JorgeA

Being minimalist, I personally find the blackbox shell (and other interfaces) approach, the most convenient: righ click anywhere on the desktop and a cascading menu appears. jaclaz Huh, that would be pretty cool, actually. --JorgeA

Looks rather unrefined, but I'm sure it'll serve its purpose. Maybe Samsung can hire the good folks at ClassicShell to put together a sleeker-looking Start Menu. --JorgeA

The solution (which even lawyers might be able to understand) could be for Samsung to place a start button at the left end of the taskbar, instead of a dock in the center. (Of course, there's no solution to a hypothetical patent that covered any icons anywhere on the screen.) Oh, and lest MS lawyers then get their own swing at Samsung, it could be named "Home" (rather than "Start"). I hereby waive all copyright to the idea... Glad to learn that Samsung sees what the Microsoft Steves won't. --JorgeA

Yes, I already experienced the SmartScreen Filter's features when it warned me about installing the Skip Metro Suite on the Windows 8 RP. OTOH, maybe (just maybe) that's one type of application that I'd want MS to know that people are installing... Speaking of security/privacy issues -- we've touched a couple of times in this thread on the subject of "cloud computing." As we know, Win8 is the most cloud-oriented Microsoft OS yet. Here's a cautionary tale about linking and syncing and putting up too much of our stuff in cyberspace. --JorgeA

Wow jaclaz, this is magnificent! Youve given me a lot to chew on here, and that's good. Now I'll go and start digesting all the links you provided. Grazie mille! --JorgeA

[etc.] Well, what can I say -- I do trust your opinion better than the BlackArmor Backup manual, which has left me scratching my head numerous times. And I've also been around computers long enough to know that what the manual says, ain't always so. It's been said that I took out of context your original statement that ...except that the statement was a.) not qualified by anything, and moreover b.) quite emphatic about its statement. When a person says "never" -- and twice -- I take it that they mean to say "never" (as in, under no circumstances). Can't get any clearer than that. How was I supposed to know you meant "never in these particular circumstances" -- and no, when it comes to software, I've been burned enough times to cure me of the habit of assuming. Oh, and as far as the high quality of the work by those Acronis folks -- their software crashes (fails to make a backup) as often as not. And I have given up completely on their function for scheduled backups, which fails MORE often than not. Their software is fussy and its output unpredictable, therefore I cannot be certain as to its reliability. And their vaunted manual has been ZERO help in explaining the source/cause of the software's failures, ergo I put little stock in what the manual has to say. I am less than impressed. The BlackArmor Backup software is so bad that I uninstalled it this month. (See why I'm so eager to inquire about the reliability of backup software?) In its place I installed the Seagate DiscWizard, which appears to be a less ambitious package. We shall see whether it actually works any more reliably. With that as my background, when I read a trusted expert write that, "You NEVER, and I mean NEVER image a disk/volume that is in use (unless you use Shadow Copy services)," I hope you will come to understand why I posed my original question. I'm dubious about my software to begin with, and then I read a statement like yours that seems to fit the conditions under which it operates (= running while the disk is in use). So excuse me for asking for help from someone I've come to trust, on a topic (1) that I don't know much about, (2) for which extensive reading has not clarified my doubts, and (3) in which my limited experience has taught me to question the trustworthiness of backup software. That's exactly the reason that I started this thread -- because, given my experiences with backup software, I wanted to delve deeper into the topic. As I see it, the "average Joe" would happily image/backup/whatever his disks, and then find out when his HDD crashes and he really needs the backup, that it failed due to the sort of obscure technical reason that you appeared to be alluding to. I simply wanted to learn more about this. --JorgeA P.S. Recommendations for reliable imaging software are welcome, from any source.

As jaclaz pointed out, we've seen something like these articles already. I find the news disturbing, too. I'd thought that SmartScreen either used some kind of heuristic approach and/or relied on a downloaded list to check against. Never occurred to me that it might be getting back to Microsoft with what I'm downloading. And it's even more disturbing to find out that this may have been going on all along, ever since SmartScreen was introduced. I'm not sure how effective it is at stopping malware, anyway. Every download that I've been warned about, it was Norton Security that warned me, not SmartScreen. The main value I've had for it, is as a second opinion to what Norton reports. --JorgeA

This is getting ridiculous. Who first devised the tablet form factor, or the concept of a touch screen? Sure wasn't Apple. Maybe whoever did can sink their legal fangs into Apple, just as Apple is doing to most everybody else. --JorgeA

Very funny, the spoiler captures all the cliches in one neat package. Now as for pure dazzling beauty (yes, in the eye of THIS beholder), behold this. --JorgeA

In this corner, I'm already looking at a Linux-flavored future. That horizon just got a lot clearer when I discovered that I can run Windows programs in that environment with PlayOnLinux. First trials with Office 2007 worked great! The windows themselves are a facsimile of the classic Win98/Win2000 look. --JorgeA

Very important points! I'd pointed out before that Windows 8 makes it harder to follow complicated instructions (troubleshooting, installations, etc.) that involve opening the Start Menu and then clicking something in it, because the Metro Start Screen that replaced the Start Menu takes over the whole monitor, covering up the next several steps you need to follow. But what you point out has potentially vastly more serious consequences. Thanks for bringing this to attention. --JorgeA

Rumor is (I'm starting it here ) that when the Desktop is retired and Windows goes all-Metro, the four panes in the symbol will be cut down to two. One bigger pane and one smaller pane about 1/4 the size. --JorgeA

That's pretty disturbing. None of their d*mn busines what programs I install on my own PC. I did get one of those error screens the other day when I was trying to install the Metro Skip Suite. I figured that SmartSreen Filter was checking some sort of built-in list of known/approved applications (in the same model as a virus definition list). Never occurred to me that it might actually be "phoning home." For me, that's yet another nail in the coffin for Windows 8. That link was a nice find, BTW. --JorgeA

Obviously aimed at the Fanboy Central audience that CharlotteTheHarlot identified... BTW, loved that spoiler image. --JorgeA

More evidence of "Apple envy" by Microsoft!! --JorgeA

You tried it? What was it like? (I have a little experience with traditional Paint.) --JorgeA

VERY funny, jaclaz!! --JorgeA

Woody Leonhard weighs in with his definitive review of Windows 8: In light of the controversy in another thread as to whether MS has in fact been removing the ability to bring back the Start Menu and Start Button, I'd be curious to know what Leonhard has in mind, in the middle of that first paragraph. But the rest is pure gold. The conclusion: In a more recent article, Leonhard assesses in more depth the prospects for Windows RT: And in the "has he really thought this through?" category, here's an impression from Gordon Mah Ung, deputy editor of Maximum PC (October 2012 issue): Gordon, just wait 'til you've tried writing articles and replying to e-mails (let alone playing PC games) all day at arm's length on those 30-inch screens... --JorgeA

Groundbreaking originality from Redmond! They better hope Disney doesn't see this. And if they do notice the possible 'look and feel' issue Microsoft had better hope their lawyers do a better job than they did with the Metro fiasco. Amazing -- nothing new under the sun here, conceptually. Maybe the novel part is that, with the touch interface, now you can dip your fingers in digital paint and slosh it around. Great, and now we can get treated to a Dumpsterful of trash painting in our inboxes and Facebook pages, just like so many of us foisted our musical genius on friends and family when inexpensive electronic keyboards first came out in the '80s. (I plead guilty to this sonic crime.) Even the MS lawyer must have thought it was idiotic, as nothing ever came out of it. Worth a shot, I guess... --JorgeA

Did you skip IE9? Its the same as that, the right-click is the way. In fact all other browsers I have (Firefox, Palemoon, Chrome) don't have an arrow and use the right-click option to go back history. Tripredacus, Yup, I'm still on IE8. I decided to pass on IE9 when I saw that there was no functional status bar (I rely on the real-time, visible info it provides as I surf the Web). ClassicShell has a feature bringing some of those functions back, but not all. (I'm using it in IE10, which is only on my various Win8 previews and not on any of my work machines.) Plus, I don't like the look of the Back and Forward buttons or the overall design. So I'll be using IE8 till it stops working. My wife tried IE9 for even less time than I did. Her reaction was immediate and strong. After installing it and launching it for the first time, about five seconds later she asked, "Ewww -- how do I get rid of this sh*t?" I've never understood the appeal of moving controls around from one version to the next -- what's the point? It's like having the next year's car models shuffle the location of the gearshift, the radio button, and the headlight and windshield wiper controls. Just leave 'em alone already, for Pete's sake: use your developing skills to come up with actual improvements, not things that make users spend time re-learning where everything is. --JorgeA P.S. Apropos of the practice of making changes seemingly for the heck of it, check this out.

Well Classic Shell has now been updated last Saturday. The new version now also has the option to disable the charms bar in Windows 8. So now,not only can you boot to the desktop but you can also disable the charms bar. I still have not installed Windows 8 RTM. But I am told that Classic Shell works in Windows 8 RTM. Start 8 is a waste of time because as I said before it does nothing. All it does is provide a link to the Metro start menu. Start 8 will not give you a Windows start menu. And that's not what I and most people want. And you can bring up the Metro start menu by clicking on the charms bar. Or by turning off Classic Shell and clicking the left hand corner. You don't need Start 8 for that. And Start 8 is NOT made by the same people who make Start Menu 7. I have used Start Menu 7. And that also gives you the start button and a customized Windows 7 start menu. Andrea Borman. Make sure not to confuse "Start Button 8" with "Start8." Start8 is from Stardock, while Start Button 8 is by the developer of Start Menu 7, Denys Nazarenko (check out the "Windows 8 Start Button" link near the top right on that page). I agree with you about Start8: it's just a miniature version of the Metro screen -- and "all things Metro" is one of the things I'd like to stay away from! About the only advantage of Start8 over the Metro screen is that it doesn't take over the whole monitor, so that you can open it and still follow complicated instructions in a window elsewhere on the screen. --JorgeA

Another article critical of Windows 8, again from a surprising source -- one of the founders of Neowin.net. And gaming master Gabe Newell renews his assault on Win8. One (further) annoyance I discovered today. In Internet Explorer 8, there is a tiny down-arrow in the upper left corner, just to the right of the Forward button. I have found this to be increasingly a major timesaver, as websites cram ever more ads into their pages and you have to hit the Back button a dozen or more times to get back to the actual last page you saw on the screen. By hitting that little arrow, you can skip back nine of these at a time. Well, there seems to be no such arrow in IE10, so you can't skip several pages (or ads) in one step. Whatever time you might save by IE10's faster graphics processing or whatever, is amply made up by the need to keep hitting the Back button repeatedly to get back to where you were. ...After some experimenting, I discovered that I can do the skip thing by right-clicking on the Back button, but how many people will know that or think of doing it? I don't get the point of removing the visibility of functional elements and leaving no hint of their existence. Then again, that's the UI design fashion now, isn't it? --JorgeA

There is a new alternative Start Button out there: Start Button 8. You get several different buttons and looks to pick from, and as a bonus it provides a nifty revived Start Menu. (From the folks who brought us Start Menu 7.)

xpclient, That's a GREAT idea! I can't wait to try it. I imagine that it's possible to combine Skip Metro Suite with Classic Shell, or Start Menu X. --JorgeA EDIT: IE10's SmartScreen Filter tried to discourage me from running the Skip Metro Suite, saying it was an "unsupported app," but clicking on more info gave me the chance to "run anyway." It worked. Stayed on the Metro screen for a couple of seconds and then I was in the Win8 RP Desktop. The settings didn't work perfectly: Checking the box for disabling the Charms only, did not do that -- I was still getting the d*mned thing if the mouse cursor reached the top right corner and I happened to move it down along the edge. But checking the box for disabling all of the hot corners did work. B) Oh, and it does work in conjunction with Start Menu X.

There is a discussion, in a suprising venue, of a method for booting into the Desktop in Windows 8 (RTM?). Has anybody tried this, and does it work as advertised? The YouTube video on the second page is tantalizing! --JorgeA