JorgeA

That was great. He has a ton of pointed comments on the UX, too many to start quoting here! My "favorite" one is the final Follow Up Observational Rant, where he's trying to carry out some complicated instructions off a Web page, and a Metro-style screen takes over his monitor, covering up the instructions he needed to read. Stoopid sh*t. (Now I'm sounding like that guy. ) --JorgeA

'It's for your security': The perfect Letter of Marque nowadays . If it weren't so frustrating, that would be funny! "Here here, we have determined that you are incompetent to run your own life computer, so in our superior wisdom we are going to make it so that you are physically able to do only the things that we approve of." Looked at from another angle, your "Letter of Marque" observation gives a new twist to the title of the movie, Pirates of Silicon Valley. --JorgeA

That thread was from April of last year, when the Consumer Preview was out. With this in mind, check out the comment by "Bob" (second on the list). It's infuriating to see this kind of "argument" being put out. Basically, it's a demand to shut up and not point out problems -- which of course can only help to ensure that the problem doesn't get fixed. (And it never did get fixed, right?) Clearly, the push is for turning PC's into dumb Internet terminals that can't do any work on their own. --JorgeA

Wow, that was an eye opener, thank you for posting the link. And it does have a relation to this thread, as another example of a vendor trying to channel, limit, and control what the end-user (the customer) does: And, while we're on the subject of vendors controlling what users may do with their own PCs, consider where users will be left if and when Windows goes all-Metro and the ONLY way to install new software is via the App Store: they (we) won't be able to use something like this. --JorgeA

This is always where I get stuck. What problem does Windows 8 solve? Sure I can get used to it, but why would I? What's in it for me? If I really wanted an app store experience, why wouldn't I use an iOS and/or Android device which I already own? In light of the bolded statement, Microsoft's market doesn't even make sense: they're targeting a segment who wants "apps" but hasn't bought into either of the mature ecosystems. And they charge more for a less developed experience. Even 80 year olds have iPads. The first time I heard the argument that we need to put up with this stuff because of how Microsoft wants things to be I was literally stunned. It's like my brain melted. Who the hell cares what Microsoft wants? Who are these people who do care? I know some are on payroll but some seem to be pro bono sycophants. My brain is melting again. I totally agree. It's hard to wrap my head around that sort of attitude, not only accepting but all-too-often even enthusiastically endorsing and cheerleading whatever "change" is lobbed at them from on high, regardless of what said change actually does. It's almost like some herd instinct vs. the individual who thinks for himself, as in some dystopian sci-fi "B" movie. We've probably said this before, but if you read the fanboi comments at certain websites that shall remain nameless, you'll find the bulk of Win8 opponents offering logical arguments or substantial reasons for disliking the new OS, while supporters largely engage in name-calling and variations on the non-argument, "it's SOOOOOO cool!!" There are exceptions on each side of course, but I suspect that a content analysis of those comments sections would show this to be the case. --JorgeA

More bad news on Windows 8 PC sales: PC Shipments Could See Double-Digit Drop In Q1: IDC Word is getting out: (emphasis added)--JorgeA

I made it. Got stacks of them too. P.S. well I did the text and stuff. Someone else made the visuals, probably this one. That's very cool, I really oughta learn how to splice images together from different sources. --JorgeA

:realmad: is this really a translation issue? Maybe it really refers to Windows Azure? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Azure_Services_Platform I'm following up on this with a Russian speaker for confirmation: If you hover the mouse pointer over the Google translation, the original Russian appears on the screen. This is how the lead sentence reads: Note that "Windows Blue" is exactly the phrase that's used in the original (according to the Google translation page). Not a good sign, if the report is accurate. --JorgeA

We've had a number of Star Trek references in this thread. Jensen H., Julie L.-G. and their minions are in a way almost like a real-life version of the Borg. They take the attitude that "resistance is futile," they expect that ultimately we will all be assimilated, and reasoning with them is completely useless. Where'd you find that pic? --JorgeA

Wow, the "responders" seem to be remarkably thick-headed (lacking an appreciation of the problem). That Technet thread should be forwarded to Thurrott, Ed Bott and other Win8 apologists and see what they have to say. And also to tech news sites who can spread the word. However... isn't it possible to avoid the Metro mail and remote desktop apps, as one commenter suggests? Or are those services only available, in Win8, as Metro apps? --JorgeA EDIT: for clarity

A of Windows 8 by the same guy whose blog I quoted a few posts upthread: Make sure to check out the discussion (starting about 9:35) of how the Charms options change depending on the context, and how confusing that is. --JorgeA

A message to the good MS guys: Sure, the whole problem is that you need to turn 180 degrees in order to look forward, the NCI represents "backwards", I will re-iterate how you will soon be calling the desktop and start menu "legacy interface" with the intent of somehow give some more dignity to the NCI , but effectively undermining the value of what you provided all these years and that proved to be successful: http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/legacy-is-not-a-pejorative.html Among the above quotes, I particularly like the definition by Peter Langston: jaclaz How true! --JorgeA

Yes, I remember seeing that around here somewhere. It's VERY good. Worth posting back up here every few months, for the sake of new thread readers. --JorgeA

And now for a lighter touch (so to speak...): --JorgeA

Here's an excellent analysis of Windows 8 and what it means for Microsoft's future. While it ultimately falls against the new OS, it does so in a cool, clinical manner and it's not exclusively negative -- factors which actually help to increase the impact of his conclusions. A couple of core passages: All in all, well worth the read. --JorgeA

Excellent analysis over at Engadget: Microsoft is singing the right tune with some wrong notes The only misstep in the article is touting the figure of 60 million Windows 8 licenses sold as a positive sign. We know the problems with that. But there's a lot more good stuff: --JorgeA

So what this genius is doing is once again looking at Apple as his phantom competitor, no doubt green with envy. Nevermind the fact that Microsoft is simply milking its unethical monopoly of 90+% of 1.3 billion or more prisoners. Nevermind the fact that Windows 8 only actual competitor, Windows 7 has all but been removed from as an option while Vista, XP and everything else were long ago yanked from contention. iOS comes only installed on completely different devices that people must intentionally purchase. Like OS X it is not available as an option on anything for sale, let alone on anything where a customer can select it over Windows. Classic apples and oranges. But that is the Microsoft way. It is exactly like someone at the Post Office crowing that they have a larger user base than UPS or Fedex. Microsoft has played this game of lying about sales for so long that it is ingrained in the brains of these bozos. I have to hand it to them really. Like the pea shell game, they had almost everybody looking at Apple as an anti-trust foil while they built an iron-fisted OEM back-channel monopoly. This particular MicroZealot is but one example of it. I wish that Apple would now let their Mac OS loose into the wild either free for a small fee as an alternative OS. All they need to do is undercut the Microsoft tax and OEMs will begin offering systems with an actual 2nd choice. That will teach Microsoft a lesson for making believe they are competing with Apple and nurturing this crowd of fanboys that eagerly swallow it all. We may not have to think about that for very long, as Microsoft is flirting with failure in the phone and tablet markets where it did choose a straight-up competition with Apple. By sheer coincidence, my Internet travels last night led me to the following two-year-old quote from Ed Bott: Once it becomes clear that customers aren't welcoming the Metro proposition, there will be nothing better for Microsoft to do than to cut their losses and start repairing their relationship with longtime loyal users by fixing Windows 8. The fix would of course entail offering choice -- choice in having a native Start Button/Menu, choice in booting straight to the Desktop, choice in having a full-blown Aero that makes use of the advanced graphical capabilities of most modern (and I don't mean Modern) computers. Metro could become another obscure Windows feature that's known by few and used by fewer, like Windows Media Center or the Management Console. (I say this as one who uses the former every day and who makes the statement to an audience that's well acquainted with the latter. But I think the point still stands. ) --JorgeA

Here's one of the (IMO) best comments down below the main article: Note the plug for MSFN! LOL He does seem to do 180-degree turns often and unpredictably. --JorgeA

I come from the opposite angle, the end-user side. I have to admit, I was dubious about the whole Windows idea for a long time. My first introduction to an operating system was PC-DOS 1.1, and my first word processor was WordStar. Up until well into the '90s. I simply saw no need to switch to what I viewed as needless bloat on top of DOS. Extended memory? Expanded memory?? What's that??? GUI ewwey!! I didn't start using Windows (for Workgroups 3.11) until 1995, and even then it was only because my customers were asking for documents (1) via e-mail and (2) in .DOC (sometimes .RTF) format. But let it not be said that I am unthinkingly resistant to change. My feelings toward Windows made an about-face almost as soon as I booted up Windows 98 (Standard Edition) for the first time. (Never did try Win95.) Now there we had real, undeniable improvement all around, both in esthetics and in functionality. (The Start Button and Start Menu, which made things so much clearer and easier, helped to turn me. ) --JorgeA

More from IDC: Four months in, Windows 8 needs help No doubt the PC vendors have a better read on actual consumer preferences than do the telemetry nerds in Redmond. As to whether Microsoft is fixing Windows 8 or ever will -- we shall see. --JorgeA

How embarrassing, thanks for bringing it up. For the philosophically inclined, the question then arises: If a Surface RT flips closed and no one is around to hear it, does it make a clunking sound? A couple of articles related to the RT fiasco: IDC thinks Microsoft should forget about Windows RT, focus on Windows 8 instead IDC projects that the Windows 8 share in the tablet market will skyrocket all the way up to "nearly 7.4%" by 2017, while RT will remain below 3%. Not a bad "return on investment" for wrecking Windows. Is Windows RT confusing consumers? Maybe it’s all in the name (opinion) That's right -- Apple and Google adapted phone OS's to work on tablet devices, unlike Microsoft they did not try to make a desktop OS's fit on the tablet. --JorgeA

By sheer coincidence, I just came across an article that mirrors just what @HalloweenDocument12 said about "exploratory" vs. "goal-oriented" PC use: Never mind the title of the article, the concept really applies to anybody of practical mindset, or who doesn't have an excess of idle time to kill. I don't mind spending some time exploring alternative ways of doing things, but if I discover that a certain new way of doing things is harder and/or takes more time, then I lose interest in it. And then if vendors try to channel my choices toward buying into this new, impractical way, then I come to dislike the new way intensely. Hence my opinion of Windows 8... --JorgeA P.S. Shades of Metro: The Gnome 3 article linked to in the original text from the quote above has a lot that will sound awfully (and disgustingly) familiar to anybody who's been reading our thread: ... ... ... ...

PCWorld offers a good rundown of reasons NOT to move to cloud computing. Here's one we hadn't mentioned (that I can remember): --JorgeA

It could be (I hope so). Machine translation is literal and unreliable, and then there is the bit about azure, which as we know is a kind of blue. Plus, I haven't seen anything to confirm or deny this report elsewhere in the (English-language) press. Maybe a Russian speaker could go to the original website and give us a human take on what it says. --JorgeA

Fantastic insights that really bear repeating. I could underline or boldface almost every word there. I love the distinction that you draw between exploratory vs. goal-oriented activity. Your experience fortifies the (deeper) impression that Win8 is for play (i.e., a toy) rather than serious work. --JorgeA