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creating a ramdrive before Windows starts


Cosmin3

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Hi.

I think everybody knows that Windows x86 is limited to 3..3.5 GB RAM.

So, if I buy 8 GB I have to use x64. But, for various reasons, I can't use it (for now).

I have read . But I can't use those workarounds...

Here's a question: is it possible to create, before win loads, a 4.5..5 GB Ramdrive with pagefile (fixed size) on it in the last part of the RAM (where Windows x86 can't "reach")?

This way you can use all the RAM. Having a Virtual Memory file instead of just RAM will slow down the computer a bit, but it's better than nothing.

Probably, over the years, this issue and various solvings were discussed...

So, sorry if my idea seems "dumb" or antiquated :D

Or perhaps someone found another way...

Thank you in advance for any reply.

Best regards, Cosmin3

Edited by Cosmin3
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You just need a ramdisk like Superspeed Ramdisk. I am using it.

But you'll probably loose the crash debug ability.

Thank you.

Which version are you using, Ramdisk or Ramdisk Plus?

Does really creates ramdisk over 4 GB on x86 OS..?

But the most important question: can create only in memory space unaccessible to x86 OS?

And what do you mean exactly by "loose the crash debug ability"?

Edited by Cosmin3
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Ramdisk Plus. It can use any memory (available under os or not).

When windows crash, it create a memory.dmp (if configured correctly) which will help diagnose the cause and this memory.dmp is created if virtual memory if hosted on the C: drive (and the C: drive letter won't be available for the ramdrive). So no more debugging of your crashes or only minidumps.

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Ramdisk Plus. It can use any memory (available under os or not).

Yes, it can use any memory but can be set to specifically use ONLY memory that OS can't see..?

I didn't see that written on that page.

If it can't do that, that's no point using it, because it will take memory that OS is able to use.

When windows crash, it create a memory.dmp (if configured correctly) which will help diagnose the cause and this memory.dmp is created if virtual memory if hosted on the C: drive (and the C: drive letter won't be available for the ramdrive). So no more debugging of your crashes or only minidumps.

I have such crashes only once per several months. And most of the times I know what caused them.

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From the link i pasted above:

Extended memory access  	   	

RamDisk Plus 11 has a most unique feature. Our patent pending technology can access memory beyond the limitation imposed by a Windows 32-bit operating system! In other words, RamDisk Plus 11 can use "unmanaged" Windows' memory e.g. above 4GB. It can also use the stubbornly inaccessable memory between 3.2GB and 4GB.

See the product's help file for detailed explanation of what "unmanaged" memory is and how to access and use it with RamDisk Plus 11.

And yes, it can use only unmanaged meory above 4Gb as written above.... Anyway if you don't trust me, i don't care. It is anoying to help someone and get in return this kind of replies.

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From the link i pasted above:

Extended memory access  	   	

RamDisk Plus 11 has a most unique feature. Our patent pending technology can access memory beyond the limitation imposed by a Windows 32-bit operating system! In other words, RamDisk Plus 11 can use "unmanaged" Windows' memory e.g. above 4GB. It can also use the stubbornly inaccessable memory between 3.2GB and 4GB.

See the product's help file for detailed explanation of what "unmanaged" memory is and how to access and use it with RamDisk Plus 11.

And yes, it can use only unmanaged meory above 4Gb as written above.... Anyway if you don't trust me, i don't care. It is anoying to help someone and get in return this kind of replies.

Yes, I saw that but it doesn't mean that it can be set to use ONLY that memory. It means that it can use ALSO that memory. Which is different.

But maybe I misunderstood.

Look, I'm sorry. Can you please show me how to set this in the program? Because I searched in interface and in Help and I didn't find it...

Thank you.

PS: and I have another problem: I set a pagefile on that ramdrive. But after restart it doesn't seem to be used by Windows. I can even erase it directly.

On that site it says about "system page file support" but I couldn't find anything in interface and Help file.

Could you help me also with that..?

Thank you.

Oh, btw, I have read that Windows XP SP2 and SP3 can't read beyond 3.5..4 GB even with PAE enabled.

And I have XP SP3...

Is it true...?

Edited by Cosmin3
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I don't think you can add a pagefile to the ramdisk, as presumably the ramdisk doesn't appear as a regular storage device that can be access prior to the pagefile initialising.

I'm posting from the pub, on my phone- so can't really look too far into this, but I suspect that's the case.

Perhaps you could locate other files there, eg your temporary internet files, temp folder and suchlike.

Possibly, finding the driver concerned and changing the start type to boot or system will give you the result you're looking for- but if the ramdrive driver has a dependency on something else, you may end up with a non-booting system, requiring safemode or last known good to resolve.

I wouldn't personally try putting a pagefile on a ramdisk. Windows expects pagefiles to be on disk, and are designed as such. How many apps do you have open, using 2GB RAM at any one time, anyway? If the answer is more than one, and you're using x86- you're doing it wrong.

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I don't think you can add a pagefile to the ramdisk, as presumably the ramdisk doesn't appear as a regular storage device that can be access prior to the pagefile initialising.

That's what I thought too but I wanted to be sure. The name of the topic is "Creating a ramdrive before Windows starts" but the ramdrive is created by this application AFTER. So it's not surprising that you can't set a pagefile on it.

I wouldn't personally try putting a pagefile on a ramdisk. Windows expects pagefiles to be on disk, and are designed as such. How many apps do you have open, using 2GB RAM at any one time, anyway? If the answer is more than one, and you're using x86- you're doing it wrong.

Now I have only 2 GB and my HDD is often used by Windows accessing pagefile. I don't have applications which use 2 GB but I have many who use hundreds of MB each. I load and close them frequently and after a while the memory becomes "bloated". I have to restart Windows every 2..3 hours or I can choose to increase Ram size.

So I chose to increase Ram size. I can increase it at 4 or 8 GB (dual channel).

4 GB is average (since only 3..3.5 is available). I don't think it's worth buying and installing that program just for 0.5..1 GB.

But with 8 GB I thought I could do something that I dream for many years: to get rid of the pagefile from the HDD.

But I can't deactivate it completly (some programs are using it), so I'm using a ramdrive (much faster). And it has to be 1.5 x Ram size (recommended value) so Windows wouldn't "protest" sometimes saying that Virtual Memory size is too low. So 8 GB >> 3.2 GB Ram + 4.8 GB ramdrive is just fine.

Some people may disagree with me, that's normal. After all, it's just a dream :D

Edited by Cosmin3
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First you need to configure unmanaged memory: see the ramdrive1.png and ramdrive2.png.

Then you need to create your ramdrive and set it to loaded at boot automatically and without backup (no need to slow down your boot with the loading from disk to ram of the old pagefile).

Then assign a letter ou a mount point to your ramdrive (i set mine to a mount point):

 Volume 6         RAMDISK      FAT32  Partition   2047 MB  Sain
C:\swap

Then i set my pagefile there with regedit (as you can not set pagefile on mount point with the GUI):


HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management
PagingFiles= (REG_MULTI_SZ) "C:\swap\pagefile.sys 2040 2040"

Ramdrive4 is the benchmark with hdtach of the ramdrive.

And i'm sorry adamt but you're totaly wrong.

If you find a benchmark tool for testing only pagefile memory, i'll show you the result on my comp.

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First you need to configure unmanaged memory: see the ramdrive1.png and ramdrive2.png.

Then you need to create your ramdrive and set it to loaded at boot automatically and without backup (no need to slow down your boot with the loading from disk to ram of the old pagefile).

Then assign a letter ou a mount point to your ramdrive (i set mine to a mount point):

 Volume 6         RAMDISK      FAT32  Partition   2047 MB  Sain
C:\swap

Then i set my pagefile there with regedit (as you can not set pagefile on mount point with the GUI):


HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\Memory Management
PagingFiles= (REG_MULTI_SZ) "C:\swap\pagefile.sys 2040 2040"

Ramdrive4 is the benchmark with hdtach of the ramdrive.

And i'm sorry adamt but you're totaly wrong.

If you find a benchmark tool for testing only pagefile memory, i'll show you the result on my comp.

Thank you.

I knew about that registry setting, few days ago I used it to make a program for use at first Windows start after installation. You can read about it at:

Ok, no backup for the ramdrive, it's better this way. But I think it's good to check "Save at system shutdown" option before the first restart, so the empty pagefile could be loaded next time (it's fast, the file in which ramdrive is saved has only 5 MB). After that you can deactivate it.

I'm just curious: is there a way to detect that a pagefile is really used by Windows..?

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allen2, which Windows version do you have on your computer..? 2000, XP, 2003, Vista or 7?

I'm asking because I have found this: http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/system/platform/server/PAE/PAEdrv.mspx

It says that, even with PAE enabled, you can't access more than 4 GB of physical RAM on any Windows XP.

Sorry for bugging you with this but I want to be absolutely sure that it will work on my OS before buying so much RAM and that program...

Thank you.

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I have XP x86 and it use /PAE switch and even Microsoft isn't always right when they speak about their OS. On my mobo (a µatx for mobile cpu) xp doesn't see more than 3GB natively (even with /pae switch) but with those Ramdrive, you can use the memory above 3GB in my case. I had 2 stick on 1GB and i replaced one with a 4GB stick to see if that would work. I suppose the ramdrive driver use a specific api (not a Microsoft one) to address memory above (perhaps it use more than one pointer to address memory).

I'll probably buy a second 4GB stick soon now that i saw the difference between a RAM pagefile and HD pagefile and i'll create two ramdrive one for page file and one for the temporary files.

I'll do this as i am not planning to move to a x64 OS soon.

As for the Microsoft article, i it only speak about classical way. I don't if you knew the first hard drive limitation to 137GB but at first, everyone said it was impossible to overcome but even Microsoft did it (other like most HD manufacturer did it before). Anyway, as the XP will be dropped soon by Microsoft, i don't think they will do anything to overcome the 4GB limitation for free. Most people who use a X64 OS choice it because it could use more then 4GB.

The strange thing about this limit is why pagefile isn't also limited to 4GB (it is also used a memory for programs) ?

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