Linux and Multi-Boot

[jetman]

It's done at last, except for a couple of quirks, which for the moment are completely harmless. The new menu works, the new Slax kernel works (altho apparently not at first, then I woke up fresh !), and CAT.C32 can in fact be used for simple help text files directly from the menu !

Next, I hope to look into that other thing I mentioned last week, that is, opening up the compressed ramdisk for Kubuntu. I suspect that's where one can hack a quik change, so that Kubuntu's boot files/dirs can be relocated.

Later....Jet

[kof94]

Just though I'd post an update. Why didn't I use isolinux from the start?!

This looks sick (see attached) well compared to the basic CDShell menu I used to have anyway.

Not sure if I'll actually use this, I just wanted I idea of what I can to with the menu's.

Now on to submenus....

*attachment deleted*

Edited February 16, 2007 by kof94

[jetman]

Just though I'd post an update. Why didn't I use isolinux from the start?!

This looks sick (see attached) well compared to the basic CDShell menu I used to have anyway.

Not sure if I'll actually use this, I just wanted I idea of what I can to with the menu's.

Now on to submenus....

Good work. I can't imagine why you wouldn't continue. Seriously....

I tried the BCDW/CDSHELL route initially, over a year ago. Part of the prob was that was trying to get something like this (a slick graphical menu) going very quickly. At that time, there weren't as many people involved w/ samples to offer, etc, so forth. Chief among my failures was that I didn't know about the boot-info-table deal, plus NERO was my main burning tool (which knows diddly about a boot-info-table !) Add to that, CDSHELL is a procedural/batch lang and I really didn't want to read several pages just to display a simple menu, so CDSHELL was doomed from the start.

Then, starting in Sept, I banged my head against a wall for weeks, trying to coerce GRUB into booting BARTPE from CD ! That was when I revisited ISOLINUX. Bef long, I had a workable splash and a serviceable menu system for my projects. At last, I had consistent and reproducible success. Success is wonderful thing !

Part of me is tempted to revisit GRUB, bec it is a powerful tool, superior to SYSLINUX/ISOLINUX. However, that's unlikely, as I have many other things I want to do that are more likely to be successful....Jet

PS: Did you do the graphic all by yourself ? Regardless, it's a good job. Some people smoke crack, others shoot heroin, I'm a wallpaper fiend ! So, this is based on stuf from my collection....

Edited February 11, 2007 by jetman

[inspectmaster]

Linux needs to simplify the installation process for all platforms.

http://www.inspectmaster.com

[jetman]

Linux needs to simplify the installation process for all platforms.

http://www.inspectmaster.com

That comment isn't really germane to this discussion. I beleive your comment is directed at the fact that ther isn't an InstallShield-type builder for Linux. That seems like an accurate observation, but not approp here....Jet

[kof94]

Personally I used CDShell cos it was the loader of choice from Flyakite's guide!

I'm quite impressed about how easy it is to create an interesting menu using isolinux and I'm determined to make it work for me in the way I want it to.

I haven't really ran into any problems except for memdisk which does cause problems. I'm still trying to look for an alt for booting floppies when memdisk falls over.

As I said before my main reason for moving to isolinux is because CDShell is no longer an active project. If this was not the case I would probably still be using it just because of the selection of loaders available to counter any problems. This doesn't help though when your disc wont boot to start with on some machines (usually a machine you really need it for), something isolinux suffers less with.

PS: I grabbed the image from DeviantArt, I though it looked interesting... . Your screens are much more involved than mine, I just get lazy after a while.

[jetman]

Personally I used CDShell cos it was the loader of choice from Flyakite's guide!

I'm quite impressed about how easy it is to create an interesting menu using isolinux and I'm determined to make it work for me in the way I want it to.

I haven't really ran into any problems except for memdisk which does cause problems. I'm still trying to look for an alt for booting floppies when memdisk falls over.

As I said before my main reason for moving to isolinux is because CDShell is no longer an active project. If this was not the case I would probably still be using it just because of the selection of loaders available to counter any problems. This doesn't help though when your disc wont boot to start with on some machines (usually a machine you really need it for), something isolinux suffers less with.

PS: I grabbed the image from DeviantArt, I though it looked interesting... . Your screens are much more involved than mine, I just get lazy after a while.

RSN, I will try DISKEMU, as I too am having trouble w/ MEMDISK. My preferred RAM diag (Doc Mem) crashes for no good reason. The other parts of the same floppy image work fine, but Doc Mem craps out.

As far as loaders go, how many does one really need ?

DeviantArt is a definite keeper ! Thanx. More dope for the wallpaper fiend ! I got those images of mine via Google Images. A search for +Linux +Wallpaper or +"Star Wars" +Wallpaper and I was high for days !

[kof94]

As far as loaders go, how many does one really need ?

You don't really need loads, just one like diskemu or BCDW that reads an image from the disc instead of loading it in memory!

I'm not really sure how to get round this at the mo but I'm sure something can be done.

[jetman]

As far as loaders go, how many does one really need ?

You don't really need loads, just one like diskemu or BCDW that reads an image from the disc instead of loading it in memory!

I'm not really sure how to get round this at the mo but I'm sure something can be done.

Kof: Not to be dense or argumentative, exactly what do you mean by: 'BCDW that reads an image from the disc instead of loading it in memory' ?

For ex, SYSLINUX deals w/ FAT-formatted media, ISOLINUX deals w/ cdfs/iso9660 media, EXTLINUX deals w/ ext2-formatted media, etc. When you select something from the menu, <xxx>LINUX loads your choice into RAM and boots it. What else is there ?

[kof94]

Kof: Not to be dense or argumentative, exactly what do you mean by: 'BCDW that reads an image from the disc instead of loading it in memory' ?

For ex, SYSLINUX deals w/ FAT-formatted media, ISOLINUX deals w/ cdfs/iso9660 media, EXTLINUX deals w/ ext2-formatted media, etc. When you select something from the menu, <xxx>LINUX loads your choice into RAM and boots it. What else is there ?

Ok, crash course in CDShell.

CDShell was developed as an updated version of Diskemu, however, it became a shell (hens the name) for the most widely used CD/floppy boot loaders available.

These included:

- Diskemu

- BCDW

- Isolinux

- Memdisk

There is also another command called 'chain', mainly used for loading windows boot sectors but I have no idea where that came from.

The main differences about Memdisk and Diskemu are:

Diskemu reads the contents of the image from your disc bit-by-bit in memory as required. Memdisk loads the entire image in memory.

Memdisk does have some advantages but in my personal experience causes more problems that it solves. The reason Docmem and many other programs don't like memdisk is because they require the memory space already occupied by it!

The author of CDShell also enabled Diskemu to read the contents of .iso images aswell which in my opinion makes it vastly superior.

Now onto BCDW (Bootable CD Wizard).

This project has also been abandoned, however, it has some of the advantages of the above mention Diskemu.

It can load windows boot sectors, binaries e.g. isolinux.bin and read floppy images in the same manor as Diskemu. It can also load iso's but it only reads the boot sector.

At present I feel that BCDW may be our best option to hodge together a loader mechanism for our troublesome floppy images.

I'm going to download 2.1a and try to see if I can past a command to boot various images from isolinux.

Ideally I'd like someone to reverse engineer CDShell and extract diskemu from it but I can't see that happening. Besides, even if I wrote to the author and got the source code I'd need someone else to rewrite it.

I hope this helps to highlight what I mean. If you still not sure, download a copy of UBCD, press [insert] before selecting any of the progs to enable the loader selection menu (so called "expert mode") and have play. Try Docmem using Memdisk, Diskemu and BCDW.

Catch ya later.

[kof94]

@Jet

The new version of UBCD is out in beta form and contains things like Docmem and most other apps I've been struggling with.

I haven't taken a look at the guts yet to see how Victor has worked around these issues but it's looking rather good. Suppose it takes the experts to work these things out.

You can pick up a copy of the beta here..

Later.

[jetman]

@Jet

The new version of UBCD is out in beta form and contains things like Docmem and most other apps I've been struggling with.

I haven't taken a look at the guts yet to see how Victor has worked around these issues but it's looking rather good. Suppose it takes the experts to work these things out.

You can pick up a copy of the beta here..

Later.

Thanx for the heds-up. I really need to update my tool disks and UBCD is going to be added to big DVD mashup at last. Actually, he's had DOC MEM in there for a long time. Two versions of it, in fact. One version worked, the other didn't.

What issues does he work around that are so significant ? This is where you always lose me. I suspect you sweat details that (in the end) aren't important to your goal. I'd like DOC MEM to work in my setup, solely bec it's twice as fast as MEMTEST. But I have MEMTEST. It works, it always worked. DOC MEM isn't mine (I didn't write it) and it doesn't work from this menu bec of things that have nothing to do w/ my work. So who cares about the rest....Jet

[kof94]

Thanx for the heds-up. I really need to update my tool disks and UBCD is going to be added to big DVD mashup at last. Actually, he's had DOC MEM in there for a long time. Two versions of it, in fact. One version worked, the other didn't.

What issues does he work around that are so significant ? This is where you always lose me. I suspect you sweat details that (in the end) aren't important to your goal. I'd like DOC MEM to work in my setup, solely bec it's twice as fast as MEMTEST. But I have MEMTEST. It works, it always worked. DOC MEM isn't mine (I didn't write it) and it doesn't work from this menu bec of things that have nothing to do w/ my work. So who cares about the rest....Jet

All previous versions of UBCD were made using CDShell as the main menu system. The reason Docmem worked (after a few modifications) was because you had the choice to use Diskemu as the loader.

The reason I find this version interesting is because Victor has switched to Isolinux as the main menu system and has managed to boot Docmem using Memdisk with some switches.

I know this is purely academic when other apps such as Memtest86+ work anyway but information like this could help when you really want to get an important app working of your own.

The main benefit of this release is I don't have to mess about adding tools to my DVD. UBCD takes care of that, besides a couple of paid for apps. Also, now I've finally worked out using Isolinux to a reasonable degree my project can go back to taking a couple of days to update. Woo-hay! You can now sigh in relief, no more stupid questions from that kof94... .

Later.

[jetman]

<snip>

All previous versions of UBCD were made using CDShell as the main menu system. The reason Docmem worked (after a few modifications) was because you had the choice to use Diskemu as the loader.

The reason I find this version interesting is because Victor has switched to Isolinux as the main menu system and has managed to boot Docmem using Memdisk with some switches.

I know this is purely academic when other apps such as Memtest86+ work anyway but information like this could help when you really want to get an important app working of your own.

The main benefit of this release is I don't have to mess about adding tools to my DVD. UBCD takes care of that, besides a couple of paid for apps. Also, now I've finally worked out using Isolinux to a reasonable degree my project can go back to taking a couple of days to update. Woo-hay! You can now sigh in relief, no more stupid questions from that kof94... .

Later.

Tell the truth, I'm going to (eventually) try DSKEMU1 under ISOLINUX to try ONE MORE TIME to deal w/ DOC MEM DOC MEM notwithstanding, I've solved the CD loader thing to almost-complete satisfaction and spend my quality time building out Slax into something I can use full-time. I gave it fully-functional NTFS support and (tonite) am coding something to improve KDE's Konqueror.

I don't know how much you use Linux, but if you haven't tried Slax, you mite consider giving it a look. The only other live CD that seems as close from a portability standpoint is PuppyLinux and that feels too trivial for my taste. Later....Jet

[kof94]

Tell the truth, I'm going to (eventually) try DSKEMU1 under ISOLINUX to try ONE MORE TIME to deal w/ DOC MEM confused.gif DOC MEM notwithstanding, I've solved the CD loader thing to almost-complete satisfaction and spend my quality time building out Slax into something I can use full-time. I gave it fully-functional NTFS support and (tonite) am coding something to improve KDE's Konqueror.

I don't know how much you use Linux, but if you haven't tried Slax, you mite consider giving it a look. The only other live CD that seems as close from a portability standpoint is PuppyLinux and that feels too trivial for my taste. Later....Jet

I've found some problems with the current UBCD beta, actually didn't work as well as expected when tested on a live system. I've been giving feedback to Victor about this, just have to see what happens.

If you manage to get diskemu to work by passing commands through isolinux please post your method cos I've drawn a blank. I can load the diskemu binary but I can't make it accept any arguments!

I use Linux very little but I have a keen interest thats growing by the day. I have a permanent dual boot between Ubuntu and Win XP which means I can easily wonder into Linux land when the mood takes me.

I have looked a Slax but it's just easier to whack Knoppix on my disc since I don't really have the knowhow or time to learn how to configure it. It is very fast though, even from a DVD.

Edited February 24, 2007 by kof94