Phaenius

Speakers don't distort, I am not that dumb to raise volume beyond reasonable acceptance. Also, the sound is so bad and lacking any consistence, I am using all the EQ I can get to get a decent one. Sadly, I think there is something damaged in the card, but I would love to know what before putting to RIP. I would also love to know what caused this in the first place, to avoid happening again. I will clean the board when I'll have the time (and courage to lift the case), but I am not hoping for much improvement (if any). But I would like to thank everyone for advice once again.

As an update, I start noticing occasional clicks when playing music. Could this be direct current escaping filtering, or a problem with capacitors in general ? I understood capacitors are widely used as filters in audio equipment.

Hair dryers have easy to pull filters. They do not weight 25 kg, like a desktop computer. As for console or tv, opening the case will void warranty. If anyone manages to open the case of my computer monitor (Philips 220CW), I'll give him the Nobel prize. I tried many times without success. No screws, nothing. And by the way, I had a tv with tubes, it worked for 30 years. It had so much dust inside, you couldn't even see the tubes. But it worked. And the tubes were hot of course. My computer is not having problems. My sound card is having problems. A tone def ear won't even notice. Apart from that, everything is working fine.

I find the sound comforting. There are a symphony of fans and motors (around 15 in total). But they are quite quiet, they are set to auto, now in winter, they don't spin fast.

Well, although well intentioned, the fault lies with you in my case. My computer air flow is obstructed at the back by a large bedside, so most of the air inside computer is from one side. Not to mention the airflow is heavily obstructed by clogged fan filters. There are 5 case fans inside my computer, each with dust filter. Those filters are full of dirt, tough to reach, due to tight space. But I measured the temps inside, with and without case. With all the filters clean and computer undusted, but door on it has pretty much the same temperatures with computer full of dust, but without door. But you're right, a clean computer is a happy computer. Although, extrapolating, every electronic device suffer from the same dust. What shall we do ? Open our tv, cd players, phones, hair dryers, washing mashines, game consoles, toys and so on and clean them all ?

Test with my ears ? So far, I found no acceptable settings. I suspect some damage. jaclaz made me worried with his capacitors plague. I read the links. Temperatures inside my computer are not that high. I counter the dust on components (thus heat accumulation) with the lack of case door. If I would keep computer clean, but with door closed, temperatures would have been the same (if not higher).

What to do, I can't replace each one of them. Do you think the board in defective because of the capacitors ? How much do they last on average ?

I put pictures of the card and manual with diagrams in this post, you can download them. Again, link to manual is here http://www.datafilehost.com/download-22f946f2.html This is a standard card. I know it's more common from an electronics or audio specialist to output via line out (something around 0.7 - 1.0 V, with high impedance), but in not state-of-the-art sound cards, it's common the same jack to share the same output, both headphones and line out. Heck, they do this on an even more outrageous sharing, microphone and line in.

They are the same. One green 3.5 mm jack, standard to all computer audio cards. But I am not using much, because I use the coaxial output. The active speakers have a built in input selector. But I wanted (and omitted in my previous post) to ask you, with all the multitude of volume settings, how should I set the volume on each component ? I have volume on music player (in this case Winamp), on sound card (two in fact, for general output and headphones output) and on both active speakers and receiver (depending of what am I using).

And I thought real men have rough beards and systems. Also, washing isn't a good idea all the time: (1:43)

You people have a fixation with cleaning. I'm starting to wonder if you aren't selling some sort of cleaning products...

LOL. That's one long power cord.

I'm not expert or anything, but doesn't the power supply have a saying in all this ? I see it wasn't even mentioned.

Now, you're making fun of me, and I change my status to: submix8c, so, I understand I am doing something wrong. But what ?. Because I don't get it. How should I set the mixers and the cables between the components ? As far as I know, all sound cards have the same connectors, you call el-cheapo. I made a scheme, sorry for my drawing capabilities. http://oi50.tinypic.com/2a8res9.jpg Can you please tell me exactly what and how to set everything according to you ? Here is my sound card manual http://www.datafilehost.com/download-22f946f2.html I can also have the receiver and active speakers manuals, but I don't know if there are of much importance.

Thanks everyone. As I am approaching fast New Year, I don't have time to reply now, but I will reply tomorrow. In short, my equipment is not a professional one, but a standard one, so advanced engineering shouldn't apply. However, for a regular user, it should sound at a respectable level and at the moment it doesn't. I very much believe the active speakers are at fault. They are manifesting the clipping (modulating, limiting, "capping", whatever). However, the "metallic" sound and all sorts of harmonic distortions I think are from the sound card. I wonder if the problem is in the digital and/or analogue section (so hardware), or software. As for cleaning, it does make sense. Each imperfect contact induces resistance. However, I didn't thought to such a big extend. I mean, I had many cards before and not one suffered from that. I even unbugged 2 hard drives that were affected by BSY state bug (jaclaz knows, I drove him crazy with my nagging), and you won't believe the bad shape of the contacts between electronic board and the head and motor contacts. I wonder how on earth it works. But it does. With all the oxidation and scratching. I thought with low currents, imperfect contacts shouldn't be so big of a deal. But I will clean the card and the contacts, see how it goes. Happy New Year !

I did read the linked post, but as I immediately replied, I don't know some of the terms and steps, so that I asked for clarification.

Thanks for answering. First of all, as I asked in my previous post, Is there a name for the modulation I described in the previous post ? I want to check more on the internet about the phenomena. I am sure, in my case (the amplified speakers at least, it doesn't manifest on receiver + passive speakers), it's too much and the speakers have a fault (defective at birth or a flaw in the design). I thought frequencies stay flat (or at least to inaudible levels) at all range, regardless of how rich the sound is (simple samples, frequencies or a lot of channels of all levels, mixed together). That is one problem. The second one is the distorting (the ssss-es became sshhhh-es - again, I don't know the term) and the third one it seems sound is losing a certain warmness, I mean it sounds kinda metallic. The last two problems I am sure are sound card related. I am aware I am making a big deal out of it and in the end I must replace the sound card, but all I wanted to know if that there is something wrong inside my computer that damages the cards and / or am I setting something wrong that also damages the cards. I am afraid a new sound card will manifest (more or less) the same symptoms after not so long and I don't want to waste money, on a limited budget. I am not a sound expert, I mean, not on a technical side, I do graduated a college somehow related, but haven't practiced on the field. But I like to believe I have a native good ear that recognizes what sound should be. I mean, I can spot anomalies of all kinds, even though I can't describe them technically. That's why I asked. Something is definitely wrong and don't know if inside the card or the amplified speakers. To protect the receiver, I stopped using it, to prevent potential damage, if something is wrong with the audio card output. You said about cleaning the card. I am not contesting, but I don't know what exactly to clean. The contacts between the two cards (audio and motherboard) and from the card and front panel ? Or every electronic part (resistor, condenser, chip, etc.) ? This would be a titanic work. And I don't get it what dirt can do from the outside, other that parts accumulating heat. Even then, heat and humidity are within limits inside my computer. I had more cards inside computers I had since 1996 when I had my first PC and so far, cards worked fine, no dusting, cleaning or anything. But again, I won't dispute the theory, it's just I believe it works on higher levels, not a mere and regular computer user, where we don't talk about high precision. About the last part, I don't get it. From the comments, it seems you believe I did something wrong, but I don't understand from your post, where. I am leaving Winamp EQ flat and preamp at 0 dB and only after that, I am boosting high and low frequencies from the sound card output. Active speakers don't have bass and treble knobs, so I must set the EQ from the sound card. Is this wrong ? What do you mean I might LOOPED anything ? What exactly is this ? You are using many technical terms I don't understand. I am not an expert and my equipment is not a professional one. It does have all sort of settings and it's not the cheapest, but although expensive in it's own range, it's still a common equipment, not a professional one, not designed to have that many tweaks and desiring a lot of engineering knowledge, to sound acceptably good. But, as it is now, it's far from good. Can you please elaborate, when you have the time on the terms you described above, where do you believe I go wrong, if, by the symptoms I described, do you think it's something wrong with my card, phones or speakers and if so, how can I test it, using minimal equipment, preferably self testing software (that checks for anomalies) ? Also, I am not using phones output to my active speakers. My active speakers are connected via digital coaxial cable on the sound card. Again, many thanks and Happy New Year!

I think I have a better describe of the problem I related as "capping", maybe sound engineers or experts can tell me the exact term I'm confronting with. If I am playing let's say a 1 KHz signal at 0 dB, everything it's ok. If on top of that signal, I play another signal of lower frequency, say 100 Hz, both sounds should be played clear and distinct. But the 1 KHz sound it's modulating after the 100 Hz. I mean, if a singer it's playing vocal only, it's ok, when heavy rhythmic starts, his voice is modulated after the instruments, while it shouldn't. So, in the first example, if the 1 KHz signal is constant and the 100 Hz is pulsating, the end result is the 1 KHz signal will pulsate as well, because of the modulating after the second one. Can you please describe the situation and what exactly seems to be the problem ? It's a digital or analogue one ? It's a power problem ? Second question is what is the term describing lack of clarity, similar to old tape players, when head was out of sync with the tape and high frequencies were distorted. I mean, "sssss-es" sound like "sshh-es". Thanks and Happy New Year everyone !

You shouldn't normally need to. Normally the data should be already there after the command and reboot. No need for an additional action.

OK, I coupled the headphones on the back output. It sounds actually worse. It sounds like sound is coming from a bucket. So, at the front sound is a bit better. Couldn't couple the output at the back to a digital amplifier, because I don't have a 3.5 jack to RCA adapter, not to mention the low space at the back. I might need a short 50 ohm cable. Even so, I can only couple the coaxial at the back, optical is only on the front panel. I don't think front panel is to blame really. But, looking in my boxes of cables and connectors, I did found a twisted 80 pin HDD cable, with all the pins free. It has thick copper wires and it can be connected via a screw and washer to computer metallic case. So, this must be the mother of all adapters from the card to the front panel. So, at least I could manage the isolation of radio frequencies, sadly not the distortions and poor quality of sound.

Soldering makes sense (in which case there isn't much I can do), but I refuse (will all my stubbornness) to accept that dust may do any harm in this case. Anyway, as it is, computer is in a very tight space and it's quite heavy (heavy case, 4 HDDs, 4 DVD-writers, heavy sinks, power supply and other stuff inside), will give me a hernia to lift it, so I keep the operating inside at minimum. Sure, if situation asks, I will do it, but wanted to rule out other situations prior to that. Heck, space is so tight, I don't have room to attach anything at the back and have used the front panel so far. But I will do a trying tomorrow, with an extension cable. Will also try to output the digital sound from the back as well. So far, I've been using the front panel for that as well. I wanted to test the sound card from an electronic point of view (software tests that measures all kind of parameters), that's what I've been trying to say all this time. From an analogue point of view, my ears say it's wrong. But my ears sense harmonic distortions, clipping and a flat and broken sound in general, can't tell exactly what is wrong. I don't know how blowing the dust will make the contacts any better. Oxidation yes, that's a problem, but I can't do anything if that's the case. I wanted to know if I inflicted some damage to my sound card, due to listening or other equipment inside PC. Heck, I had a Creative Audigy ZS prior to this card, I've been using it for more than 4 years and it worked like day one. Don't know what's wrong with this. Jumper, can you please rephrase your points from your latest post ? Thanks. If any other fails, I will accept defeat and buy another card. I have already wasted a lot of your time already. I only hope it will last longer.

So far, every storage system can fail. Even Johnny Mnemonic's brain.

Yes, but you're a good "translator" Anyhow, I don't believe dust can affect a sound card. It's mostly affecting moving parts or non-moving parts by overheating. But it's not the case. In our case (or rather in mine), sound card has low power consumption, it doesn't overheat, it doesn't have moving parts, it's made mostly on integrated chips (presumably well soldered), resistors and capacitors, air tight and also well soldered. Radio frequency inside computer can distort sound (in which case shame on Creative for not thinking of), but I don't think it's the case, since it worked before.

I don't see how dust and dirt can damage the sound. Electrons travel inside the components, not on the surface. This isn't a matter of joke. This isn't a joint, to vax, oil, undust and something like it. It's a solid state component, nothing to do with dust and dirt. I'm sure it's not even susceptible to static electricity. What about the point-by-point advice ? Can you please explain ?

Sadly, I didn't understand a thing. First of all, what do you mean by washing the card ? Surely, must be some sort of slang, but don't know what, Secondly, point by point: 1. How do I monitor exactly the audio signal with a monophonic powered speaker ? What do you mean by battery - ? What type of battery shall it be ? What do you mean by two probes for inputs. I'm sorry, but the whole point 1 makes no sense to me. Can you please rephrase ? What exactly shall I connect ? 3. This again I don't get. What shall sound the same at both channel jacks ? What jacks ? But I am sure both channels gets equally distorted, it's not a one channel problem. Furthermore, card has 8 channels, better, it has 10, 8 at the back and 2 (independent from what I read) at the front. 4. What DAC ? How can I probe ? What to connect ? So again, can you please tell me what to connect and what to follow, point by point ? Can you please insert a "jaclaz converter" between us two ? He seems to have a very clear way of explaining. Again, thanks.