and file manager if you chose to use them. The only complaints was that it took so long for pre-emptive multitasking to arrive or why Microsoft was always ten steps behind Apple. There was some complaints that the CDROM distribution forced you to get an expensive optical drive or a ton of floppies, as there was no digital distribution yet but that drive always came with a computer anyway since Microsoft still supplied the Windows media in those days, and prices dropped quickly from 1x - 2x - 4x - 8x (about $200 for my first 1x reader to around $50 within a year or two). This 'resistant to change' meme is a wonder to behold actually, spread by people who may sincerely like Windows 8 Metro but are inexplicably flabbergasted that others will not reward their approbation and so they remain feeling unfulfilled. They better get used to it, because if you hitched your horse to Windows 8 in general, and Metro in particular you're in for a bumpy ride. But have no fear, If Microsoft does not kill it (and remember they are pretty fond of killing their failures) and sticks with it even against the massive warning, then the community will be forced to fix this disaster by supplying Aero glass workarounds and replacement Start Menus. I would whole-heartedly embrace Windows 8 if Metro could be demoted to a Windowed application like MCE, if the hot corners and charms could be disabled, and if Aero was the same or better than Win7. As it stands now at RTM it is far far worse than Win7, it is butt ugly, an absolute insult to the eyes and to my computer hardware and is so RETRO that it looks like an amalgam of Windows 1, 2 and 3. Even that is understating it. Windows 8 is a crappy HTML webpage lookalike. The firmware menus on my TV's and other gadgets are better looking. "Change is sometimes for the best worst, and Windows 8 is a great example of that."

Agreed. It completely negates the most visible visual advancement out of Microsoft in years, I think the last one of note was msstyles for WinXP. They could have left Aero glass in and let it be handled by the visual settings selector ('set for best performance' or 'best appearance') which was the entire purpose of that dialog! Anyway, those pictures are with Explorer.exe from RTM, but any images using the Tihiy mod using Explorer.exe from Win7, or possibly one of the three Win8 betas?

They are not distributed in the Suite (nor do they appear on the All Utilitites page). The top post dates to the fall of 2008 when VS2008 was being used to recompile the utilities and they began to fail on Win9x. If you can create a list of the missing utilities from the earlier days I will dig them up from my own archives and others, and write a little section about them. I had meant to do this eventually. Thanks for reminding me. -CTH-

UPDATE TO POST #1 The top post has been re-written to describe the current ZIP package suite dated: 2012-08-03. Win9x fans will notice that ONE more utility no longer operates. -CTH-

These are exactly the kids I am talking about. Somehow when they were born or hatched they were missing the gene that respects choice. I read through that thread and I am still amazed at the obfuscation: 'Aero is still there crybabies, it's the same!'. No it is not the same, and we never meant simply 'Aero'. Duh. Some of them in other threads are saying Metro was really just a codename, nothing else happened. But what's the point of arguing, if they cannot even fathom the concept of choice and the individual private desktop customization that helped made Windows what is, arguing is pointless. They are sheep. Since it is a forum that apparently includes 10-year olds or younger, it might be considered child-abuse just challenging their notions. Neobond (Steven Parker) knows this but is just fine with having Neowin drift into irrelevancy as long as he gets click counts. More troubling to me is that TechSpot, a partner site, also shows signs of fanboyism. It must be contagious! Ironically Stardock has a substantial stake in Neowin. Stardock involvement with Neowin FAQ I really admire Stardock and everything since I first tried Windows Blinds. They always seem to create stuff that I am looking for. Yet they still manage catch a lot of grief over there. Weird. Some people think Neowin is just over-correcting by lurching to the other side after being burned by Microsoft ... Cnet: Microsoft speaks, [Neowin] site goes dark We'll probably never know unless Neobond 'fesses up. For now he just links to that Cnet page when asked. Microsoft Windows 8 : RTM ( Revising The Meme )

No confusion, I was just in a hurry writing that comment. I am aware of the several different versions but of course have never had reason nor inclination to get copies of them. Just to clarify what I meant ... the DoJ antitrust case set a bad precedent, paving the way for these current EU versions (and whatever more to come). My point is that the precedent was bad exactly because it was over a trivial matter and consequently all further manifestations derived from it will also be trivial. That's my point. The 800 pound gorilla is in fact antitrust, not the trivial anti-competitive practices of bundling a browser. Thanks to the DoJ, that 800 pound gorilla was left free to wreak havoc because the DoJ wasted their ammo shooting at phantoms. A conspiracy theorist might even believe that Microsoft setup the MSIE vs Netscape fiasco just to have the government waste time pursuing it all the while they were busy with backroom deals, strong-arming Dell, Gateway, HP, Compaq into exclusive deals, cementing the billion user base, setting up the current takeover attempt with a walled garden. (I don't subscribe to this setup conspiracy btw, but have strong reservations and suspicions about those backroom deals). Amazingly, it all could have been much, much worse. After the 2000 judgment, I fully expected each and every free part of Windows to be challenged and eventually removed by every 3rd party software company. Calculator, Defrag, Notepad, Outlook Express, the list is endless. Then we would be left with DOS with a GUI. Needless to say, even the old traditional DOS would not survive under these circumstances since at least half of the internal and external commands could be challenged! For some reason only MSIE and WMP have been successfully targeted, but it really could have been the entire thing.

Shouldn't the 2nd question have NO as a final choice? I can't complete the poll without it. Fully agree that the Live Essentials should not be forced ever. It should be called Live Non-Essentials

Yep. The Netscape fiasco is still biting us in the butt. When Barksdale (Netscape honcho) was crying before Congress in 1998 or so, I just knew something bad was gonna happen. Enter the DoJ and the antitrust case. The smart people got out of MSFT and other stocks before the big one happened in Spring 2000 when the final decision was announced (United States v. Microsoft). That was over two years of uncertainty, rumors and worries on CNBC, in the WSJ and others. Finally, pop went MSFT, pop went NASDAQ and pop went the whole DotCom bubble. 'Pop' isn't the right word here, CRASH is. Ironically, it would be fun to blame Ballmer who was promoted around this time ( hehe, plot MSFT on a chart under his tenure ), but in reality it was the Justice Department and Congress that apparently had nothing better to do but harass Microsoft just for kicks. BTW, this was the one time that an automobile analogy fit like a glove: ... telling Microsoft to NOT include a web browser in Windows is like telling Ford to NOT include a radio in a car. The radio can easily be removed, replaced, upgraded or ignored. Third party aftermarket radios thrive regardless. But was anybody listening to logic? Heck no. IMHO, most of the crash of 2000-2003 can be traced to the 1998-2000 Microsoft case, the apprehension around it and the fresh memory of AT&T and IBM. But the worst part of it all is that the whole case was over nothing. There were other things to look at (I think the OEM licensing and effective lockout of alternate OS is more suspicious) but this one was a real dog and counter-productive. It set the wrong precedent, made its way actoss the pond to Europe, creating the browser ballot and WMP-less versions. Both of these things exemplify utter stupidity, while ignoring other really possible monopolistic practices. Maybe Metro is their payback to all of us. Can you just imagine the Fanboy heads exploding! But I absolutely fully agree. Compared to the Netscape madness, I think this one has got legs. Attempting to convert the wider Windows desktop base to their walled garden really disgusts me because this is not their private customer base at all. Most of these people had no choice in using Windows and didn't ask to be in this game at all. At the very minimum it is immoral and unethical. And it is wrong. Even though I couldn't care less about Windows 8, I have enough Windows licenses to last a lifetime (and collecting more retired computers all the time) but it would be sweet to see Microsoft backtrack on the Start Menu and Aero and the resultant meltdowns of the Generation X-Box fanboy population. They will meltdown even if only a choice of using it is offered (as it should be). That's how arrogant some of the Windows base has become. I don't know how it happened, how these kids became blind to freedom and choice, but it has happened, they have become Apple fanboys or worse. Microsoft Windows 8 : RTM ( Rationalizing Telemetry Madness ) EDIT: updated image URL, and again

Yep, it did. (I didn't want to link to it because I don't see how it would pass forum rules though). It is the "N" version (European release sans WMP) and it is the corporate Enterprise volume license edition at that. More importantly to me, the questions I had above (were there any concessions from Redmond to the overwhelming criticism of the death of the Start Menu and Aero Glass effects) appear to be answered. NO! There is a video walkthrough on YouTube (mentioned at NeoWin) that does not appear to violate any rules (Mods agree? If not I'll delete it). The video runs through most of the features and a few apps and the 'improved' desktop is clearly visible at 1:23 in its new glassless Aero form. No thanks Microsoft. I can turn Aero off if I want to on Vista/7 without your help. No sale. The Start Menu is still missing, exactly the same as the consumer betas. Word on the street also is that Tihiy's Explorer transplant was somehow blocked (for now). I haven't seen any comments on the Start Menu replacements yet. We shall find out soon I suspect. Congratulations Microsoft, you have re-defined the word deaf. And in the process you have turned yourself into IBM. Microsoft Windows 8 : RTM ( Regretting This Milestone )