DeadDude

the driver install program clearly recognizes it as " AC'97 HD AUDIO CODEC " If it is wrong, I apologize, as I was simply going off of the install labels... (both the original install CD as well as the W2K driver called it this)

Pentium D cpu, not M....

May I know what motherboard you have used a exactly what drivers? Unfortunately there are many BIOSes without this legacy support. I've found a good one (combined) just in Gigabyte motherboards.Petr I believe this is a link to the proper board I am referring to... http://tw.giga-byte.com/Support/Motherboar...8I865GME-775-RH This board was highly recommended from all over the place... I would have thought it was prolific enough to be understood by specs... I'm sorry... Absolutely everything works without a hitch... I had a little bit of a run around with the installers on 2 out of 5 towers, but I pushed on and got them all running beautifully. These boards run 3.2 Ghz Pentium ?M? processors... For some strange reason, I have problems with a particular program (HPJOBBER, thread somewhere else here about it) printing totals on invoices... and I can't update W98SE and expect HPJOBBER to run at all near properly... but every other program, etc runs beautifully... The sound driver that came with the system actually does the deed just fine... but I downloaded a driver off of driverguide.com for Win2K that claimed to have more environments and a larger sound bank or something... That driver installed without a hitch, and was like 120megs downloaded...

The patching goes through without a hitch... my problem is I need to know what updates increases the Windows version number to what values? Or, if there is a way to force Windows to report a particular version number, I think this by itself may allow me to use all the updates without HPJOBBER having issues. The updates work great, the problem is HPJOBBER doesn't want to work properly for some reason when 98 is fully patched. Thank you for pointing out the list at the beginning, but I need to find out how those updates change the version reported. It seems as though HPJOBBER will not work properly *at all* if certain updates are applied- at one point I saw that an update didn't change the first two sets of numbers- methinks those updates won't breake HPJOBBER... I was just hoping someone had a table or something with the version numbers being updated with whatever updates being applied... I hope I have put this in a way that is properly understood... Sometimes I fumble with my words... (I believe the errant program, HPJOBBER, is somehow hard coded to specific versions of files... but I don't have all the version info involved... got a list of this involved with the updates in Auto-Patcher?) These computers **NEVER** go online. There is no internet connection even available on the site, so 'security updates' don't apply... Thanks for the attempts at help, it is greatly appreciated... I just hope I can get the actual problem across... those are good shots, but not quite on target... take another step or two, that's where I hit a wall...

I got one of the towers setup with 98SE (hologram CD), and it reports 4.??.1999 the same thing happens with auto-patcher... the OS and everything works *great*... but same issues in this one particular program... on 98 gold, the drives got thrashed *really* bad... sorry for missing that detail in my post... (now, the whole office is running standard 98SE... no updates at all installed.) Anyone know if they changed something with the date functions? Or the region money settings? I just can't pin it down... I *really* want to patch these towers... I know the date stuff isn't handled properly (still only 2 digits used for years), but other than that I am stumped. Do you know how to 'force' Windows to report a specific version? I know 'ver' returns it, but can it change it? I used to be a great 98 guru, but since I use XP daily the last 5 years, I lost much of what I knew... Or a list of official updates I can select in Auto-patcher? I enjoy the extras, but I can't figure out this problem on a stock machine, let alone a customised one...

Built-in video issues? Try minimizing the ram allocatted for the video. On some systems, Win9x has *major* issues depending on where the BIOS steals the RAM from for the video. I *know* there is a 'generic as all hell, standard SVGA, no acceleration, no windowed video' Intel driver somewhere... I know Linux people that use one similar for testing purposes... (I know, Linux ain't 9x compatible... but it was *based* off the original universal driver) I don't think this info will really help though, as I think y'all are looking for FULL functionality.... but it is something to keep an open eye for in your searches... See if you can find out what original chipset your particular chipset was expanded from... an older driver for the 'original' chipset might work on the newer chipset. Just to be clear, PCI-E IS NOT 9x COMPATIBLE!!! If it is, *please* prove it. You would make ****many**** people happy.

In regards to 'fixing' driver installs... In my experience, most of these 'checks' simply look at your Windows version. I don't know how to manually change it, I've already asked in another post... but shouldn't that be the first step to make these work? Editing the INF file can also release the lock under 98- as far as install executables, doesn't WDM support loading the files directly through Device Manager? You should be able to bypass the EXE files that way, and avoid most of the 'lock'. A **lot** of the newer Intel chipsets can gain minimum functionality using an older INF version... I got a new Gigabyte board using an older INF file, and the only things missing are SATA and HD audio (both built-in)... And even then, using a W2K driver fixed the audio issue... The sound is an AC'97 based driver, with FULL HD support in FULL SURROUND. Hell, even the dinky little environment program loads and runs properly. With DX8 or higher installed, **all** the HD audio functions work flawlessly. You read that right. F L A W L E S S ! ! At this point, you might get stuck on no SATA support... well, who gives a ****? You heard right, it doesn't matter! As long as you don't use a RAID setup on the drives, they still work flawlessly under 98. You see, the BIOS has 'legacy' support. Enabled, it allows all the SATA drives to be seen under 98SE as standard IDE drives. Please don't get TOO excited, though. From experience, I got lucky. Just take from this the knowledge that you could luck out like me. Don't stop trying just because of fatigue; it took me 2 days of fiddling to discover all this works on these rigs. If possible, I suggest using a gigabyte board- their site has a table of files and Win versions for drivers... this discovery made my fiddling a LOT easier. GOOD LUCK!!!

Have any of the people with problems every tried to update their BIOS? I had extremely similar issues on a brand new gigabyte board, with ONLY 256MEGS (one stick, frist slot of 3) I updated the BIOS to the newest one, and no more issues. I ran Memtestx86 for 3 days on all 5 towers (bought set of 5 for a business) **BEFORE** the BIOS update, and everything tested FINE. After the BIOS update, everything works great. No more stupid VMM.EXE errors. No more BSOD from ram... I am eager to find out if this proggy works on XP; my 2 gigs never hit 50% usage... although Oblivion peaks at about 1.5gigs ram, nothing else does. Not even encoding 2 different videos while burning a DVD and 15 torrents running... Oh yeah, Core DUOs kick butt... I wanna *make* 98 run on this little bad boy to see how fast it really can fly...

Howdy y'all. I've felt a little ambitious, and decided to attempt a "custom-driver loaded, pre-fab, total software packages installed" Live 98SE CD or DVD. I know the first step is actually creating a partition, installing 98SE, updating, etc... Then I put it all on a bootable CD/DVD... Now what? I got an E1705 Dell laptop with **all** the bells and whistles. I got 2 gigs ram, so loading the swapfile to a ram drive isn't a problem... and creating another ram drive for system usage isn't a problem, either... But, how the hell do I do it? Has anyone ever made a 'live' 98 cd? or a DVD? would it matter if I use a DVD? I already know 98 doesn't do PCI-E, but I am fairly confident I can at least make it usable for DOS stuff under 98... I have access to all the partition toolz and I can get access to almost any program neccessary... I just don't know *what* software... BartPE is for WinXP and whatnot... so what's for 98? I got NTFS on my hard drive, but I could rearrange for a small (SMALL <200Megs) partition, but I don't want actual Windows on it... I got thumbdrives, and this system will boot from it. So, if I need to load a floppy to enable something, I can use that for it. I also have a built-in flash reader, and a few spare 128meg MS stick PROs... Should I try to install to that first? Or instead? I like the Knoppix format; having LOADS of apps on the DVD is awesome. And I know that I'll have to code a LOT of batch files, that's ok. I just want to be able to do it- not to mention it would help troubleshoot for others... All my boxes run a flavor of XP... although I have gotten 98 booted on my PDA *once*...

I'm not sure where to find this info at... Where can I find a listing of *all* updates applied by this package? I have a program (HPJobber) that has *severe* problems with the updates applied. I nailed the issue down to the version number of Win98SE... Can anyone tell me which updates change that value to specific values? And how to manually override the version setting to read 4.10.1998? Fully updated, the version is like 4.?NOT 10?.2222 If I do not select ANY Media Player crap, or the DUN1.4, it doesn't keep that number down... If I don't select to install IE6 SPwhatever, most of the updates won't install. From what I can gather, HPJobber doesn't like one of the updates, or perhaps it is as simple as the version returned not being expected... I don't know. HPJobber is a total business 'solution'. Invoices, payroll, etc. The issues it has with the updates: All user data (that is added at install, but locked out after first use- like employee names for instance), is missing. The program acts as if it is an illegal install... which, AFAIK is impossible to do... the programmers told me themselves that all files are in the program folder, and to "copy" the folder to another PC... If I use an older PC with I believe 1.6Auto-patcher installed, there's no problems. I am using a brand new P4 3.2 tower (x5 units) with *full* Win98SE support from Gigabyte... and even *without* Auot-patcher, they still refuse to show total price on invoices... the field is empty... but all other prices and taxes are filled in automatically by the software.... if I use the older PC, the values are properly placed... HP Jobber runs over the network from one of the new towers to 4 other machines... including the older PC that has no issues.... I don't know what 'updates' Gigabyte installs for proper support on 98, but I think ONE of them killed the invoice price listing... Any ideas?? I am totally stumped... All the issues are resolved without Autopatcher (except the invoice total missing)... HPJobber support wants $75 an hour, a high speed internet connection (not feasible in the shop with this prob), and an "upgrade" to the newest version for $365 a year... methinks they just hard coded the version string into the program, and it causes issues like these to get people to upgrade... (They have in the past... the version in use here is the *only* one without a real-deal freakin' TIME-BOMB embedded in it to detonate every year...) Why not scrap the software altogether? It's an older business, with older owners... And the software is already overpowered for their use... but it is what 'they know'...

I don't recall *where* I read this, but someone informed me there is a way to use the SciTech drivers to 'wrap' a Linux driver for Win9x.... Might I also add, that *most* people using Win9x frankly don't give a **** about any of the frills... that's why they are *still* on Win9x. SATA, PCI-E.... cool stuff... but why? If you use Win9x, why would you need/want those things? All I am looking for is a ***simple*** wrapper-type driver that simply grants slightly better than no functionality... There is a way to finangle a PCI-E video card to be 'seen' as an AGP card, and it *will* work on Win9x... The 3D aspect may not work, depending on the card, but I personally don't care about that... I need NO DirectX support of any kind. If people want that, they *should* upgrade. SATA will work in IDE mode on most systems, but with quite a bit of yelling and breaking of stuff... No RAID support, though... but if you need that, you *should* upgrade. All the newer hardware/motherboards/etc that do NOT work *at all* on Win9x need to be addressed... OffTopic, sorta.... How does WinXP make 'vga' mode work on *all* video cards? With 8bit, 16bit, 24bit, 32bit color? At 800x600/1024/768? If you've seen it, you know it 'works', but that's about it. That is the functionality level we need.... At least to *start*. If you can make most, if not all hardware, have some sort of default "panic" mode.... just like the XP VGA driver... then who cares about the new crap? if it didn't exist in the 90s, 9x shouldn't use it to its full potential, thats just design... Let us not forget that is the original reason for upgrading an OS. Now, if you are some sadist who wants to use *all new hardware* with *all the latest gadgets and gizmos*.... on Win9x??? Come on... This thread is suppost to be about keeping the older OS and older software alive... And I for one think this community deserves it. Windows 98 is the *first* M$ OS that people *loved*. OT, but has on topic followup: Has anyone noticed that *all* the XBox referrences on M$ site have been removed??? Only XBox 360 info left now... Why would they not support hardware 2 years old? Because that's what they WANT. Buy the new stuff, kill the old stuff, make more money, buy the new, kill the old, make more money.... Do you want to be a part of that machine simply because you *need* to use a particular program? Screw that. I, like many others, love MY setup. If I can't customize, it never gets fully realized... Chuck it in the trash. Did ANYONE setup a website or ANYTHING to support this idea? Is there a petition? Tell me how to do one, I got over 5,000 people right now to sign. The majority of the heating and air conditioning repairpersons, custom engine shops, machine manufactering plants, small retail shops, fast food places (McDonald's uses Win98SE for their registers here in Florida), ALL USE WINDOWS 98SE OR OLDER. I know the owners of these bussinesses around here, and every single one of them would happily sign a petition to get M$ to get off the code somehow... Just tell me where to send them... We will make this be a bloody, righteous war my brothers... The hydra shall rear it's head once more, then no more... Raise your voices up, and make thunder with your words. We shall overtake the beast one way or another... Do not fight blindly, for only with honor can you join us at the feast... ::it's a joke, knowing my luck someone will think I mean to do violent things... I *don't*, it's dramatical posting here ::

First and foremost- I joined this forum just to pitch my two cents into this discussion.... and to thank everyone for all their hard work on these projects. There are MANY people trapped in Windows 9x. They are REQUIRED to KEEP it. Now, no more caps.... A small custom racing engine shop in my area uses a small (5) Win98SE network. Numerous times they have tried to upgrade to a newer OS. They can't. Why? The software that 'reads' the dyno computer is DOS only. The software that 'reads' the camshafts is Windows 9x ONLY. Why is this software stuck in older OSs'? Well, the dyno needs DOS for the serial port- you know, that port that is also called an RS232 port? Yeah, that's the one. The software is DOS only, because that's the only way to get proper, perfect RS232 port emulation outta the machines. Versions of the software exists for newer Windows (XP mainly), but the test results are a LOT shottier. IE instead of seeing jagged lines in the graph, the XP version shows a *clean* curve. The other software, the cam one, uses a special HASP driver and plug. I can't for the life of me find a patch, fix, anything for this software. This software claims to run on XP, but only if the system begins as a Win9x machine and is upgraded all the way to XP. (something to do with making the driver migrate??) We have just bought enough parts to build 5 Windows 98SE machines... brand spanking new. Thank God for this site and the threads on newer hardware... I've already thanked Gigabyte for including and conducting Win9x compatibility software drivers. You see, there are a great deal more reasons to 'hang on' to this supposedly dead OS. BACK TO THE TRUE POINT OF THIS THREAD!!!!! Pardon my language (n00b here, and don't know what is 'offensive') HELL YEAH!!!! Open sourced "wrappers" for installers.... We also need drivers that will work on Win98 and allow basic hardware functionality... basic (BASIC!!!!) USB support (keyboard, mouse, printers?), at least upto 1024x768 16bit colors (methinks everything 'work related' should run in this mode, right?), and proper shutdown/restart files. Oh yeah, also need network drivers... but I find most cards still include these (just not built-in motherboard based ones, the ones you get for free!) Seriously, if we could just get DRIVERS created for Win9x, 95% of the battle is won... then we could worry about blowing the hood off and doing it without M$... right now, we need this OS to still run on the newer hardware.... otherwise it won't matter what you do... if Win9x can't run well enough to work with, who cares about it at all? just my two cents, as I said above.. don't forget the industrial workers, either... I admin'd a production plant for 2 years... they STILL run Win98/ME for similar reasons... the manufacturing machines run DOS 3.someting and ME still has a DOS mode... good enough to program the big machines. you see, we just need the OS to actually work properly... installing newer software can come much later, you'll lose most of the people that can benefit the most if you wait too long.

Well, I have something to throw into the mix... I currently admin a tiny spec of a network for a custom engine shop. The shop has to have DOS compatibility- the dyno machine uses a DOS program to read all the ports and whatnot. While there *is* a version that will run on XP, it does NOT give similar results. The DOS version will make a jagged line across the graphs, showing every little lag in power over the curve... The XP version shows a clean, constant curve. Methinks it is the HAL (mentioned ealier in this thread), which just sucks. I mean, because of the lack of detail, the XP version is virtually useless. This poor guy running the shop is STUCK having to use '98. And in that respect, I must thank everyone that keeps this place running, and everyone working still on keeping the OS alive... Now if we could keep the hardware alive... Or make the DOS and Windows 9x work on the brand spankin' new hardware.