JorgeA

Some figures to back up the graph -- Net Applications (the source quoted in the article above): Vista 4.99%, Windows 8 group 3.31% (Win8 3.17%, Windows 8 Touch 0.12%, Windows RT Touch 0.02%) "Touch" is having a huge impact, I see.... W3Counter (another statistics gatherer): Vista 5.01%, Win8 3.41% --JorgeA

The end for Windows RT? Microsoft finally approves cheap 7- and 8-inch Windows 8 tablets, might merge Windows RT with Blue --JorgeA

Hits the nail on the head. --JorgeA

That's very funny! --JorgeA

This is essentially the burying technique. Thanks very much for the explanation, that was illuminating. I'll keep an eye out for the technique in practice during my Web travels. This can be also very often seen by metrotards. Their "no one gives any valid reason to hate W8"-charade. Even if you bombard them with pages-long issues and links and stuff, they stay cool and continue to tout their 60-Million licenses sold number. Wow, I recognize these sorts of tactics from the political gangsters who run my native country (and the 'tards who defend them overseas). Offer blatant falsehoods as if they were fact, and demand a standard of proof from the other side that you would never apply to your own. The head-scratcher is that this is a commercial product we're talking about here in this thread, not a political ideology. You wouldn't think it could arouse such fanatical commitment. But there you are. --JorgeA EDIT: typo

That somebody was me. The policy you describe fits right in with what I was saying. Why make things fast and convenient for your customers when there's an extra $0.02 to charge them? Just eat the cost, tell your customers about it -- use those informational posters positively instead of negatively -- and they'll love you for it. A classic case of "penny wise, pound foolish." In our case, I stopped going to Blockbusters for several years, until I heard through the grapevine that they had fixed their ridiculous 1.5-day rental policy. But by then we'd discovered the cable company's On Demand service, and our trips to the video store after we started going back were never as frequent as before we stopped. --JorgeA

A generally pro-Windows 8 but fair commentary that makes some good points and offers some hope for the Desktop's future: Windows Blue won't be the end of the Desktop UI I do think this -- that PCs are too complex for many users who simply want to surf the Web and check their e-mail. That' i what tablets are for and one reason they've become so popular. What I object to is being compelled to deal with an interface that I find both esthetically abhorrent and functionally inferior because Microsoft wants to appeal to such simplistic uses. Give me the choice, upon the first boot of a new device, to decide which UI to live in -- and if I choose the Desktop, then banish the Modern UI from my PC completely: I do not want to be assaulted by this abomination every time I want to launch a new program. Never underestimate the capacity of a company that's strongly placed in a market, to be contemptuous of its customers and ignore their firmly and clearly stated preferences. I remember Blockbusters used to tout this "3-day rental" policy, where it turned out that if you rented a video at, say, 10PM Wednesday night, it was due back by noon on Friday -- on the brilliant theory that 10PM to midnight on Wednesday was "one" day, then Thursday was another day, and midnight to noon on Friday was a "third" day. You could have the video for barely a day and a half and that would be considered "3 days" when, practically speaking, there was only one day when you could watch it (the middle day). What keeps organizations in line is the marketplace, the possibility of failure -- which needs to be allowed to occur. Blockbusters' idiotic, bullying policy helped to alienate its customers and they started looking for alternatives. Eventually management rescinded that policy, but by then the dam was collapsing and it was too late to stop it from emptying out. They might even still be in business today had they not been such nearsighted, arrogant morons -- at worst it would have bought them time to establish a solid foothold in the fast-growing streaming market before Netflix claimed it. Today they have a presence there but nobody knows or cares about it. That aside, the writer of the linked piece evidently has an appreciation of business and, I believe, can come to understand that ultimately the Desktop and Modern UI's must be split from each other such that the twain shall never meet. The Desktop is clearly a second-class citizen in the Windows 8 world, and its users are never allowed to forget it. Metro gets in the way repeatedly to shock the senses and slow things down, both functionally and psychologically. Business users must ultimately get "our own" OS. Whether down the road that OS will be Windows, is up to Microsoft to decide. I'm not holding my breath. --JorgeA EDIT: tweaks

Interesting, I hadn't heard that term. And the observation about those three-sentence "reviews" goes to what you were saying that I commented on in the post just above this one, about the standard of thinking that all-too-often goes into Win8 fandom. --JorgeA

This always comes up as the last eightard resort. Battled enough of them on Channel9 and hardforum.com to know. After they get bombarded with W8 issues, they brush it off with "tl;dr" or just plain ignore it and continue to play the "no one is giving any valid reasons.." charade one week later. His last point (anti-marketing-campaign) is something I encounter quite often with MS employees when they talk about W8. "Biased press, they are all just haterz". This comment was particularly laughable. Reading through the bulk of these Windows 8 debates, reality is almost exactly the opposite: the mass of pro-Win8 comments are of the "it's new and cool and you're just a hater" type, whereas the anti-Win8 comments tend to be more specific and reasoned. There are exceptions on both sides of course, but IMO any kind of objective evaluation of a random sample of comments would show this to be the case. That's why over here the Win8 fans have been tagged as children even if they're not -- because childish are the type of "arguments" they offer. --JorgeA

Well, as a matter of fact we have had this for years, it is called "television". The trouble (if I read the article right) is that this new device would be controlled by a single provider -- Amazon or whoever. At least with over-the-air TV you can tune to different channels from separate sources. And then of course this new device would be monitoring us as we're watching it. --JorgeA

And now, for the ultimate lobotomized device: Jeff Bezos’ new patent envisions tablets without processors, batteries Great, a brainless device that's 100% dependent on a central computer somewhere. You as a little cog in a giant machine that keeps tabs on you as you passively accept whatever They deem it fit for you to see: Imagine the privacy implications of this. Tech is sounding increasingly like some 1950s science fiction movie. --JorgeA

Not about Microsoft, but the subject does have a bearing on MSFT's strategy and prospects for success: 5 reasons Electronic Arts is in big trouble (emphasis added)Sound familiar? I'm sure that a reading of the article will reveal other parallels to what Microsoft is doing, but I'll let others point them out... --JorgeA

@Formfiller's links led me to a bunch of good stuff, including other articles: First, some quotes from, and thoughts on, the linked items. Windows 'Blue': We waited for this? Subhead: A pirated copy of Windows 'Blue' has hit the ether, and it may be the least interesting update to Windows ever In the body of the article, author Woody Leonhard is less than thrilled with "Blue": Forget about Windows 'Blue' -- stay focused on Windows 7 InfoWorld enterprise reporter J. Peter Bruzzese comments on Leonhard's post: (emphasis added)Then he really starts laying into the whole Windows 8 concept: And now for the promised value-added content... A quick roundup of expert views on what Windows Blue means (or doesn't mean): Windows users are singing the 'Blues' One of the commentators cited in that piece: Windows 'Blue' confirms desktop's days are numbered Sadly, the false analogy between the move from DOS to GUI and the move from Desktop to Metro is given new life: No, no, no, no, no!!! The GUI ultimately represented an improvement in usability and productivity because it eliminated the need to memorize arcane commands and minimized the possibility of mistyping long sequences of keystrokes, then having to painstakingly review every character typed to find the mistake. Now in terms of usability, ergonomics, or productivity, exactly what net benefit does "touch" bring?? You can't use it for an extended period without developing sore arms, and the low onscreen information density requires more scrolling and/or drilling into menu structures (or else dispensing with features). And finally, watch out -- Microsoft is pushing ever harder on the "automatic updates" front: Microsoft's new security patching routine raises concerns Lovely -- so if an update goes wrong, it'll go wrong for everybody at the same time -- forget about holding off on installing an update to see if it's causing trouble. No doubt all done in the name of making things easier or more convenient for the mobs who are expected to start lining up around the block for future Windows 8 devices. More evidence of the creeping cretinization of Windows. What a nightmare. --JorgeA

Uh-oh: Why Windows Blue heralds the death of the desktop ( source) The GUI ultimately turned out to be an easier way to get work done on a computer. And even that was only after they invented the Start Button/Menu and the taskbar, which they are now getting rid of. I have yet to see anybody make a compelling case for tiles and touch being better -- in fact, touch on anything but a toy device is significantly more uncomfortable than a keyboard+mouse for more than a few seconds. As @CharlotteTheHarlot says, it's truly Idiocracy taking over. For serious users, Windows (and therefore Microsoft) will become increasingly irrelevant. And for casual users, it will become a pointless, me-too Apple clone. Where's the upside? --JorgeA EDIT: Added image source

Loved them!! --JorgeA

That was a pretty d*mning review. First time I've come across the term "shovelware," but it's appropriate. I liked his comment on the store's organization, where -- because of the low information density per screenful -- you have to scroll repeatedly to survey the storefront: I do have one quibble with the conclusion -- The trouble with the first question is that the premise is wrong. The Windows Store didn't "slip into" Windows. Like a boar's head on the body of a gazelle, it was grafted onto it by certain genius-level decisionmakers. The answer to the questions, I venture to say, lies in Microsoft's desperation to become like Apple, ASAP. --JorgeA

--JorgeA

Microsoft Cloud Services Locks You Out Of Your Digital Life, Wont Explain Why Still wanna move your digital life to the Cloud with a 64GB Surface? --JorgeA

FBI Pursuing Real-Time Gmail Spying Powers as “Top Priority” for 2013 Still wanna move your digital life to the Cloud with a 64GB Surface? This is the sort of technology that the KGB would have loved to have before citizens of the subjugated republics got together to end the Soviet occupation and then Boris Yeltsin climbed on the tank to bring down the USSR itself. The next time that (in the words of the signers of the U.S. Declaration of Independence) "it becomes necessary" to "alter or abolish" a government -- will it even be possible? --JorgeA

From an e-mail circular promoting the HP Pavilion TouchSmart 15z-b000 Sleekbook: Notice (1) her posture, (2) the way the laptop is balanced on the edge of the table, and, despite this, (3) the extension of her arm to reach out and touch the screen. Now imagine doing that, that way, for 8 hours a day. Or even 2. Actually, it's hard to think of any way to "touch" this machine comfortably for any extended period. Touch on anything other than a toy device? Nuh-uh. --JorgeA

LOL, good one! And as far as the $4999 price tag on this baby, don't worry -- before you know it there will be a study out of some public policy propaganda organization demonstrating that kids lacking access to this equipment in school will be disadvantaged and inevitably end up in prison or on the dole, therefore we can't deny it to them. --JorgeA

Another thought on this. Remember how the Metro Start Screen serves as an advertising vehicle for the Windows Store, and some "apps" have ads embedded in them. Now imagine being Steve B. or Julie L.-G. (or the maker of some other app) and thinking of all those young minds being exposed to your advertisement in the natural course of operating this Big Touch in the classroom. Heck, the thought of having just your bright colored tile (not officially an ad) on that 55" screen may be enough to make you salivate. --JorgeA

I wonder if it's occurred to anybody involved with that project, that a speaker actually touching this behemoth before an audience will necessarily be standing in front of the monitor, obscuring the display. ...Unless you want to control the screen with the (wireless) mouse, which -- as even some enthusiasts of the "touch-optimized" Win8 will admit -- doesn't work all that well. Sure, if your package includes Windows Media Center and a TV tuner. Otherwise you (or, should I say, taxpayers) will be paying even more... * * * Holy moly. Talk about needing "gorilla arms" to operate that thing... --JorgeA

After reading the exchanges betwen jaclaz and HalloweenDocument12, I stand by my initial position. Google Search results are of course inexact. But to quibble with them is to miss the point of the exercise entirely. My purpose with that post was to report here that there HAS been some interest expressed in boycotting Windows 8 -- which came as a surprise to me. A pleasant surprise, to be sure, but a surprise nonetheless. I wanted to share that sense with you all. The precise level of interest in a boycott would have to be determined by a painstaking content analysis of the search results, but what struck me was to discover that the idea has been raised at all, let alone more than once, as an actual reading of the first page or two of the search results will show. I had nothing more than this in mind when I wrote my post. While we're at it, it would be appreciated if participants here were to exercise tact when discussing each other's comments. If you think you have a better way to do something, then how about saying, "how about performing the search like this..." However, prefacing the suggestion with challenges such as... ...is needlessly confrontational and doesn't contribute to the discussion. Now, if you want to address Windows 8 advocates that way, that's a whole different matter. To my mind, one important reason that this thread exists is to support each other and to commiserate about the state of Windows 8 and its makers and advocates. --JorgeA

DO NOT use Google Search to support anything, siimply don't! http://homepage.ntlworld.com./jonathan.deboynepollard/FGA/google-result-counts-are-a-meaningless-metric.html I am well aware of the limitations of Google Search. If you have a better method for gauging the prominence/obscurity of a topic, please do tell. Consider the following comparative search results: Beatles vs. Princess Mafalda of Savoy You don't seriously mean to say that the Google Search results provide NO idea of the popularity of a given subject? It's not a perfect method, but a quick-and-dirty measure to give a rough idea, nothing more. --JorgeA