coding a new browser for windows 3.1?

[enderlais]

Hello there.

i was wondering if it was possible to make a new browser for windows 3.1 or specifically : windows for workstations 3.11.

i am wanting to do this because i realized, that there is no modern web browser for wfw 3.11. the only ones i could find where from dos and i couldn't get them to work. i also think it would be easier if it would run directly under windows 3.11.

the problem :  i have never programmed anything in my life. so i would need lots of help. i tried googeling it, but i couldn't find anything for windows 3.11.

i have a virtual machine with internet access set up too in case of need or testing (wfw 3.11). I don't have real hardware at the moment because i'm in Japan.

i will try my best to learn everything neccecarry to make it work !!!!

all help would be appreciated.

-enderlais

PS English is not my mother language so I'm sorry if it may be difficult to read, my main language is German. (you can correct my gramer if you want)

[jumper]

How much memory does wfw support? And system resources?

 

[user57]

i heared there once was a extra release windows 3.2 for chinese country only (useally there is only 3.1 or its better version 3.11)

[enderlais]

22 hours ago, jumper said:

How much memory does wfw support? And system resources?

 

I think I had it running on 256mb ram in an old pentium 3 compaq once but I never knew if it supported all of it or even saw it.

 

Edit: when I googled it, wikipedia said the following:

"Windows 3.1 could access a theoretical 4 GB in the 386 enhanced mode. The actual practical ceiling is 256 MB."

Edited May 7 by enderlais

[enderlais]

13 hours ago, user57 said:

i heared there once was a extra release windows 3.2 for chinese country only (useally there is only 3.1 or its better version 3.11)

I heard about this too but its only a localisation I belive. I am using wfw 3.21 though because of the networking capabilities.

[jumper]

The desktop and any other apps will be sharing 64 KB of resources. You won't be able to run any other apps at the same time.

So don't use wfw in the VM. Use a Linux distro with a wfw skin instead.

 

[enderlais]

3 hours ago, jumper said:

The desktop and any other apps will be sharing 64 KB of resources. You won't be able to run any other apps at the same time.

So don't use wfw in the VM. Use a Linux distro with a wfw skin instead.

 

I can't find this limitation anywhere.

Besides, why would anyone install more ram then?

Well I tried linux first but my iPad does not give enough cpu power... windows 3.11 also runs slow like on original hardware. Besides...

It just wouldn't be the same

[awkduck]

On 5/6/2024 at 8:10 AM, enderlais said:

Hello there.

i was wondering if it was possible to make a new browser for windows 3.1 or specifically : windows for workstations 3.11.

I've heard rumor of FreePascal/Lazarus having a Win16 target. This doesn't mean it would be easy, but it is one option.

[awkduck]

6 hours ago, jumper said:

The desktop and any other apps will be sharing 64 KB of resources. You won't be able to run any other apps at the same time.

So don't use wfw in the VM. Use a Linux distro with a wfw skin instead.

 

Which resources? I know you don't mean ram. There are greater limitations, if you are not in 386 enhanced mode. I also remember that having virtual memory enabled, limited you to 512mb of memory. When that is disable, I could see the machine's 1.5Gb (alternative Dos Memory managers). Not that Windows could actually use it. I've read that 256mb was the maximum managed (actively used) before the memory manager would become unstable.

But applications like Adobe Premiere (v1.1) required 8mb of ram. And I certainly have ran more then one application, of such demands, simultaneously (cooperative multitasking).

But, I do recall the Graphical Display resources being an issue. Also, I think there was an issue with allocating over 64mb of ram (similar issue [but not the same] with DrDos7 multitasking).

It would be neat to have a 32bit Dos multi-tasker (like WfW[32bit]). Something like Dosemu, but instead on Dos, using Dos Drivers. Japheth (HxDos) has done excellent work for Dos. It would be interesting to have preemptively managed Dos VMs, supporting environments like Japheth's extender. It could be a hobbyist nerd's playground. Sbemu and VSBHDA are slowly approaching the potential, for forking into an "A.L.S.A. for Dos". It might prove nice targeting a modern(ish) browser, towards an open sourced environment like this. Especially, since HxDos has implemented some of the Win32 environment.

If one designed the UI correctly, HxHos is not a Window Manager (no floating Windows), you could implement or port a browser to HxDos' Win32 environment. With VSBHDA, you might even have audio. There is even, now, Javascript for Dos; not that it could be used "well" in a Dos WebBrowser.

 

[jumper]

Windows GDI and User resources for object handles. 64 KB. 

 

[enderlais]

6 hours ago, awkduck said:

Which resources? I know you don't mean ram. There are greater limitations, if you are not in 386 enhanced mode. I also remember that having virtual memory enabled, limited you to 512mb of memory. When that is disable, I could see the machine's 1.5Gb (alternative Dos Memory managers). Not that Windows could actually use it. I've read that 256mb was the maximum managed (actively used) before the memory manager would become unstable.

But applications like Adobe Premiere (v1.1) required 8mb of ram. And I certainly have ran more then one application, of such demands, simultaneously (cooperative multitasking).

But, I do recall the Graphical Display resources being an issue. Also, I think there was an issue with allocating over 64mb of ram (similar issue [but not the same] with DrDos7 multitasking).

It would be neat to have a 32bit Dos multi-tasker (like WfW[32bit]). Something like Dosemu, but instead on Dos, using Dos Drivers. Japheth (HxDos) has done excellent work for Dos. It would be interesting to have preemptively managed Dos VMs, supporting environments like Japheth's extender. It could be a hobbyist nerd's playground. Sbemu and VSBHDA are slowly approaching the potential, for forking into an "A.L.S.A. for Dos". It might prove nice targeting a modern(ish) browser, towards an open sourced environment like this. Especially, since HxDos has implemented some of the Win32 environment.

If one designed the UI correctly, HxHos is not a Window Manager (no floating Windows), you could implement or port a browser to HxDos' Win32 environment. With VSBHDA, you might even have audio. There is even, now, Javascript for Dos; not that it could be used "well" in a Dos WebBrowser.

 

well the netscape navigator already had java script so wfw 3.11 supports it.

 

7 hours ago, awkduck said:

I've heard rumor of FreePascal/Lazarus having a Win16 target. This doesn't mean it would be easy, but it is one option.

there are multiple older ones that have the capability of compiling 16 bit. especially, the ones o that area.

the main problem is i don't know what i have to do or how to code because i cant find anything for windows 3.11 yet alone a browser.

 

the idea came from me not managing to bring a dos browser to work under wfw3.11 and there being no newish browsers for it natively. 

maybe something simple, a few security protocols maybe and https support since that is totally missing in any browsers from that area.

[enderlais]

here is a site of programs to compile and code on wfw 3.11 (although this is only c++ so i don't know how useful that is) i have Symantec C++ Pro 6.1 installed because it supports 256 colors.

https://www.streetinfo.lu/computing/programming/windowsold/software/win3x_cpp.html

[awkduck]

18 hours ago, jumper said:

Windows GDI and User resources for object handles. 64 KB. 

 

@jumper Yeah, that is pretty low.

[enderlais]

Yesterday I downloaded an update for ie 5 that added 128 bit security.

Maybe we can add protocols that way too?

If we could add things like https like that it would already be a bit better to use.