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Ninho

USB 2 / SiS chipset

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Hi ! This is my first post, and I have searched but do apologise for n00bieness !

I desperately need to activate USB 2.0 function in Windows 98 SE, motherboard : ASRock K7S41 (SiS 963 L southbridge). Neither MS, nor the MoBo or chip makers, nor the makers of my USB 2.0 capable appliances provide the needed low level drivers for EHCI.

As a result, my USB 2.0 external hard drive, and USB 2.0 disc on key, work only at painfully slow USB 1.1 speeds under W 98 SE (but do work at USB 2.0 speeds under windows 2000 SP 4 - tested)

Is the "Unofficial Service Pack" a solution to this problem ? Or does it not provide the EHCI chipset drivers, and if not, who will ?

Thanks in advance

--

Ninho

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Unofficial Service Pack does not contain any new hardware drivers.

What is the Vendor & Device ID? Orangeware driver version 2.xx supports "SiS USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller" with VID=1039 and DID=7002.

You can download it here: http://www.winpack.org/petr/usb2-ow-2.04.zip

Petr

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Hi Petr!

And what about this: ... "SiS USB 2.0 Driver Ver:1.04" for Windows 98 and ME, have you tried it?

Yes of course I have. The same "driver" exists on the CD which came with the MoBo :

Unfortunately, it is a fake : it does nothing, but launch a small program in Autoexec.bat which disables the USB 2 (EHCI) controller in the SiS 963 L. The purpose being to inhibit windows 98 SE from (re)discovering the EHCI upon each boot and asking for the missing driver. Dirty trick, isn't it ?

I'll have to check your Orangeware thingie - that would be what I'm after, only I need check the PCI id of the USB 2 function in my chipset before. Thank you very much, I'll report failure or hopefully, success with that !

[Edited ...]

Well, the Orange USB 2 drivers installed successfully : thank you! thank you, thank you ! I now have drivers for the USB 2 in Device Manager.

The devices themselves are still using USB 1.1 however. Do I have to install part of the "SE to ME" thing in order for my external USB drive to recognise and use the new EHCI drivers, or do I simply uninstall and reinstall said USB drive using its manufacturer's disc ?

--

Ninho

Edited by Ninho

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I just setup a new Foxconn 748K7AA board with 98SE. It's a SiS 748 board. You're right. For an unexplained reason the USB 2.0 installer sets up autoexec to run that nousb file on every boot, which of course just disables Windows detection of the USB 2.0 hardware.

I'm sneaky when it comes to 98SE though. We all must be, in these days when we seem to be forced, kicking and screaming, into running XP or to miss out on all the neat stuff.

Here's how I enabled it.

Don't install USB 2.0 from the cd. If you already did, delete the nousb file in the Windows folder and the associated entry in autoexec and reboot.

You should have that question marked Universal Serial Bus device in device manager back.

Update the driver to the USB 2.0 driver in the Windows2000 folder on the cd (browse to it). You'll now have the Microsoft Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller.

As far as I can tell I have USB 2.0. My scanner is a high speed USB device that I remember complained when I installed it to a USB 1.1 port on my Asus A7V333, suggesting I use a detected USB 2.0 port instead. It isn't complaining on this board and is working fine, as is my Thrustmaster USB 2.0 force feedback gamepad.

Neither Foxconn or SiS post the USB 2.0 driver on the web. I think it is only on the motherboard cd. But you must manually install it on Windows 98SE and Windows Me as for some reason we aren't meant to have it.

I haven't noticed any instability. In fact, for a $35 board I feel like I robbed a bank or something. I got this one from newegg but since they ran out I just ordered another one from ebay. I have 2 Athlon XP's so these boards will replace the one's I paid $80 for as they do not suffer from several instability problems associated with the more expensive boards.

And, ooooh! Dos memory management, EMM386, etc, works on these unlike the Asus A7V880 or Abit KW7 I've been using. I disabled the by default enabled wake on events and USB keyboard and mouse support. With expanded memory enabled by EMM386, it doesn't have enough to load devices high. So it's not perfect. But if ran with noems it has the full package of memory available for loadhigh. I'm a little sorry I already installed my Audigy 2 ZS on it as I would now like to see if it has the non-maskable interrupts my SBLive needs for dos sound. Well, I'll have the new board to play with. Proddy Parrot here I come! (I don't know. Maybe I won't bother since I have better soundcards and Dosbox.)

Another thing weird about the bios optimized defaults is it turns on all that wakeup stuff that is usually disabled on most default bios's. I found out when I breathed (practically, maybe I bumped my desk) and the system booted up by itself. So I went in and disabled all that. I'm not too lazy to push the power button.

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@Eck : your experience is an encouragement indeed; you wrote :

Update the driver to the USB 2.0 driver in the Windows2000 folder on the cd (browse to it). You'll now have the Microsoft Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Controller.

Which CD was that ? The one from MoBo makers ? Are yous ure youwere able to install the drivers intended for Win 2k under 98 ? Also, did you check your devices achieve USB 2.0 speeds alright (not difficult to assess, try to transfer a 1 Gigabyte file... if it takes a couple minutes, it's USB 2 , else if 20 minutes, well, you see the point).....

@Petr : I now have the Orangeware driver installed. Device manager shows it thusly :

-Universal Serial Bus controllers

=PCI Class USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller

=USB 2.0 Root Hub Device

Shall I also upgrade the Windows 98 files, like USBSTOR.SYS ... ? What should my next move be ? Could you please point me to accurate instructions ?

Concerned also about the fact that my Win 98 SE is a non-US version. I don't mind if some messages come out in English instead of French, but I want to be sure it'll work alright after all the changes.

TYIA

Edited by Ninho

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I now have the Orangeware driver installed. Device manager shows it thusly :

-Universal Serial Bus controllers

=PCI Class USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller

=USB 2.0 Root Hub Device

It looks like not supported EHCI controller.

Petr

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Yes, it's the manufacturer's motherboard cd. Look around in there to see where they are on your cd. I think that's the only way USB 2.0 drivers are distributed for the SiS boards. Via puts there's on their viaarena website. I don't know why they're allowed to do that as the other manufacturer's usually state that they can't due to licencing agreements.

On XP, with the Via boards I did usually install the latest download from viaarena over the Microsoft XP USB 2.0 driver. I think this left the XP driver alone but provided some performance tweaks to it.

On the SiS boards when using XP you just leave the Microsoft USB 2.0 driver.

On 9x though, apparently SiS is simply fulfilling its licensing agreement by turning off USB 2.0.

I don't have any USB HD's to test the speed, but the Power reading on all the Root Hubs is 500mA per port, if that's related. And my Thrustmaster gamepad's vibration is working, which I think requires USB 2.0. And, as I said, the HP Scanjet 3970 is a USB 2.0 device (although backwards compatible). It generally complains with a message box if installed to a USB 1.1 port and I got no complaints on this system.

So, I think I've got it. It is a Microsoft driver. I also think that the Windows 2000 driver is fine on 9x. I remember on the Via boards that they didn't differentiate between the different operating systems for the USB 2.0 driver. It was the same driver no matter which OS (9x, XP) it was installed on. I do install the Microsoft 98SE patch for USB on AMD chipsets greater than 350 MHz even though it is was originally designed for Via controllers, as the usbman website recommends this for the SiS 7001 drivers on 9x.

As far as what you've got now, I don't think you would still have the Universal Serial Bus Controllers listed there, unless that is what your USB 1.0 drivers are called. I think the Enhanced driver is supposed to replace that. Not sure though. You should still have listed whatever the USB 1.0 drivers are. But, if there's no question mark there and the driver is stated to be "working properly" then perhaps that what your's are called.

On mine it's the SiS 7001 controllers. I have 3 of those (1 for each set of 2 USB inputs, as I have installed a USB 2.0 bracket borrowed from my Abit KW7 to the additional connector on the board so I get 2 more USB 2.0 inputs for a total of 6 inputs). Then I have the Enhanced driver listed, then the Root Hubs. I have 8 inputs actually as I also connected the front USB 2.0 from my case to the second input provided on the motherboard. That's why a couple of the root hubs list 3 inputs available instead of 2. Normally, I would have expected 4 root hubs, but apparently this board combines the 2 optional plugins on the motherboard.

Edited by Eck

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How's that, "unsupported", Petr ? what's wrong with that new OrangeWare EHCI ?

In addition to the 3 lines for USB/EHCI I listed earlier, I still have the lines for Open HCI showing in device manager. They were untouched by the Orangeware install :

- Contrôleurs de bus USB

= Concentrateur USB racine

= Concentrateur USB racine

= Contrôleur d'hôte ouvert PCI vers USB SiS 7001

= Contrôleur d'hôte ouvert PCI vers USB SiS 7001

And the orangeware added for EHCI :

-Universal Serial Bus controllers

=PCI Class USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller

=USB 2.0 Root Hub Device

The only thing troubled me a little is they don't come under the same header in Device Manager listing, but isn't it just because the languages differ ?

Why is this made so difficult ! Oh, yes, I think I have an idea why it is ;=)

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How's that, "unsupported", Petr ? what's wrong with that new OrangeWare EHCI ?

It means that it is not supported as SiS USB EHCI controller but as generic EHCI controller. Taken from the INF file, for SiS (device ID 7002) the device name is:

PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002="SiS USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller"

but for generic EHCI controler

PCI\CC_0C0320.DeviceDesc= "PCI Class USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller"

In my first post I have asked you for the VID & DID and I mentioned that just 1039 & 7002 could probably work.

In addition to the 3 lines for USB/EHCI I listed earlier, I still have the lines for Open HCI showing in device manager. They were untouched by the Orangeware install :

- Contrôleurs de bus USB

= Concentrateur USB racine

= Concentrateur USB racine

= Contrôleur d'hôte ouvert PCI vers USB SiS 7001

= Contrôleur d'hôte ouvert PCI vers USB SiS 7001

And the orangeware added for EHCI :

-Universal Serial Bus controllers

=PCI Class USB 2.0 Enhanced Host Controller

=USB 2.0 Root Hub Device

The only thing troubled me a little is they don't come under the same header in Device Manager listing, but isn't it just because the languages differ ?

No, the primary reason is that because of compatibility issues Orangeware driver does not us standard "USB" class but its own "OWCUSB" class.

Petr

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Petr, your patience is admired.

In my first post I have asked you for the VID & DID and I mentioned that just 1039 & 7002 could probably work.

The PCI device in my chipset is indeed 1039/7002. Checked again using a PCI identification utility.

Vendor ID : 1039 , Dev ID = 7002 , Subsystem = 7002 , Sub-vendor ID : 1849.

==

Is there something wrong with Orangeware or this SiS controller ? Not sure I grasped what you are trying to explain - I'm really sorry !

(Edited:) Would you advise me removing the Orangeware and retrying ? Or removing it altogether, but what to replace it with ?

--

Ninho

Edited by Ninho

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Don't mean to interfere here, but does your motherboard cd have the Windows 2000 USB 2.0 driver on it?

If so, I might try uninstalling the OrangeWare stuff. Then uninstall all your USB drivers and software and unplug anything hooked up to it. Then make sure that SiS stuff (the nousb file and the autoexec reference to it) isn't still installed. Then remove all your root hubs and usb host controllers from device manager and reboot. This will refresh that stuff after all the fooling around with OrangeWare. Then reboot again so Windows registry catches up with the drivers it installed (not USB 2.0 yet, but it will automatically install the USB 1.1). Then do what I said before and update within device manager the question marked Universal Serial Bus Controller to the Windows 2000 USB 2.0 driver on your cd. Reboot.

Then install your software for your devices, then the hardware, one at a time, rebooting between each step.

See if you get your 2.0 speed.

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Petr, your patience is admired.

In my first post I have asked you for the VID & DID and I mentioned that just 1039 & 7002 could probably work.

The PCI device in my chipset is indeed 1039/7002. Checked again using a PCI identification utility.

Vendor ID : 1039 , Dev ID = 7002 , Subsystem = 7002 , Sub-vendor ID : 1849.

==

Is there something wrong with Orangeware or this SiS controller ? Not sure I grasped what you are trying to explain - I'm really sorry !

Hard to say. The INF contains the following lines:

%PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002%=OEHCI, PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002&SUBSYS_1800147B

%PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002%=OEHCI, PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002&SUBSYS_1801147B

%PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002%=OEHCI, PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002&SUBSYS_B01C144D

%PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002%=OEHCI, PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002&SUBSYS_56421462

%PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002%=OEHCI, PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002&SUBSYS_04001558

%PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002%=OEHCI, PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002&SUBSYS_04011558

%PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002%=OEHCI, PCI\VEN_1039&DEV_7002&SUBSYS_22631558

It means that it is clearly specified what motherboards are supported, these are:

147B - ABIT Computer Corp.

144D - Samsung Electronics Co Ltd

1462 - Micro-Star International Co., Ltd.

1558 - CLEVO/KAPOK Computer

1849 - ASRock Incorporation is not listed here.

I don't know what does this mean. Maybe the driver checks the subsystem ID and works just for the defined in the INF file - this would be strange behavior but possible.

Have you tried the USBview utility to check if the device is connected as 1.1 or 2.0 device?

I use Kingston Data Traveller for such testing, it contains LED that ligths red for 1.1 and blue for 2.0.

If your 2.0 device will appear as 1.1 device it means that the Orangeware driver does not work and you could try what Eck has suggested.

BTW, I have similar problem with some motherboards with newere chipsets - although Orangeware driver installs with no problem and displays the correct number of USB2 ports, it never switch the controller to 2.0 mode. But ICH6 and ICH7 southbridges have different Device ID not just subsystem, so it was not so big surprise.

Petr

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@Eck You're not interfering in any way, by Jove, your input is precious as Petr's is. I need time to digest it all ;=)

@Petr & Eck & All I think I shall go the way of : removing OrangeWare and try AsRock supplied, intended for Windows 2k, driver. Crossing fingers.

I've also requested the localised updates Q239696 & Q291362 from Microsoft support. In case someone is interested in having these files in French, he may contact me. [Edited : ooops ! MS or their subcontractor sent US-English files and say it's all they have ! A shame, esp. concerning the central user interface files :=( ]

Back later ...

Edited by Ninho

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Hi again !

Been peeking inside the Win 98 SE Registry, here's what I find from OrangeWare; does it seem OK (Petr ?) Should I look at other sections of the Registry for potential problems ?

If it looks OK, I could uninstall my USB 2 memory *devices* (1 external HD "Profil 35" by QPS, and 1 non-name USB 2.0 disk-on-key) and reinstall them; they were both hooked to system BEFORE I found the OrangeWare drivers, maybe that's why they won't use OW ?

-------- OrangeWare USB 2 : HK_Enum key -------------------------------------------------------

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Enum\{B8139C20-CF94-11D5-AEF7-0002B30625C5}\ROOT_HUB20\PCI&VEN_1039&DEV_7002&SUBSYS_70021849&REV_00&BUS_00&DEV_03&FUNC_02]

"Capabilities"=hex:84,00,00,00

"HardwareID"="{B8139C20-CF94-11D5-AEF7-0002B30625C5}\\ROOT_HUB20"

"DeviceDesc"="USB 2.0 Root Hub Device"

"ClassGUID"="{B8139C20-CF94-11d5-AEF7-0002B30625C5}"

"Class"="OWCUSB"

"Driver"="OWCUSB\\0001"

"Mfg"="OWC"

"ConfigFlags"=hex:00,00,00,00

"Serial"=hex:2c,00,00,00,00,00,00,00

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yours truly, clueless... :}

Ninho

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