USB Audio Problems and Audio questions (Solved)

[awkduck]

Anyone have problems with "EXTREMELY" choppy USB audio.

If you click on the tray speaker/volume slider, small parts of the audio adjustment alert space out and play for a really long time.

I'm going to take the install, and test it on a different machine (one proven to work with Win98 USB audio); just in case it got broken. Then if the problem persists, I know its not a hardware issue.

Edit: As feared, it is not a hardware issue. If I can detect the cause, I'll post it. Wondered if it had to do with trying to use the USB WDM driver, at the same time as the AC97 VXD driver. But after replacing the AC97 VXD, with a WDM driver, the problem was still there.

 

Are there Win98 VXD drivers for AC'97 cards? Especially, when you get to the 2005-2008 machines. I know there are for Win95.

Edit:For AC97, it seems that most likely they, the existing VXD drivers, are for Win95; usable on Windows 98 

 

The following happens on multiple machines. Anyone experience this?

I've had issues change from a VXD driver to WDM. Suddenly, programs that use "DX audio FX" crash on load (Example, SoundForge 5). Cakewalk 9 (no DX FX) needed to be downgraded to ver 7 on one machine, and 5 on another, or it would also crash. Dxdiag does not even work, unless I also downgrade to DX7.

I might be able to stick with the VXD driver, but Steinberg DX-ASIO does not work with drivers in DX emulated mode. But I'm having suspicions that is isn't supposed to be in emulated mode (full DX support). The WDM driver isn't in emulated mode, and works with ASIO4ALL anyway; but the programs with low latency demands are crashing. Other then really bad "live" latency (best 156ms) the VXD driver works great.

I know there may not be a lot of Audio/Music people here, but I thought I'd ask just in case.

Edited September 20, 2023 by awkduck

[pangoomis]

Installing official WDM Audio Update - KB242937 for 98SE might help - http://ftp.tekwind.co.jp/pub/asustw/beta/mb/driver/269601USA8.EXE

I never had major problems with USB Audio Cards, they work out-of-the-box together with the built-in USB 1.1 support in 98SE.

I would suggest removing all audio cards, disabling all built-in audio devices, reinstall 98SE fresh with the USB Sound Card plugged in and the update applied. (no unofficial USB drivers are needed as long as USB is enabled in BIOS, and USB 2.0 is not required for USB Sound Cards to work)

[ABCDEFG]

I don't know what chip is in your sound card, but i can tell you that those Realtek ALC6xx chips are pure evil for 9x systems! None of these chips have a proper fully functional 9x drivers.

[awkduck]

@MrMateczko I back-up my installs, as they develop. Testing an earlier install, USB worked fine.

Wondering if clearing out "Windows\Options\Cabs" caused something incorrect to get copied, during the USB audio device installation?

@ABCDEFG I can't remember which chip it is, off hand. From what I can tell, this isn't an ideal audio device. The "WDM" drivers install with DirectSound support (crashes applications using DX audio plugins). But the "VxD" drivers install as emulated.

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Class\MEDIA\0010\DirectSound\Device Presence]
"Emulated"=dword:00000001
"VxD"=dword:00000001
"WDM"=dword:00000001

Correcting the "WDM", and changing the "Emulated", values has makes no difference. This has been the case since the fresh installation.

But, I may have fallen in to some luck. The "WDM" USB audio driver does not cause crashes (with applications using DX audio plugins). The USB audio does work with ASIO4ALL. ASIO4ALL ver 2.14 works with Win98FE, despite the authors claim otherwise. But this install does have updated files.

It is just as well, that the VxD driver is DX emulated, I've never used Steinbergs DXASIO. I have no idea if it would have shortened audio latency enough.

I'll probably investigate, to see if I can repair my current installs USB issue (knowledge gained).

But I may have to bring the back-up install up-to-date. It isn't the worst task, since it is a basic USB memory image. All applications are installed portable (off image).

So, AC97 "WDM" drivers may be problematic. This is the second chip that has caused issues, with DX audio plugins. Perhaps I am lucky the "VxD" driver is emulated; else it might have caused issues too. Who knows?

I've been thinking about looking into PCMCIA cards. But if I got too serious, I'd just be using a Desktop.

Thank you, I am glad for the communities input.

Edited May 29, 2023 by awkduck

[pangoomis]

ALC6xx? That is HD Audio, no drivers for Win9x (apart from the clunky Win3.1 driver with low quality sound and system hangs)

As you're using 98 FE, please do note that WDM implementation in FE is not really that good, WDM was properly introduced/fixed in 98 SE/ME.

Pretty much all OEMs recommend using VxD drivers for 95/98 FE and WDM drivers for 98 SE/ME, that's for a reason!

What is the model of your USB Audio Card? It should install natively as a "USB Audio Device" using WDMA_USB.INF file.

Edited May 29, 2023 by MrMateczko

[awkduck]

2 hours ago, MrMateczko said:

As you're using 98 FE, please do note that WDM implementation in FE is not really that good, WDM was properly introduced/fixed in 98 SE/ME.

The USB device is a Behringer Xenyx Q502USB. But I've also been testing with some generic USB audio device.

This issue is resolved.

I use WDM on 98FE pretty often. I've read the Microsoft documentation, on the limitations. But I do have to wonder if having updated files allows extra functionality. The author of ASIO4ALL says his software (ver 2.14) will not work with Win98FE. However, it works fine for me. ASIO4ALL will only work with WDM. Either he has misunderstood the state of WDM drivers, in Win98FE, or some O.S. updates and/or 3rd Party add-on allow me to use it, when I shouldn't be able to.

I'm not doing anything professional/commercial. This is for artistic entertainment. I am now able to use Guitar Rig 2, with 10ms of latency (Steinberg DXASIO); less with ASIO4ALL. Guitar Rig 2 is also not meant to run on Win9x. I've ran these programs, with Linux Wine, for years. But I am squeezing more out of the machine, running with Win98.

I also have way less latency, with my MIDI devices (Win98). I have a MIDI sound module with an extended audio bank and a MIDI keyboard. Using my old Cakewalk is far more "enjoyable" then the modern software. And 98 does a much better job of staying out of the way. But Linux wasn't too bad, in this instance.

There is equipment compatible, with Win98, that would allow me higher sample rates and bits. But the 16bit/48000kHz limit is plenty for me. Sounds no worse then the digital compact discs, I grew up with. If I needed better, I'd go back to using the same software/hardware on Linux Wine. Or use Win98 on a desktop with quality audio card.

But, to the meat of the USB issue....

It came down to the state of the USB port itself. When I tested an earlier backed up version, of my install, everything worked fine (USB audio). But that install was still on a physical SDHC2IDE device. So booting happened over IDE. A little comparison, between the two installs, showed nothing obviously different.

This machine normally runs with no harddrive in it. It boots from USB, and loads a drive image (Win98FE) to memory. All of the programs, besides some essential utilities, are saved as portable apps on the USB device. An issue I originally had, was that Windows would boot and Hang. This was fixed by using Grub2 and loading Grub2's booting drivers. This worked great, until now (USB audio). The temporary fix, is not using Grub2's booting drivers. Then when Windows boots to the Dos prompt, as I do with every install, I disconnect the USB storage device. Then loading Windows does not hang, and I can reinsert the USB storage device. After this point, USB audio works just as it should.

This machine has had plenty of strange issues, with USB. I don't have any of these problems, with a Wyse Cx0. I bring a little pain on myself, by running with a USB booted Live Windows. But for me, the benefits are worth it.

For now, I will have two boot menu entries. One with Grub2 booting drivers, and one without. The only time I really need the low audio latency, is with live audio recording. It will be a pain removing and reinserting the USB storage device, every time I boot with the intent to do live audio. But I can live with it for now. If I find a better fix, I will post it. But I don't know how much I'll look into it. This gets me going.

I did learn that the WDM drivers, for AC97, have problems other WDM drivers do not. But it only seems DirectX related. Using the USB WDM driver does not have issues with DX9 at all. No crashes with applications using DX audio plugins. Other sound cards, with WDM drivers, have also worked fine. And I wonder if other AC97 chips would be okay. I've only had the DirectX issue with the two I've worked with.

Anyway, thank you for coming with aid and advice :)

[awkduck]

Applications crashing, at load time (searching for DX plugins) using WDM AC97 audio drivers, has been solved.

As an example, in FL Studio 5 and Sonar2.2XL, a work around is to have the application's .exe run in XP compatibility mode (KernelEx). But the option "Don't use these settings in child processes" must be checked. If you do not select that option (XP compatibility only) your audio device will available in the application, but the device will not have functioning input or output.

I should mention again, that this issue existed without the presence of KernelEx, on the system. It was not the cause of issue, but part of the solution.

Edited September 17, 2023 by awkduck