Wunderbar98

A C:\BOOTLOG.TXT was generated, no reference to SFC either. Unless someone has more information i'll let it go, thanks.

Of my original Windows 98 SE system from 1999 (450 MHz, 64 MB) the 16 MB Voodoo Banshee graphic card and 17" CRT died on separate occasions within the first 3 years. The rest of the hardware has been separated over the years, most still used, some stored. These old desktop systems are so modular and versatile. The case is used daily as a media centre, upgraded years ago to 1.8 GHz running Debian and Windows XP. It's original CD burner works fine. Don't remember if i still have the original power supply. The motherboard, processor, RAM and 56K modem are in storage. The 6 GB Quantum Fireball IDE drive and SoundBlaster audio card is now used in my slower (800 MHz), DOS-tweaked Windows 98 system. The original PS2 keyboard and mouse is used daily in a different office computer, nothing like a rollerball. The keyboard makes nice clicking action, old dried spacebar grease removed, works like new. The original flatbed scanner still works but sits unused, as the Windows XP printer also scans. The original HP Deskjet 882c printer was reluctantly recycled 10 years ago. Regret getting rid of it, as it still worked great after probably 1000s of pages (business and personal). The Altec Lansing speakers (4 + subwoofer) are in storage, too much sound and bass for daily use, will likely use them again to play Microsoft Train Simulator or Sports Car GT. My faster Windows 98 SE system (1.8 GHz) does not, unfortunately, have any components from the original build. The original Windows 98 SE compact disc wasn't even used, as i burned a copy of this CD years ago to keep the original pristine. This Windows 98 release came with a bootable CD, don't believe the boot floppy was ever used, can't find it, probably recycled. Not including a Commodore VIC-20 as a kid and some Apple lent to me by a client, this was my first true home system. As there was always a computer available in the workplace, purchasing a system was delayed. By 1999 the internet was maturing and it was obvious a computer was essential. I believe internet was the greatest invention of my generation. Unfortunately, the technology can be used for good and evil. My first home internet was free 56K dial-up with banner ads using software received from a fast food restaraunt - those innocent early years. One reason my nostalgia is strong is i assembled and configured this first system myself. The parts were purchased from a small local shop. They had a promotion where the tech would teach you to build the system. I studiously purchased a computer building book beforehand. At least two sessions were spent assembling hardware and loading Windows 98 in the store's back room. Probably won't see that sort of thing anymore, i am forever grateful.

Thanks for responses. As mentioned boot speed doesn't matter much here but it's nice to check this stuff. System File Check every boot on Windows 98 is news to me, don't see anything related to SFC.EXE in SYSTEM.INI, WIN.INI, Startup entries or even RegEdit's 'run' and 'runonce' entries. It would be nice to confirm SFC.EXE at boot, but i don't see it. If it does run at boot, it is a lengthy process and would make a difference. The SFC executable could be disabled then startup re-timed but i would still like to see documentation. I do see 'C:\WINDOWS\SCANREGW.EXE /autorun' at every boot (MSCONFIG.EXE -> Startup tab), which can be disabled, personally i wouldn't and this process doesn't take long. In Windows XP i do not see any service similar to NGEN in either the service utility or task manager. Windows XP is more stable, no doubt, just wanted to isolate startup times. BIOS settings on this system do not have anything for memory protection, HPET or anti-virus.

Thanks @Mr.Scienceman2000. If i get an over-juiced system i will need to try these options. Thus far i've always used native hardware, never requiring SETUP.EXE installation switches. Still pondering an offer on a Pentium 4. Previously i've never paid for old hardware, looks like the law of 'supply and command' (Rickyism - Trailer Park Boys) has shifted. Watched a Doom comparison video that included DOS, SNES, 3DO, Sega 32x or similar. Definite difference between DOS and SNES, which was very pixelated with stepping graphics. Water and weapon effects were also much better in DOS. Completed basic startup/shutdown timings since first time using Windows 98 SE and Windows XP Pro on same hardware. Both systems are set up pretty lean, booting only a basic firewall. Many Windows XP services have been disabled but it also has NET Framework v2, which i've read can slow down boot time. Startup time was from boot menu until the system gets to desktop and busy mouse cursor and hard drive thrashing stop. The Windows 98 boot requires entering both username and password while the Windows XP boot only requires entering the password. The Windows 98 SE boot also requires manually selecting from a secondary hardware configuration menu (with/out NIC). I rushed it so these items only add maybe 5 seconds to the Windows 98 SE boot. Windows 98 startup 40-45 seconds Windows XP startup 60-75 seconds Windows 98 shutdown 04 seconds Windows XP shutdown 15 seconds Overall obviously Windows 98 SE is faster, doesn't matter much, but i can see how back in the day users complained about bloat with every new release. Edit: Accidentally reversed system startup time data.

Thanks for the story @Mr.Scienceman2000, your contributions are welcome and helpful. You have a wonderful collection, an old 486 would be very nice. I regret getting rid of a lot of my 30 pin RAM and 'new' floppies years ago. My situation is similar with Windows, tend to stay further back (Windows 98 era) but with GNU/Linux happiest with newer (eg. OpenSSL, web browsers). Looked at some computer history, 64-bit processors were already invented by 1992 and in 2021 i'm happiest using 32-bit. Your father sounds like a good man, supportive. Keep Windows 98 alive, for sure. Hi @UCyborg, thanks again for your input. Watched a YT video 'Why Was Crysis A Big Deal?' via Windows 98 SE (Spooky Edition) of course. The game came out only a few years after my Windows gaming era but wow, crazy, that game would still look good today. The premise looks interesting too. The DirectX screenshots were nice, maybe the biggest jump from DirectX v7 -> v8. Growing up with Pong, Pac-Man and an Atari 2600, all modern (early 2000s) games look great to me. One of my favourite all-time PC games is old Simcopter, have you seen the graphics :) Thanks for clarifying hardware @Dixel. I'm trying to stay away from Intel's IME (Intel Management Engine, started ~2008) and AMD's PSP (Platform Security Processor, started ~2013) and was browsing some used computers. Funny how everyone seems to own good or perfect condition 'gaming' hardware. Well i play FreeCell on my old Athlon, guess it's a gaming system too. Flaw in AMD Platform Security Processor: https://hackaday.com/2021/10/01/flaw-in-amd-platform-security-processor-affects-millions-of-computers/ Anyway, there was hardly any old stuff, almost all within the last 5-8 years. Someone was selling an old Dell Dimension, based on Pentium D ~2006 era. Sounds like Pentium 4 with Dual Core, SSE2 capable. Online research indicates lacklustre performance, lots of heat. The Dell site has Windows XP and Vista drivers only, would probably be tough getting Windows 98 running. Someone posted notes on Windows 98 with Pentium 4 that may be useful. https://flaterco.com/kb/W98.html Downloaded and quick deleted a DOS game for testing, Formula 1 from Domark. Marketed as the 'fastest racing game on the planet'. Just wanted to compare gameplay to my Sega Genesis version. The DOS version had better music, more detailed track backgrounds (distant buildings) and gameplay was smooth. Makes sense, by 1994 early Pentium 60-100 MHz processors were available and the old Sega Genesis has an ~7 MHz processor. To me PC games were almost always superior to their console counterparts.

== Multi-boot Windows 9x with current GNU/Linux == If anyone wants to dual boot older Windows 9x hardware with current GNU/Linux and experiences graphic issues, this works here. Install GNU/Linux system, here Debian-based (Devuan) is used with netinstaller and wired connection. Install Xorg, favourite window manager and correct graphic driver from repository. To clarify hardware install and run 'lshw', example. sudo lshw | less Launch graphics, 'startx' if system boots to text mode with no graphic login manager installed. startx If graphics start with desired resolution stop here, otherwise run 'xrandr' to see what's available. xrandr If 'xrandr' lists desired resolution then use system's GUI to modify resolution, if you have a desktop environment like Xfce, stop here. Otherwise set up a custom /etc/X11/xorg.conf file similar to example at the bottom, deleting the 'Modeline' and 'PreferredMode' entries in the 'Monitor' section and fleshing out the 'Screen' section similar to the example snippet below. Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Card0" DefaultDepth 24 SubSection "Display" Depth 24 Modes "1152x864" EndSubSection EndSection To force a resolution not listed by 'xrandr', use the 'cvt' command with your desired resolution parameters to get a 'Modeline' specific to your hardware, example: cvt 1152 864 On this system, above returns: Modeline "1152x864_60.00" 81.75 1152 1216 1336 1520 864 867 871 897 -hsync +vsync Create a basic /etc/X11/xorg.conf file, pasting the 'Modeline', customizing the driver and other entries as desired, example below. Section "Monitor" Identifier "Monitor0" Modeline "1152x864_60.00" 81.75 1152 1216 1336 1520 864 867 871 897 -hsync +vsync Option "PreferredMode" "1152x864" EndSection Section "Device" Identifier "Card0" Driver "nouveau" EndSection Section "Screen" Identifier "Screen0" Device "Card0" Monitor "Monitor0" EndSection Restart graphic mode to test. Note: If you can't start graphic mode at all then use 'vi' or 'nano' file editors from TTY. First try the Vesa driver to get basic graphics then upgrade the driver (subsitute 'nouveau' with 'vesa', max resolution 1024 x 768). Note: Graphics on hardware ~2010 and newer usually just works but this old Windows 9x hardware now requires special attention. There are occasional regressions in GNU/Linux too. Not usually intentional, like Microsoft or Apple, moreso because not many still use, test or bug report this old hardware.

Hi @Gansangriff, GNU/Linux graphics is only difficult here with older hardware, newer hardware (2010 era) no problem. Still can't complain, GNU/Linux runs most servers and the world's supercomputers, yet still provides new kernels and software for 32-bit systems. When setting up a new system i don't need to hunt around at random websites for drivers and software, most everything is in the repository. Hardware is typically recognized without tinkering, including sound and basic graphics. Yes if you need to disable window drawing to move them around something isn't right. One system i had a similar issue running OpenBox so i switched to Fluxbox and everything was good. Xfce is good, haven't used it in years. Here it's MATE, LXDE, OpenBox and Fluxbox. In GNU/Linux you can install as many window managers or desktop environments as you want and boot whichever one. Once i find the right hardware and driver then graphics aren't an issue, but i don't game in GNU/Linux like many now do. In all fairness, Windows gamers and power users often swap hardware as well to get software running to their satisfaction. Plus Windows Vista already left most of my hardware behind many years ago. I use GNU/Linux with CRT and flatscreen, desktops and netbook. There seems to be a regression in newer kernels recognizing CRT capability, plus Xorg graphics now seems to want nothing less than 24-bit color depth. If a proprietory graphic driver doesn't work well there's usually a free reverse engineered driver and the Vesa driver can always be used as fallback. Vesa just offers something like 1024x768 max but there's never a noticable performance issue for window management. One of my systems happily uses the 'nouveau' driver, free/libre software drivers for nVidia cards. Hi @Dixel, to you it's ancient, to me it's new, no hardware close to that here. You could always fry some eggs and bacon with that heat. To me the same old shell game, bloat the software, juice up the hardware. Proprietary software and hardware developers are happy as pigs in mud making money to infinity and beyond. Hi @UCyborg, you're obviously an advanced gamer. Most cases whatever graphic card is installed happily runs my (old) games, even if i have to turn down resolution or other game options. I just try to install more intensive games on faster hardware and use older hardware for basic games. Only one of my GPUs has a cooling fan. Ah, the click of death. I've had one hard drive clicking for years, still not dead, sometimes fails to startup but always revives somehow (non-critical data).

Thanks for the summary @Mr.Scienceman2000. My soldering skills are only fair with less than ideal equipment. Usually the solder works, sometimes not. Bit of a bull in a china shop situation. When my workplace switched to Windows NT 4.0, i remember how smooth and stable it was. Any slowness wasn't noticed as the new OS shipped with upgraded hardware. System requirements for older NT is still pretty low by any modern standard. Most would say NT was a superior product and i would be forced to agree, just don't tell anyone i said that ;) My faster 1.8 GHz Windows 98 system is pretty much done. Downloaded the motherboard manual and connected the tower speaker and eight USB leads (2 front ports). Retro computing isn't legit without a system beep. Nice no longer crawling around for USB ports. A second IDE drive was added and partitioned. As my first Windows 98 hard drive was a 6 GB Quantum Fireball, for nostalgia subsequent Windows 98 installs use a 6 GB drive or partition. MSI K7N2 (MS-6570) motherboard (BIOS date 2004) using onboard sound and ethernet, AMD Athlon 2500 (1.8 GHz), 1.5 GB RAM using R. Loews PATCHMEM, NVIDIA MX400 graphics (64 MB AGP), two IDE Drives (6 and 40 GB), CD burner, no floppy, big old case with working switches and LED lights, PS2 mouse and keyboard, KVM switch, 19" ViewSonic CRT monitor, generic desktop speakers. Less capable than a Raspberry Pi and the tower is estimated to be at least 160x heavier. Won't bother with an electical consumption estimate. The system now multi-boots Windows 98 SE, Windows 2000 Pro, Windows XP Pro and Devuan Beowulf (current stable) using Grub2 bootloader. I usually embed Tiny Core or Puppy Linux but not this time, don't use them much anymore. All OS' are fully setup except Windows 2000 is still just a base install, it will be a fun winter project. Now DOS, early-mid Windows applications and ~57,000 readily available Debian packages can be run from the same hardware. It is doubtful this system will be used much for pure DOS as the slower system is more suited and fully set up. Windows 98 SE uses primarily RetroZilla. Web browsers used in Devuan are SeaMonkey v2.49.4 (last non-SSE2 capable release) and Firefox ESR v78. The lack of SSE2 will eventually kill this system too but for now it's pretty much fully capable.

Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000. There must be a contract, big companies sharing data and servers. You have a cool and secure setup. Systems here are wired 99% of the time, only wireless on a hobby system. I remember watching Battlestar Galactica (2004 series). To me the 1970s show was better just technically limited. For security reasons Commander Adama was adamant computer systems on the bridge were never networked with the ship. The storyline was crazy but anyway, next season a human-looking Cylon interfaced directly with a bridge computer through a wrist port to help the humans. This begs the question, if human-looking Cylons had wrist ports why the heck did it take Gaius Baltar so long to identify Cylons on board the ship. A quick round of wrist x-rays for all personnel and by afternoon coffeebreak it would all be settled :) A Pentium 4 would be nice, my faster AMD does not support SSE2. Having said that, may last Penium 4 died and took a power supply along for the ride. There was a thread here about capacitor plague, the Pentium 4 boards have so many capacitors. Some day i would still like one again, an old SSE2 capable system would serve all my present computing needs. It is sweet spot hardware. The NVIDIA MX400 (64 MB AGP) i mentioned earlier replaced an ATI Rage Pro (32 MB AGP). The Rage Pro worked perfectly in Windows 98 but the legacy ATI driver for Debian-based systems is poor. Since my builds are multi-boot with GNU/Linux, now i have five Windows 98 era ATI graphic cards that may never be used. This 32 MB ATI card was the most capable, the others are older. Just mentioning in case someone is trying to decide what may work for their needs. NVIDIA gets slammed, famously by Linus Torvalds, but my old NVIDIA cards work great in both old Windows and modern GNU/Linux. Had a cool experience today streaming HTTP music in DOS using 'MPXPLAY Audio player v1.65 for DOS and Windows by PDSoft (Attila Padar, Hungary)'. Loaded DOS mouse and packet driver, started MPXPLAY, opened a VLC streaming playlist (*.m3u file) and streamed my favourite channels. Streaming 'polkaheaven' in DOS in 2021 is a treat. The player was okay, the interface is pretty good. The screen is busy with a flashing cursor and audio visualizations. It froze when attempting to toggle controls, probably just me. Maybe the visualizations can be toned down, didn't investigate. http://mpxplay.sourceforge.net/ Good experience but i must say it feels limiting in DOS, guess it reflects a different era. Now when streaming music or video people expect to have several applications running at once, shifting back and forth. In DOS it's usually one thing at a time, sometimes rebooting between applications to reset memory or load different drivers. There are surely still DOS purists around but i would imagine as Windows evolved most users never returned to DOS-only. Makes me think of the old, old days (as seen on TV) when families would simply sit together around a radio or record player.

Links v2.25 for DOS is available, download and changelog links on first post, OpenSSL related. Briefly tested, seems good. Last two releases incrementally smaller (7318528 -> 7309824 -> 7309312 bytes), sweet.

Thanks for all responses. An old workplace didn't provide system admin rights, when working on the road i would bring small games that didn't need installation. My faster Windows 98 install @Mr.Scienceman2000 uses NVIDIA GeForce2 MX400 (64 MB AGP, Forceware v71.84) and DirectX9.0c. Basic tests like DirectDraw and Direct3D are good, the system runs stable. No games installed yet. So @j7n you're then having to manually modify the registry for true bold. If you later use DisplaySet again to save changes then your preferred registry tweaks get reverted? Maybe i'm misunderstanding, nobody called 'computer programs viruses'? I indicated above viruses for these old systems may no longer exist in the wild. Some time ago i referenced modern Firefox as being spyware (IMHO). This is not the same as calling it a virus. Nor is referencing a single application the same as calling all 'computer programs' viruses. Regardless, people have good reason to be apprehensive about using systems online, so many examples making the news. Maybe you've been fortunate, through diligence or luck. In regards to the Firefox spyware reference, for example: https://spyware.neocities.org/articles/firefox.html Open an old browser, like RetroZilla based on SeaMonkey v1. In about:config filter 'http' and you get nothing. Newer Firefox releases have dozens of HTTP entries (calling home) but they've removed the ability to filter search 'http' and toggle view (eg. default/modified), why? Well then just filter search 'google', that trusted, cuddly company with your best interests in mind, example: browser.safebrowsing.provider.google.advisoryURL https://developers.google.com/safe-browsing/v4/advisory These are URLs built into Firefox's code, you won't see this in lean, calm browsers like Dillo or Links. Or just patiently scroll all about:config, hiding in plain site. Personally i don't feel safer (Safebrowsing) knowing Google is using telemetry while banking. https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=mozilla.lockbox&referrer=utm_source%3Dprotection_report%26utm_content%3Dmobile_promotion https://apps.apple.com/app/id1314000270 https://www.mozilla.org/%LOCALE%/firefox/geolocation/ https://www.youtube.com/,https://www.facebook.com/,https://www.reddit.com/,https://www.wikipedia.org/,https://www.amazon.ca/,https://twitter.com/ https://incoming.telemetry.mozilla.org/submit/sslreports/ Sites like ghacks exist because Firefox's default configuration is not as safe and secure as advertised. https://www.ghacks.net/2015/08/18/a-comprehensive-list-of-firefox-privacy-and-security-settings/ A service does not need to be running, referencing backdoors, just a connection. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backdoor_(computing) Intel Management Engine (ME), just one example, there are also lots of software backdoors: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Management_Engine - The ME always runs as long as the motherboard is receiving power. - The ME is an attractive target for hackers, since it has top level access to all devices and completely bypasses the operating system. - The ME itself is built into all Intel chipsets since 2008, not only those with AMT. - The subsystem primarily consists of proprietary firmware running on a separate microprocessor that performs tasks during boot-up, while the computer is running, and while it is asleep. - Intel claims the ME is required to provide full performance. Its exact workings are largely undocumented and its code is obfuscated using confidential Huffman tables stored directly in hardware, so the firmware does not contain the information necessary to decode its contents. - The ME has its own MAC and IP address for the out-of-band interface, with direct access to the Ethernet controller; one portion of the Ethernet traffic is diverted to the ME even before reaching the host's operating system, for what support exists in various Ethernet controllers, exported and made configurable via Management Component Transport Protocol (MCTP). The ME also communicates with the host via PCI interface. - Several weaknesses have been found in the ME. In May 2017, Intel confirmed that many computers with AMT have had an unpatched critical privilege escalation vulnerability (CVE-2017-5689). The vulnerability, which was nicknamed "Silent Bob is Silent" by the researchers who had reported it to Intel, affects numerous laptops, desktops and servers sold by Dell, Fujitsu, Hewlett-Packard (later Hewlett Packard Enterprise and HP Inc.), Intel, Lenovo, and possibly others. - "Full control of affected machines, including the ability to read and modify everything. It can be used to install persistent malware (possibly in firmware), and read and modify any data." - Tatu Ylönen, ssh.com - In 20 November, 2017 Intel confirmed that a number of serious flaws had been found in the ME, Trusted Execution Engine (tablet/mobile), and Server Platform Services (high end server) firmware, and released a "critical firmware update". - Essentially every Intel-based computer for the last several years, including most desktops and servers, were found to be vulnerable to having their security compromised, although all the potential routes of exploitation were not entirely known. - Critics like the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF), Libreboot developers, and security expert Damien Zammit accused the ME of being a backdoor and a privacy concern. Zammit stresses that the ME has full access to memory (without the owner-controlled CPU cores having any knowledge), and has full access to the TCP/IP stack and can send and receive network packets independently of the operating system, thus bypassing its firewall. - In the context of criticism of the Intel ME and AMD Secure Technology it has been pointed out that the National Security Agency (NSA) budget request for 2013 contained a Sigint Enabling Project with the goal to "Insert vulnerabilities into commercial encryption systems, IT systems, …" and it has been conjectured that Intel ME and AMD Secure Technology might be part of that program. - As of 2017, Google was attempting to eliminate proprietary firmware from its servers and found that the ME was a hurdle to that. Like the example above, software firewalls can be bypassed, and most users don't own (ie. have full control) over their network router either, typically provided by their ISP.

@Wunderbar98 Teddy avatar courtesy of Windows 98 tools, most built-in. Working at pixel level, shading and blending, is always enjoyable. Unfortunately RetroZilla can't upload files to this forum, drat, drat and double drat. - RetroZilla with ImageZoom extension - Screenshot (Alt-PrintScreen) - Kodak Imaging for Windows (C:\WINDOWS\KODAKIMG.EXE) - Microsoft Paint

Hi @Mr.Scienceman2000. If you multi-boot, sounds like you may with GNU/Linux, then backing up a Windows 9x install is as easy as copy/paste, or 'cp -axv Windows_root_directory/* Destination_directory', then if 'lite' fails the system is easy to restore. The faster Windows 98 system i'm tweaking now is almost fully finished, don't want to mess around. I did, however, successfully do this with another install using batch script based software, not 98Lite. Don't recall the name, mentioned in this thread but today i'm tired. Another 'lite' attempt, on an established setup, wasn't as successful, things like graphic and sound drivers broke. I didn't have time to deal with the mess and just restored from backup. Please correct if wrong, to me it's best to setup a 'lite' system after a base Windows 98 install, before drivers and much tweaking. Unless someone has better ideas, i plan to try this next time a fresh Windows 98 system is needed. - Install Windows 98 base system (avoid most extra software) - Install Windows 98 update patches (i do mine manually) - Run favourite 'lite' software - Install drivers (graphics, sound, etc) - Install favourite software - Tweak *** Figured out something else about this forum software. Member signatures only appear when i'm logged in, nothing to do with CSS. Still tweaking my RetroZilla userContent.css file, hope to upload (dump) to the RetroZilla thread soon. Seems to make this forum easier to visualize, some additional globabl tweaks too. Personally i hate messing with this stuff, nothing personal to those who enjoy it. Spending effort getting a single website working better seems like a poor use of time. On the other hand, most 'global' configurations aren't overly useful, they may make some sites better but cause breakage in others.

Hi @j7n. As per help file DisplaySet runs under Windows 95, Windows 98, Windows ME, Windows NT 4, and Windows 2000. From what i see you can just Bold toggle on/off, no font weight option, maybe something new for Windows 2003. Also when looking at Display Properties -> Appearance in Windows 98 there is no font weight option. Came across 'Malicious Mobile Code: Virus Protection for Windows' (OReilly Computer Security, 2001). Maybe everything you want to know about viruses, malicious code, etc, going right back to DOS. https://flylib.com/books/en/1.47.1/ Not sure there are still active viruses in the wild for these old systems. Regardless better safe than sorry, highly recommend setting up any system as security as possible, unless it's unplugged, without sacrificing too much function. Following @Mr.Scienceman2000's post a while back, ActiveX settings on this system are now hardened too. Some day i would like to go 'lite' and remove or disable most of the OS but that's a whole other project. I remember reading someone stripped a Windows 95 system down to 10 MB, cool. *** j7n wrote: The analogy of computer programs to biological viruses has been stretched too far. Some people believe that connecting a cable to a computer will possible "infect" it. I think that if a computer program started randomly mutating, overwriting its code, there is no real chance that it would do something useful and crash every time. *** Not a virus but me thinks if your hardware has a back door that is not disabled then all that is needed for malicious activity is to be hooked up to a network. If the code is automated there doesn't need to be a black hat on the other side (like movies). When 'modern' people randomly start using public or other private WiFi, they have no control over the router, router settings, hardware firewall, etc. I'm not a virus expert in any way but if i was to write malicious code to overwrite hard drive data, for example, it would make sense to strategically target a specific operating system (so you know the file structure). First wipe everything in 'My Documents' and other personal data locations so the operating system remains functional. Then selectively remove non-critical then critical operating system files. The system either disintegrates in real time or by next reboot it's pooched. Of course there are better, more surgical methods, such as targeting the drive's MBR, specific Windows executables or registry entries. This is why i don't understand your comment, i don't think a hacker would intentionally wipe out his own code/executable until the desired destruction has been completed. Then the payload could be intentionally wiped or moved in attempt to hide tracks.

I've never been a Palemoon fan, regardless there's been chatter on this forum regarding recent developments. Anyway, MSFN you're not alone. Didn't want to hijack the 'My Browser Builds thread' so just dumping this link here. Palemoon drama has gotten bad http://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=4548

Thanks for all responses. Keep it on topic yous guys or clubhouse KP duty will be assigned. Just joking, nice to see chatter, these are hard times. No hard feelings either @D.Draker, maybe you were just having a hard day, you're welcome anytime. Obviously i can still differentiate between a car and a computer, but I just ask that if members are talking about other OS' or applications that run on other OS' that it be very clear to avoid confusing this lowly Windows 9x simpleton, TIA. Hi @j7n, i've had mixed experiences with CRT. My first CRT broke after 3 years but my current (old) CRTs just won't die. Regarding viruses, i don't have much experience thankfully, but if they weren't a big deal ask someone who lost data or had to rebuild a system. Seems there are more computer worries now than viruses (backdoors, malware, etc). I remember the fascination with Java back in the day, it was versatile and cross platform. An introductory programming class taken in about 2000 used Java. It's fun but performance wise not so much. Opening the Java control panel applet takes 5x longer than any other item. Here using Sun Microsystems Java 2 Runtime Environment 5.0 Update 22 (version 1.5.0_22 from 2009). The only application it's used for here is Risk (yura.net), gameplay is a little sluggish too but in a cool way. First Java usage attempts to access the internet, permanently blocked by Tiny Personal Firewall v2.0.14. It would have been nice if Start Menu -> Run box featured autocomplete, though i realize the Tab key traditionally cycles Window control buttons. To be fair the official DOS release of DOSKEY.COM didn't have this feature either, needed to install 3rd party Enhanced DOSKEY. Since Enhanced DOSKEY is one of the first applications installed here on a new build, often it's easier to launch applications from a COMMAND.COM window instead of the Run box. Came across C:\WINDOWS\QFECHECK.EXE while studying a script. I've seen this executable many times (bright yellow lightbulb icon) but never investigated. This could definitely be a useful tool, especially in the days when regular updates were being released, but even now to confirm the manual or 3rd party automatic install of Windows updates. *** QFECHECK.EXE: You can use this tool to find out which versions of updated system files are installed on your computer. You can also check to see whether the versions installed match the versions listed in your computer's registry. *** Seems a lot of 3rd party developers back then marketed software that provided system information from data that was, obviously, already present on the system. Often just collected or presented in a different manner or maybe added a slight twist or bonus feature. Looking for hardware specs the other day, there are lots of areas to check in a vanilla install for information: - Ctrl-Alt-Delete (task manager) - Control Panel -> System - Windows Explorer right-click C: properties - Desktop -> My Computer - Start menu -> System Tools -> System Information - Start menu -> System Tools -> System Monitor - Run box -> HWINFO.EXE /UI - Run box -> DXDIAG.EXE There was an old interesting thread here concerning Windows update KB891711, whether it should be included in a 3rd party service pack. *** The file KB891711.exe file is found on Windows 98, Windows 98 SE, and Windows Millenium operating systems. Its a Windows security update file protecting against a "Vulnerability in cursor and icon format handling could allow remote code execution". With the April 12, 2005 release of the file it runs as a service from the following registry entry: HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\RunServices Name Data KB891711 C:\WINDOWS\SYSTEM\KB891711\KB891711.EXE *** After the update, the service is active during runtime. It isn't identified via Task Manager (Ctrl-Alt-Delete) but gets picked up by Process Explorer. The file C:\WINDOWS\KB891711\KB891711.EXE should be version 4.10.2223. A funny comment from a member who didn't want any extra services running because he was a 'gamer', running 450 MHz with something like 256 MB RAM in 2005-ish. He was ridiculed without mercy, just joking - lol. FreeCell game #86 gave some grief if anyone wants a little challenge, maybe my head just wasn't screwed on straight, finished and moving on.

Thanks for all the Windows 98 tips @Mr.Scienceman2000, probably lots of users with 'newer' edge case hardware, thankfully i've been spoiled. Anyone who modifies INF files for driver installation is automatically considered for Windows 9x Geezer of the Year. Visit my basement for your pick of NIC or sound card, plus the parking spot closest to the club house entry is reserved for you until the end of the year :) Eligibile Windows 9x Geezer of the Year recipients must meet at least one of the following criteria: - successfully manipulated an unsupported hardware driver - run unsupported hardware (or hardware exceeding original OS specs) - run Windows 9x on real hardware (not in storage or VM) - at least 20 years of Windows 9x experience - compiled software for Windows 9x this year - used DOS for web browsing this year - scratch coded at least one batch file this year Nvidia removing old drivers, crazy, thanks for the update. For me downloading drivers from 3rd party is cringeworthy, last resort. Slowly i've been installing Windows 98, XP and now Windows 2000 across various hardware, hoarding the drivers. As usual thanks for your input @UCyborg. For anyone who isn't aware, many XPI browser extensions have been preserved at the site that archives stuff. I worked on this previously: Firefox Legacy Collector URLs https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-vanilla-windows-98-in-2020-and-beyond/page/16/?tab=comments#comment-1175476 Classic Theme Restorer was popular, that's saying something about the popularity of Australis, but i never used it. That was enough for me to switch to SeaMonkey, still my favourite full-featured browser. Regarding your workplace experience, yes me thinks most users don't tweak Windows much and just use it as-is, or maybe workplace restrictions. Shame as there are lots of possibilities. Thanks for clarifying longstanding no Alt-F4 close for COMMAND.COM, just new to me then. I like my vehicles just like my computers, old. Now i'm that old guy driving the old pickup he bought new in his younger years. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Lightbulbs are easy and cheap to replace. Less sophisticated stuff to go wrong. Speedbumps won't wreck the undercarriage. Everything is accessible and maintainable, can easily slide underneath to change the oil and grease the drivetrain. Still has most of the important safety features (air bags, side beams, anti-lock, traction control), just no modern sensory overload. I still manually shift gears, same satisfaction as installing an OS from scratch. ### The 'Quick and Dirty YouTube' script on page 41 of this thread was re-tested. Still works fine and gets a decent 640x360 resolution video that should work well on most Windows 9x systems. The 'Quick and Dirty MSN Video' script was updated, bottom of page 41, to process video titles containing commas and pipes. https://msfn.org/board/topic/177106-running-vanilla-windows-98-in-2020-and-beyond/page/41/?tab=comments#comment-1199501 Both Quick and Dirty posts have links to download and set up 'Enhanced Cygwin-Lite', necessary for the script. When first testing the MSN script on another Windows 98 system Wget output indicated SSL connection error. This old Wget can't connect to MSN's HTTPS. Thankfully, however, it does connect fine to YouTube's HTTPS. So for MSN video bookmark the HTTP-only URL in your web browser of choice, similar to below, adjust for your country. Nice Microsoft still provides this. http://www.msn.com/en-ca/video

That would be a wonderful banking site @Mr.Scienceman2000, sign me up. Still don't understand why the majority don't see JavaScript as unauthorized, unaudited code execution. Thanks for the soundcard suggestions, hopefully someone will find it useful, i'll just grab something from storage. Forgot about Microsoft Bob, you know your MS history. Here in redneck central speedbumps barely flex the suspension of the average pickup truck. Hi @Dixel, try it if you find official drivers otherwise personally i would swap out with known supported hardware or at least hardware from the best supported era (maybe 1995-2004). IIRC official Windows 98 support ended in 2006 so your hardware may be okay. https://www.cnet.com/tech/services-and-software/microsoft-puts-end-to-windows-98-support/ The other day i needed a Windows XP hotfix for known Microsoft breakage following Internet Explorer upgrade. I couldn't find it in the Microsoft Update Catalogue so it was downloaded from an unknown (to me) third party site. The hotfix was manually extracted and compared to another non-English release to estimate if it was actually legitimate, still leaving doubt. Thankfully the hotfix worked but still it would be nice if Microsoft could maintain a server with a few gigabytes of archived patches. Most distributions, like Debian, make it easy to get archives, even back to their first release (Debian Buzz 1996). http://archive.debian.org/debian-archive/debian/dists/ And of course more modern releases. http://ftp.debian.org/debian/dists/ Last week some 2004 era motherboard drivers were also easily downloaded directly from the vendor's site (MSI) and old DOS stuff can still be found. Come on Microsoft help out us little guys, we just want to run our systems as safely as possible without breakage. Consider it a small contribution to reducing (hardware) waste. Future profit margins aren't sustainable anyway if the planet gets decimated.

All the drama, geez peoples. FWIW @Mr.Scienceman2000 your posts are informative and interesting, thanks for your contributions. Did some quick searching for ActiveX exploits and came across this, probably just scratching the surface. https://flylib.com/books/en/1.47.1.112/1/ Interestingly on new Windows installs many of my personal preferences are opposite default, even installer choices, as many 'features' are perceived as unnecessary or security holes. To me this provides a safer, calm computing environment. Your comment regarding less compatible code, for sure. If i was king developers would still edit HTML by hand, CSS would be frowned upon and JavaScript banned, along with anything else that can't generically run in any browser. Oh yeah, infinite scrolling would also be banned. Who came up with that, guessing some marketer wanting to keep you hooked. Stop scrolling for a while, turn off the computer and get some sleep. If you're addicted to a smartphone, rest those weary opposible thumbs. When i think back to 'important' websites from years back (eg. email, bank), the web interface was generally very functional and efficient. Now there are so many icons and menus, so much clutter, hamburgers, hover text, scripts, etc. IMHO most modern sites do not provide much more valuable information, mostly marketing and noise, and they take much more processing to navigate. Thank-you also for your gamepad comments @Mr.Scienceman2000, nice to see Windows 9x can use some modern controllers. The only gaming controller used here needs an old fashioned gamepad port. The 'faster' Windows 98 system i'm setting up has no such port, unless a proper sound card gets installed. Maybe i'll just use that system for keyboard/mouse games, many of my favourites don't need a gamepad anyway. I've been using more recent Firefox lately. From poor memory, remember the 'Australis' phase some years ago. To me a crazy mess, rounded tabs wasting precious pixel space, hidden menubar, tabs above the navigation/URL bar, traditional navigation buttons removed or shuffled, introduction of 'hamburgers', etc. Even worse it was intentionally designed not to be easily revertable, abandoning many loyal followers. Well to my surprise recent Firefox seems to have reverted to some common sense, tabs are square again and the menubar is easy to re-activate. Still to me it's modern day spyware, the irony. Firefox usership is presently very low, hopefully it will survive. Much of this seems similar to Windows abandoning the Start menu with newer releases. What a pity, such a functional interface. Why not keep it default and allow an option to remove as desired. Gramma and grampa would definitely approve, so would multitudes of office workers that just want to get their jobs done. My favourite interface ever remains Openbox on Unix-like systems but most users don't want to waste time tweaking every little thing. In Windows i'm usually click-happy. Just noticed a COMMAND.COM 'window' can't be closed using the usual Alt-F4, Alt-x or Escape keys. Of course clicking on the close button or issuing 'exit' works, still odd. Maybe just reminds the user, hey you're using the power of DOS now. Hi @UCyborg. Yes it's definitely easy to get distracted these days, glad it's not just me. Hopefully i won't get a ticket in the mail from an incident today. I was waiting to turn left in an intersection, yes i crossed the white line to wait as everyone does these days, and there was a speeding van approaching that didn't look like it would stop when the light turned yellow. So there i sat idle, waiting for him to slam on the brakes and dive to a stop, before safely exiting the intersection. 3D zebra crossing, how cool, had to look it up. Hopefully it makes a difference, it's not safe for pedestrians or cyclists anymore.

Links v2.24 for DOS is available, download and changelog links on first post. Briefly tested, seems good, fast as ever, still a go to DOS browser.

Thanks for the hint @RainyShadow, i created a userContent.css entry for the MSFN domain and will eventually make it available from the RetroZilla Community Edition thread. Didn't realize '@forum_member' was white on white. So far i've hacked something that displays '@forum_member' names, makes all white text visible, shrinks oversized/stretched avatar pictures and properly box wraps quoted text from previous posts (otherwise very confusing). Still no member signatures, needs tweaking but low priority. Forum member @Siria posted lots of info about this topic, will review this too. Spending time with modern browsers makes one realize how broken most sites appear in RetroZilla. By the way @Mr.Scienceman2000, your screenshot above is not visible in RetroZilla even with JavaScript enabled. I did see the picture on a newer system, thank-you for posting, always great to see other's setups. Thank-you also for your other posts and information. I meant a 200 MB MP4 file was big in the Windows 9x era for processing, not drive space, back when anything over 64 MB RAM was lots. For me MPlayer (not Windows' media player) is still the leanest for daily usage. Agreed on the smartphone, adds another layer of complexity that can lead to breakdown. Being without a phone for even a single minute makes me laugh, i am not overly social to begin with but there are many days my flip phone doesn't get turned on. I wish you well @Gansangriff with your FrogFind contribution. Maybe i'm wrong, looks like the project currently uses Google, so evil. Thanks for your contribution @ArcticFoxie, mental health and social media is a big issue, amongst so many big issues. A neighbour was so distracted last year, using her smartphone in the driveway before taking off, she almost hit a kid riding a bicycle on the sidewalk. Middle of the day, good visibility, big/tall enough kid, mother nearby. This is getting really crazy. Your system with 98Lite is vanilla enough @Mr.Scienceman2000. The 'vanilla' nomenclature started for me during an episode of much frustration over what software versions actually ran on a default Windows 98 install. The forum was littered with many confusing posts of systems running KernelEx or various upgrade pack combinations. So to me you've stripped Windows 98 further, whatever runs on your system should probably run fine on my 'vanilla' system. Your hardware and software tweaks are cool and amazing, should make for an extremely efficient and functional system. Two additonal Dillo web browsers were recently tested (downloads dillo-win32-3.0p9.exe and dplus-0.5b-setup.exe). Unfortunately one was buggy (crashed) and the other had limited TLS support, no longer functional on today's internet. Hopefully these projects will revive. I install Dillo as a lightweight, backup browser on my personal GNU/Linux systems, most times it's good enough.

Thanks for all responses. For sure @Mr.Scienceman2000 my 800 MHz system will still be primary for Windows 98. All my Windows games are from the 9x era but i will try more demanding games on the faster system (Neverwinter Nights, Microsoft Train Simulator). The faster system is better at processing the now higher quality MSN videos and gets less hung-up during multiple tasks. A 200 MB MP4 video, for example, would have been a huge file in the Windows 9x era. On the faster system i experimented with SYSTEM.INI [386Enh] -> MaxPhysPage=20000 (limit 512 MB) but R. Loew's PATCHMEM works well so will use all 1.5 GB RAM. Thanks for CMOS.zip @RainyShadow. CMOS.COM is now in C:\DOS and the CMOS was backed up, hopefully will never need to use it. I didn't realize this type of software existed. Being old school and manual i would prefer software that just outputs CMOS settings to plain text but CMOS.COM would obviously restore a borked system more accurately and efficiently. Interesting comment regarding KernelEx enabling more viruses @Gansangriff but i have no experience. At first glance what you say makes sense, wonder if it's been discussed here before. Agree with all comments, most viruses and malware can be avoided through 'safe' computing practices. I vaguely remember having a virus or malware years ago (1999). Whatever it was, recovery was straightforward. If this happened today i would wipe the system and restore from a good backup. Things are certainly outrageous @UCyborg, healthy unvaccinated who take proper precautions appear to be treated unfairly here too. To me this type of issue was already pre-virus, even basic banking tasks often make a customer feel like a criminal, at the very least just another number. Windows 10 will apparently do away with a user password, presumably optional (for now). For Windows 98 i don't care, easily bypassed anyway. To me this is a slippery slope, dragging a user's cellphone into the equation for two-step authentication, just to use a computer. Lately i feel like such a dinosaur. For a production machine GNU/Linux or BSD with a strong password is good. A long passphrase is tough to beat and easy enough to remember. Playing FreeCell game #41, still fun. I'll take this (and roguelikes) over most games for replayability and enjoyment. To me a good game needs the right balance of random (number generator). Wish i would have logged games since the 1990s, my heart will likely stop beating before i can finish them all. Just wanted to mention for anyone using the forum software's JavaScript enabled '@member_name' tag, the @member_name is not visible in a vanilla Windows 98 browser like RetroZilla (whitespace). Unfortunately forum member's signatures don't show up either, shame as they sometimes include interesting links or information.

As indicated earlier FreeCell is my favourite built-in Windows game. Finished the first 23 games and started a log, dedicated to @Drugwash, wherever you are. Only 31977 unique games left but i'll probably never finish. Apparently all games are winnable, good to know, except game #11982 but there is a cheater Easter egg win, tested to work in Windows 98 SE. https://dan.hersam.com/2009/02/13/how-to-beat-the-impossible-freecell-game/ If anyone else is interested, FreeCell FAQ. http://www.solitairelaboratory.com/fcfaq.html My faster 'backup' Windows 98 system was dragged out of storage the other day for service. Lots of work is being done on this system. It needed a new IDE ribbon cable, took a while to figure out the data corruption issue. It also required CMOS battery replacement. Re-configuring the BIOS on a franken-built system without documentation can be tricky and time consuming, all good now. This system was originally double-vanilla but i went ahead and installed all applicable official Windows 98 updates from my personal hoard. It's currently running defrag, more mesmerizing than a fireplace. First time i've ever run two Windows 98 systems at the same time via KVM switch, delightful way to spend an evening in this (current) dreary world. Remember to stay safe and try your best to love one another. You'll probably never get a virus hunkering down at home playing with Windows 9x, even if the system's online. Best wishes to you all, especially those less fortunate.

Good to hear from you all, thanks for the DisplaySet information and download link. Pretty cool and lean, small download (displayset.zip, 631 KB) that works well. Nice to have a large preview window that updates in real time before hitting 'Apply'. The 'Revert' and global font size 'Raise/lower all' features are welcome too. Ziff Davis Media a blast from the past. Custom configuration made easy. Now i can play with shades of grey all night, thanks again :) In the old days i didn't realize for some time that Windows 98 appearance was quite customizable via Display Properties -> Appearance tab -> Item dropdowns (desktop, icon, spacing, title bar, border, menu, message box, scrollbar, selected items, tooltip, window). Custom themes were not important though i was partial to 'Desert', 'Red White and Blue', 'Storm' and 'Windows Standard' with minor modifications. As i get older built-in High Contrast themes may be handy as my vision shifts (so say we all). One thing i think Windows 98 did pretty well was remember window positions and size. To me it really was a well designed, logical and usable interface via keyboard or mouse.

Thanks for all responses. Wishing happy thoughts to you @UCyborg, i won't post a depressing shades of grey screenshot :) I don't know much about DOS and Windows hacking, manipulating hex values, reverse engineering binaries. Fortunately some kind soul hacked the problematic 1990 DOS game for more recent hardware. Now i can thankfully play the game without any tweaks or slowdown software, including mouse support and the ever great Sound Blaster. It now appears to play as originally intended. The oldest DOS game i'm currently playing is a children's exploration game from 1986, it is not CPU sensitive and plays well. I remember back when games like Myst were popular and heavily marketed. Just reviewed this game and don't think i could play it today. Fictional storylines were never my thing, just take me to the action please. So for me it would probably turn into a rushed Where's Waldo point-and-click exercise, skimming important details that may later be needed to properly finish the game. In about 2000 when a colleague and i needed to eat lunch at our workstations, we would sometimes have FreeCell competitions. We would each start a new game using the same preseed number (1-32000) and see who could win first. She usually won, still a fond memory. Windows 98 SE (Sucksless Edition) has some decent pre-installed coffee break games (FreeCell, Hearts, Ninesweeper, Solitaire). Being not much of a colour guy @i7u, i never noticed your finer points on Windows 2000 appearance, other than it always looked very pleasant, polished and professional. Makes me want to install it again, also wish i owned Millenium Edition for comparison. Unfortunately there's never enough free time, i would create more partitions and go installation crazy. Hi @Gansangriff, agreed Windows 98 can easily become very colourful. The grass is greener on the other side, i think i was just depressed about getting an old DOS game to run on sub-optimal (too fast) hardware. Thanks for reminding that emulation isn't perfect either and needs a lot of horsepower. Forums like Vogons have lots of information regarding DOSBox woes. I am very thankful for my older hardware but need to upgrade one system soon, as it can no longer log into a bank site. Wish my KVM switch, equipped with PS2 and VGA cables, could handle more than two computers. Windows 98 SE runs well as long as the same stable software, setup and routines are utilized. It does, however, hiccup on occasion when trying new things. Doubtful it would surprise anyone that it isn't exactly the most stable OS. This system needed a forced shutdown the other day and ScanDisk auto-ran next boot. During a later boot to Windows this most recent ScanDisk run wasn't recognized (Properties -> Tools -> Error Checking Status -> Last checked drive for errors xxx days ago). What the heck? Then remembered Windows 98 uses C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\SCANDISK.EXE (141 KB) for DOS and C:\WINDOWS\Scandskw.exe (5 KB) while in Windows. Despite it's instabilities DOS and Windows 9x have by far the fastest boot and shutdown times of any other system in this household. In DOS mode, SMARTDRV.EXE was loaded the other day to complete some file management. Upon finishing i wanted to unload it from memory without rebooting but this doesn't seem possible, unless i misunderstand the user options. DOS only takes seconds to reboot but still would have been nice just to continue the session.