What is the story with Windows-98 and PCI-e video cards?

[98 Guy]

My Asrock motherboard has both AGP and PCIe slots, but I've never gotten any Nvidia PCIe boards to work on it.

My device manager is showing a "pci to pcie bridge" that seems to be ok, so what other issue could be preventing a pcie board from working?

What combination of motherboard and pcie video card is known to work properly under win-98?

[xrayer]

I'm using nvidia GF6600GT PCI-E on Asus P5LD2 (i945/ICH7R) with 775 LGA C2D. I use unofficial FW 82.69 drivers and it works well except shutdown problem (described also by other users here). I'd like to use some newer PCI-E 7xxx/8xxx gfx but seems nobody tried it. Here you can find INF for intel 9xx chipset: http://windows98.ic.cz Also winth nUSB 3.0 I have working USB 2.0

EDIT: I successfully tested that GeForce 7300GT and 7600GT PCI-E are running well with unoff. drivers 82.69. I currently own Asus EN7600GS Silent PCI-E 256MB DDR2

Edited September 24, 2007 by xrayer

[matthiaspaul]

I'm (mostly) successfully using an ATI All-in-Wonder X800XL PCIe DVB-T/PAL 256MB (article code 100-714502) graphics card with Radeon R430 GPU @ 400MHz in a Commell P4LA Rev. D BIOS 2.1 industrial mainboard with Intel 945G/ICH7R chipset and Intel Core2D E6600 SL9S8 2.4GHz CPU under Windows 98 SE.

Partially citing from my yesterday's post: http://www.msfn.org/board/Modern_motherboa...st&p=695463

Since no Windows 98 SE drivers exist for the Intel GMA 950 shared memory onboard graphics (or at least I could not find any drivers supporting more than standard VGA 640x480x16 resolution), I installed this ATI graphics card into the board's PCIe 16x slot.

This ATI graphics card was announced in 2005-07 and released ca. 2005-10. Apparently, it was withdrawn from the market in spring or summer 2006 and is quite difficult to source today - used or new. No AGP, and no 128 MB or 512 MB variants of this card exists. However, there is an US-variant with NTSC (instead of PAL), but without DVB-T support. I think, this video card is one of the latest ATI cards, for which Windows 98 SE drivers are still available:

Catalyst 6.2 as of 2006-02-09.

http://ati.amd.com/support/drivers/de/98me...onaiw-98me.html (the date on the ATI web-site is wrong)

This driver suite officially supports only the Radeon 9800, 9700, 9600, 9500, 9200, 9100, 9000, 8500, 7500, 7200, 7000 and Xpress 200 series (incl. All-in-Wonder variants of them). However, it also provides beta support for the Radeon X850, X800, X600, X550 and X300 series (but not for the All-in-Wonder-variants of them).

Trying to install these drivers, the automatic installation will detect an "incompatible card", but if you install the drivers manually, it is still possible to install the drivers.

- Graphics Cards:

-- Radeon X800 Series driver: 2006-02-03, ATI2DRAG.DRV/ATI2VXAG.VXD, ATI Tech. - Enhanced, 4.15.1.9165

-- Radeon X800 Series driver (secondary): 2006-02-03, ATI2DRAG.DRV+ATI2VXAG.VXD, ATI Tech. - Enhanced, 4.15.1.9165

- Audio, Video and Game Controllers:

-- ATI WDM Rage Theater Video, 2004-04-14, ATIRVXX.SYS, ATI Technologies Inc, 6.14.10.6240

-- ATI WDM Teletext Decoder, 2004-04-14, ATIVTTXX.SYS, ATI Technologies Inc, 6.14.10.6240

-- ATI WDM TV Audio Crossbar, 2005-04-14, ATIVXSXX.SYS, ATI Technologies Inc, 6.14.10.6240

-- ! ATI WDM TV Tuner, 2004-04-14, ATIVTUXX.SYS, ATI Technologies Inc, 6.14.10.6240

- Universal Serial Bus Controllers:

-- ATI Remote Wonder Controller, 2003-12-29, ATIRWVD.SYS, Jungo, 6.03 (from ATI Remote Wonder 3.04 driver package)

-- ! ATI RemoteWonder Plus, 2005-03-02, X10UFX2.SYS, X10 Wireless Technology Inc, 3.0.0.180 (from ATI Remote Wonder 3.04 package)

I can use the video card in all resolutions, with dual monitor support and as 3D graphics card. Hydravision works. DirectX 9.0c is installed.

So far, I was not able to get the TV and radio tuner running under Windows 98 SE. And the driver for the Remote Wonder Plus remote control causes a non-fatal protection fault at startup. Any ideas on the reasons? Anyway, while it would be nice to get them running as well, I do count this as bonus, as I can use these features under the other OSes on the same machine - I just needed a relatively decent graphics card still working under Windows 98 SE and not limiting me too much under the other OSes.

Greetings,

Matthias

PS. The mainboard is one of the very few modern boards still featuring an ISA slot. I plan to also insert an old "HGC" Hercules monochrom graphics card in order to have multi monitor support under plain DOS - for software development and debugging. So far, I have not tested, if this particular ATI card will peacefully coexist with a HGC card - well, it should, as this is part of the IBM PC specs, but some recent cards won't free the video segment B000-B7FF.

Edited September 23, 2007 by matthiaspaul

[xrayer]

PS. The mainboard is one of the very few modern boards still featuring an ISA slot.

Hey dude, this board is so exciting new for me!

I have been watching ISA mobos for latest years

http://www.volny.cz/rayer/hardware/mbisa.htm

but when I need to upgrade I couldn't find any MB supporting Core2 duo and ISA together (there was some 945 board but w/o C2D support). So I gave it up and bought common cheap Asus MB P5LD2 without ISA but with additional PATA133 controller. Your mobo looks nice. But issue for me is that buying such mobo in CZ country is nearly impossible, there probably isn't any distributor I know only about distributor of Advantech mobos and they are priced 4-times than others for general PC.

[matthiaspaul]

but when I need to upgrade I couldn't find any MB supporting Core2 duo and ISA together (there was some 945 board but w/o C2D support). [...] Your mobo looks nice. But issue for me is that buying such mobo in CZ country is nearly impossible, there probably isn't any distributor

I don't know a Commell distributor in the Czech Republic, but the German Commell distributor Spectra has offices in Austria and Switzerland as well, and they sell the Commell P4LA revision D mainboard.

http://www.spectra.de/kontakt.cfm

Spectra also lists alot of other industrial boards (in all kinds of form factors) with ISA slots, some of them also supporting Core 2 Duo processors. However, the listed specs are not always up to date, so check with the manufacturers. Actually, I first learnt about Commell's plans to release a P4LA revision with C2D support, when I contacted Commell earlier this year in order to discuss our company's special hardware requirements with them and they told me what they were just about to release. Even their own website didn't reflect C2D support at this time. ;-)

http://www.commell.com.tw/Product/SBC/P4LA.HTM

Hope it helps,

Matthias

[98 Guy]

I'm using nvidia GF6600GT PCI-E on Asus P5LD2 (i945/ICH7R) ...

Where did you get drivers for ICH7R ???

[xrayer]

Where did you get drivers for ICH7R ???

It's unofficial INF set by Peter made of latest 915 for 9x and newer for XP. Currently I don't use any SATA drives so I can't check if it works in native mode. I use PATA drives attached to additional ITE8211 ATA133 onboard controller. But you can try it. See our unofficial 98se site:

http://windows98.ic.cz

it's intelinf.zip file

Edited September 26, 2007 by xrayer

[xrayer]

Spectra also lists alot of other industrial boards (in all kinds of form factors) with ISA slots, some of them also supporting Core 2 Duo processors. However, the listed specs are not always up to date, so check with the manufacturers.

Thx,

I already browsed Commell's site and found Spectra distributor. Do they sell to other countries? Hm, it may significantly increase price by postage and duty . Maybe I should make a trip to DE/AU

Actually, I first learnt about Commell's plans to release a P4LA revision with C2D support, when I contacted Commell earlier this year in order to discuss our company's special hardware requirements with them and they told me what they were just about to release.

I upgraded before 11 months and there simply was not any C2D+ISA capable board. Now I can see there's even some newer with 965 but this sucks because missing native IDE.

Even their own website didn't reflect C2D support at this time. ;-)

No, I can clearly see "P4LA - Intel® CoreTM 2 Duo Desktop industrial ATX Motherboard"

[matthiaspaul]

I already browsed Commell's site and found Spectra distributor. Do they sell to other countries? Hm, it may significantly increase price by postage and duty . Maybe I should make a trip to DE/AU

Why don't you phone them up or send them an e-mail and ask? Or ask Commell, if they have a Czech distributor. ;-)

I upgraded before 11 months and there simply was not any C2D+ISA capable board. Now I can see there's even some newer with 965 but this sucks because missing native IDE.

Yes, the P4BWA is even more impressive, but I assume, it will be almost impossible to get working DOS or Windows 98 SE drivers for the 965 chipset.

No, I can clearly see "P4LA - Intel® CoreTM 2 Duo Desktop industrial ATX Motherboard"

Yes, but ca. 6 months ago, when the P4LA Revision D (2.1) with Core 2 Duo support was released, the web site still didn't mention it for quite a time. Older revisions of the board did not support the Core 2 Duo.

Greetings,

Matthias

[xrayer]

Hi Mathias,

I finally got this mobo from Commell yesterday. They sent it to me directly by EMS for quite good price in USD (220+50).

I tried it very quickly but seems to have problem with soundcard in ISA slot.

Did you managed to run any soundcard and games in DOS with sound?

I have ESS1868 and SB AWE64 ISA to try. This soundard worked very well in DOS on my previous PIII mobos.

SB drivers was initialized properly, assigning 220/5/1/5 resources as usual but any DOS program cannot play sound.

It didn't find the soundcard or when it find it hanged when would started to play. Does I miss some important option in

SETUP or is the ISA crippled in hardware/BIOS to not be true ISA but some cheap PCI emulation? Does it support

ISA PnP devices? Soundcard was not listed during boot-up like other PCI devices.

And under win98, can you play DOS games with sound?

[MDGx]

Hi Mathias,

I finally got this mobo from Commell yesterday. They sent it to me directly by EMS for quite good price in USD (220+50).

I tried it very quickly but seems to have problem with soundcard in ISA slot.

Did you managed to run any soundcard and games in DOS with sound?

I have ESS1868 and SB AWE64 ISA to try. This soundard worked very well in DOS on my previous PIII mobos.

SB drivers was initialized properly, assigning 220/5/1/5 resources as usual but any DOS program cannot play sound.

It didn't find the soundcard or when it find it hanged when would started to play. Does I miss some important option in

SETUP or is the ISA crippled in hardware/BIOS to not be true ISA but some cheap PCI emulation? Does it support

ISA PnP devices? Soundcard was not listed during boot-up like other PCI devices.

And under win98, can you play DOS games with sound?

Yes.

I use an AWE64 Gold ISA Sound Blaster card which works perfect in native MS-DOS and under DOS sessions/boxes [within Windows].

The only things I need are these AUTOEXEC.BAT lines [+ these AWE64 tools]:

SET PATH=%PATH%;C:\AWE64;

C:\AWE64\CTCM.EXE /B

C:\AWE64\AWEUTIL.COM /S /EM:GM /R:0 /C:0

C:\AWE64\MIXERSET.EXE /P /Q

SET CTCM=C:\AWE64

SET SOUND=C:\AWE64

SET BLASTER=A220 I5 D1 H5 P330 E620 T6

SET MIDI=SYNTH:1 MAP:E MODE:0

None of these drivers/TSRs occupy any memory, they just initialize the audio card and then quit.

I use an Audigy 2 Platinum for Windows [98 SE].

FYI:

How to use Audigy 2 in native MS-DOS:

Unofficial Sound Blaster Audigy2 series audio cards native MS-DOS mode Patch for MS-DOS 6/7/8 + Windows 95/98/ME:

http://mpxplay.sourceforge.net/#loclinks

Direct download [2.29 MB, free]:

http://www.mbudde.de/mp3player/files/emu10dos.zip

TIP:

1. Disable AWE64 Windows drivers from installing or detecting your AWE64/AWE32/SB16 sound card completely by deleting this file:

%windir%\INF\SB16AWE.INF

in case you are using another sound card for Windows [like I do].

2. Also, if not using any ISA devices, or if not using them in Windows [like I do], you can replace the ISAPNP.VXD file with a 0 bytes file with the same name.

ISAPNP.VXD located in %windir%\SYSTEM .

Reboot after this replacing this file.

HTH

[xrayer]

I use an AWE64 Gold ISA Sound Blaster card which works perfect in native MS-DOS and under DOS sessions/boxes [within Windows].

But on what hardware? I also didn't have problems to run SB or other ISA soundcards under DOS/9x on various PII/PIII systems with intel BX440 PCI/ISA mobos. But this is a P4 board with new chipset and some kind of PCI/ISA bridge chip and I'm not sure if it is compatible.

[xrayer]

I must give a warning for everybody: according to this intel's document it's clear that since ICH6 ISA DMA is not supported by chipset and then any ISA souncard will not play sound in DOS games, etc. under DOS or Windows 9x. Unfortunately I find this too late...