My observations and current issues with vLite

[jamieo]

The following post (which is in no way exhaustive or 'official') lists mostly minor issues that if fixed would (IMO) result in a perfect, final quality release of vLite. That said, some points listed below may be due to the design of windows and it may not currently be possible to remove a certain component without breaking another - this is known as a dependency and is not the fault of vLite.

It is my intent that listing my observations here will lead to others sharing any workarounds or fixes they may have found for these issues so that vLite and it's users can all benefit further from the great work nuhi has put in.

General issues:

• None
  

Components that leave behind broken UI elements:

• Broken links in Control Panel
  While some parts of the control panel can be removed along with relevant components there are many links that are not removed for components such as Remote Desktop, Task Scheduler, Defrag, System Restore... Unfortunately, it looks as though it will not be possible to remove these links without extensive hacking of the Control Panel's system files. Something which isn't preferred so hopefully some better solution will be found...
  
• Windows Search
  I already kept it purely because I cannot find a way to remove the annoying prompt (screenshot below...) that occurs whenever a search is performed without the service running - even though searches still work. Does anybody have a fix for this?? A registry setting to disable this would be great (there is already one for a similar message).
  Removal also causes Outlook (2007) to repeatedly offer to install windows search.
  
• Task Scheduler
  The way Vista is configured causes the Task Scheduler to be required for some system sounds (but not all) which are controlled by a task called 'SystemSoundsService' listed under 'Multimedia'. This creates an (unnecessary) dependency and therefore removal will prevent some sounds, such as Messagebox Prompts, from working. This is not the fault of vLite but I'd really like to get rid of this one somehow as previous versions of windows didn't depend on the task scheduler just to get the odd messagebox sound!
  This dependency has now been listed in vLite but I've kept it here in the hope that a solution can be found
  

Component removals that break other functionality:

• Application Experience
  I have to keep this component else some VB and OCX components will not register causing the VB Runtime installer to fail. This component is pretty big (as are it's hotfixes) at 25MB so it would be nice if the component could be removed without breaking VB/OCX functionality. Easiest way to reproduce is attempting to install VB6.0-KB290887-X86.exe - results in screenshot below...
  Update: Creating a custom installer for just the VB6 runtimes not already included in the base vista install seems to workaround this problem. This is just a guess but perhaps all Application Experience is doing in this scenario is silently preventing outdated and unneeded components from being installed? I think the related SQL Express issue was resolved some time ago but I'm unsure if any other programs are affected.
  

Suggestions for further removals

• Components that are not installed
  It would be nice to enable the removal of the unused components that can be found under 'Turn Windows Features On/Off.' There are many but I guess a good start would be 'Indexing Service', 'MS Message Queue Server' and child components, 'Subsystem for UNIX' and 'ActiveX Installer Service'
  

Hopefully nuhi will find this summary useful and provide some feedback of current or intended fixes to these problems. As previously said, apart from additional components being added I think fixing the above problems will bring vLite pretty d​amn close to final!

Jamie

Edited December 26, 2007 by jamieo

[nuhi]

Excellent list, thank you.

Now to reply on some of them, others are considered valid:

Hibernate is forced on - isn't that the default behavior...btw I really doubt that vLite is the culprit there...maybe that script needs something removed though...try manually in cmd with admin privileges.

chkdsk has a blank screen during boot - check if you disabled GUI during booting, XP had the same issue, not vlite related.

Broken links in Control Panel - many of them are hard-coded but I'll check if some of which you have reported are actually registry leftovers

[jamieo]

Hibernate is forced on - isn't that the default behavior......try manually in cmd with admin privileges.

Yes, the Window's default is ON, but it seems vLite is enforcing the default setting itself. I turn hibernate OFF with the cmd already posted above using a batch file ran from autounattend.xml during the specialize pass (which has admin privs.). This worked until the last vLite release but vLite now seems to set it back ON after my batch file runs (which it does do as the other settings are made successfully).

Admittedly, I only observed this behaviour once as I have now overridden it by repeating the hibernate OFF command using runonce during the first logon - but it's an inconvenient workaround as I make other power setting changes that I'd like to keep together in one script (I have other PCs that have different settings and it's handy just to swap the script over).

It's my guess that as I do not use the tweaks page vLite is forcing the default choices for it, ie: the code runs despite the UI not being shown. My suggestion is that the user expects code for the tweaks page is not even ran if that page was never selected. Additionally, even when using the tweaks, vLite should never set a default ie, vLite should never set hibernate ON (only OFF if the user chooses it) - as you've already said, the default is ON already so vLite does not need to make that setting and doing so risks overwriting settings that are made externally to vLite.

chkdsk has a blank screen during boot - check if you disabled GUI during booting, XP had the same issue, not vlite related.

Ah... do you mean the setting used to show the high colour boot image on Vista (bcdedit /set quietboot yes). I'll test it now and report back, will be disappointing if it is but makes sense (in a f**ked up, m$ way!)...

Edit: Confirmed the quietboot setting is responsible, thanks for the heads up - doubt I'd have considered it myself...

Broken links in Control Panel - many of them are hard-coded but I'll check if some of which you have reported are actually registry leftovers

Thanks, I considered they might be hardcoded but I see you have removed many others so thought it worth reporting.

If it's safe to assume the other points are already being looked at then the next release should be awesome!

Edited August 12, 2007 by jamieo

[nuhi]

Yes I will look the others.

Let me repeat...vLite will not change any tweaks if you don't select that page or the setting isn't bold (changed from the detected value).

Check your script on the full Vista and with new components kept if the full one worked, could be that some of them is needed.

[jamieo]

Let me repeat...vLite will not change any tweaks if you don't select that page or the setting isn't bold (changed from the detected value).

Cool, that's what I was unclear on - I did not realise you already confirmed it. That being the case then something else must have changed as hibernate has always been off for me previous to Vlite 1 beta... However, I noticed another post asking for vLite to make the hibernate default to ON. If vLite previously defaulted to OFF then it's possible my script never worked at all and vlite turned off hibernate for me??

Check your script on the full Vista and with new components kept if the full one worked, could be that some of them is needed.

I've been relectent to reinstall up until this point as I'm having problems with Virtual PC and don't have a free partition anymore. However, as you've confirmed the tweaks shouldn't be the cause I will try a full vista install asap.

Jamie

[jamieo]

Ok, using Shift+F10 I tried running the command at the same point my script runs during setup and got the following error:

C:\>powercfg -HIBERNATE OFF

The following items are preventing hibernation on this system.
	There are one or more legacy drivers installed: 
		VgaSave

It seems the command to configure hibernation fails at this point as there is no proper video driver installed yet (weird as I want to turn it OFF).

So, it seems the command never worked at all and something else (maybe an 'undocumented feature' of previous vLite?) was previously disabling hibernate. After the reboot that occurs almost immediately after the specialize pass the command does work (when video drivers are installed) so I'll just move my script there and hopefully that'll be it.

Jamie

Edited June 13, 2007 by jamieo

[nuhi]

When vLite disables Hibernate it does it before the install so yes it is disabled during install as well.

[blaatmans]

I recently bought this game, brothers in arms. I put it in the disk drive and..... nothing happens!

now I know it's because I removed game explorer.......... not very handy.

[dexter.inside]

what's wrong with installing it manually?

[nuhi]

blaatmans, how did you conclude that? Sounds to me you simply turned off the autorun feature.

[jamieo]

Updated first post to reflect changes for 1.0 RC. Removed issues that have been resolved - many thanks to nuhi.

Issues Resolved in vLite 1.0 RC:

• Removal of Help
  vLite forces removal of the Start Menu's Help item.
  
• Last Session_u.ini
  Only cosmetic but it would be nice if this file wasn't written to the disc when the unattended page wasn't used.
  
• 13MB - Performance Counters
  SQL Server 2005 will not install with this component removed.
  
• 10MB - Collaboration
  netsh dependent on a dll from this component.
  
• Internet Explorer
  Script errors in some apps that use the html engine (ie, chm help) when IE is removed but html engine is kept.
  
• 6MB - Volume Shadow Copies
  Previous Versions tab remains after removal of shadow copies and system restore
  
• 1MB - PhotoScreensaver.scr
  The screensaver component leaves this one behind.
  
• 5MB - %PUBLIC%\Pictures\Sample Pictures
  No component (inc. Wallpaper) currently removes these.
  
• 3MB - MSN Installer
  No component (not even IE) currently removes this installer from %ProgramFiles%\MSN, I always delete it.
  
• 75MB - Setup files from installation DVD
  There's another 75MB that can be removed if you always plan to boot from the dvd to install vista as the files are duplicated within boot.wim
  

Edited July 8, 2007 by jamieo

[jamieo]

Issues Resolved in vLite 1.0 Final:

• Cannot 'safely remove' my USB HDD anymore
  The addition of the Portable Devices component resolves this issue with Vista.
  
• Game Explorer
  nuhi has done his best with this component to maintain compatibilty
  
• Internet Connection Sharing
  Windows Firewall is still dependent on ICS but that fact is now listed in vLite
  

[jamieo]

I've only been affected by one new issue in this release (autounattend.xml) while two have been resolved... (not to mention the boatload of new features added) ...we're getting closer to the dream!

Issues Resolved in vLite 1.1 Beta:

• Hold'em Help now fixed!
  
• Bluetooth Modem Driver now kept
  

[datalife]

Broken autounattend.xml functionality (New)

The 'servicing' section within autounattend.xml can no longer be used with a vLited image since 1.1b. Setup aborts just prior to the first reboot complaining that settings cannot be applied. I use this section to uninstall some games (see snippet below) but there are many other things that can be added, removed, or otherwise configured within this section...

This is the same of my last report ?

@Nuhi: somes serious issues in vLite 1.0 and 1.1

1° problem -> affected vLite 1.0 and 1.1 version's

After remove Internet Explorer component with vLite (v1.0/1.1) all the function in tab "protection" of ie7 internet options stop to work. Is not possible to add custom site's list in security categories. The system return popup error with red x circle. If Internet Explorer componente is not removed with vLite all work fine.

With IE component removed from vLite - > error show

img-001 - img-002 - img-003

Without IE component removed from vLite -> all work fine

img-000

2° problem -> affected only vLite 1.1 version -> MUI integration problem "seriuos problem" problen not exist in vLite 1.0 with same .ini configuration

Test to retail and genuine "localized" italian distribution of Vista (homepremium and ultimate) source VISTA-IT-DVD 32/64bit

Retail and Genuine "localized" italian distribution of vista has alredy built-in IT-MUI-LANGUAGE integrate.

vLite recognize from "integration" tab Italiam MUI language alredy installed (if this is or not enabled) img-011

- From vLited 1.1 image installation of Vista is not possible remove or add more installed default modules or functionality of SO like (differential compression, XPS support, HTTP print support, games and more...)

- Procedure stop and system return error popup with "red x circle"

- Event viewer return red error and the word MUI is present in all description's.

- The problem not exist with vLite 1.0 same .ini configuration

- Tested with and without add other "new pathes"

Vista image created with vLite 1.0

img-004 - img-005 - img-006 - img-007 - img-008

Vista image created with vLite 1.1

img-009 - img-010

Nuhi this is one very crucial problem please your attention!

P.S. Complete eventviewer .evtx archive (to load in local event viewer) and .ini presets files (to local load in vLite or notepad) are attached to this post.

Thanks

_eventviewer_vLite11_error.7z

_ini_presets.7z

Edited August 11, 2007 by datalife

[jamieo]

This is the same of my last report ?

No, I don't think so. My issue relates only to unattend.xml - Removal using the 'Turn Windows features on or off' UI works as expected.