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How to debug out of memory issues in Windows 9x/ME?


Kahenraz
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Posted (edited)

Hold it down or try pressing it a couple of times. It might not capture the keyboard press if you do it too quickly. Because it runs in the background, it can only capture asynchronously, which is subject to race conditions when reading the keyboard.

Edited by Kahenraz
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I had the command prompt still highlighted being the active window. To stop the opening and closing of the tested program with stress-open, the program has to be the active window, so ctrl + tab to the program then esc key. I had no trouble with my machine.

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This tool has no window and therefore no place to receive messages. It polls the keyboard asynchronously, so it doesn't matter what is active in the foreground when you press escape.

"I had no trouble with my machine."

Your system may also visibly consume and not free memory, if you watch it from the System Monitor.

If you let it run for a while, the amount of time varies depending on the hardware and its speed, it will consume enough memory that you can't open a DOS window anymore. Let it run further and eventually Win32 programs will break as well.

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6 hours ago, Kahenraz said:

This tool has no window and therefore no place to receive messages.

You failed to consider my last post in your answer and as mentioned I added arguments using the command line shell/window.

 

6 hours ago, Kahenraz said:

It polls the keyboard asynchronously, so it doesn't matter what is active in the foreground when you press escape.

No it will not do that. You need to try the command line window/prompt and without highlighting the program it will not exit.

 

6 hours ago, Kahenraz said:

Your system may also visibly consume and not free memory, if you watch it from the System Monitor.

No it does not do that.

6 hours ago, Kahenraz said:

If you let it run for a while, the amount of time varies depending on the hardware and its speed, it will consume enough memory that you can't open a DOS window anymore. Let it run further and eventually Win32 programs will break as well.

No but I did not want to run it unattended either. My machine has not got the greatest north bridge throughput, it should be better and RAM speeds are not full adjustable but I have under clocked the RAM from 1333 to 800. At the moment if I use 1333, errors in unknown or user.exe in WinME will creep in. The NB has a window of operating frequency only and I believe it should not be as narrow as it is. There is no bad memory list in Win8.1.

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2 hours ago, Goodmaneuver said:

There is no bad memory list in Win8.1.

The tool is meant for Windows 9x/ME to demonstrate memory leaks. It won't show any of the memory problems I've mentioned in Windows 8.1.

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2 hours ago, Kahenraz said:

The tool is meant for Windows 9x/ME to demonstrate memory leaks. It won't show any of the memory problems I've mentioned in Windows 8.1.

bcdedit /deletevalue {badmemory} badmemorylist

Because it never found any I am not sure Win8.1 has this command or not though.

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I have no bad will for Goodmaneuver, but I have been noticing for quite some time that some of his posts are hard to understand, mostly due to him misunderstanding the topics at hand, which makes him give advice that is not relevant to a given situation, even if such advice is useful and correct. Of course I might be in the wrong, just something I've been observing as an avid user of MSFN's Win9x section.

I am eager to try your theory and tool to check if I can reproduce this issue on my 98SE rig - Core 2 Duo E8600, 4GB DDR2 1066MHz RAM, GeForce 7900 GTX.

Maybe try using something more demanding than Notepad.

 

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Maybe we should chat on Discord so I can bring someone else up to speed with the issue. My primary Windows 98 machine is actually very similar to yours; a Core 2 Duo E6700 with a Radeon X800. I like to use this machine for testing because it's very fast, but the memory problem can be reproduced on any hardware or VM.

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3 hours ago, MrMateczko said:

I have no bad will for Goodmaneuver, but I have been noticing for quite some time that some of his posts are hard to understand, mostly due to him misunderstanding the topics at hand, which makes him give advice that is not relevant to a given situation, even if such advice is useful and correct. Of course I might be in the wrong, just something I've been observing as an avid user of MSFN's Win9x section.

I wonder if we all do that a little. We attend to the problems of others, from our own experiences. And sometimes our advice may be colored by whatever our current projects are.

I have wondered if some people, in the Win9x section, are intentionally sending others on a wild goose chase. Or providing information that leads to a dead end. But, since there are few of us here, I imagine it is more that we want to help one another; even if we don't know enough about the topic(s). It is also possible that personal bias will prevent us from helping someone achieve what we see little point in, or maybe even disagree with.

Although, for some of us, we are doing exactly what we were when Win9x was more current. Socializing with "Win9x" dogma and opinions; be it for aiding or arguing. Some of us will probably find a way to keep doing that, right on in to the "Rocking Chair". That seems to be how it works out with any beloved hobby (talking shop).

Language barriers can make trouble, but we all use these technologies differently. And that in itself can create another barrier. What may apply to your traditional setup, may make no sense to someone else's.

Years ago, coming from a tech position, it was common that I had to help people setup up their machines, for specific needs. Often I configured systems/networks in ways that I would never chose to on my own. I knew they were going to have problems with that setup. But for some reason or another, someone somewhere wanted it that way. And it was my job to give them what they wanted.

If you've ever had to help "fix" a family members PC, you probably know what I mean. The issue you resolve can often be caused by something that the owner will keep on doing. Or worse, the issue comes from the exact way they desire the system configured.

It can be annoying. That annoyance is our own pride, while claiming we just can't tolerate ignorance. I suppose that's because we are all kings, right? I know this is way off topic, so I'll put a sock in it right here. You guys aren't trying to debug people :)

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@Kahenraz We can talk on Discord, but for the preservation of information, we should be discussing this topic here as well, since this seems to be something new I can't remember people talking about before, and the verdicts might be interesting/beneficial for other Win9x related things. We all know Win9x is unstable, it would be nice to understand it more why it is so. :)

@awkduck Very good points. The thing is that I prefer short and concise messages that are straight to the point, hence my gripe with how some people write their posts, of course this is personal preference and not everyone sees this as a problem, nor is it even a problem to begin with.

 

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1 hour ago, MrMateczko said:

@awkduck Very good points. The thing is that I prefer short and concise messages that are straight to the point, hence my gripe with how some people write their posts, of course this is personal preference and not everyone sees this as a problem, nor is it even a problem to begin with.

It certainly works well, when people can match communication modes. What you describe sounds like a "Project" mentality. The kind of conversing found in a bug report thread. But even then, it helps if people have similar wiring. For example, three replies can give the same answer, but not every reader finds it in each.

1 hour ago, MrMateczko said:

@Kahenraz We can talk on Discord, but for the preservation of information, we should be discussing this topic here as well, since this seems to be something new I can't remember people talking about before, and the verdicts might be interesting/beneficial for other Win9x related things. We all know Win9x is unstable, it would be nice to understand it more why it is so. :)

Way cool!

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On 8/14/2022 at 9:51 AM, Kahenraz said:

My primary Windows 98 machine is actually very similar to yours; a Core 2 Duo E6700 with a Radeon X800

Having a radeon instead of a nvidia means it is quite different. Did you try replacing ati2cqag? Having no reply I assume that you have not. In the B_30408 folder rename ati2cqag.dl_ and replace the with the ati2cqag.dl_ from driver 5.9 B_26389. It is only 1kB different in size but makes all the difference.

Good work awkduck.

Edited by Goodmaneuver
better wording
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On 8/12/2022 at 4:50 PM, Goodmaneuver said:

I have under clocked the RAM from 1333 to 800. At the moment if I use 1333, errors in unknown or user.exe in WinME will creep in.

I have replaced USER.exe and USER32.dll from unofficial 4.90.0.3001 back to original 4.90.0.3000. It appears that at this stage the SP files are interfering with my KernelEx and Kexstubs arrangement. The SP USER32 has got extra NT functions that only show up under certain conditions/calls using DW as the dependency test. EDIT struck-through. The SP files were not what was wrong. With this particular build of ME changing back to original files provided a temporary fix. I have backups so there is no concern.

Edited by Goodmaneuver
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