NoelC

With Windows 10 so being maddeningly mindless I imagine there could be a rise in unofficial screen shots... -Noel

One possibility... "Break It Thinking" http://www.amazon.com/If-Aint-Broke-Break-Unconventional/dp/0446393592 -Noel

Always on, yet somehow ineffective and requiring of a geeky PowerShell command. Pretty much right in line with modern expectations. Regarding your iconography suggestions... I thought that's what that spinning wheel (and the spinning dots, don't forget the dots) already represent. -Noel

An (ongoing current) anecdote... A friend of mine wrote an eMail to me last night (and several today)... He got the GWX notification. He doesn't want to upgrade just yet his Win 7 x64 Pro system on high-end Puget Systems hardware, which serves him for his photographic work. Like anyone who thinks things through before leaping, he wants to wait and see whether Win 10 is viable among others who work as he does with photographs. He's not stupid, he's quite tech-capable, but he's not an expert at Windows configuration and manipulation specifically. Most importantly, he expressed his utter surprise to me that Microsoft would suddenly turn on him like this. Without guidance and before contacting me, he did what he thought he needed to do (choosing NOT to "reserve his copy of Win 10", and configuring the icon not to show) to rid himself of the GWX nagware. He says that everything he did to try to get out from under having the Win 10 icon in his system tray and stop it from nagging him, the GWX software undid and the nags reappeared. Lost so far: half a day fighting with it. I have since advised him on uninstalling KB3035583, hiding it (and watching warily for it to reappear in the future). Hiding the update had not occurred to him. -Noel

Seems a pretty unlikely connection, but whatever lights your boat, er, floats your fire, er... No one but me (and I guess Jaclaz, on the observation that he uses the term "stupid" a lot to describe Microsoft) thinks that Microsoft's method of gaining approval to upgrade people's systems to Win 10 seems downright devious? Is everyone getting so numb to their intrusions already? Let's review: 1. They loaded shillware onto everyone's systems with Windows Update. Was that what you thought Windows Update was for? 2. They loaded data gathering software onto everyone's systems for to gather info to help THEM in preparation for the Win 10 release. Was that what you wanted your computer to be doing and the reason you're paying for your Internet access? 3. They popped up an ad for their free upgrade and used misleading language to coerce you into agreeing to replace your operating system when THEY want to with one that uploads your data to them. This is YOUR computer, right? Who's in control again? Seriously, no one else sees that this is just like the stuff people have been trying desperately to block since malware began? The frog pot is almost at boiling. -Noel

I noticed a LOT of similarity between the look of Spartan / Edge and the Safari browser on our iPad. Way too much. I wonder which behemoth is thinking of buying the other behemoth. -Noel

I don't think they every actually said they would, did they? If they choose to do so, it would be nice if they don't limit it just to transparency or translucency in window borders. Aero is much more than that. They need to also bring back visual styles to buttons and other controls WITHIN windows. THAT would make a huge difference in usability. This flat, lifeless theme they've chosen - presumably to fit better visually with Modern Apps and Office 365 - is oversimplified. Consider this comparison... Which of the above has controls that are easy to spot? But I really hold little hope for Microsoft to re-introduce something elegant looking for the desktop at the last minute. That's just not the direction they're going at all. What we'll get right here from Big Muscle may well be the only way to make it something that can be tolerated. -Noel

Interesting information, but how does the acquisition by Microsoft of a software company (no doubt making the principals rich) apply to this subject? The terms "joining" and "acquires" aren't surprising. It has been reported (in the context of the Windows 8.1 upgrade) that the "pick a time" process for delaying Windows installations appears to be very limited. Do we have reason to suspect it will be different this time around? The use of warm and fuzzy lingo ("cancel your reservation at any time" and "pick a time that's good for you") is clearly intended to inspire confidence (as in "we're not locking you into anything and you have no reason not to trust us"). Assuming the moment you agree to the "reservation" you ARE essentially locked in (what's the process for canceling, anyway?) I see this as an aggressively predatory move by Microsoft. Thinking ahead, I imagine there will be a couple of buttons at some point, the bigger and shinier of which does an irreversible "upgrade", while the small, dim, (not recommended) one will set up for a potential rollback. -Noel

People have speculated that if everyone would wake up one day and just find that Microsoft had "upgraded" their Win 7 and 8 systems to Win 10, there would be hell to pay. Microsoft wouldn't dare do that without permission, right? Now consider this: Does "Reserving your copy of Windows 10" grant that permission? Just enough to limbo under the legal bar? I'm no legal eagle, but I judge it as yes. Note the 1, 2, 3 instructions: What will your options be for picking a time, I wonder. Food for thought. -Noel

Well, Microsoft has a fundamental problem... Either they eschew compatibility with everything from the past, or they simply CAN'T lock it down. So far, compatibility seems to be winning - as well it should. If they just stopped running everything, say, that wasn't signed by Microsoft, they'd be an instant failure. Their approach for now appears to be to drive people who want to use the desktop mad so they run away screaming. -Noel Edit: Personally, I propose one possibility: Computer users could educate themselves, block this "free upgrade" BS, and just continue using the systems they have until such time as Microsoft makes the new system every bit as capable as the systems it's trying to replace. And meet attempts to degrade those systems - e.g., through Windows Updates that break things or make systems slower - with legal action.

It's being posted in several places that App packages in Win 10 TP systems that have been upgraded via Windows Update need to be re-deployed to ensure you're running the latest versions of those included with Win 10. Seems like something that should have been handled by Windows Update, but apparently there are cases where it's not. You can do this by running the following command in an elevated Powershell window: Get-AppXPackage -AllUsers | Foreach {Add-AppxPackage -DisableDevelopmentMode -Register "$($_.InstallLocation)\AppXManifest.xml"} In my Win 10 test system, which was fresh-installed from a 10074 ISO and upgraded directly to 10130, it updated a whole bunch of packages successfully, but failed on two (Cortana and Shell Experience Host) apparently because of resource conflicts. -Noel

Just to prove there's no reason other than arbitrary sheep herding, I resurrected Solitaire from Win 7. It can be done with a couple of key patches to circumvent the OS version check, after which it runs fine. Microsoft thinks that by hyping up the "free upgrade" that all the Win 7 aficionados will be happy. Microsoft is suffering from cranial rectalitis. I propose we call this time in history: The Great Reset To 1.0 Thus begins a new era of tweakers to make Windows do good things. Again. -Noel

Uh, not that I can see. Is there a special secret corner and maybe a couple of keys one has to hold down to get a second instance running? Oh, wait... This is BS and just serves to deflect from the actual [lack of] functionality. For example, A large 64 bit unsigned number isn't handled in the NuCalculator (what's the unsigned value of 0x9000000000000000?). What's the single precision floating point equivalent of 1.25f? Floating point has been a reality since, what, the 1980s?The running total (accumulator?) isn't maintained when switching modes (ever want to do scientific programming?)... Doesn't anyone care about actual functionality any more? These are design deficiencies. Programmers have suddenly lost 30 IQ points. Signs of the times indeed. -Noel

That's entirely up to you, though at this point I'd probably recommend against it. Be sure and research what the updates do thoroughly before making any decision. At this point the only one where we know some of what it really does is the GWX update itself. Reason: It's possible updates like KB3050267 might be bona fide improvements they're rolling into the older Windows Update process after finding bugs during the testing with the big WIndows 10 build updates. Looking around online, there's some evidence that KB3068708 is a revisit of KB3022345 but now with a new number. Incredibly, it's known to cause the servicing database to report corruption! I think this goes to show that in this time of transition, those of us not gung ho to install Win 10 at the earliest possible time need to be researching each and every one of these updates. -Noel

Repost of some data I added to the Win 10 First Impressions thread, because it's pertinent here in the Win 8 forum too... 3 optional updates have just appeared, awaiting my approval on my Win 8.1 setup... Red flag emphasis added by me. KB2976978 This update performs diagnostics on the Windows systems that participate in the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program in order to determine whether compatibility issues may be encountered when the latest Windows operating system is installed. This update will help Microsoft and its partners ensure compatibility for customers who are seeking to install the latest Windows operating system. KB3050267 A change is made on the log level for %windir%\WindowsUpdate.log to reduce the frequency of certain events from exhausting log space.Fixes an issue for managed computers in which managed computers have to update drivers as a set. Driver sets are not processed by Windows Update during shutdown, and are still available to be installed after you restart the computer.Fixes an issue in which the files of an update may not be found by Windows Update (0x80070002) if the download operation spans multiple sessions.General improvements are made to support upgrades to a later version of Windows.KB3068708 This update introduces the Diagnostics and Telemetry tracking service...[snip]This kind of update helps the overall application experience on Windows, by improving the current operating system for upgrade to the latest version of Windows.[snip] Given that I want to keep this system on WIn 8.1 until I deem it time to "upgrade", and I'm not at all interested in having Microsoft collect telemetry from me to help THEM, it's pretty clear I will be hiding KB2976978 and KB3068708. I'll need to do a bit of thinking and more research on whether to allow KB3050267 to come in. -Noel

Speeeeekin' of the devil... 3 optional updates have appeared, awaiting my approval on my Win 8.1 setup... Red flag emphasis added by me. KB2976978 This update performs diagnostics on the Windows systems that participate in the Windows Customer Experience Improvement Program in order to determine whether compatibility issues may be encountered when the latest Windows operating system is installed. This update will help Microsoft and its partners ensure compatibility for customers who are seeking to install the latest Windows operating system. KB3050267 A change is made on the log level for %windir%\WindowsUpdate.log to reduce the frequency of certain events from exhausting log space.Fixes an issue for managed computers in which managed computers have to update drivers as a set. Driver sets are not processed by Windows Update during shutdown, and are still available to be installed after you restart the computer.Fixes an issue in which the files of an update may not be found by Windows Update (0x80070002) if the download operation spans multiple sessions.General improvements are made to support upgrades to a later version of Windows.KB3068708 This update introduces the Diagnostics and Telemetry tracking service...[snip]This kind of update helps the overall application experience on Windows, by improving the current operating system for upgrade to the latest version of Windows.[snip] Given that I want to keep this system on WIn 8.1 until I deem it time to "upgrade", and I'm not at all interested in having Microsoft collect telemetry from me to help THEM, it's pretty clear I will be hiding KB2976978 and KB3068708. I'll need to do a bit of thinking and more research on whether to allow KB3050267 to come in. -Noel

I was going to reply to his comment "I'm tired of playing the supportive spouse to MSFT's abusive media strategy" with a quote with media replaced with [name here] then say something like "I'm kind of tired of people doing that too", but the forum logon process got stuck in a loop and lost my post. -Noel

Perhaps you should let it happen, or at least let him know that Microsoft is breaking their trust with your company by pushing Win 10 sales BS into your otherwise well-maintained and work-oriented systems. Microsoft needs to be made to know that this level of aggressive behavior is exactly what people strive to eliminate via anti-malware packages. It doesn't make it somehow all right that it's Microsoft doing it. Of course I may underestimate the optimism of the public who think "wait, maybe there really IS such a thing as a free lunch". -Noel

Anything special you want me to check there? The message "Unable to find Java" comes up immediately (less than 1 second) for me in both browsers. I'll install / enable Java if you'd like, though I don't normally use it. It'll be the same Java runtime for each browser, though - the one from Sun - so I'm not sure there's any use in doing a comparison. -Noel

I would but I'm banned for challenging others views that the new stuff is "faster". They don't want the truth known. -Noel

Makes sense. Could you load the custom theme atlas first? That would make the system usable several minutes sooner after login in the case where the pattern match fails and the symbols cannot be found. -Noel

Times for the above: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/ushome/index.html - 1.0 seconds for IE, 1.2 seconds for Spartan http://arstechnica.com/ - 1.0 seconds for IE, 1.0 seconds for Spartan http://www.zdnet.com/ - 0.8 seconds for IE, 1.0 seconds for Spartan Time to cold start to my company's web page, which I use as a home page: 0.8 seconds for IE, 1.0 seconds for Spartan Where is the supposed performance improvement for Project Spartan? -Noel Edit: P.S., Spartan does NO MORE and NO LESS color-management than IE. Both read the color profiles of images and transform the colors to the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 color space, which is wrong for virtually every monitor that's not part of an sRGB reference system. This means that IE and Spartan will display oversaturated images 100% of the time on a system equipped with a wide gamut color monitor.

Though I've seen no evidence of it, there's really nothing keeping Microsoft from tacking a "Windows 10 shill" program onto every single Windows Update for Win 7 and Win 8 from now on. THEY define what goes into updates, and THEY already have their feet and other parts of their anatomy in your door. THEY clearly want 100% of all Windows users on their latest system. Whether you allow them to guide you entirely boils down to whether you trust them to have YOUR best interests at heart. There was a time - a long time - where their interests and our interests (well, mine at least) coincided quite well. They even did things we didn't think of that were actually good. That and the fact that what they're doing is complex and defies simplification are what make it difficult to make a judgment about whether their recent change in direction is a Good Thing. There's nothing really wrong with their interests changing - and clearly they ARE changing - but also there's nothing really wrong with your interests changing to match - or NOT. The trick is to find the right balance so that everyone gets the best value. For a long time I've done things to Windows - configuration and augmentation - that more or less keep it doing what *I* want to do, not what Microsoft has wanted. For example, I haven't run any Metro/Modern Apps at all, yet I've been using WIndows 8.1 since late in 2013. Based on my evaluation and testing I believe I'll be able to tweak Windows 10 to continue meeting my needs, but only just barely. This time around I may actually choose to keep the capability to run Apps, though so far I really haven't found many I'd want to use. But I almost certainly won't be allowing OneDrive to ferry my files to Microsoft's servers online, and I may not choose to use a Microsoft account (jury's still out on that one). And I'll DEFINITELY be replacing that gawd-awful theme they ship with it. Given that a lot of these things are not options provided directly by Microsoft for our choosing, I'm taking on a certain amount of risk in choosing to deviate from the ways "mother Microsoft" wants us to use Windows. That's okay; I find it quite fun and interesting. I'm sure not everyone feels the same way about that. -Noel

There's a balance to be struck... On one end of the spectrum, there are those who want things to "just work" in the extreme. Perhaps these folks would be most suited to using a Mac, where you pay money, get a system that you never have to think about, just turn on the power and have your hand held as you run the apps provided. Notably at this end of the spectrum the emphasis on maintaining compatibility with older software is at a minimum. On the other end of the spectrum, there are those who might call themselves "geeks". These folks don't balk at the challenge of opening the hood, tinkering, maybe visiting the junk yard for parts. And with suitable machinations even the most ancient software still can be run. We all fall somewhere in this range. Some of us have things like virtual machines running old versions of Windows, while others might consider that too much trouble. Some eschew the newest versions of Windows because they don't perceive value in recent changes, while others get right into them. I ventured into territory I shouldn't have, above, where I judged pointertovoid's desire to "get geeky" to be relatively low. I fear I've insulted a number of folks. I am sorry, I should not have done that. "Getting geeky" is often a LOT of fun. -Noel

That's just it. Indications are it renders slower. But it doesn't matter any more how things work. Just how Microsoft says that they work. -Noel