JorgeA

Whoa, the discussion in the comments to the first article ranged far and wide, from heath care to fluoride in the public water. But actually, based on the article Google's terms for this prototype sound more or less reasonable. They're having people try the glasses out in the field, and the selected testers shouldn't be handing them off to third parties, let alone to possible competitors. OTOH, if these restrictive terms make it to the final commercial version, that's a different story. Not to mention the possibilities for monitoring/tracking individual people that the device represents. --JorgeA

Thanks, Formfiller. Here's a remarkable exchange between Leo, Mary Jo, and Paul. Starts around 24:10. Leo and Mary Jo are not Metro fans, but Leo's view is especially caustic: Then they go on to an interesting discussion about Microsoft's "telemetry," also worth listening to. But you're right -- this is only part of the cake. It's like someone grabbing your wallet, your phone, and your keys, and then offering to give back your phone and keys when you object. --JorgeA

That is fantastic news!! Here's the key passage: (emphasis added)And Paul Thurrott seems to have done yet another 180 on the Windows 8 interface: This may also allay concerns about Microsoft pushing the Windows Store in users' faces: if people will now be able to use the Start Button (but will it call up the Start Menu?) and boot directly to the Desktop, it's hard to see how the Metro side and its app store can remain as obnoxious as they've been. But all in all, it's good to hear that someone in charge at Microsoft might actually be listening to flesh-and-blood customers, as opposed to hiding behind a wall of "scientific data." --JorgeA

future prediction year 2020 MS OS division doesn't exist That's a good one! Considering that they're running out of ideas (currently rehashing old concepts by implementing a flat UI with limited tiling in place of infinitely flexible windows), maybe that's the best thing that can happen. --JorgeA

--JorgeA

Welcome to the thread! I'm glad that you found us. "Deeper Impressions" has indeed become something of a "safe haven" for PC users who aren't thrilled with Windows 8 or with the computing trends that the new OS implies. Feel free to fill us in on topics we've touched on, or to add new angles or data points to the discussion. That's a good question, how the folks at MS think people will get actual work done when Metro takes over completely and we're stuck with screens lacking in user controls and visual cues, and a population (information) density rivaling that of the Sahara. It's one reason serious Windows users are keen to nip this Metro thing in the bud: we look beyond the tips of our noses, and realize that waiting 'til the Desktop is eliminated will be too late. Therefore we are not impressed by the argument that "you still have the Desktop" -- we realize full well where things are headed. Very interesting, the tidbit about using "Liveworld" to puff up the apparent degree of support for Windows 8. How'd you discover that? I'm going to predict that some thread participants will be eager to look into it and report on their findings. Anyway, I look forward to your contributions! --JorgeA (the OP )

I spent some time tonight looking into whether it's possible to block advertisements in Metro IE10, which as we know "boasts" a limited feature set. Initial findings are not encouraging: http://superuser.com/questions/496861/how-can-i-block-ads-for-free-in-ie10-both-modern-ui-and-desktop http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=40260341 http://forum.admuncher.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18214&sid=7e686e15543eec1fb4489bd9fa7c8111 This brings up the following question: if (or, more likely, when) Microsoft eliminates the Desktop altogether, it may well become impossible to blot out unwanted ads. Users may need to resort to modifying the Hosts file (assuming that that even remains possible), a tedious and haphazard approach. Does anybody have insight on this? (I nominate @jaclaz as the most likely to find a definitive answer... ) --JorgeA EDIT: clarity

Ah, OK, thanks. Naaah, outdated in the sense that they were old news, the reality (updated) is worse. Just as I feared. Let's hope that some court, anywhere, shows a degree of sanity over this issue. Using the patent system to suppress competition (lower prices, build-on innovation) would seem to make a mockery of the argument that patents exist to make things better. --JorgeA

AND outdated. Fresh news: Microsoft adds Foxconn parent to list of Android patent deal scalps http://www.zdnet.com/microsoft-adds-foxconn-parent-to-list-of-android-patent-deal-scalps-7000014133/ These links don't seem to make the older ones "outdated" in the sense that the idea of MSFT dominating via patent law no longer applies. If anything, the new information confirms the ridiculous situation and shows that things are even worse than before. I'll be happy to be shown that things are better than I'm interpreting them... --JorgeA

When you can "patent" such tiny picayune functions, it shows that the patent system is totally out of control. Wonder if MSFT also has a patent for "flexing index, ring, and pinky fingers while fully extending middle finger." This is ridiculous. The way things work today, could Heny Ford or a comparable early auto engineer have patented "methods" for starting a car engine, steering, applying brakes, opening a door? --JorgeA

Unlike earlier reports of the Start Button coming back, this one is bad news. Adding more and more computer management functions to the Metro side is a clear indication that MSFT is forging ahead with the rumored plans to eliminate the Desktop altogether. Once it is possible to perform every management function in Metro (in however crippled or fully featured a way), from their perspective there will no longer be a need for the Desktop and they can erase it from the Windows code. At that point, not only will we be stuck with that hideous interface, but as @ciHnoN points out, we'll also be stuck with getting all our programs via the Windows Store. :angrym: Unless somebody figures out a way to do sideloading or jailbreak Metro. --JorgeA EDIT: typo

Yeah, some of the Start Button replacements simply take you to the Metro Start Screen (or something that looks a lot like it) when you click on them. But the ones that I used in the preview versions of Windows 8 don't take you to the Metro screen, they work pretty much like the "classic" Start Menu. The best ones even let you disable the hot corners so that they don't annoy and distract the user in the course of getting stuff done. That said, it doesn't seem possible to disable the Metro screen completely and for all purposes; the ability to do that would be the best improvement that Windows 8 could receive. --JorgeA

So is Windows 8 Microsoft's ‘biggest failure ever’? Interesting discussion and video. Here's the original article, and a quote from a commenter: And a comment that @ciHnoN will relate to: --JorgeA

Bah! Bah! Baaah! I'd love to be a fly on the wall listening in on their conferences over this. Your theory is so plausible, and at this point nothing would surprise me. Although, the return of the Start Button would still be welcome news. So long as they didn't keep moving menus and functions from the Desktop side over to the Metro side (as has been reported for some Control Panel functions) in an effort to make the Desktop irrelevant. --JorgeA

I assume you're referring to RT, right? We can still do useful things on "regular" Windows 8. And speaking of the Windows 8 desktop -- yesterday, for the first time at my favorite PC retailer, I saw at least one display model showing the Desktop instead of the epileptic attack-inducing Start Screen. Could have been someone checking it out before me, of course, but OTOH it could be that they're learning that the Start Screen isn't a marketing plus... I haven't asked them because I don't want to get into a discussion of Windows 8, but I've been itching to inquire whether they'd sell me a computer with no OS installed (at an appropriate discount). I'd be surprised if they did, but it would be good to know. --JorgeA

The commenters were pretty incisive (and even the Win8 defenders were civil, mostly). A sample: I was going to post here with something along those same lines, but then they'd already done that. My wife finds those Surface commercials pretty stupid. Last night we were watching "Mad Men" (IIRC) and they showed one of those. She gave out an annoyed grunt and sped up the fast-forward. I almost felt sorry for Microsoft, the ads are so bad. And a good one to sum up the Neowin article --

That was an interesting speculation: That would be a remarkably grudging concession to what from MSFT's viewpoint must be the user's mysterious desire to know what the heck is happening on his own machine -- a tiny, hair's-breadth progress bar. How wide is that, like four pixels? --JorgeA

Additional tidbits on "Windows 8.1" (or "Blue"): More screenshots of Windows 8.1 build 9374 leak online Does Microsoft have a 'Plan B' if Windows 8.1 (Windows Blue) fails? --JorgeA

Additional tidbits on "Windows 8.1" (or "Blue"): More screenshots of Windows 8.1 build 9374 leak online Does Microsoft have a 'Plan B' if Windows 8.1 (Windows Blue) fails? --JorgeA

Here's a couple more links on this "boot to the desktop in Win8" idea: Microsoft to allow users to jump straight to desktop in Windows 8.1? Here's what booting to the desktop in Windows 8.1 might look like --JorgeA

Well, despite my status as a certified Win8 "hater," I'm glad to learn that my tastes are actually in tune with the latest trends in technology... About twenty years ago (the exact timeframe doesn't matter), I remember thinking how it would make a lot of sense to have a single machine that would (1) print documents, (2) photocopy documents, (3) scan documents, and (4) send and receive faxes, and I wondered why nobody was selling anything like that, it would save space in the office and money for all these different pieces of equipment. And then lo and behold, soon thereafter my fantasy came true and manufacturers started coming out with multifunction printers. MS being late to a tech party? So, what else is new?? Humanity is doomed... Man, if people are so lazy that they can't be bothered to spend 1/20th of a calorie to hit the remote, and they would rather while away their limited time on Earth letting the commercials run -- then I have to agree with you: humanity is doomed. --JorgeA

Oh that optimism! Strange editorial though, really really strange at least to me. All he does is give a quick glimpse at a few new Windows 8 devices, and the only thing they have in common is a touchscreen. Yep, that's the extremely low bar that the NeoWhiners have set for themselves and the designers who will save their colored blocks fantasy. Here's how he ends the piece ... Seriously, no! The have touchscreens, nothing more. If anything, the innards are lower spec'd than the expected trajectory we should now be on as we approach 4th generation i7 and other Cores. What these guys at NeoWin and The Verge are doing now is loudly blaming the OEM manufacturers for their own epic fail of pushing a pOS playskool phone operating system as a magic fix for strategic corporate errors. The only new design that I could see myself being remotely interested in, would be a "Dick Tracy"-type watch. As long as I could keep the timekeeping function working while selectively turning on or off the communication (and location-tracking) functions. Because it would remain attached to my body, this would be less prone to getting lost or stolen than today's free-standing smartphones. One less thing to lug about with me or to keep track of, it would just live on my wrist. Of course that wouldn't be a PC, as such, unless you want to factor in miniaturization. Other than that, the PC has developed a number of eminently practical form factors and IMO it's silly to seek salvation in some chimerical "new design." That's not to say that there aren't any "different" designs out there -- the Moneual HTPC in particular is made to blend in with other family-room A/V components -- but rather that they haven't shown themselves to solve anything that many people consider important. --JorgeA

Yep, wouldn't that be convenient for Softies and their sycophants, no consequences for their actions. It is clear that Thurrott has never worked in a real job with NDA's or a morals clause. Getting fired was actually doing him a favor because he now learned a valuable lesson about posting in a high-profile public forum with Microsoft attached to his name. The fact that he proceeded to mouth off while disregarding the "Microsoft" connection showed he couldn't care less about his written and unwritten responsibility to be professional. What is amazing is that Thurrott cannot even vaguely grasp this. Thurrott himself is a menace to Microsoft and he doesn't even know it. I have to shake my head at the depths to which Thurrott is descending. Is there any outrage by Microsoft or its employees that he will simply acknowledge? Here we have a classic "let them eat cake" crack by that now-former employee, and Thurrott takes his side?? I have little doubt but that what Orth said represents how the bulk of MSFT drones think (and no, it's not "fairly innocuous" and it's not simply "tactless"); he just had less sense than most of them and actually said it in public. His superiors probably think much the same way, but at least they still have a feel for the PR angle. --JorgeA

There's a remarkable exchange in the comments section there: A prime example of fanaticism at work! Despite his first paragraph, I'm not positive if it's pure Google hatred or actually a case of half-concealed Microsoft fandom. In any case, it shows what closing one's mind can lead to. Wow. --JorgeA

More news on the control-freak front: Exclusive: Microsoft's next Xbox will take over your TV, interact with your cable box At long last, Microsoft has an Apple-beating vision One fly in the ointment: A strong base it is, but if Microsoft doesn't start showing more loyalty to it, those customers will start staying away in droves. Loyalty is a two-way street. --JorgeA P.S. The article links I found thanks to this post in another forum and, at the end of it, a very pertinent comment on MSFT's strategy: Quote: So you use a power hungry cable set top box with high rental fees and new Xbox just to watch t.v.? I wonder if the same Win8 for desktop group came up with this idea.