Does Slipstreaming Hotfixes Increase ISO Size?

[LeveL]

It seems like the days of slipstreaming dozens upon dozens of hotfixes into Windows and the ISO size remaining (virtually) the same are gone, with Windows XP in nLite this was no problem. I used to throw in a ridiculous amount of hotfixes like 120 or 130 and the ISO increased by only 0.02Mb! Lets face it thats twenty kilobytes and so its irrelevent to even count that as a size increase IMO.

But around May/June when I was only slipstreaming say 5 or 10 hotfixes into Windows Vista with vLite, I could just about squeeze the OS on a 700Mb ISO without removing any services, IE7 or WMP11, in fact I managed to even keep "Windows Mail" after removing the files from the sources folder fro an upgrade (at the time vLite did not do this) but now, I strip EVERY last thing out of Vista in vLite (for test purposes, I would never use a fully stripped one) and slipstream all 95 hotfixes and end up with an ISO thats way oversized like 900Mb or something!

All these:

Windows6.0_KB932471_v2_x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB905866-v12-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB905866-v13-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB925528-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB925902-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB927084-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB928089-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB928439-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929123-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929399-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929427-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929451-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929547-v2-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929615-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929685-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929735-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929761-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929762-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929763-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929777-v2-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929824-v2-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB929916-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB930163-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB930178-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB930194-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB930585-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB930857-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB930955-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB931099-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB931174-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB931213-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB931573-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB931621-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB931671-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB931768-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB931836-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB932246-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB932385-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB932406-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB932590-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB932637-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB932638-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB932649-v3-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB932818-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB932988-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB933360-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB933566-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB933579-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB933590-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB933612-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB933729-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB933872-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB933928-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB935280-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB935652-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB935807-v2-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB935855-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB936004-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB936021-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB936150-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB936357-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB936710-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB936782-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB936824-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB936825-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB937077-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB937123-v2-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB937143-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB938123-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB938126-v3-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB938127-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB938194-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB938637-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB938929-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB938952-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB938979-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB939159-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB939165-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB939653-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB939778-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB939786-v3-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB940069-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB940105-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB940646-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB940716-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB941090-v2-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB941202-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB941229-v2-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB941229-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB941542-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB941600-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB941651-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB942089-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB942813-v3-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB942903-x86.msu
Windows6.0-KB943544-x86.msu

Theres also a few others you have to mess about with to do, that are exe files (BitDefender Update, Windows Update "update" and MSRT), also Windows6.0-KB941649-v2-x86.msu although its a MSU file, does not get slipstreamed by vLite, at least Windows Update claims I need that one after installing, even though i did slipstream it in vLite, heard a lot of people with serious problems with that update, namely unescapable BSOD's (in safe mode!) etc. I just had to silently install it afterwards with /quiet /norestart and its fine. MS have probably fixed the problems it had now.

So - these hotfixes ARE increasing the ISO size by a lot! Its a shame because I used to be able to squeeze Vista onto a 700Mb CD without really losing anything important, now you cannot even strip it completely and fit it on a CD if its got all hotfixes included.

You can't win(dows).

Note: These two hotfixes are absolutely massive;

Windows6.0-KB932637-x86.msu (87.6mb)

Windows6.0-KB932638-x86.msu (95.4Mb)

KB932637 is a language fix for Czech

KB932638 is a language fix for Greek

I wonder if its mainly because of these two massive updates (183Mb for just those 2) that its increasing the ISO size so much?

There another big one:

Windows6.0-KB941229-v2-x86.msu (16.9Mb)

After this they range from 10Mb down to 139Kb.

Edited November 22, 2007 by LeveL

[MagicAndre1981]

Yes, Integration increases size, because the pkgmgr installs the old files into WinSxS folder to store them if you want to uninstall the fix. And I think you donn't need those large fixes, becasue they are only for some specific languages (Greek, Czech and so on).

[LeveL]

Yes, Integration increases size, because the pkgmgr installs the old files into WinSxS folder to store them if you want to uninstall the fix. And I think you donn't need those large fixes, becasue they are only for some specific languages (Greek, Czech and so on).

Thanks, this explains it.

Now I guess my mission is to find out how to not include the uninstall functionality.

It could even be a suggestion for vLite perhaps? To switch on or off the option to be able to uninstall the hotfixes.

I know I don't need those Greek or Czech fixes but Windows Update will say I need them if I don't include them!

I guess its probably possible to:

1 - Mount the WIM image after using vLite.

2 - Removing all the hotfix backup files from the WinSXS folder.

3 - Reseal the WIM image.

WinSXS though... thats no mans land, its so packed with folders with massive long names etc, okay here goes...

[MagicAndre1981]

I don't know a way to tell the pkgmgr to prevent the creation of the uninstall files For the Sp1, there is a clean tool inside the Vista SP1 WAIK. But for normal updates, there is no such tool.

[LeveL]

I am guessing the files are in C:\WINDOWS\winsxs\Backup but I cannot delete anything in there, even after giving myself full control on the permissions for the folder and removing all attributes. Thats on an installed Vista though, I am going to try to delete them all in the WIM image so they never appear there to start with.

[nuhi]

I am planning to review add an option to remove uninstall files, if any when integrated.

[sp00f]

I am guessing the files are in C:\WINDOWS\winsxs\Backup but I cannot delete anything in there, even after giving myself full control on the permissions for the folder and removing all attributes. Thats on an installed Vista though, I am going to try to delete them all in the WIM image so they never appear there to start with.

Did that work?

[MagicAndre1981]

I doubt that. Nuhi is the removal guru, so we must wait for a new vLite version

[LeveL]

I am guessing the files are in C:\WINDOWS\winsxs\Backup but I cannot delete anything in there, even after giving myself full control on the permissions for the folder and removing all attributes. Thats on an installed Vista though, I am going to try to delete them all in the WIM image so they never appear there to start with.

Did that work?

Yes it did work - sort of...

When a WIM image is unmounted, it stores duplicate files only once in the WIM image. Thats how you can have Home, Standard, Business etc all lumped into one DVD and its under 3Gb. I did manage to delete the 1700 or so files in "Windows\winsxs\Backup" and the OS installs fine, but doing that saves no space at all on the ISO, meaning all those files are duplicated somewhere, maybe not the same file names, but the checksums will be the same, so I guess the Backup folder files themselves have backups somewhere! Typical Microsoft, backup of a backup of a backup of a backup.

[Legolash2o]

they dont have to be duplicated, if you rebuilt the image (i.e. run vlite and just rebuild without doing anything) it will be smaller, WIMs amongst over image types don't shrink in size even if you delete half the stuff inside them and have to use 'Save As' method mostly. But on WIMs, the image has to be rebuilt.

Edited November 23, 2007 by legolash2o

[LeveL]

they dont have to be duplicated, if you rebuilt the image (i.e. run vlite and just rebuild without doing anything) it will be smaller, WIMs amongst over image types don't shrink in size even if you delete half the stuff inside them and have to use 'Save As' method mostly. But on WIMs, the image has to be rebuilt.

Yeah the WIM image is a bit bigger, for example if you do this:

Run the image through vLite (just do a tweak or two)

Mount the image with imagex.exe

Remove files from "Windows\winsxs\Backup"

Unmount the WIM image

Then it does end up a tiny bit bigger, run it through vLite and it ends up about the size it was, so what I am saying is, I can remove every file inside "Windows\winsxs\Backup" and still the image is no smaller which means all those files are duplicated somewhere, they have to be, its something like 350Mb of files, compressed thats got to amount to what, at least 50Mb of space in the WIM image or something, I mean you'd lose SOME Mb's off the WIM image from deleting 350Mb worth of files but the image stays the same size.

Nevermind, I am going to integrate all hotfixes into a fresh copy of Vista, then mount the image and use this handy (free) tool to see if those files in "Windows\winsxs\Backup" are duplicated, they must be, if they're not then I will go bonkers!

[Legolash2o]

and still the image is no smaller which means all those files are duplicated somewhere, they have to be

Grrr lol, i don't think you understood so ill repeat it

they are not duplicated, if you rebuilt the image (i.e. run vlite after you unmounted and commit changes,then just rebuild without doing anything (Rebuild not apply method)) it will be smaller, WIMs amongst over image types don't shrink in size even if you delete half the stuff inside them and have to use 'Save As' method mostly. But on WIMs, the image has to be rebuilt.

What im saying is after the

"Mount the image with imagex.exe

Remove files from "Windows\winsxs\Backup"

Unmount the WIM image"

Open vlite again (after) and just click apply > Rebuild method and it should shrink. That's the easiest way.

[LeveL]

Yeah but I am taking already rebuilding it into account!

(choosing to just include the "Ultimate" image in vLite).

I can do that before deleting the Backup files and then run it through vLite again and it doesn't change size.

File comparison that shows all the duplicate files...

NOTE: This scan is from a mounted WIM image that contains ONLY "Windows Vista Ultimate" so none of the duplicate files are from other variants of Vista, because the WIM image only contains Vista Ultimate, it already HAS BEEN rebuilt with vLite to contain only Vista Ultimate.

Its only scanned about 5000 files out of about 40,000 files and in the first 5000 files its already found 3604 out of 5317 files are the SAME file! I underlined this in red on the image above. Ignore that 24% its just how far through scanning it is. What I am saying is, after integrating all the hotfixes, the ISO size goes way bigger, the "Backup" files Windows saves (so you can uninstall hotfixes) are not just there once but twice, or three times, who knows, thats assuming those files are backed up to "Windows\winsxs\Backup" but like I said I have deleted all those and the image size does not change and so that means those Backup files are duplicated somewhere.

Its taking a long time to compare them all, I will post a completed screenshot when its finished, I think when you click the [+] in that program it shows the other locations of the files, but I can't do that yet because its still scanning. I think the 1700 or so files in the Backup folder are also somewhere else but you don't need them because they are just backups! OK so if the dupes are in system32 then you do need them and I will have to try and find out where the Hotfix backup files are. I don't care about uninstalling hotfixes, I never ever want or need to and I don't want a load of old backup files taking up 350Mb in the (uncompressed) image! Probably between 50Mb and 100Mb when its a compressed WIM image.

Edited November 23, 2007 by LeveL

[LeveL]

OK here is the mounted Vista folder, completely scanned.

Its already been run through vLite and all other images except Ultimate have been removed. Therefore - none of these duplicated files are because of other variants of Vista, the image only contains Vista Ultimate.

It says out of 40,953 files, 13,045 files are duplicates!

This amounts to 2.90Gb out of a 7.64Gb installation.

But look at the image, there is no "Windows\winsxs\Backup" folder even listed!

A lot of files from system32 are in that winsxs folder but of course if they are in system32 then they are system files and are needed.

So theres no way for me to know which files are there because of the updates, I am going to have to do this instead:

1 - Install Vista thats not had any updates integrated into it.

2 - Make a snapshot of the installation (files and registry)

3 - Install a hotfix at random (any MSU type hotfix, it doesn't matter which one really)

4 - Do another snapshot and try to work out where these "Backup" files are being stored.

Because the Hotfix backup files are indeed backup files (old files) I can only guess that they only appear once in the installation, somewhere, its just a case of finding out where Windows Vista stores all these useless files.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Edit:

This isn't Vista related but it might at least give some clue:

http://searchwincomputing.techtarget.com/t...1148154,00.html

Someone asking how to do it in Vista but no one answers:

http://www.vistax64.com/vista-general/9715...ckup-files.html

CCleaner does have "Hotfix Uninstallers" listed under "Advanced" maybe that works on Vista, I will check into it. I can use CCleaner and take before and after snapshots to see what changes. Its annoying because the KB number does not even appear in Vista so you can't just find it like you could in XP. For example in XP its here:

C:\WINDOWS\$hf_mig$

But then I only have one KB folder in that folder.

But then again i am running an nlited Windows XP so nLite probably already by default removes the excess backup files.

In XP theres no updates listed if I have "Show Updates" ticked in "Add/Remove Programs" (this is on a full but nLited Windows in that I slipstreamed hotfixes into it with nLite)

Edited November 23, 2007 by LeveL

[nuhi]

LeveL, winsxs contains backup of all windows files, so yes they are doubled, even without any integrations. You can't simply delete those, they are read during component configuration like the one in Control Panel, or when installing a new hotfix.

However some of them are obsolete versions and that is the option I'm considering. Also I'll try to revisit that component which removes 98% of winsxs, if I manage not to break hotfix installations (doubtful).

winsxs\Backup is just a backup of core system files.