Feamane

Thanks for all the info everyone! DJ

Hi, My ASrock 4coredual-sata2 r2.0 died. So I need a replacement motherboard for my XP32 retro gaming rig. It seems the 4coredual-sata is no longer to be found on eBay. I'd like to replace the MB without having to ditch too much of the other hardware. But if I can't find an exact replacement I might as well do a bit of upgrading. 4GB of RAM instead of 2GB would be nice (and I already have the extra DIMMs). And I'm thinking that AGP would really limit my options, so being willing to switch to a PCIe video card might make this much easier. So the requirements... OS: XP32 SP4 Form factor: Full ATX CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E6800 [3330MHz] LGA775 (1066MHz) RAM: 4GB PC2-6400 DDR2-800 Slots: PCIe, >=3xPCI I/O: SATA/300 3Gb/s & EIDE Anybody have any suggestions for motherboards that are known to work well with XP32 and can still be easily found? And what would be a good companion video card (preferably GeForce)? Thanks, DJ

Interesting. I hadn't thought about messing with GPU firmware. I'll have to look into it, how to check current versions, if there is still firmware available for download, how to do it, etc.

I was almost done so I went ahead and finished running 3DMark03 with the same drivers on 98 and XP. And I agree, even with using the same driver versions, at least with the VIA driver it is not installing the same exact driver since there are 98 and XP versions in different folders. For what it's worth, here is the results: 3DMark Coolbits HWiNFO GPU Everest chipset CPU-Z Video OS VIA(GART) FW 2003 AGP Tab OS GPU MHz AGP status Graphic Int. ==================================================================================================================== GF6800 Win98 5.13A(V4.60A) 81.98 7592 N/A 8x@Disabled 324 Disabled greyed out GF6800 XP 5.13A(V4.60A) 81.98 10324 3.0 2x FW=1 8x@8x 324 Enabled 8x AGP 3.0, 8x I've never gotten the Unofficial SP core to install correctly, every time I try the systems hangs on reboot. It could be a problem with one of the updates I slipstreamed into my base install: not many, but a few like RLoew's SATA patch, etc. I wonder if everyone who got good benchmark scores had the U98SESP3 installed? Thanks, DJ

OK, will do. Unfortunately there is nothing in the BIOS to disable the second core. Hyper Threading has been turned off in the BIOS for all the tests including the previous time I installed XP. So ya, I will install XP with one of the same sets of drivers and report the results. Thanks, DJ

No, I don't think it is something new. Please keep in mind that for each test I'm formatting the HDD and reinstalling fresh, so absolutely no worries at all about possible driver version contamination or registry clutter. Thanks, DJ

OK, I have not finished my testing, but I think a trend is emerging. All following tests with 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0, DC E6800(3330MHz), 1GB DDR2-667, DX9.0C, & RLoew SATA Patch: 3DMark Coolbits HWiNFO GPU Everest chipset CPU-Z Video OS VIA(GART) FW 2003 AGP Tab OS GPU MHz AGP status Graphic Int. ==================================================================================================================== GF6800 Win98 4.56v(V4.43) 77.72 6846 3.0 2x FW=0 8x@8x 324 Enabled 8x AGP 3.0, 8x GF6800 Win98 5.09A(V4.50E) 77.72 7438 N/A 8x@Disabled 324 Disabled greyed out GF6800 Win98 4.56v(V4.43) 81.98 6955 3.0 2x FW=0 8x@8x 324 Enabled 8x AGP 3.0, 8x GF6800 Win98 5.09A(V4.50E) 81.98 7594 N/A 8x@Disabled 324 Disabled greyed out GF6800 Win98 5.13A(V4.60A) 81.98 7592 N/A 8x@Disabled 324 Disabled greyed out GF6800 Win98 4.56v(V4.60A) 81.98 7594 N/A 8x@Disabled 324 Disabled greyed out (sorry, no matter what I do the tabs get messed up) Basically, any version of the VIA drivers besides 4.56 do not install, I have to install them manually--and when I do so all the utilities show AGP disabled. BUT, it doesn't seem to matter because the 3DMark03 scores end up being pretty close to each other with the 5.xx VIA drivers scoring higher even through they can't be installed by setup.exe and show no AGP enabled. Asrock provides 5.11A as being the driver for the 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0, but doesn't provide any official driver for Win98. On this forum people have reported successfully using 4.56v, 5.11A, 5.13A, 5.20A and 5.23A. I have tried all these in the past and none but 4.56v will install by setup.exe, the rest have to be installed manually through Device Manager. And it should be pointed out that all these 3DMark03 scores are WAY below what I get with the same exact hardware under XP. So maybe none of these versions of the VIA drivers are installing correctly under Win98? Thanks, DJ

I tried installing it, but it wouldn't install because I don't have the correct hardware. Maybe it is only for Intel chipsets and I have VIA? Thanks, DJ

Are those average speed numbers I'm getting from DiskSpeed32 not good for this rig? If they are good then I don't think that's the problem and I need to focus on other things like the drivers or other parts of Win98. If those numbers are well below average for this setup then that area bears looking into further. Thanks, DJ

I don't see disk transfer scores in the 3DMark03 details, just scores for different parts of the test--but none of them say anything about disk transfer bench-marking. I am I missing something there? According to DiskSpeed32 I am getting about 72MB/s "Avg speed" with the HDD and about 99MB/s "Avg speed" with the SSD. In another thread here people seemed to think that was decent real life performance for SATA1/2 on this older hardware. Thanks, DJ

I got some testing done but still a ways to go, maybe by the end of the week. AFAIK 3DMark03 is single-core only, so the test results should be the same. I don't think the score should be more than double with the same hardware on XP, should it? Thanks, DJ

Hi guys, Yes, of course I saw that. But the strange thing is if I install ForceWare 81.98 or 82.69 instead of 77.72 then the AGP does not show as disabled. And as it shows in the screenshot I posted the AGP driver is working according to Windows device manager. It doesn't seem to matter if I install VIA drivers 4.56v, 5.04A, 5.09A, 5.11A, 5.13A, 5.20A or 5.24A--I have tried ALL of those so far because I have been doing my homework searching this forum for anybody who reported using this same motherboard and took note of the VIA drivers they reported using. So far none of them has been the magic solution to getting 3DMark03 scores like I get with the same exact hardware on XP. But notice this: the fastest score is with XP, the second fastest is with the 77.72 driver even though it says the AGP is disabled! And I get a lower score with FW 81.98 or 82.69 even though HWiNFO and Coolbits show the AGP is enabled with those two drivers. Does it make any sense to you guys that I would get a better 3DMark score with AGP disabled and a worse score with it enabled? So at this point I do not trust what the utilities are telling me about the AGP. I think what I am going to do this week is try different combinations of FW and VIA drivers and run the same diagnostics and do some screenshots. This will be a repeat of what I have already tried but I was just recording the 3DMark03 scores and not the other info. I will do this again using the different tools and record the results. This way you and I both will have a clearer picture of what I'm seeing. Thanks, but I have all the VIA drivers from 4in1_4.28 to Pro_5.24A, and all the ForceWare drivers from 56.64 to 307.83 squirreled away on my server so I can try many different combinations easily. And I HAVE been trying many different combinations! BTW, these are my notes about the different VIA driver versions I have: Version - 4.28v 26 December 2000 AGP 08-10-2000, V4.04 INF V1.20 Version - 4.31v 04 May 2001 AGP 08-10-2000, V4.04 INF V1.20 Version - 4.35v 25 October 2001 AGP 08-10-2000, V4.04 INF V1.40 Version - 4.36a 15 March 2002 AGP 08-10-2000, V4.04 INF V1.40 Version - 4.43v 10 September 2002 AGP 07-24-2002, V4.30 INF V1.70 Version - 4.49v 22 October 2003 AGP 07-02-2003, V4.42 INF V1.90 Version - 4.53 10 August 2004 AGP 07-02-2003, V4.43 INF V2.20 Version - 4.53v 16 August 2004 AGP 07-02-2003, V4.43 INF V2.20 Version - 4.55vp1 25 November 2004 AGP 07-02-2003, V4.43 INF V2.20 Version - 4.56v 12 April 2005 AGP 08-19-2004, V4.43 INF V2.30 (1st to support PT880pro) Version - 5.04A 11 October 2005 AGP 08-19-2004, V4.43h INF V2.50A Version - 5.07A 04 January 2006 AGP 08-19-2004, V4.43 (4.50D?) INF V2.70A Version - 5.08A 07 April 2006 AGP 08-19-2004, V4.43 (4.50D?) INF V2.70B Version - 5.09A 30 June 2006 AGP 08-19-2004, V4.43 (4.50E?) INF V2.70B Version - 5.10A 28 February 2007 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V2.80A Version - 5.11A 01 February 2007 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V2.90A Version - 5.12A 30 May 2007 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V2.90A Version - 5.13A 27 August 2007 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V2.90A Version - 5.14A 27 November 2007 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V3.00A Version - 5.15A 07 January 2008 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V3.00A Version - 5.16A 28 March 2008 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V3.00A Version - 5.17A 28 April 2008 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V3.00A Version - 5.18A 16 June 2008 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V3.00A Version - 5.20A 12 August 2008 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V3.00A Version - 5.21A 20 October 2008 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V3.00A Version - 5.22A 30 December 2008 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V3.00A Version - 5.23A 03 April 2009 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V3.10A Version - 5.24A 09 June 2009 AGP 06-29-2006, V4.60A INF V3.10A Notice that the AGP driver doesn't change between 5.10A and 5.24A! I downloaded the Intel accelerator driver so I can give that a try. Thanks, DJ

OK, so to summarize the results so far: ASRock 775V88 P4-550(3400MHz) GF6800 Win98 FW81.98 3DMark03=7432 ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0 Dual-Core E5300(2600MHz) GF6800 Win98 FW81.98 3DMark03=4775 (IRQ share with USB) ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0 Dual-Core E6800(3330MHz) GF6800 Win98 FW77.72 3DMark03=7438 (IRQ share with USB) ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0 Dual-Core E6800(3330MHz) GF6800 Win98 FW77.72 3DMark03=7435 (no IRQ share) ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0 Dual-Core E6800(3330MHz) GF6800 Win98 FW81.98 3DMark03=5753 (IRQ share with USB) ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0 Dual-Core E6800(3330MHz) GF6800 Win98 FW82.69 3DMark03=7589 (no IRQ share) ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0 Dual-Core E6800(3330MHz) GF7800 Win98 FW82.69 3DMark03=5020 (IRQ share with USB) ASRock 4CoreDual-SATA2 R2.0 Dual-Core E6800(3330MHz) GF7800 XP FW94.24 3DMark03=14436 (IRQ share with USB) Please keep in mind that I was seeing AGP 4x and Fast Write disabled with different versions of Forceware under Win98, but as you can see above I got better scores with the 77.72. Though of course the best scores so far with this same exact hardware is with the XP. So the question is still: why do I get 2x the score with XP? What is wrong with my Win98 install/drivers that is holding it back?

The AGP tab doesn't show up with the FW77.72. It does show up with the 81.98 & 82.69. Everything else is the same. So far NOTHING will show me the APG status with the 77.72 driver installed. With 81.98 and 82.69 on either the GF6800 or GF7800 the APG status is shown by everything as 4x and Fast Write=Off. Any other tool that is known to show the AGP info? Without being able to confirm the AGP status, trying different drivers and settings is kinda just taking shots in the dark.... Thanks, DJ

Hmmm... I only see AGP Texture Acceleration. I don't think that is the same thing, is it? Thanks, DJ