OEM Installations - Product Key

[Asin]

So I've been working with IBM ThinkPads for a while at work and recently realized the Product Recovery image on the hidden partition contains some sort of corporate product key. This can be shown in the i386\winnt.sif or i386\unattended.txt file found on the copied local source on C:\. It's also confirmed with Belarc Advisor.

What's interesting is that it's different than the one that's on the license sticker on the bottom of the laptop. It makes sense since changing every single recovery image before rolling out the laptops isn't very practical.

So, I was doing an inventory of my Dell laptop before a reformat using Belarc Advisor and realized that the product key is different than the sticker on the bottom of the laptop. I've reformatted before using the Dell OEM CDs that came with the laptop.

What's happened here? Has Dell and IBM essentially given all their end-users two different licenses for Windows XP Home (Dell) / Professional (IBM) Editions?

The OEM product keys activate fine, and since they're rolled out to all users, they must be corporate.

[aspenjim]

All OEM's have a master install key that bypasses activation. That's why it's such a pain in the a** to activate an OEM install if you use a regular OEM CD and not the factory CD or restore CD to reinstall Windows. It is now such that, you feel like you are being interrogated by the FBI when you are forced to call in each time that you need to activate a legal copy of windows. Every time I've had too, they want the make and model of the PC and a good explanation of why you are reinstalling windows. Once you are finished being on the phone for 20 minutes of interrogation, you swear that the next time, you will use "other" means of activation.

aj

[Asin]

Sorry for not searching for this next question, but I'm on a bit of a tight schedule.

What are the chances of using the Dell OEM CD to make an unattended CD using this key that I got from Belarc Advisor?

[InTheWayBoy]

You can, but there are a few things to watch out for:

1. Dell adds extra things to their CD's, so you'll have to take that into account. They might add extra drivers (Intel SATA), extra OEM stuff (OEM Branding), and I've seen some wierd archives that have Dell in their names located in the I386 dir. They also edit some of the core files, like the TXTSETUP.SIF (To allow for the added drivers).

2. There are some files that somehow dictate the OEM Activiation you are talking about. I don't think these will get in the way, but they are custom.

I've found if you are just looking to go the unattended route, and just require a custom winnt.sif you'll be fine. If you want to modify it, with nlite for instance, you might run into issues in that some files aren't normal. nlite doesn't take this into account, and it can cause problems in the end.

So if you want to heavily modify it, I wouldn't suggest using it...you'll run across too many random issues.

[Asin]

I guess that a modified winnt.sif, drivers, all updates including a SP2 slipstream, and applications via RunOnceEx would be considered a heavy modification?

Any updates that I do would be done manually if that makes any difference.

[aspenjim]

Just for the record the 4 files that are different for each major OEM are... OEMBIOS.BIN, OEMBIOS.SIG, OEMBIOS.DAT and OEMBIOS.CAT. I've found that you can make your own customized (N-lited) install replacing those files from the respective original OEM's installation. I too have an IBM thinkpad and managed to substitute those 4 files and recreate the i386 directory from a normal OEM CD from say newegg.com. Dell XP CD's work fine as documented above as you can do about anything from nlite). I also reinstall XP on lots of HP's w/ XP home using the master key found using belarc or magic jellybean keyfinder. It's particularly sweet w/ HP's as you don't get all of the crap bloatware HP includes and don't have to call MS and beg and plead w/ them to reactivate an already legal copy of windows. Same thing goes for Compaq.

aj

[Asin]

But unless it's a Dell laptop, I take it that this is illegal?

[aspenjim]

How is it illegal? You own the software (or license) and the PC and it's not illegal to reinstall w/o all of the bloat the way you want to - not the way HP or Compaq wants you to see XP (full of advertising crap). You just need a legal OEM copy of XP so you can tailor the install with what you want and you can use the master key just they way the original OEM did. Or alternatively, you can install with the key provided on the COA and fight with MS people in India and be made feel like you are installing it on massive PC's.

You didn't used to have to call to phone activate, but since early August, every install I've done on an OEM PC, it would not activate (using the COA key) over the internet.

Regarding drivers, I always look in the OEM drivers directory (or whatever name they choose) and copy the drivers to a USB stick and then when I nlite the install, I use these drivers. (which are usually out of date just like xp is).

Con is that sometimes you loose access to other (junk) software like Sonic CD burning, etc. With Dell, usually you can get it from their other CD's and the updates on their support website.

End result is you get a much cleaner up-to-date install without bloat.

The OEM wouldn't like this approach, but it is your PC and your license and fully legal.

Edited October 2, 2005 by aspenjim

[Asin]

If this key technically belongs to the OEM, in this case Dell, doesn't that mean that using it for your own purposes on a differently branded laptop make it illegal? It's not my product key since it belongs to Dell.

My Dell OEM CD isn't exactly the best. When I reinstall, all I get is just a regular Windows XP Home installation that didn't ask me for the product key. There are no drivers installed in the end which sucks.

It's worth noting that I haven't actually taken a close look at my Dell CD since I started learning about unattended installations 2 months ago for work purposes.

[aspenjim]

No, you can't use it on anything except a Dell, same with the HP master key or the Compaq. All major OEMs have their own Pro and Home master keys. It's some sort of a royalty scenario. If you use a Dell master key on anything except a Dell, it will have to be activated in 30 days, and in any case it wil NOT activate.

[edit] I misread your question. I didn't see that "unless it's a Dell laptop". I saw Dell laptop and assumed you meant Dell PC and Dell laptop.

Edited October 2, 2005 by aspenjim

[jimmsta]

You can, but there are a few things to watch out for:

1. Dell adds extra things to their CD's, so you'll have to take that into account. They might add extra drivers (Intel SATA), extra OEM stuff (OEM Branding), and I've seen some wierd archives that have Dell in their names located in the I386 dir. They also edit some of the core files, like the TXTSETUP.SIF (To allow for the added drivers).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The main thing that Dell adds to their XP home SP2 cd's is the following file, compressed into a cab (xml "Package Description.xml" file)

 <?xml version="1.0" ?> 
- <HELPCENTERPACKAGE>
  <VERSION VALUE="0.0.0.0" /> 
  <PRODUCT ID="Dell Inc." /> 
  <SKU VALUE="ALL" /> 
  <LANGUAGE VALUE="ALL" /> 
- <NODEOWNERS>
  <OWNER DN="CN=Dell Inc.,L=Round Rock,S=Texas,C=US" /> 
  </NODEOWNERS>
  </HELPCENTERPACKAGE>

I guess it's a way to brand the Help & Support part of XP as being a part of Dell... or something.

Then there's another file with the actual Help and support files, as well as some sort of Driver package descriptor file... random things to ensure that the end user is getting their Dell PC back to Dell PC standards.

Edited October 2, 2005 by jimmsta

[Asin]

My Help and Support doesn't look very branded to me. I've got a SP1 disc; two year old laptop.

All that I've got is an OEM XP CD with Dell written on it and it's purple. There's also two other discs with drivers and another one for applications which doesn't contain anything more than the Dell Help Centre and I think Roxio Easy CD Creator.

Honestly, I wish that there was a way for me to restore my computer back to its factory fresh state, but there isn't. Dell Support says that the drivers must be installed in a certain order which is just plain wrong. They should be doing that themselves with the CD.

And because all Windows XP CDs have a limited list of inbox drivers, it essentially screws me over in the end since the chipset drivers have to be done first or else weird stuff happens. I'm thinking that that's what's causing my problems.

I've gone through another reformat since then, but it didn't help that much. I figured that if I had to live with it, I'd go with a SP2 upgrade. That didn't work out too well, so I downgraded to SP1. Looked good for a while, then stuff started acting up again with the high CPU usage. It's since calmed down a bit, but I wouldn't exactly call this a stable system, regardless of whether or not it was written by Microsoft.

Edited October 3, 2005 by Asin