Building a video editing pc

[CoffeeFiend]

Apples to oranges. XviD can only use 2 cores. Its supposed to use 4, but it doesn't make a difference.

And then again, it's not an isolated benchmark result e.g. it's also faster for winrar and such. Single threaded perf on the Phenoms is pretty bad. It's cheap for a reason, and even at that price (reduced many times) it ain't selling too well... If the performance was actually good, they could charge more, heh.

Use the same comparison with DivX or x264.

DivX? It probably ties, or it must be REAL close (the dual core E8200 still beats that phenom). Totally un-impressive for a quad core that's 50% more expensive and more power hungry.

Again, it all comes down to: do you want to pay 50% more for a CPU with poor single threaded perf that will suck at everything but the one or two tasks that'll make use of all 4 cores (where it's still not that impressive, doubly so considering it gets pwned even by a much older Q6600). He also mentioned he wanted to play some games, and the cheaper E7200 slaughters the phenom for that unsurprisingly.

[weEvil]

He also mentioned he wanted to play some games, and the cheaper E7200 slaughters the phenom for that unsurprisingly.

Most games use 2 threads. Of course 2 fast cores is going to be better than 2 slow cores.

If he gets an AMD system he can upgrade to the new 45nm Phenoms, and then the new ones in the future with Socket AM3 since they will be backwards compatible. They 45nm Deneb are supposed to be much improved. Benchmarks coming really soon.

Socket 775 is done. It ends with E8600 and the Q9650.

Phenom is the right choice. Better stick with an AMD brand board to ensure BIOS updates when AM3 comes around. AMD has beef with the third party manufacturers not updating their BIOS.

[CoffeeFiend]

Most games use 2 threads. Of course 2 fast cores is going to be better than 2 slow cores.

Much like everything else these days (including xvid like you mentioned). That's precisely what I'm saying. You can get decent performance now, for cheap.

If he gets an AMD system he can upgrade to the new 45nm Phenoms

Yes, spend more money later, to hopefully will even match the old Q6600's performance... I'd sooner go with a Q6600 now (which despite of being so old, still beats the absolute fastest phenom available...)

then the new ones in the future with Socket AM3 since they will be backwards compatible

First, you take for granted it'll actually work, whereas the recent past tends to show otherwise (no, you need a AM2+ socket for that phenom, won't work in that old AM2 board! -- and nevermind the TDP issues and other stuff). Plus, motherboard makers have a strong incentive NOT to (as in, selling you a new board to make more profit). Same thing about their performance to have "much improved". They claimed the exact same for the Phenoms, and they've been quite deceiving overall, forcing them to do price cut after price cut to try to sell any...

And by the time his CPU is too outdated and that he's looking for an upgrade, chances are we'll pretty much all have moved to DDR3 and such anyways, and a whole bunch of new stuff as usual. There will likely be plenty of reasons to get a new board regardless, and "future proofing" your computer usually doesn't work all that great. So your rationale is buy something that sucks now/gets beaten by a cheap dual core CPU on 99% of tasks, with hopes it can be upgraded to something decent in a few years by spending some more again. Personally I'll just buy a new Nehalem CPU + new kick a** mobo (X58/ICH10R, 6 DDR3 slots, loads of PCi-e lanes, etc) + fast DDR3 ram then -- probably for not much more either (and it'll likely still beat AMD's offerings' performance by a large margin still).

Edited November 8, 2008 by crahak

[weEvil]

There will likely be plenty of reasons to get a new board regardless, and "future proofing" your computer usually doesn't work all that great. So your rationale is buy something that sucks now/gets beaten by a cheap dual core CPU on 99% of tasks,

Its a video editing PC. If he's serious about it, he will find encoders and software that take advantage of 4 cores (as opposed to dual and even single threaded). The Phenom is the better choice over the E7200 here.

with hopes it can be upgraded to something decent in a few years by spending some more again.

This is the same with any mainstream piece of hardware manufactured, and it will be the same case with the E7200.

Personally I'll just buy a new Nehalem CPU + new kick a** mobo (X58/ICH10R, 6 DDR3 slots, loads of PCi-e lanes, etc) + fast DDR3 ram then -- probably for not much more either (and it'll likely still beat AMD's offerings' performance by a large margin still).

I was looking into that, but Nehalem is far too expensive and it doesn't offer that much of a speed boost for regular apps. Sometimes its slower. It flies on number crunching apps like encoders and render-ers.

AMD's Deneb will be released in the coming weeks. Benchmarks too. Its going to be better than Barcelona, we'll see by how much.

BTW, Phenom is not all bad. Look at these numbers of the gimped X3 core version.

Source: http://publish.it168.com/2008/0327/20080327012308.shtml

[CoffeeFiend]

Its a video editing PC.

The title may suggest so, but if you look at his description, it's more like a general purpose PC that will also do some editing: "This PC will mainly be used for internet, word, music, movies, DVD burning, Macromedia Dreamweaver and Fireworks, and of course gaming." And the vast majority of these tasks will run better on a dual core, than a quad core with slow cores (anything but encoding, and even then not with all apps & codecs). The phenom is just a poor choice for most tasks overall.

but Nehalem is far too expensive

It's not even for sale in most stores yet, so of course it's expensive now. Give it a year or so and it'll come down in price a LOT as it becomes mainstream.

it doesn't offer that much of a speed boost for regular apps. Sometimes its slower. It flies on number crunching apps like encoders and render-ers.

It slaughters all other quads at winrar, xvid & divx encoding (likely x264 too), Mainconcept encoder, Premiere, Cinema 4D (pretty much anything video editing/encoding related seemingly) and most other CPU intensive stuff (just about everything I looked at). Sounds good to me.

BTW, Phenom is not all bad. Look at these numbers of the gimped X3 core version.

Yeah, it has a slight lead in some hand-picked benches. Too bad that for each gaming benchmark where it wins by a slight margin, there's a few dozen others that show it losing. If anything, that makes Lost Planet an exception...

Anyways. Its his choice. I sure ain't buying a phenom anytime soon (unless they drop the price by half or something, but even then the performance is still unimpressive). If AMD wants to sell me a CPU (I'm building 2 new boxes right after xmas), Deneb better bring real performance boosts and be well priced too. And even then, I wonder what AM3 boards will be like (I just don't care for most AM2+ boards out there).

[weEvil]

I sure ain't buying a phenom anytime soon (unless they drop the price by half or something, but even then the performance is still unimpressive). If AMD wants to sell me a CPU (I'm building 2 new boxes right after xmas), Deneb better bring real performance boosts and be well priced too. And even then, I wonder what AM3 boards will be like (I just don't care for most AM2+ boards out there).

Same here. I'm waiting for Deneb. Nehalem isn't an option for awhile because of the pricing. Its going to perform better and run cooler but the real issue is the price. AMD can only do well in the bang/buck department now.

There's some good AM2+ boards. Looked at the SB750 based ones? Supposed to allow for better OCing.

Edited November 8, 2008 by brucevangeorge

[CoffeeFiend]

Nehalem isn't an option for awhile because of the pricing.

Unfortunately that's true I'm at the point where I'll delay building those 2 boxes a couple months if I have to, in order for i7 to be cheaper, or to see if the latest AMD stuff is worth it (AM3 boards mainly)... AM2 stuff doesn't perform good enough IMO, Socket 775 is dead, and i7 is too bloody expensive right now. All we got is 3 bad options (teh suck/dead/bloody expensive)

There's some good AM2+ boards. Looked at the SB750 based ones?

Well, I looked a fair bit. Based on previous experience, I'll avoid anything using nvidia stuff at all costs (video or chipset, be it on a AMD or Intel board), so that already rules out a large amount of them. And then again, AMD boards all seem to sacrifice the nicer ports on the back panel (almost never serial/parallel, few USB, not always spdif/toslink, often no eSATA nor PS/2...) just to include onboard video which typically only has 128MB (already not enough memory, and no dual DVI) that I'm not going to use anyways, and sometimes a firewire port for which I never had a use. I just haven't seen a single AM2+ board I like, at any price point Now if there was something much like a Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS4P, but with a AM3 socket, I'd buy one (assuming their next CPUs are also decent).

[weEvil]

I just haven't seen a single AM2+ board I like, at any price point Now if there was something much like a Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS4P, but with a AM3 socket, I'd buy one (assuming their next CPUs are also decent).

AMD is coming out with a new chipset to replace the 7-series. SB800 based. They might change the layout.

BTW firewire is good for external drives and professional audio/video equipment.

[CoffeeFiend]

AMD is coming out with a new chipset to replace the 7-series. SB800 based. They might change the layout.

Hopefully so! I'll have a peek when we get more details. However, what's the odds of Deneb CPUs performing well (and being well priced) and also new motherboards being nice too (not wasting space for crappy onboard video with only 128MB)? I'm not getting my hopes up just yet.

BTW firewire is good for external drives and professional audio/video equipment.

Firewire isn't that good for external drives, mainly because most computers don't have the port (making it mostly useless) and also because eSATA is MUCH nicer. As for pro AV equipment, Inever had any (at home at least), don't plan on ever buying any either (like most people). I've actually used firewire ports a few times (debug sessions, ibot webcam, networking pre-Gbit ethernet, etc), but I just don't have a need for it (less than ever), and don't foresee ever needing one again. USB3 should make it even more pointless (soon-ish). Even Apple is getting rid of it. In fact, I got like 4 PCI Firewire cards to get rid of...

[weEvil]

Hopefully so! I'll have a peek when we get more details. However, what's the odds of Deneb CPUs performing well (and being well priced) and also new motherboards being nice too (not wasting space for crappy onboard video with only 128MB)? I'm not getting my hopes up just yet.

Its going to perform well relative to Barcelona and clock better. Pricing is anyone's guess.

I've also been looking through the roadmaps and they have some crazy stuff planned. 6-core & 12-core CPUs.

You're buying a motherboard with onboard video. Its just supposed to get the job done. Its better than anything by Intel & nVidia though.

eSATA is MUCH nicer. As for pro AV equipment, Inever had any (at home at least), don't plan on ever buying any either (like most people). I've actually used firewire ports a few times (debug sessions, ibot webcam, networking pre-Gbit ethernet, etc), but I just don't have a need for it (less than ever), and don't foresee ever needing one again. USB3 should make it even more pointless (soon-ish). Even Apple is getting rid of it. In fact, I got like 4 PCI Firewire cards to get rid of...

Yeah eSATA is great. I haven't found many drives that support this though. USB3 should be much better. Its too bad firewire wasn't adopted by the market. It had real potential.

Edited November 10, 2008 by brucevangeorge

[CoffeeFiend]

I've also been looking through the roadmaps and they have some crazy stuff planned. 6-core & 12-core CPUs.

Intel already has some 6 core CPUs (Dunnington), but I'm not too worried about that yet. There's still a lot of stuff that can only make use of a single core... 2 cores is a LOT nicer than one, 4 better than 2, but at some point...

You're buying a motherboard with onboard video.

That's the real issue I guess. What I want, is a board without that... With OSes like Vista & Win 7 making use of the GPU, as well as new apps making use of it (e.g. Adobe CS4 suite & flash player), it's getting more important. 128MB isn't enough even for non-gamers, and I don't want it to use my system memory for that. I'm going to use a ATI card regardless.

After a lot of searching, I finally found one half decent AM2+ board: the Gigabyte GA-MA790X-DS4 (same price as a very nice P45 board pretty much), which still isn't exactly what I'd call perfect (only 4 SATA, no eSATA, only 6 USB, no parallel... and seemingly the mosfets tend to overheat too)

[weEvil]

After a lot of searching, I finally found one half decent AM2+ board: the Gigabyte GA-MA790X-DS4 (same price as a very nice P45 board pretty much), which still isn't exactly what I'd call perfect (only 4 SATA, no eSATA, only 6 USB, no parallel... and seemingly the mosfets tend to overheat too)

Yeah, that sounds pretty barebone. They include the IGP, and forget about the useful stuff like SATA ports.

Maybe its all the southbridge can support.

Edited November 10, 2008 by brucevangeorge

[puntoMX]

ASUS M3A79-T Deluxe is a good board, with eSATA and without the IGP and it uses the SB750 . Sure it´s not a cheap board...

By the way, who cares if something is almost "End Of Life", I always say: You will change your motherboard, RAM and CPU at ones and use the older parts to build something small that serves for other purposes, why throw away a CPU .

[CoffeeFiend]

Sure it´s not a cheap board...

You're not kidding! It's like $250 at ncix (and still no serial ports...) I've seen LGA775 boards just as nice (unless you actually care for 4x PCI-e x16) under $100

[weEvil]

You can get an addon card for serial.

What do you need it for anyways?