Open Source Licensing Questions

[InTheWayBoy]

My organization got duped into by this questions electronic medical records (EMR) application called eClinicalWorks. Turns out it's not what we need, and while it's benefits are nice it's driving me mad.

The whole thing is nothing more than a slick java application, running ontop of several open source technologies like Apache, MySQL, Tomcat...basic things you find in an decent *AMPP project. You install those on the server, and then it has a local win32 application that handles the client. It's licensing costs are very low compaired to the rest of the ones we reviewed, but we are all starting to see why.

They don't offer 24/7/365 support, which is a joke being that it's healthcare. And the support they do have is worthless...they call back the next day, they are all Indian (They moved to Boston, made the thing, and then brought all their family over to staff it! LOL! I kid, but that's pretty close to what it's like there) and very hard to understand, and they are royal pricks about releasing info.

For instance, due to them offering the worlds worst support, I've been trying to coax them into giving me the installation notes for the server. The client install is your standard installshield, but since the server requires tweaking to all the previously mentioned services they like to do that themselves. They originally started out as an EMR for small practices, typically ones that also don't have full time IT. So they keep stressing the hard installation instructions, only offering a certification process which costs money and time...for what, to configure Apache? Now not that I'm some uber-geek, but I hold my own...in fact, I've already repackaged most of their installs because even the client requires multiple actions to properly install.

So I'm gearing up for attack mode, figure if I can't get it out of them nicely then I'll try and be a royal prick and see where that gets me. One of the things I see as being a problem is their open source licensing. I have a general idea of what that entails, but I feel like they aren't living up to their end of the deal. Since I don't get an install CD (They do the whole server install remotely) I don't have access to source, and they don't offer it easily off the web. From what I know that's a no-no right? Also, don't they in turn have to provide their source for applications based on the underlying open source tech? I remember it not requiring support files (System applications, updates, etc) but the core stuff that runs off Tomcat and Apache. Also, doesn't open source also require that I be able to distribute it freely, at least those sections covered under the license? Again, with their current setup they don't allow that, even going as far as password protecting the install .exe's and not giving out the passwords to us...of course I threw a keylogger on it and grabbed it that way.

That's what really burns me, is that I continue to reverse engineer their support from all angles and have a better understanding than some of their techs do, yet they won't give me the simple things like the install process for a server. As I pointed to them what happens if the server goes down Friday at 6:00PM? Currently we wait until Monday, which isn't an option with healthcare. My superiors are now starting to see my way, and are also pressing them on issues...we figure if we're stuck with it we ain't gonna make it easy for them.

Get this...their support forum isn't even run or funded by their company, it's by a fellow user! While I applaud the user in his gifts, it's amazing to me that no one thinks it's funny the thing doesn't have it's own official forum! And since the forum is the easiest way to get past the language barrier it's important that it's always there...and yet they don't even fund it! At least pay for it, then let the users support it.

GRRR! This is why I've been so abscent, dealing with this horrible package. Things continue to go sour I'm gonna make it my lifes work to run them outta business!

So to summerize the questions:

1. Do they need to provide the source for Apache, MySQL, Perl, Tomcat, etc as well as their code that runs off those? I know there are ways to restructure your code to charge for it, but how is that defined?

2. Can I just hand out the open source parts, specificially theirs?

3. If they are in question on these, can I press charges, or does the open source people have to do that? That would be fun!

That's all...I imagine I don't have as much clout as I think I do, but I want to know that I can backup what I say. Thanx!

[tain]

IANAL or a licensing expert, but I here is my take:

1. Do they need to provide the source for Apache, MySQL, Perl, Tomcat, etc as well as their code that runs off those? I know there are ways to restructure your code to charge for it, but how is that defined?

It depends on the license. GPL? Yes, they have to release their modifications to the code...but not any custom apps that run on top of the code without modifying it. BSD? No. They can keep everything to themselves.

2. Can I just hand out the open source parts, specificially theirs?

You mean redistribute the code? Depends on the license again, but generally yes.

3. If they are in question on these, can I press charges, or does the open source people have to do that? That would be fun!

I think the way it is supposed to work is that the people who published code under the GPL would be the ones having their rights violated...it would be up to them to decide. These licenses aren't necessarily ironclad just yet.

If you are seriously considering legal action you should contact the EFF for assistance.

(Sorry for the double EFF plug today (other post). Just a coincidence.)

Edited April 28, 2006 by TAiN

[ophiel]

first off, this is a civil matter, not a criminal one, so that makes things difficult right there.

since it's not YOUR license that's being trampled, you have no legal right to bring suit against them.

personally, i'd quit crying and license a real application.