Multi-OS install via Ghost

[Spinman]

Want to try something new and hope someone can look over my shoulder.

Have a laptop with a 6g drive running W98se.

I've removed the drive from the laptop - installed in my desktop (xp) and generated a ghost image of the laptop hard drive.

(I don't have a cd or floppy drive on the laptop - so I need to setup as much as possible while the drive is out of the laptop)

I'm going to install a larger HD and want to install 3 OS - so that I can multi-boot.

Partition #1 - Dos 6.1 (Fat 16) C:\

Partition #2 - W98SE (Fat32) D:\

Partition #3 - W2K (Fat32) E:\

Thought I'd created the 3 partitions and sys c:\ and transfer the Dos files to the c:\ partition.

I'd then reinstall the ghost image of W98SE to d:\

And copy the installation disk for W2k to E:\ (Setup at fat32 so that I can access the partition from W98 (or should I setup at Fat16 so that I can boot to it from dos?

yada yada yada

Will the W98 partition be the primary boot device if I set the partition as active?

Does W2K support multi booting like xp does?

Problems?

Thoughts?

Suggestions?

More to come as I think of it...

[nic2k5]

There are at least three ways you can do this, the first and obvious one is to use a boot manager. There may be limitations, considering the OS's you want to use, that is, they all require to boot from the first partition of the first drive. I can't say what that might imply as I've never tried it. Here are a couple free managers:

Ranish

Extended FDISK

The second way is using the facilities offered by Ms, basically all you do is install the different OS's in the proper sequence. In your case, start with DOS6, then Win98 and finally Win2k. When booting, the Win2k boot manager would offer to select between 98 or 2000. If you want to start DOS6, you have to choose 98, then hit F8 and choose to boot from the old version OS. One caveat, DOS6 can't handle FAT32. A way around this would be to partition the drive at least in two, the C: drive should be formatted for DOS6 (FAT) and kept as small as possible (<1Gb), then format the next partition in FAT32. Install 98 on the D: drive; if you want you can even put 2000 on a third partition (E: drive) and use NTFS (just remember 98 can't read NTFS natively). I guess this would also apply to using a partition manager.

The third and most elegant solution requires a BIOS that support boot drive selection. Recent PC's have this option in the advanced setup, where you can choose the drive letter to boot from. In this case you would just install each OS individually on their own drive, then boot and change the drive in the BIOS or use a menu (depends on the BIOS). I don't think this would work with partition drive letters.

Since you want to do this on a laptop, the second option might be the more viable one.

[ssmokee]

Why DOS 6.1? I still use DOS a lot but I use 7.x (whatever ver came with 98se). You can still use DOS 6.1 executables with it if you want to, but using the 7.x command.com (plus other basic files) gives you access (including bootability) to/from FAT32 partitions.

[Spinman]

I'm just experimenting - trying to learn a few tricks.

I've got a program for reading the data stream from the diagnostic port of my car that runs in DOS that I've never been able to run properly.

I've tried using a state of the art XP laptop - booting with a DOS 3.2 disk (NEC customized) and a W98 Startup disk - and while both load the program - it does not process the data properly via the serial port. Wanted to try it with DOS 6.2, the last MS release.

Was told by the program author that I would have better luck using a slower laptop rather than a P4 machine. Also suggested DOS rather the the W98 version.

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Also have a program that only run on W98 - thus the need for that partition.

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And finally - the laptop does not have enought HP to run XP - so wanted to throw on W2K for all other applications - and avoid the BSOD syndrome.

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Now my problem is - how do I install the DOS? When I try to SYS the drive from the command prompt on my XP machine I am using for loading - it informs me that I am using a incompatable system. When I boot from the DOS 6.2 floppy - it will not find any of my drives...

Can I copy the files from the floppy to the partition - or must I use the sys command? As I recall - io.sys and msdos.sys had to be the 1st 2 files on the drive - or else it would not boot.

Why DOS 6.1? I still use DOS a lot but I use 7.x (whatever ver came with 98se). You can still use DOS 6.1 executables with it if you want to, but using the 7.x command.com (plus other basic files) gives you access (including bootability) to/from FAT32 partitions.

[Spinman]

If this will work, here's my game plan...

Create the 3 partitions - #1 Fat16 1g; #2 Fat32 20g; #3 NTFS 40g

Install DOS 6.2 to Partition #1 (still trying to figure out how to properly install - can't figure out a way to easily sys the partition)

Copy W98SE ghost to partition #2

Copy W2K install disk to partition #2

set partition #2 as active - so that I can boot to W98

Boot to W98 partition - test ability to boot instead to DOS

Boot to W98 - install W2k to partition #3

checkout w2k boot manager functions

test w2k installation

The second way is using the facilities offered by Ms, basically all you do is install the different OS's in the proper sequence. In your case, start with DOS6, then Win98 and finally Win2k. When booting, the Win2k boot manager would offer to select between 98 or 2000. If you want to start DOS6, you have to choose 98, then hit F8 and choose to boot from the old version OS. One caveat, DOS6 can't handle FAT32. A way around this would be to partition the drive at least in two, the C: drive should be formatted for DOS6 (FAT) and kept as small as possible (<1Gb), then format the next partition in FAT32. Install 98 on the D: drive; if you want you can even put 2000 on a third partition (E: drive) and use NTFS (just remember 98 can't read NTFS natively). I guess this would also apply to using a partition manager.

[nic2k5]

If this will work, here's my game plan...

Create the 3 partitions - #1 Fat16 1g; #2 Fat32 20g; #3 NTFS 40g

Install DOS 6.2 to Partition #1 (still trying to figure out how to properly install - can't figure out a way to easily sys the partition)

Copy W98SE ghost to partition #2

Copy W2K install disk to partition #2

set partition #2 as active - so that I can boot to W98

Boot to W98  partition - test ability to boot instead to DOS

Boot to W98 - install W2k to partition #3

checkout w2k boot manager functions

test w2k installation

The problem is that you're using DOS6; it's not compatible with FAT32. You could use FAT16 for DOS and Win98, but that's not very efficient and I don't think Win2000 would like that. You can't sys the partition with DOS6 'cause it's too large. Fdisk the drive and re-partition it, this time make the first partition smaller than 512 Mb and make it active (use the win98 Fdisk). Partitions smaller than 512 Mb get formatted in FAT16 (brain fade on my part). Use DOS6 to format /s the C: drive, then you must run the Win98 setup even if you only do a minimal install. This will replace the DOS6 MSDOS.SYS and IO.SYS with 98's and rename them to .OLD, then when you use 98's boot menu and choose previous version, you'll have access to DOS6. I haven't installed any OS in a while, but now I think setup won't let you put Windows on a drive other than C:, I need to check it out. There's no problem installing your programs on the D: drive, however. Then the question is will 2000 install to a different drive?

You can't ghost your old 98 onto the D: drive, you will have all sorts of problems with file paths and programs not found (your old 98 will be pointing to C:). Even if you make D: the active partition, only one can be active, so DOS won't boot. You can't ghost to C: as it would erase DOS6, change the format to FAT32 and probably not fit anyway.

Now my problem is - how do I install the DOS? When I try to SYS the drive from the command prompt on my XP machine I am using for loading - it informs me that I am using a incompatable system. When I boot from the DOS 6.2 floppy - it will not find any of my drives...

Can I copy the files from the floppy to the partition - or must I use the sys command? As I recall - io.sys and msdos.sys had to be the 1st 2 files on the drive - or else it would not boot.

To be able to use the boot managers, you have to run setup on the laptop. Don't forget DOS6 can't see FAT32 and NTFS partitions; Win98 can't see NTFS partitions. If you want access to all your files, use Win2k in FAT32. There are some drivers that allow DOS and 98 to read NTFS and FAT32 with limitations. You could try FreeDOS, it supports FAT32.

[Spinman]

Thanks -

I've given up on the DOS aspect for the time being. I'll trying something else down the road. Just interested in dual boot with W98 and W2K at this time.

Created 2 new partitions on my hard drive - 30g fat32 and 50g ntfs

Loaded the ghost image of the W98SE (including MBR) into the 30g partition - set as active.

Put the drive in my laptop - it froze at the POST, indicating the 32g barrier limitation in bios. Pulled the drive and installed a dynamic drive overlay offline.

Reinstalled the drive in the laptop and it booted to W98 - showed the 30g partition.

It did not show any entry for the NTFS partition. Even though W98 can't read NTFS - should it not show the partition - or is even that impossible?

If I'm going to dual boot between w98 and W2k - does that mean that the W2k system needs to also use FAT32? Or just during the installation (in as much as I have the cd image in the W98 partition for setup). Once installed, and using the MS boot manager, I could convert the drive if I so desired...

Is there a MS drive manager utility in W98 as there is in XP - that I could use to reformat the ntfs partition to FAT32 - or will I need to pull the drive?

I also understand the W98 has a limitation of 30g for partition size - so I would need to set up at least 3 partitions to obtain the entire capacity of the 80g drive. True?

I assume that the dynamic drive overlay will support multiple partitions on the drive - and not just the 1st 30g partition...

Thanks again...

[ssmokee]

I also understand the W98 has a limitation of 30g for partition size - so I would need to set up at least 3 partitions to obtain the entire capacity of the 80g drive. True?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Win98 doesnt have a 30GB partition size limitation. MS fdisk has an artificial limitation in which you cant create a fat32 partition larger than 32GB. I just use free fdisk to get around that. I think the disk managers in 2K/XP have the same artificial limitation.

[nic2k5]

There is an Fdisk update available from MS, that remove the 64Gb limitation (I use two 120 Gb un-partitionned drives with 98).

Is there a MS drive manager utility in W98 as there is in XP - that I could use to reformat the ntfs partition to FAT32 - or will I need to pull the drive?

No, there isn't, but you don't need to pull the drive either. Just use ghost to do the partitionning. First, boot from a floppy and use Fdisk to delete all partitions, then run Ghost and instead of loading to partition, load to drive. On the screen after you choose the target drive, where you see the size of the drive, if you click the Mb it turns into an entry box where you can type the partition size. After that, a new line will appear for the remainder of the drive, click that number again to create a third partition. Once 98 is running, you can format the partitions.

It did not show any entry for the NTFS partition. Even though W98 can't read NTFS - should it not show the partition - or is even that impossible?

If you run Fdisk and choose option 4, you'll see the NTFS partition reported as an unknown file system. 98's file system treats it as un-partitionned (the same as if you didn't create an extended partition); it's not there.

I've given up on the DOS aspect for the time being. I'll trying something else down the road. Just interested in dual boot with W98 and W2K at this time.

You don't have to give it up, just boot the DOS OS from a floppy. Create a third partition of less than 512 Mb, format it and copy all the DOS files and your programs to it. Then, include A: and any other directories you want in the PATH statement. Keep in mind, it's probable DOS6 would think the only partition it sees is the C: drive even if 98 calls it E:.

Another alternative would be to boot from a USB pen drive, that would be more responsive than a floppy and depending on it's size you could do away with a partition on the HD. That's only possible if your laptop BIOS has support for Thumbdrives in DOS and can boot off an ARMD device.

Edited September 16, 2005 by nic2k5

[Spinman]

Appreciate everyone input - I've learned a lot the past two days.

I was going to start a new thread - but I'll try appending this one with my latest conflicts...

As a reminder - this is an ancient laptop from 2000 - I'm running up against the 32g barrier in Bios (no support - upgrades not available - can't find any thing that has already been hacked). FYI - Itronix XC-6250-PRO (300).

There is no internal floppy or cd drive - that is why I need to install what I can off line and then reinstall the drive in the laptop for final configurations. My only option at this point would be to search ebay for a PCMCIA bootable floppy that would allow me to do whatever I can via the floppy - but I would still not have access to the usb port and lack a pcmcia cd drive for data transfer / installs... Would prefer not to spend anything $ on obsolete technology...

I do have an 1g PCMCIA ATA flash card that I have never tested. The laptop is suppose to be able to boot from that device. (more on this later).

With the laptop drive mounted in my desktop - I've established a 30g fat32 partition - did a norton ghost drive copy from my old 6g laptop drive (including the option to transfer the MBR) and then used a drive utility to set the drive size as 32g (ignoring the rest of the 80g drive capacity). When I installed the drive back into the laptop - it booted up, recognized the OS and the 30g partition it resided in.

I'm now trying to see if I can somehow bypass the 32g limitation so that I can access the entire 80g's. Based upon my experiments, it looks doubtful. Reading other posts for this particular model - others have commented that they have been unable to use a drive larger than 32g (not knowing what steps they actually took).

I have installed Maxtor EZ Bios on the drive. When I boot my desktop with the drive - it reads the bios and then freezes. When I boot the laptop with the drive - it freezes at the POST and does not display the EZ drive message. Same result as when I used the virgin 80g drive. So it appears that the laptop is not processing the EZ drive bios for some reason. (1st reason I'm beginning to believe this is an impossible project).

I'm wondering why the drive will not load the OS when mounted in my desktop - after it reads the EZ drive bios. During this setup - I used Norton ghost to restore an existing backup to the partition (not the drive copy I used in the working 32g setup). As I recall, there was no option for me to select to install or not install the MBR that I received when I did the drive to drive copy.

When I restore a ghost backup - does it install the mbr and make the drive bootable - or just the partition info? (It does ask me if I want to make the partition active). If that is the case - I'll need to keep the exising 6g drive as backup - or figure some other way to generate a mbr - otherwise the ghost image is useless to me as an emergency recovery device....

When I get home tonight - I'll try doing a drive copy with the mbr option on the drive with the ezbios installed and see what that will do. Wondering if the mbr will over-write the ezbios and render if null and void. If that works - it should be able to boot my desktop - but I'll still have the problem with the laptop not processing the ezbios, for whatever reason.

[Spinman]

Won't know until I try, but wondering if the 1g PCMCIA ATA Flash PCMCIA card might be a work around some problems.

The 1g card is too small to hold ghost and my 3.5g image so I would need to do a fresh install, if possible.

I would need to install my floppy based drive manager software on the card so that I can boot to the card, do a low level format, load ezdrive bios and establish partition on the hard drive while mounted in the laptop. (wondered about the necessity to install the ezbios to the drive while mounted on the actual machine that has the capacity limitation vs my XP desktop)...

I would also need to have my W98SE install disk on the card so that I could load the OS once the drive is setup and recognized. (If at this point I don't show the entire 80 g size or if the bios is locked up - time to bale).

32g keeps staring me in the face as my long term upper limit...

[nic2k5]

If that PCMCIA card is bootable, that would definitly solve a few of your problems. To verify, you'll have to put the 6Gb drive back in the laptop, format it with copy system files (make sure command.com is on there). Then take the HD out and see if it will boot.

There are two possible reasons why EZBIOS won't work with your drive. One, there has to be at least one Maxtor drive present, is the 80 Gb drive from Maxtor? Two, drive overlays usually require the drive parameters to be set to type 1 in the BIOS. That setting may not be available in your laptop, but you may be able to use another one, check the Overlay manual. There are other overlay programs available, even generic ones; I would start by checking with the drive manufacturer. While you're there, find the manual for it, some 3.5" drives have a jumper to force the drive to 32 Gb, if your drive as that, it could be a last resort option.

The DOS version of Ghost works just fine with overlays, as long as you boot the correct way. Use the Z=9 switch when running ghost, that will maximize compression, I typically get close to 50% compression ratio.

To get the DOS version, start the Boot Wizzard and select a simple boot disc, no usb and no LAN, you should need only one floppy. Make a second boot floppy with Windows, you only want MSDOS.SYS, IO.SYS and Command.com on there. Then, from your Ghost floppy, copy all the files over but those three (edit the autoexec.bat to add Z=9 at the end of the line that runs Ghost), now Ghost will be able to write to FAT32 drives.

Put both laptop drives in your desktop, unplug the XP drive and set the 6 Gb drive as master on the primary channel. Get an overlay working on the 80 Gb drive, reboot with the Ghost floppy and do a drive copy, use ghost to partition the 80 Gb drive. You'll only need to format the extra partitions later. Make sure to follow the procedure to boot from floppy with the overlay; you have to wait to be told to put the floppy in. If you can manually set the drive parameters in the laptop BIOS, then just match what was set on the desktop.

If you want to be able to use Ghost on the laptop in the future, make an extra FAT32 partition of 10 Gb maybe, name it Backup, copy the Ghost program to it. To run Ghost, start the laptop in safe mode command prompt only switch to the backup partition and run Ghost Z=9. You can simplify this with a batch file in the root of C:. Do a partition dump to file of C: with the backup partition as the target.