NoelC

That's good info. Up to now I have these: PS C:\TEMP> Get-AppxPackage -AllUsers | Select PackageFullName PackageFullName --------------- Microsoft.VCLibs.120.00_12.0.21005.1_x86__8wekyb3d8bbwe Microsoft.VCLibs.120.00_12.0.21005.1_x64__8wekyb3d8bbwe Microsoft.Appconnector_1.3.3.0_neutral__8wekyb3d8bbwe Microsoft.WinJS.2.0_1.0.9600.17018_neutral__8wekyb3d8bbwe Microsoft.Windows.ShellExperienceHost_10.0.10240.16384_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy windows.immersivecontrolpanel_6.2.0.0_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy Microsoft.AccountsControl_10.0.10240.16384_neutral__cw5n1h2txyewy Microsoft.LockApp_10.0.10240.16384_neutral__cw5n1h2txyewy Microsoft.Windows.AssignedAccessLockApp_1000.10240.16384.0_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy The VCLibs entries are from Visual Studio, though I don't know whether I actually need them if I'm not developing Universal Apps. Based on what you've written, it looks like I could remove these without problems: Microsoft.Appconnector_1.3.3.0_neutral__8wekyb3d8bbwe Microsoft.WinJS.2.0_1.0.9600.17018_neutral__8wekyb3d8bbwe Microsoft.LockApp_10.0.10240.16384_neutral__cw5n1h2txyewy Microsoft.Windows.AssignedAccessLockApp_1000.10240.16384.0_neutral_neutral_cw5n1h2txyewy Out of curiosity, why did you keep Windows.MiracastView? -Noel

Since no one has been able to detect any such benefits so far, no thanks. -Noel

I probably didn't work 3x as hard to add additional usability to 8.x as 7. More like half again as much, which means it's something like 1.5x harder to turn a stock Win 8.1 installation into something usable as a stock Win 7 installation. For Win 10 it's maybe 2x harder than Win 7, with a result that's only about 95% as good. But I'm just a lowly system integrator/tweaker who cares about quality and stability. We have to give credit to the fine developers and experimenters who share their findings and make the tweaking possible. The Big Muscle's and Ivo Beltchev's and intikas and maxXPsofts of the world who figure out how to make it do what we want despite Microsoft's best efforts to screw it up are the real heroes! -Noel

Don't kid yourself, 7 needs to be tweaked to bring out its best too. Not as much as 8.1, but out of the box 7 is lacking too. The basic major tweaks to 8.1 are to improve the desktop theme and to resurrect the Start Menu (Classic Shell). Beyond that most of it is just removal of stuff a desktop-oriented user wouldn't want or need. Then most of the same tweaks actually apply to all the systems - not surprisingly to Win 10 as well. Take away Metro and it's still NT under the covers, and that's a Good Thing. For serious work, based on what I know now, I'd suggest the systems rate overall as follows, on a scale of 10: Win 7: 8 Win 8.1: 9 Win 10: 6 (because of the risk that Microsoft is going to turn it into something that CAN'T be tweaked) Note that the older systems will decline over time, simply because they're not current. The current system may decline over time because Microsoft is turning it into something else, not as good. -Noel

I just did a TON of software engineering and business work with my tweaked Win 8.1 system running on my workstation today. I ran virtual machines, did Visual Studio development, collaborated with screen sharing and Skype, operated some intensive Adobe graphics applications, researched things online, did eMail customer support, and almost certainly stuff I don't even remember doing right now. I did not experience a single system glitch. Everything in the system itself just worked, and very responsively. Looking at my Task Manager, I see it's now been 7 days 13 hours on the current bootup. That's impressive, given the amount of processing demands I subject this system to. Plus it backs up everything several ways every night. That being said, I also used to be able to run Win 7 for weeks at a time without a reboot also. So 8.1 isn't really more stable. But it's certainly not less stable. Performance-wise, 8.1 seems to do most things about as well as on Win 7, though in a few cases (e.g. heavy file system activity) Win 7 was actually slightly faster. I have an I/O setup (6 SSDs in RAID) that is so responsive I don't sense a difference, but it does show in benchmarks. For best performance of equivalent operations, Win 7 seems to be a slightly better choice. Most recently, I've worked up firewall configurations for all my systems - including my current Win 7 system over in the corner that serves files, my Win 8.1 workstation, and a test Win 10 VM . Right now - surprisingly - neither the Win 10 test system nor my Win 7 system attempt online communications I don't initiate. They're completely quiet (which took MUCH more effort on 10 to achieve). By contrast my Win 8.1 system, despite all my reconfiguration, still attempts fairly often to contact various CDNs and Microsoft. In short, Win 8.1 is worse than 7 or 10 regarding privacy if you're not willing to run a deny-by-default outgoing firewall configuration. All that being said, I still feel I get slightly more functionality and value from my highly tuned/tweaked Win 8.1 than I did from 7 on the same machine, and I'm glad I have it. Would I suggest moving on from a perfectly good 7 system at this point to 8.1? Tough call. I personally still like 8.1 best so far, but not by all that much. It's more work to get 8.1 to the state I have it than it would be to get a 7 system to be productive, and it's notable that I set up my new Dell PowerEdge T20 system this past April with Win 7 x64 Ultimate, not 8.1. TL;DR: It's kind of a toss up. I wouldn't advise spending a lot of money or effort to move up to 8.1 if you already have a 7 system that's doing primarily what you need. If it's disappointing you, consider taking the time to do a fresh, clean installation. That can work wonders. -Noel

That's where you're wrong. Microsoft considered Windows 8 a "cloud-integrated" OS as well. Windows 10 isn't anything new, it's just 8.2. In any case, from BOTH Win 8.1 and 10 so far I've seen a couple of network connection attempts that look suspiciously like attempts to verify activation. These occurred out of the blue, and also at the start of a Windows Update operation. The addresses were: 157.56.77.138:443 # Microsoft, Redmond 157.56.77.139:443 # Microsoft, Redmond Or these could just be blocked telemetry. Time will tell. -Noel

I tried to get an insider build somewhere in the middle of the cycle, and it flat refused to deliver one. All I got were the cumulative Windows Updates for 10240. What I learned was that no one - not even on Microsoft's own forums - can tell you why. Threads abound where people say "try this or that", and some report success while others report failure. The system truly has exceeded human capacity to sense patterns. Perhaps one really had to tweak something or re-sign up for the Insider program or something. In any case, there should be a build 10586 ISO available in a few days - or ideally even a Windows Update for 10240 users - that should make the question moot. Then we'll have to re-discover all the tweaks again. -Noel

So FINALLY, on the eve of the next in-place upgrade that threatens to destroy the configuration and provisioning changes we've all made, NOW I have it tweaked to where: There are no apps and no errors logged.I have the desktop looking good, complete with Aero Glass (though the common controls still suck).The system takes a minimum of processes and RAM to boot to the desktop.My system absolutely doesn't even try to communicate online unless I initiate the activity. It's a beautiful thing. It's possible that given all the attention by brilliant minds such as intika and others here, Windows 10 will ultimately be more tweakable than Windows 8 or 7, but the price is ongoing effort and vigilance. Microsoft considers our behavior - turning Windows into something WE like - subversive to their cloud-based ad delivery and private information sale plans, and their plan is to thwart it by forcing the cycle of tweak discovery and re-discovery over and over again every 3 to 4 months until everyone just gets tired. Tweaked nicely or no, it's STILL not my idea of an OS I really want to adopt for real work. -Noel

Oops, my mistake was that I ran the Remove-AppxPackage commands in the CMD window with SYSTEM credentials. Worked great when I ran it in a window started with MY credentials. And truly no more error logged at logon either. Thanks! -Noel

Your github instructions are pretty terse between steps 2 and 3, but I figured it out. I did find an entry for Cortana there, on row 32, and I was able to change the IsInBox entry to 0. Having removed Cortana already via the instructions earlier in this thread, there was nothing more I could do. I could not remove a package that was already removed. The error logged at startup remains. I'll try again after the 10586 in-place upgrade restores Cortana, which it will almost certainly do in just a few days. -Noel

I'm in the same boat as you - I dropped off the insider update path because of the constant disappointments. I'm running 10240 until 10586 comes out officially. -Noel

10240 was significant because it contained the digits "1024" - a number near and dear to computer geeks. 10586 has "586" in it - another number geeks will recognize - the last 3 digits of Intel's Pentium processor designation, the last before Intel stopped using number sequences that couldn't be trademarked. People are reporting there is no desktop watermark on the 10586 pre-release build. I don't have it myself so I can't confirm that. -Noel

They're a hardware company now. Why would they want to promote compatibility with old hardware? -Noel

Here's hoping you're wrong, but yes, that's the worry I have. I wouldn't put it past the Microsoft of post-2009 to have put in something that would require occasional mothership calls once the system is activated online. It's pretty clear they considered Win 8 the first "cloud-integrated" system. There's of course telephone activation for the guy without any Internet, where he could call and punch in a huge string of numbers and have a computer voice read a big set back to punch in. It's possible the ongoing activation scenario is different after doing that, vs. having actually contacted Microsoft online, but I doubt it. I always keep watch for activity implying it's trying to check its license. I'm still seeing Win 8.1 try to contact Akamai quite regularly, but using port 80 (not encrypted). For example, last night. I suspect this is some component trying to self-update, but so far I've not located the setting to stop it. # Seen overnight: # Blocked 23.1.117.231:80 # 27 times - Akamai, Cambridge: Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) 23.13.70.176:80 # 55 times - Akamai, Cambridge: Host Process for Windows Services (System) 23.14.84.155:80 # 84 times - Akamai, Cambridge: Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) 23.14.84.161:80 # 84 times - Akamai, Cambridge: Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) 23.15.5.199:80 # 2 times - Akamai, Cambridge: Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) 23.15.5.213:80 # 2 times - Akamai, Cambridge: Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) 23.39.131.234:80 # 3 times - Akamai, Cambridge: Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) 23.62.165.99:80 # 1 time - Akamai, Cambridge: Host Process for Windows Services (System) 23.72.246.188:80 # 7 times - Akamai, Cambridge: Host Process for Windows Services (System) 23.73.5.231:80 # 3 times - Akamai, Cambridge: Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) 104.16.63.69:80 # 3 times - Cloudflare/Amazon San Francisco: OS - Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) 104.16.64.69:80 # 3 times - Cloudflare/Amazon San Francisco: OS - Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) 104.16.65.69:80 # 3 times - Cloudflare/Amazon San Francisco: OS - Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) 104.16.66.69:80 # 3 times - Cloudflare/Amazon San Francisco: OS - Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) 104.16.67.69:80 # 3 times - Cloudflare/Amazon San Francisco: OS - Host Process for Windows Services (NoelC) # Allowed (Certificate Revocation List retrievals) 178.255.83.2:80 # crl.comodoca.com, London: OS - Host Process for Windows Services (*) 93.184.215.200:80 # mscrl.microsoft.com Edgecast/Azure Wichita: OS - Host Process for Windows Services (*) I actually have my Win 10 test system quieted down at this point better than my host 8.1 system. That's due to it having had more scrutiny and specific tools (like O&O ShutUp10) developed for it. -Noel

I'm not sure whether - or even how - to take that comment seriously. As for "why" I asked the question, Microsoft has turned into raving lunatics who no longer have the talent to program a decent operating system, so they let their Marketing morons take over and now they're outright predatory, using up the reputation their company built over a lifetime. Don't look now, but they're using their foot-in-the-door to push things people don't want. Last I looked, that was the realm of MALWARE. You don't think they're going to do nefarious things to try to get people off the older operating systems they're using quite successfully in order to push the new ad delivery system onto them? Do you think MALWARE writers deliver more legitimate software over time? -Noel

Funny, sure, but Woody has set the level too low. Seriously. Perhaps he's trying to avoid Microsoft's horde of lawyers coming down on him hard. MS-DEFCON 3 was fine for around the time of Win 8.1. If you haven't been vetting each and every update for a few years now, and delaying the installation until you've heard from others online that it doesn't cause systems like yours to turn over and wave their little rubber casters in the air, then you've been irresponsible. It needed to be raised to 4 at the time of "This update helps ease the transition into a newer version of Windows". Treat every update as a potential threat, and choose only the ones you really need. If you haven't actually hidden updates by now, then you've been irresponsible. I've decided it needs to be at a solid level 5 now that despite Microsoft's attempts to shove Windows 10 down people's throats the adoption rate is tapering off. They've already promised to up the game. Turn off Windows Updates on your older systems and block your system's attempts to contact the mothership. Watch the press; if you hear of an update that you really, REALLY need, maybe consider re-enabling Windows Updates brieftly and installing just that one. Me, I would test any subsequent available update on a virtual machine first. -Noel

Wow, why use a text file when a database will do? Microsoft's heads are so firmly inserted... -Noel

Don't hold your breath. Bill's an Old Guy now. Coming back to save an ailing company's a** is akin to hard work. Look what it did to Steve Jobs. -Noel

It just proves that they know Windows 7 is the second "Win" in their "Win-Win" strategy. Their predecessors built a fine OS. Now they're so insanely wealthy from it that they can do anything they want literally for YEARS and peoples' alternative is just to drop back to something they also built and that they also get licensing money for. Humans will pretty much always screw things up when they get into an enviable position. There needs to be a "tech rehab".. "Hi, I'm Satya, and I'm a Microsoft employee. I didn't take my job seriously and the world suffered..." -Noel

Thanks, guys. Glad I'm not alone. It feels weird - but right - to make this change. -Noel

By the way, looking at the weekly stats on statcounter.com just now, just for fun I added up Win 8.0 and 8.1... 16.05% on the same scale where Win 10 has a whole 9.47%. These are people actively using their computers to browse the web. I think this says that even Win 8 users, even after 3 months of Microsoft's ridiculously aggressive campaign to push Win 10 on them free of charge, STILL by a significant margin think Win 8 is a better system? Phrases that come to mind: "Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." "I'm mature enough to forgive you, but not stupid enough to trust you again." "If it seems too good to be true, it most likely is." -Noel

It's tapering off. Soon Microsoft will be pulling some other tricks out of their asses. I imagine they'll spend an unprecented amount of money advertising how great the next in-place upgrade is (I guess that's going to be close to whatever the insiders are already testing; no one who knows what they're doing seems terribly impressed so far). How great to reset all your preferences; to reinstall all the Apps you've chosen to remove; to reinstall OneDrive and Cortana; to implement new methods of sending private information to the mothership; to break all the tweaks that might have made Win 10 something you could stand to use... How great indeed. -Noel

It's up to date as of a few weeks ago, sans a number of updates that I have chosen to hide (i.e., virtually all of them that proposed to facilitate the Windows 10 "up"grade or add telemetry). This is the full list of those that I hid before making the divorce final: KB2976978 KB2999226 KB3035583 KB3046480 KB3068708 KB2075249 KB3080149 KB3083711 I didn't come to this decision lightly. I've always kept up to date with all Windows Updates since there were Windows Updates, and always got good service from my Windows installations. My change of approach stems from Microsoft's change of stance. They're not going in a direction I agree with. Right now I have a perfectly viable Windows setup on a very powerful computer, which will serve me for some time just as it is. -Noel

Didn't say it wasn't; the link you posted is one of those I posted above. But it DOES represent a way that Windows 10 intrudes on one's privacy, and it DOES NOT stop by any known method of configuration via the Settings or other panels. I was surprised to see that it was not already set in my Windows 10 system by way of O&O ShutUp10. Of course, that software may have been improved since I ran it. And nothing says that mrt.exe is doing the same things it was doing in 2007. -Noel

Thanks guys. Yes, it's a retail edition. No, I have not fooled with the clock, nor would I want to. I have a number of other activated applications that would be adversely affected by that. And I've already run it this way for more than a week. I was thinking ahead to the longer term. I knew that Win 7 normally has scheduled activation check logic that runs every 3 months, but it's not in the same place in the Task Scheduler in Win 8.1, so that made me curious. Thanks for the slmgr command, cdob, this makes me feel more confident: -Noel