JorgeA

Thanks, Andre! Sorry, my German is limited. We should ignore the .ZIP file in Post #7 of that thread, right? Danke! --JorgeA

Paul Thurrott discusses Microsoft's plans to transition from a sales to a feudal rent model for their software: So, what happens when a new feature or bug fix ends up breaking something, or making things worse? Without knowledge of an impending update or the choice to postpone or decline it, all users are saddled with the problem for as long as MS takes to address it. No longer can you or I adopt the strategy of waiting for reports on the update's effects from others who have installed it. --JorgeA

Thanks to the mods for making this a sticky, that way I don't have to "bump" it every so often. --JorgeA

Italy ... Lumia 920 :: €599 (USA $771) Lumia 820 :: €499 (USA $643) Samsung Galaxy S III :: €530 [etc.] Unfreakingbelievable!! Never mind that these Windows 8 phones are considerably more expensive than their established competitors (yeah, Sinofsky's a visionary genius, I know). I just can't see myself walking around town with a $700 device in my pocket that cost more than any computer I've bought in this millennium, and which would be so easy to lose at a restaurant table or to a skilled pickpocket. Can I tether it to my belt? But I'd still be running the risk of dropping it or having it crushed by stepping or sitting on it. No way, I don't have money to burn. --JorgeA

ROFL, that would serve the fanboys right! Almost makes me want to join the Neowin forum just to do this! Anybody up for some trolling? --JorgeA

In other news -- I'm no networking expert, but I ported a copy of the Axence NetTools to my Win8 RP to see if I could track down that permanent connection to MS that was reported in another forum, and I didn't find anything. Unless I had a browser open, there didn't appear to be anything continuously going outbound from the system. Maybe someone else knows how to hunt for hidden Internet connections, but I didn't find anything objectionable. That's good. Still, and to quote another relevant motto, "eternal vigilance is the price of liberty." --JorgeA

I was wrong . LOL, jaclaz! Given the level of litigiousness that Big Computing has reached, how long do you think before: MS lawyers start demanding that people stop using "bing" as a verb, so as not to water down their precious trademark? They'll put a quick stop to that little "binging" trend you discovered up there... MS lawyers start demanding a cut of the proceeds from Bingo games? --JorgeA

With the coming general release of Windows 8, there will be a flood of new Win8 users asking, "What happened to the Start Button? How do I get to the Start Menu? What is this ugly screen full of gaudy squares?" Early Windows 8 adopters and experimenters have already created a variety of ways to resurrect the Start Button and Menu and to minimize contact with the Metro/Modern/??? interface so that users can work with the latest Microsoft operating system -- yet in an environment that they find more congenial, logical, and/or esthetically pleasing. We can expect these kinds of alternatives to grow as the number of Windows 8 users inevitably increases with the replacement of old PCs with new store-bought systems. This thread is intended to serve as a "one-stop shopping" location for such choices so that you can try them out and see what works best for you. I have prepared an initial list based on my research so far. Please post new ones that you're aware of or happen to run into in your Web travels, and I'll add them to the "master" list as we go along, so that people looking for alternatives don't have to wade through multiple pages of postings. I propose five rules to guide this thread, which I ask the moderators to assist me in applying (especially #3): The listing must be a method (script, Registry tweak, etc.) or application that serves to recreate the Start Menu and/or the Start Button, and/or which enables the user to disable, bypass, or minimize exposure to the Metro Start Screen at bootup or thereafter.The procedure or application must be legal.Discussion of the relative merits of the Start Screen vs. the Start Menu is out of place here. There are other threads in this forum for that purpose.The procedure or application should be reported to work in the Windows 8 Release Preview at a minimum, and preferably in the RTM and retail versions of Windows 8.Proposed new listings should be accompanied by 1) a link to a Web page where readers can get the information necessary to make it work, or 2) a description of the method, complete enough to enable readers to put it into practice.Please report dead links on this list so that we can clean it up. If you find methods or applications that simply copy or duplicate the way another listed method/application works, let us know. And let us know if you discover that a given method/application doesn't work, contains (or is) malware, or breaks something on your system. I have not personally tested all of these alternatives. Before using any of them, check to see if it's designed to work on your system's "bitness" (32- or 64-bit). USE THESE METHODS AND APPLICATIONS AT YOUR OWN RISK. One more note: with the release of Windows 8.1, some users will switch to that newest OS, and some of these Start Menu replacements may not work. Items on this list that have been reported or verified to work in 8.1 (or to have versions that work in 8.1) will have "8.1" added at the end for quick identification. With all that in mind, here's the list. 8StartButton (in free and paid versions) Anvi OneStart gives the user the choice of a Wndows 7-style or Metro-style Start Menu. Aston Menu (widget support; reported to work in Win8; trialware) Boot directly to desktop Boot to Desktop for Windows 8 and Start for Windows 8, both by tech author Steve Sinchak, can work together for a complete button+menu solution (although the menu is Metro-based) Bypass Modern UI boots natively to the Desktop without pausing on the Start Screen Classic Shell. Free. 8.1 Classic Shell skin featuring Windows 7-look Start Menu Classic Start 8. Free. Classic Start Button (with customizable Menu; paid) ExtremeTech has published a method using the Task Scheduler to automatically bypass the Metro screen and go to the Desktop upon boot Hack Windows 8 Metro Handy Start Menu (customizable; menu + button only) How to boot to the desktop in Windows 8 HP Quick Start -- a major PC maker gets in the act of reviving the Start Menu Pokki Menu (boot straight to the Desktop and disable the hot corners; but see this post for important information). Free. 8.1 Power8 with flyout "All Programs" menus. Free. 8.1 RetroUI Pro now with a classic-look Start Menu including rounded corners, bypass the Metro Start Screen, also provides a Start Button and a taskbar for the Metro screen and allows for running Windows Store apps in a Desktop window. $4.95, free to Facebook users. 8.1 Skip Metro Suite WinAero (publisher of the Skip Metro Suite, above) has published a tweak to bypass the Metro screen without the use of third-party tools Spesoft Windows 8 Start Menu Start 4 Seven (XP-style flyout Start Menu) Start Button 8 (designed to work with Start Menu X) Start Menu 8 (includes booting straight to Desktop). Free. 8.1 Start Menu and Orb Powered by Rainmeter (standalone Rainmeter skin and application; Metro look) Start Menu Reviver features a Metro-inspired menu with space for up to 32 app tiles, and is available in 11 different languages. Free. 8.1 Start Menu X related to Start Menu 7 (page providing additional information) Start8 (boots straight to Desktop; now providing a Windows 7-style Start Menu). $5. 8.1 StartFinity comes in both a free "starter" version and a paid version with more customization options StartForDesktop offers a feature set including search box, pinned applications, All Programs (including Metro) list, and booting to Desktop Tihiy's StartIsBack implements the original Windows 7 Start Menu on Win8; see discussion here on MSFN. $3 (for 2 PCs). 8.1 StartMenuPlus8 features extensive customization choices, including a "Recent Items" button StartOnDesktop bypasses the Windows 8 Start Screen StartW8 (supports booting to Desktop). Free. 8.1 ViStart and ViStart 8. Free. 8.1 Start Buttons (designed to work with ViStart) Viva Start Menu (includes a custom Start Button) W8SM (Windows 8 Start Menu) Wentutu Start Menu (pin frequently used programs to Start Menu; boot directly to Desktop) Win8StartButton (new link; available in English and German) Win8Starter (comes in free and much more customizable paid versions) Win+X Menu Editor (not exactly a Start Menu, but can be used to easily add functionality to the right-click "Power User" menu) Do you have a new method, or found another one on the Web? Post it! Happy computing, --JorgeA

The three are interrelated. To take an example that we'll all (hopefully) be familiar with, in George Orwell's 1984 the protagonist, Winston Smith, lacked both freedom and security because there was no privacy -- all he did and said was monitored, or reported. Now, I'm not saying that Microsoft is (yet) monitoring everything we type and everywhere we go on our computers -- but I am asking what the meaning (if any) might be of what that guy on MDL had discovered. --JorgeA Yes , that is called Science Fiction, it didn't (yet) happen, as well as Minority Report and the pre-crime do not yet exist, nor Blade Runner, and Skynet didn't - seemingly - gain self-awareness on August 29, 1997. (but if - by any chance - your real name is John Connor, you'd better start to run ). jaclaz The example may be from a novel, which I selected for universal understanding, but the point stands that privacy, freedom, and security and all related in the real world. And waiting 'til it happens -- by then it's too late, as my countrymen found out. Too many of them chose "security," and the only thing they guaranteed for themselves is that they would live in perpetual privation. As well as not free to undertake anything on their own, and constantly monitored by secret police and block committees. But now we're way, way OT. OOOOT, even. I'd still like to hear from anyone who has some notion as to what (if anything) is going on with that unannounced Windows 8 connection to Microsoft. --JorgeA

I was finishing up Charlotte's post when I paged down to the bottom and saw the following visitor count: --JorgeA

Doesn't exactly allay the concern (expressed in this thread) that MS is heading towards a locked-down computing environment. Hmm, maybe this news is the reason that the Intel CEO's private remarks about Windows 8 just happened to get disclosed. "You ditch us, we'll badmouth you." --JorgeA

That certainly cannot be ruled it considering the mystery of the Fixing Windows 8 Blog. I would love to know if they got to him. No amount of googling seems to turn up anything. Doubtful that Bing'ng would be any better. To follow up based on my 1984 exchange with jaclaz, we might say that Mike Bibik (the "Fixing Windows 8" guy) and the Chinese PCBeta guy have learned to love Big Brother Microsoft, and their deeds will soon go down the Memory Hole... Since nobody seems to know what's going on with it, maybe I'll add to my Hosts file the Microsoft address that I reported on, and see if anything untoward happens. --JorgeA

I am error: Yeah, clearly his English (or else his writing in any language) isn't very good. But I did look around my Win8 RP's shutdown options, and didn't find hibernation. On my Vista Start Menu it's the button that looks like a power button. However, with Start Menu X installed, I can put the Win8 system in hibernation right off the shutdown menu. --JorgeA

The three are interrelated. To take an example that we'll all (hopefully) be familiar with, in George Orwell's 1984 the protagonist, Winston Smith, lacked both freedom and security because there was no privacy -- all he did and said was monitored, or reported. Now, I'm not saying that Microsoft is (yet) monitoring everything we type and everywhere we go on our computers -- but I am asking what the meaning (if any) might be of what that guy on MDL had discovered. --JorgeA

It's not what we can see, trace and measure that concerns me; as I'm sure Microsoft already has some well composed 'plays nice' legal boiler plate about how this is just anonymous information collected for security and 'making your product experience better'. What worries me is what we don't see, that doesn't show up via Windows Performance Counters because it's totally obfuscated by design the Windows network stack -- and the only indication we'll have that anything is going on is something will show up in WireShark (if that)... However annoying you may find him personally, Richard Stallman seems to be hitting on all cylinders with respect to closed source hegemonic OS publisher/developer with big government contracts and the ultimate outcome this has with respect to privacy, security and freedom... Thanks hoak, I'll have to look up this Richard Stallman guy. The name sounds vaguely familiar. --JorgeA

Do you think that Windows 7 Activation is profoundly different form that? jaclaz Umm, I haven't the slightest idea -- that's why I'm asking! How about a straight answer. If Windows 7 Activation maintains a constant tether to a MS server somewhere, then I suppose the answer would be that it's not profoundly different. But don't know whether Win7 does that. Do you, and if you do -- does it? --JorgeA

Another small way in which Windows 8 is inferior to Windows 7 and Vista: shutdown dialog lacks the option to put the computer in hibernation. One more thing that you can do from the much-maligned Start Menu, that is not possible with that cool, fantastic, fabulous Metro Start Screen. --JorgeA

Joseph_sw, That's one of the things I'm concerned about. The more kownledgeable a user I become (if I may say so myself ), the greater value that I find in things such as multibooting -- which may or may not be possible in future Windows-on-ARM systems. If I can't multiboot from two OS's on the hard disk, can I still boot off an optical disc or USB thumb drive? Part of my increased knowledge also involves the use of live CDs to scan computers for malware that can't be found from inside Windows. (Just last week I found three adwares on my wife's computer by using a live CD.) But if I can ONLY boot to the Microsoft-approved, preinstalled OS, then this becomes impossible. As would using a live rescue CD to repair Windows or salvage data from a sick PC. --JorgeA

Well obviously not today but the theory is sound; ARM architecture can scale just fine to meet high-power computing requirements, and some software Developer/Publishers might like the idea of a 'reboot' on a new platform, with DRM and a walled garden that works and offers at least the promise of more profitability. However when you factor in that it will be Microsoft's DRM, Microsoft's walled garden, and Microsoft's dysfunctional Metro/Modern/NCI (where did NCI come from?) interface -- it's difficult to understand how any Developer/Publisher without a twenty year contract with Microsoft could find this any more appealing then any rational Consumer that's functioning above the neck... Bad news, hoak -- while researching something else, I came across this bit of information. There's also this. Unless the Windows 8 hardware certification requirements have changed since that was written, it looks like our hypothetical switch over from Intel to ARM systems on our desks would mean the end of multibooting with other OS's. Yet another way in which Microsoft with Windows 8 is restricting user choice. EDIT: It's conceivable that ARM PCs might be enabled at the factory to boot other OS's (maybe), but here is some more background on the issue: --JorgeA

That's great, I love it!!! --JorgeA

You may note be that far off the mark. The article that I linked to above, cites a newspaper interview with Ballmer, where he says Other tidbits from that interview: And: Ballmer's fundamental mistake. As we have noted a number of times in this thread, a PC is not a tablet, and a tablet is not a PC. --JorgeA

Wow, a modestly priced game console that you can maintain yourself -- what a great idea! And the "crowdfunding" model is itself intriguing. Thanks for the links. --JorgeA

There's the design concept for The Next Big Thing in mobile computing!! --JorgeA

Hmm, I wonder what happened in my case. Do you kinow if there is any way to recover the Update History? Thanks, the fix came in via Windows Updates last night. If I hadn't extracted an old version of DataStore.epd back to its folder, my PC would still be "checking" endlessly for it! --JorgeA

It just gets harder and harder to understand how Microsoft expects Windows RT (and Win8) tablets to succeed in the marketplace. Are they expecting hordes of Microsoft fanatics to line up on October 25, credit cards in hand, for their RT's at the three dozen or so Microsoft Stores on the planet? --JorgeA