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Comparison of Non KernelEx Web Browsers


ScrewUpgrading

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I was wondering what your thoughts are about these different browsers for Windows 98/Me. As far as I can tell, they are the absolute final versions to work on unmodified versions of Windows 9x.

Netscape 9.0.0.6 Feb 2008

Firefox 2.0.0.20 Dec 2008

K-Meleon 1.5.4 March 2010

Seamonkey 1.1.19 March 2010

Opera 10.63 (requires Microsoft Installer 2.0) Oct. 2010

Internet Explorer 6 2000/2001 ?

Green Browser ?

Avant Browser 4?

Maxton Browser 3 ?

I was surprised that a few these browsers still work good, while others have aged badly.

For example, Firefox 2.0.0.20 still seems quite stable, especially with flashblock (1.5.14 or older) installed. I'm using this right now, and it loaded this forum nicely without any noticeable glitches or delays. Once the page is loaded, the screen moves up and down smoothly. It's not perfect, but it ain't bad either. Still quite usable and I like it. Those guys at Mozilla did a good job on this one. I'd say this is still a viable browser for anybody using Windows 9x.

Opera 10.63 still works great. It's the best browser I have for rendering pages. The turbo option is pretty useful for dial-up users like myself. It runs smooth and there aren't any glitches or delays. As Darth Vader would say, "impressive."

K-Meleon.

I don't know why, but this browser works like CRAP. Considering it was released two years later than Firefox, it works a lot worse. It seems to be the most inconsistent browser out of the bunch. It either loads normally, or else it has tons of problems loading scripts, ads, and other things that cause it to freeze. It seemed to work fine when it was released, but it's quality has diminished greatly in the last year. Used to be my default browser, but it's too annoying and temperamental now. I tried clearing the cache, increasing the cache size, enabling/disabling flashblock and adblock, reinstalling windows, but it still works terrible no matter what I do.

Not only that, but It seems to have a problem with managing it's cache. It doesn't seem to work right with over 65 MB for cache. It never filled up to the limit I set for it (100MB). It worked better when it was set around 50 MB. This was the only program I found that had this problem. Poor K-Meleon. The best thing about it now is the cute little icon.

Netscape 9.0.0.6.

Similar to K-Meleon. Tons of "Script is Not Responding" errors, pages take forever to load, etc. Ebay, myspace, and many other websites don't render correctly. Overall I'm suprised it still works as good as it does, considering it's almost 4 years old. I would use this over K-Meleon if I had to. But they're both finished in my opinion. Using them is like torture. They were good in their day, but now they suck.

SeaMonkey 1.1.19

The BEST gecko browser for dial-up, period!

It's faster than Firefox 3.6.21 and SeaMonkey 2 using Kernel ex (On dial-up, that is). Overall, it's very similar quality wise to Firefox. Perhaps SeaMonkey has less script errors (not that many to begin with), and from a security standpoint it is two years "newer" than Firefox. But you can hardly tell.

Unfortunately It's still limited by its gecko 1.8.1 engine, so it's not going to render perfectly either way. But for dial-up it's great.

Internet Explorer 6

I knew I was going to be reformatting my hard drive one night, so I decided to use IE6 for the heck of it. Well, it's pretty much on par with K-Meleon. (That is, it's Terrible). Also, it was 5 times slower than anything else I tried. I can't believe millions of people still use this thing. How?

Avant Browser, Green Browser, Maxton, etc.

These are just shells for Internet Explorer 6. I'm not sure whether there's any security enhancements or not. Which is the only way I'd ever consider using these dumb things.

In conclusion...

Seamonkey 1.1.19

Firefox 2.0.0.20

Opera 10.63

are still relatively very good.

K-Meleon 1.5.4

Netscape 9.0.0.6

IE 6

...are terrible. Avoid if you can.

Edited by ScrewUpgrading
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Glad you brought this topic up ... browsers and Windows 98. Just a few weeks ago I was searching around for any newer browsers that would still work OK in 2011 with Windows 98SE. Didn't have much luck and got busy with other projects. I read your list of browsers and will try a few of them ... been wanting to try Firefox 2.0.0.20 and Seamonkey 1.1.19 ... have had them downloaded for some time. At present I still use and like K-Meleon 1.5.4 ... I occasionally run into a "scripts" downloading problem ... always at Fox News and once in awhile with a few other web pages, but not very often. It's my main browser and also K-Meleon 1.6 Beta 2. I'm on KM 1.6 Beta 2 now as I type this reply. The newer version can be used on Windows 98SE with KernelEx installed. Might be worth a try, the "scripts" thing seems to be less of a problem with that version, at least for me. I fire it up every so often but mostly use KM 1.5.4 ... probably should use the 1.6 version more often, also a very fast browser.

Well, hope some interesting replies come along. I will try the Firefox and Seamonkey browsers.

... just a quick note, they have a good forum over at K-Meleon and lots of people like to offer help and solutions to any problems with K-Meleon. I also use "The Proxomitron" with Windows 98SE with the Sidki filter set ... sometimes (not often) at a certain web page I will have to put it on "Bypass" but I mostly use it as is.

... Since I posted this message, I have been running K-Meleon v1.6 Beta 2 ... with version 1.5.4 I always get a "scripts" download problem window popping up at Fox News, nothing with v1.6 Beta 2. I thought that was the case before but I wanted to try that web site again and a few other sites. I really never remember any web sites having a scripts download problem except there was just one and it was an odd site, if I remember ... not one I regularly visit. Once you get all the settings the way you want (in both versions) things seem to go pretty smooth. I will run the 1.6 Beta on a daily basis from now on, a real joy to run on the internet.

...

Edited by duffy98
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SeaMonkey has long been my favorite. I've used it since its early days as the Mozilla Suite. Kernel EX has allowed me to install 2.0.14, but in many ways I still prefer 1.1.19. It starts faster and just seems faster on the web. There's also several extensions I use with it that won't work in the 2.X versions for which I haven't found acceptable substitutes. For now, I use both versions, one for casual use and the other via Tor. The only disadvantage is that I can't use both at the same time. IMO, SeaMonkey has always been one of the best.

I've never liked the appearance or feel of FireFox so I can't comment on the performance of any of its versions. Haven't used Opera. Don't have any version of Internet Explorer on this OS. My XP system has IE8, primarily because it's required by a game I play way too much.

K-Meleon is a distant 2nd choice for me. Most of the time it's reasonably fast, but each version has its problems. I've had better results with the portable versions unzipped to folders than the installed versions. All of the versions have one common problem, at least on my system. On a forum like this, the small symbols that show when a thread has new posts or if you've posted in them, all of them disappear if I use the "privacy>block advertisement" option. Version 1.5.4 stalls badly on sites with scripts. The 1.6 beta version is slightly better. The 1.7a2 version (available via their forum) seems much better in this regard. The download is a 7z archive. I can't comment if it works without Kernel EX. On my system with the 1.6 and 1.7 versions, the privacy bar displays no text to show what each button is for. Version 1.5.4 did. This might be related to my removing IE from my system. IMO, the 1.5 and 1.6 versions have too many problems, but the 1.7 alpha version has potential and is worth a look.

Most of the time I run all browsers through Proxomitron. At present I'm altering much of this arrangement and my Proxomitron filters so that all connections to certain sites (like Google) are routed through Proxomitron and Tor, regardless of the browser being used.

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Thanks Rick for bringing that to my attention concerning K-Meleon ... I also have better luck with the portable versions ... the install version never seems to be quite right. I also like the portable version since it can put very fast onto another computer or OS once all the settings are the way you want. I use the same KM folder on Windows 98SE, Windows 2000 Pro and XP ... makes for a quick setup ... just be sure to run Clear Read Only or something similar to clear the "read only" check marks out of the KM folder if you had it burned to a CD or the "Profile" folder won't update right ... if the folder is stored on a flash drive it doesn't seem to matter. I'm going to try SeaMonkey 1.1.19 later this weekend ... sounds OK to me for another backup browser. Just to add, I have had no luck with any of the KM 1.7 versions and really don't like them so far.

...

Edited by duffy98
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For me, the 1.7a2 version has been a pleasant surprise. Much more responsive than the 1.5 and 1.6 versions. While SeaMonkey will remain my default browser, K-Meleon will come in handy on those occasions when I want a 2nd browser for quick, direct connections while my default browser connects through Tor. As much as I like it, I've been trying to avoid using the 1.X versions of SeaMonkey and get used to the changes in 2.0.14. Unless KEX development resumes, that will probably be the last good version of SeaMonkey for 98 with KEX.

When so many of the 9X systems here have so much in common, the unofficial upgrades and file versions for instance, I've often wondered just what factors make the performance of an app vary so widely. There's definitely a lot more involved than file versions, RAM, processor speed, and other installed apps. It would be interesting to compare the systems being used when apps (especially newer ones that need KEX) performs well on one of them but not the other, and see if there is a pattern. I don't have the equipment, skill or the time to investigate it properly, but I'm suspecting that the type of processor (P2, P3, P4) and the chipset versions has a lot to do with it.

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I have to correct myself about KM v1.7 ... I now think I have never tried any 1.7 version. The KM versions that I have tried and didn't care are by a person named Fred ... a lot of people seem to like his "unofficial" versions but they seem to mess things up in my computer and I would have to get offline and reboot ... at least with some of the earlier versions in 2011. His latest is: New unofficial version : KM-16-F3621. I was looking around for the 1.7a2 version that you are using ... I finally located the download ... wasn't aware of that version so I am going to give it a try. I will also get SeaMonkey 2.0.14 and see how it works on my computer. Yes, I also wonder why certain browsers work better on one Win 98 machine over another one. For instance, I can install the portable KM v1.5.4 on 98SE, 2000 Pro and XP ... KM works good on all three systems ... for my Dell notebook I have 2 hard drive caddies ... one with Win 98SE (FAT32) and the other hard drive is NTFS so I can either put Win 2000 Pro or XP on it. As I said, the KM v1.5.4 works great on any system but KM v1.6 Beta 2 will not work on Windows 2000 Pro ... things freeze up and I have to reboot but it seems to work OK (if I remember) on XP. Thanks for the heads up on the KM v1.7a2 version ... definitely want to try it out. You say it has potential for the future, hope the development continues.

...

Edited by duffy98
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I'm pretty sure that SeaMonkey 2.0.14 needs KernelEX to work on 98. One complaint I've had on it is that it can't set itself as the default browser. I had to set it manually and it keeps asking.

Regarding K-Meleon, I downloaded it straight from sourceforge.

Link to 1.7a2

I'm not familiar with the unofficial versions you mention. Where are they at?

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OK, I just finished downloading KM 1.7a2 ... will work with it later or tomorrow. I will experiment with both SeaMonkey versions and see how they work on my machine. Those "unofficial" KM versions by Fred are in the General topic at the KM Forum. He just published a new version on Sept 1st ... KM-16-F3621. If you decide to try it out, I'd be interested in knowing how it works on your machine.

KM Forum:

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/

General Topic: Latest "unofficial" version about 6 or 7 items down.

http://kmeleon.sourceforge.net/forum/list.php?1

...

Edited by duffy98
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Concerning K-Meleon 1.6 and newer, I was never able to get them to work on my Windows Me computer with KEX.

I did install them on my Windows 2000 Professional computer and they worked fine, but since I don't like Windows 2000, I barely ever use them :-(

I plan on sticking with Windows 9x as long as possible :)

I'm going to look into these "Fred" versions of K-Meleon you mentioned... they sound interesting.

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Firefox 2.0.0.20 and K-Melon 1.5.4, both using the Gecko engine, render web pages essentially the same (K-Melon's engine is slightly more recent, but makes little difference). K-Melon is a little faster, but both will run into the same rendering problems with many websites, and both have the same non-responsive scripts problem.

Opera 10.10 is by far the fastest browser I have used, rendering web pages much quicker and does not heavily load the processor. It also doesn't have the scripts issue.

Despite that, Firefox is still my primary browser due to the add-ons that I depend upon, and the way I have everything intertwined around it. Otherwise, Opera would have been my browser of choice. Even though certain web site sites do not render correctly, some of them can still be navigated. I still use Firefox on Ebay. Opera is relegated to my fall back browser for web sites with rendering issues, scripting problems, and those that are just plain slow. Internet Explorer 6 is my final fall back for when Firefox and Opera still doesn't cut it. I use all three of them every day. Sometimes, I find myself with all three running at the same time.

It won't be long until the web passes by these frozen browsers, so we may have to use KernelEX to take one more step forward. The current frozen status of KernelEX doesn't look too good though.

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ScrewUpgrading ... I have KM 1.7a2 running as I type this ... so far it seems to be working OK on Win 98SE ... also have KM 1.6 working good on Win 98SE ... strange that KM 1.6 doesn't work well for you. Have you gone over to the KM forum for some assistance or ideas? I got help there getting v1.6 to run on 98SE. I also intend to stay with 98SE ... only have 2000 Pro or XP for a couple of programs that won't run on 98SE even with KernelEx. I would like your opinion of the "Fred" K-Meleon version ... had tried some of his versions early in the year and they seem to be very different over the regular KM but as I said earlier, people seem to like his work. May have to try this latest version myself, don't know much about his work, probably needs KernelEx but not sure. I'm pretty satisfied with all three KM versions (1.5.4, 1.6, 1.7), they aren't 100% but they are close.

Foxbat ... I will try Opera 10.10 and see how it works on my machine. Yes, I also have IE 6 still on my computer but I never use it very much ... just have it there in case it would be needed. Since herbalist mentioned KM 1.7a2 earlier, of which I wasn't aware ... got the download and have it running ... want to test it out better next week on some fast Wi-Fi. Looks good so far, still have some settings to work with. I also hope KernelEx is not dead but things change, sad to say. The whole program was and is a great idea for the 9x crowd.

...

Edited by duffy98
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Avant Browser, Green Browser, Maxton, etc.

These are just shells for Internet Explorer 6. I'm not sure whether there's any security enhancements or not. Which is the only way I'd ever consider using these dumb things.

Maxthon 3, like Safari and Chrome, is now primarily a Webkit browser. Older versions of Maxthon are needed to work on Windows 98.

The best browser I found, using the Internet Explorer 6 engine, is SlimBrowser, available here:

http://www.slimbrowser.net/release/sbsetup_501_win9x.exe

or here:

http://www.slimbrowser.net/en/dlpage.php

Maxthon, Avant, SlimBrowser, and other browsers using the IE engine, are no more secure than the version of Internet Explorer used, which for Windows 98SE/ME is IE6. The latest "unofficial" security updates for IE6 are from 2010 available here:

http://www.mdgx.com/spx/MDIE6CU.EXE

or from here (7-24-2010 Update of MDIE6CU):

http://www.mdgx.com/upd98me.php

Older versions of Firefox and SeaMonkey are not secure browsers. For more secure browsing, use IE, Maxthon, Avant, or SlimBrowser after updating IE with MDIE6CU. Or better use Opera 10.63. Or best, use later versions of Firefox, SeaMonkey, or Opera with Kernelex.

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The last internal build of Firefox 2x was 2.0.0.22pre, dated 04-15-09. I don't know if there's any significant difference between it and 2.0.0.20, likely it just has whatever changes were implimented in Seamonkey at the time up to 04-15-09.

Edited by the xt guy
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herbalist ... have a question for you from your earlier post. You mention using the program Tor with SeaMonkey ... "while my default browser connects through Tor" ... could you go into a little detail of what version you are using, with Win 98SE I assume. I have heard of Tor years ago but never really checked it out. The only version I can find listed to work with Win 98SE is the Expert Bundle at the TorProject website:

Expert Bundle

Windows 7, Vista, XP, 2000, 2003 Server, ME, and Windows 98SE

Contains just Tor and nothing else. You'll need to configure Tor and all of your applications manually.

... is there an older stand alone version for Win 98SE maybe already configured to work with this OS? Any drawbacks to using Tor or do you highly recommend using it with a browser? Is it complicated to set up?

Might as well cover all this and anything related to browsers in 2011 ... unless you feel this should be a separate topic, if it's really involved. ... thanks

...

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I updated to the current stable Vidalia bundle just a couple days ago. The Vidalia bundle includes Tor, Vidalia, Polipo, and the Torbutton. Since I don't use Firefox, the Torbutton wasn't installed. I did install Polipo but am not currently using it. Vidalia requires KernelEx to work. Tor itself works with 98. I haven't really used it but I'm pretty sure that Polipo does too. Polipo serves 2 purposes in the bundle:

1, Content filtering

2, Connecting to Tor via the Socks protocol.

I use Proxomitron and Sockscap instead of Polipo, primarily because I prefer Proxomitron as a content filtering app. Since Proxomitron doesn't "speak" Socks, SocksCap handles the conversion to the Socks protocol. There is a substantial amount of configuring to do if you don't opt for the complete browser bundle. A good rule based firewall that does control local/loopback connections properly should be considered a necessity in order to prevent data leaks.

Any drawbacks to using Tor or do you highly recommend using it with a browser?

Browsing through Tor is quite a bit slower than connecting directly. It's primary purpose is to make it very difficult to identify you or track your internet activities. It helps to defeat surveillance and censorship. If these things are important to you and how you use the internet, then I highly recommend it. If your internet usage is more casual and you don't need to conceal your activities or identity, then Tor is unnecessary.

Most KernelEx equipped PCs should run the Vidalia bundle just fine as a client. If you opt to run Tor as a relay, exit node, or bridge, it will increase the demand on your system and internet service substantially.

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