cov3rt Posted May 8 Posted May 8 I'm having a very hard time trying to install windows 2000 on modern hardware, specifically on a sandy bridge system at the moment ( hp probook 6460b with 4 GB memory installed and latest bios ). I have tried so many different approaches / methods, from disabling serial / parallel ports in bios, disabling other devices like fingerprint device, trying in ide mode vs ahci, limiting to 1 core, disabling hyperthreading, etc, but i just cant get any sort of method to work with default acpi install, or even manually choosing any of the acpi related entries from the F5 menu. Because ACPI is needed for many functions like gpu driver ( intel hd 3000, etc ), installing in standard pc is therefore not a choice. All systems have same issue, they get stuck at the "setup is starting windows 2000" part. The specific media i tried was a relatively minimal modifed 2K SP4 iso with ahci / sata drivers preloaded + acpi.sys 6921 integrated as referenced in some guides, though i didn't delete the "usbhub20.sys" file in the installation contents. Other iso i tried is the one from here "https://w2k.skver.space/isos/YSI_Win2kPro_R3.3_DEV-TEST-processr.iso", and "https://archive.org/details/windows2000-hfslip-english-finished" with filename "HFSLIP120825_2K_20241225_13h08m", all end up with same hang.
Start Me Up Posted May 9 Posted May 9 (edited) Well, if the problem is related to the setup, then there is one thing that you could try in either way, whatever is more convenient for you: Install Windows 2000 on a different computer and use ACPI during the installation. Once the installation is complete and you are able to start Windows and shutdown successfully, unmount the hard disk drive and mount it into your Sandy Bridge system. Or: Install Windows 2000 on your Sandy Bridge system but with Standard PC selected. Once the installation is fully done switch to ACPI PC from the device manager. The probability that this will work isn't high but since your setup hangs you still got more than 0% chance for success. Edit: Once you booted to desktop with Standard PC or on different hardware you might also want to check whether some core components are of recent versions. Some bugs have been fixed since service pack 4 and therefore might help booting on your Sandy Bridge system: acpi.sys - version 5.00.2195.6920 mup.sys - version 5.00.2195.7442 ntkrnlmp.exe - version 5.00.2195.7473 ntkrnlpa.exe - version 5.00.2195.7473 ntkrpamp.exe - version 5.00.2195.7473 ntoskrnl.exe - version 5.00.2195.7473 fastfat.sys - version 5.00.2195.7075 ntfs.sys - version 5.00.2195.7050 udfs.sys - version 5.00.2195.7032 dmio.sys - version 2195.7058.297.3 ntldr - date 2004-12-28 These files can be updated with official Windows updates. Let us know if you need an update for any of the files. Edited May 9 by Start Me Up
cov3rt Posted May 9 Author Posted May 9 Thank you for info, i likely won't be going the path of standard pc to ACPI enable after os install, however...., the information you posted on the files is giving some interesting findings because i checked at least "mup.sys" and "ntkrnlmp.exe" from your list, and they are newer than the versions included in "HFSLIP120825_2K_20241225_13h08m", which doesn't really make sense. Why would BWC's package use older ones, considering your list is apparently based off "official" windows updates? Of course, what makes things more complicated is that BWC's package is also integrating extended kernel which includes files not from your list, like halacpi.dll, etc, though i actually took that reference from his older "Windows2000-UURollup-v11-d20141130-x86-ENU", which isn't even the one his more updated iso includes. I never used his newer extended kernels after OS install because they didn't work for my system's environment, so i only installed up to ""Windows2000-UURollup-v11-d20141130-x86-ENU". I also checked "Windows2000-UURollup-v11-d20141130-x86-ENU", and at least "ntoskrnl.exe" is a older version than the one from your list, so also interesting.
cov3rt Posted May 11 Author Posted May 11 ok, here's what i got for comparison of different iso packages / reference points: the "HFSLIP120825_2K_20241225_13h08m" iso package: acpi.sys - version 5.00.2195.6920 mup.sys - version 5.00.2195.7006 ntkrnlmp.exe - version 5.00.2195.7392 ntkrnlpa.exe - version 5.00.2195.7392 ntkrpamp.exe - version 5.00.2195.7392 ntoskrnl.exe - version 5.00.2195.7392 fastfat.sys - version 5.00.2195.7075 ntfs.sys - version 5.00.2195.7050 udfs.sys - version 5.1.2600.5512 dmio.sys - version 2195.7058.297.3 ntldr - date modified 2007-02-17 - 303 KB official windows update file list mentioned by "Start Me Up": acpi.sys - version 5.00.2195.6920 mup.sys - version 5.00.2195.7442 ntkrnlmp.exe - version 5.00.2195.7473 ntkrnlpa.exe - version 5.00.2195.7473 ntkrpamp.exe - version 5.00.2195.7473 ntoskrnl.exe - version 5.00.2195.7473 fastfat.sys - version 5.00.2195.7075 ntfs.sys - version 5.00.2195.7050 udfs.sys - version 5.00.2195.7032 dmio.sys - version 2195.7058.297.3 ntldr - date 2004-12-28 for the "YSI_Win2kPro_R3.3_DEV-TEST-processr" iso package below. acpi.sys in i386/driver.cab is same file version but different product version as old.acpi.sys that is contained in i386, and that file product version is "5.1.2600.7777.8", where as the earlier 2 files read "5.1.2600.1106" for product version. i'm not sure what the installer logic is on this iso, but i'm assuming the "old.acpi.sys" one isn't the default ACPI that installs, but is it even possible to choose which one to install in this case? acpi.sys - 5.1.2600.7777 for file version, product version varies because of multiple variants in the package. mup.sys - version 5.00.2195.7006 ntkrnlmp.exe - version 5.00.2195.7394 ntkrnlpa.exe - version 5.00.2195.7394 ntkrpamp.exe - version 5.00.2195.7394 ntoskrnl.exe - version 5.00.2195.7394 fastfat.sys - version 5.00.2195.7075 ntfs.sys - version 5.00.2195.7050 udfs.sys - version 5.00.2195.7032 dmio.sys - version 2195.7058.297.3 ntldr - date 2004-12-28
Start Me Up Posted May 11 Posted May 11 (edited) Quote acpi.sys - version 5.00.2195.6920 Good, it's the newest, as far as I know. Quote mup.sys - version 5.00.2195.7006 The version 5.00.2195.7006 is from the update rollup 1 for service pack 4. There is a non security related bug fix (KB896260) which updates the file to version 5.00.2195.7035. Then there is a security related bug fix (KB2535512) which updates the file to version 5.00.2195.7442. Quote ntkrnlmp.exe - version 5.00.2195.7392 ntkrnlpa.exe - version 5.00.2195.7392 ntkrpamp.exe - version 5.00.2195.7392 ntoskrnl.exe - version 5.00.2195.7392 The version 5.00.2195.7392 is unknown to me. There is a security related bug fix (KB2676562) which updates the files to version 5.00.2195.7473. Quote fastfat.sys - version 5.00.2195.7075 ntfs.sys - version 5.00.2195.7050 Good, they are the newest, as far as I know. Quote udfs.sys - version 5.1.2600.5512 The version 5.1.2600.5512 is no part of Windows 2000. It's a part of Windows XP and might not be compatible with Windows 2000. There is a non security related bug fix (KB897574) which updates the file to version 5.00.2195.7032. Quote dmio.sys - version 2195.7058.297.3 Good, it's the newest, as far as I know. Quote ntldr - date modified 2007-02-17 - 303 KB The file with the date 2007-02-17 is not a part of Windows 2000 and might not be compatible with Windows 2000. There is a non security related bug fix (KB890579) which updates the file to the date 2004-12-28. Quote BWC's package is also integrating extended kernel which includes files not from your list, like halacpi.dll Sorry, my list was not complete. Here are the newest files of this type that I am aware of: halaacpi.dll - version 5.00.2195.6988 halacpi.dll - version 5.00.2195.6988 halapic.dll - version 5.00.2195.6988 halmacpi.dll - version 5.00.2195.6988 halmps.dll - version 5.00.2195.6801 Quote acpi.sys - version 5.1.2600.7777.8 acpi.sys - version 5.1.2600.1106 These versions are no part of Windows 2000 and might not be compatible with Windows 2000. Regarding files from Windows XP: Noone can tell whether any of them actually work in Windows 2000. Keep in mind that there are dudes out there who create Windows Frankenstein and when it doesn't instantaneously crash and burn on their computer then they claim that it works in general (for everyone). Quote acpi.sys - version 5.00.2195.6921 The version 5.00.2195.6921 was created by BlackWingCat and it is based on the newest official version 5.00.2195.6920. I read a comment by someone that BlackWingCat's version doesn't work on any of the systems he has. However, he didn't say whether the original version works for him. So I can't tell for sure whether he was reporting a regression or simply a "still not good enough". Quote ... but is it even possible to choose which one to install in this case? No, not that I am aware of. Windows chooses for you based on the location and the file name in combination with an inf file. --- Have you tried an original unmodified iso of Windows 2000 with SP4 integrated? Let me know if you need any official update. Edited May 11 by Start Me Up
cov3rt Posted May 11 Author Posted May 11 Thank you for the info. When i was speaking with chatgpt earlier, it had also referenced 3 of 5 of the new files you added ( halacpi.dll (ACPI uni-processor), halaacpi.dll (ACPI multiprocessor), halmacpi.dll (APIC multiprocessor). It said that these files may have an implication to why i can't get past the "setup is starting windows 2000" part, because it has do with "a pre-OS ACPI/IOAPIC initialization deadlock in BIOS", in other words it cannot properly translate / understand and put together these things, so it stalls/breaks at this part, and that the other files like "ntkrnlmp.exe" aren't involved at this point yet, ( those come later in the setup/install phase ). I know i also mentioned i wouldn't install with standard pc and then enable acpi after os install, but at this point, i dont think ill get any hope installing with acpi, but at the same time, i dont see any sort of particular method would work after os install to get acpi to install correctly, because it still comes down to a careful combination of files, and if anything in the combination is not exact and / or any individual file isn't finely patched/tweaked for windows 2000, then it will just lead to a unbootable system and no way of restoring with safe mode last known configuration either, at least i tried this a few days ago and i couldn't get the last known configuration to work ( would give a black screen with blinking cursor endlessly ). So that being said, i am still leaving this as one of the last resort options again. Currently, bwc's version probably is the quickest to do this method, because his system doesn't need a long update process, almost everything is already installed from beforehand, i just replace the acpi / hal related files, then go to device manager to change to acpi presumably and see if it works better with these files?
Start Me Up Posted May 11 Posted May 11 (edited) Well, at the end of the day you make the decision and you decide which approach you choose. I can throw some information in and voice my opinion so you know what I would have done in your situation but I am not in your situation. Since you already got quite some information, here is my opinion: The first thing I would do is switch to Standard PC and then use Standard PC. Standard PC is not worse than ACPI PC. There are good reasons why this HAL exists. If there was a good reason not to use Standard PC then I would use it anyway, make an installation, install update rollup 1 for service pack 4 and then switch to ACPI PC. If the system doesn't boot anymore then just format the hard disk again. This experiment costs you something between 30 minutes and 1 hour. Just consider how much time this discussion costed on your side plus mine. However, so far I have not read any good reason why it was necessary to use ACPI PC. You mentioned that Intel's driver was needing ACPI PC. However, when I was using a driver from Intel for a graphics circuit (not for Sandy Bridge), I noticed that the HAL does not matter. Afterwards I deinstalled Intel's driver again and used something better. Also, I would not use the Frankenstein version with all kind of components which were collected from different Windows versions. But my opinion is only of limited value because you need to be happy with your system and my opinion on how you set up your system matters only little. Btw: Switching the HAL in the device manager might not work properly if someone messed with driver.cab. At the moment we still don't know whether the problem you are facing can be solved by using a different HAL (like standard PC), whether it is just a bug in the setup or whether it is related to one of the unofficial files or whether the problem comes from a messed up integration of other stuff into the iso. So much guessing and so little tests done to narrow down the problem. Edited May 11 by Start Me Up
cov3rt Posted May 11 Author Posted May 11 When you say for example switching the hal in the device manager might not work properly if someone messed with the driver.cab, does that mean that i'd need to match exactly what i installed with in order to change from standard pc to acpi in device manager? Because it doesn't seem i'd need to do that, in other words, as long as the system has all the updated files from beforehand and none of the older / "incompatible" ones, then that would be sufficient to go from standard pc to acpi ( success is a different story ), which is what i was eluding to in my earlier post. The way i'd replace acpi or related files is simply searching the system and replacing it anywhere it's located with the updated ones, such as in the case of just before installing "Windows2000-UURollup-v11-d20141130-x86-ENU" if not using "HFSLIP120825_2K_20241225_13h08m" or "YSI_Win2kPro_R3.3_DEV-TEST-processr", but rather from regular 2k pro sp4 iso with update rollup 1 from beforehand like you mentioned. I will attempt again with at least one of these options with installation via standard pc and try attempting change to acpi, and will see what happens.
Start Me Up Posted May 12 Posted May 12 (edited) 10 hours ago, cov3rt said: When you say for example switching the hal in the device manager might not work properly if someone messed with the driver.cab, does that mean that i'd need to match exactly what i installed with in order to change from standard pc to acpi in device manager? Because it doesn't seem i'd need to do that, in other words, as long as the system has all the updated files from beforehand and none of the older / "incompatible" ones, then that would be sufficient to go from standard pc to acpi ( success is a different story ), which is what i was eluding to in my earlier post. The way i'd replace acpi or related files is simply searching the system and replacing it anywhere it's located with the updated ones, such as in the case of just before installing "Windows2000-UURollup-v11-d20141130-x86-ENU" if not using "HFSLIP120825_2K_20241225_13h08m" or "YSI_Win2kPro_R3.3_DEV-TEST-processr", but rather from regular 2k pro sp4 iso with update rollup 1 from beforehand like you mentioned. I have no idea what you are trying to do. Are you trying to manually replace system files? The device manager has a graphical user interface to switch from one hardware abstraction layer to another. Are we talking about the same procedure? Regarding driver.cab and sp4.cab: In driver.cab there should be old files. No new ones. driver.cab is for the RTM files. These are the files that existed before any service pack was released. In sp4.cab there should be the files that were introduced with service pack 4. Nothing newer nor anything other than files from service pack 4. The problem I have noticed is that people who don't know how the system file protection works place their new files in these cabinet files where they don't belong to prevent the system from overwriting their new files with old ones. They are basicly destroying the system to such a degree by overwriting any backup location that the system file protection mechanism gives up on trying to repair the system. But then other parts of the system don't work properly anymore like switching the HAL. Edited May 12 by Start Me Up
cov3rt Posted May 12 Author Posted May 12 Ok, i did some testing. I did fresh install using "HFSLIP120825_2K_20241225_13h08m" with standard pc option with ahci enabled in bios. after os install, i made sure all stuff installed, shutdown the pc safely, then on reboot, switched to "Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC" from "standard pc" in device manger, shut down pc safely, then on reboot caused bluescreen, and i also attempted fresh install with same iso and ide mode enabled in bios from beforehand, same bluescreen upon reboot after choosing "Advanced Configuration and Power Interface (ACPI) PC". I did not touch any system files. although the error apparently relates to storage controller according to chatgpt ( upon 1st attempt ), when the error happened again on 2nd method attempt, chatgpt then dialed it back to acpi. I wanted to upload a picture of the bluescreen but couldn't. If anyone knows how to upload within the max limit for msfn attachment, let me know. I've tried all sorts of methods but cant get it to work, either copy pasting from paint / google chrome copy image doesn't work or uploading directly the png file of 76 KB doesn't work either.
Start Me Up Posted May 13 Posted May 13 (edited) 10 hours ago, cov3rt said: when the error happened again on 2nd method attempt, chatgpt then dialed it back to acpi. What is the second method? Did you get 2 different blue screens? --- Anyway, I looked up what the version 5.00.2195.6921 of acpi.sys is. It is a test version not ment for productive use. It seems to include a quick hack to suppress the bluescreen "STOP:0x000000A5 (0x0000000B, …)" and only this one. It does not seem to fix any problem. It seems, as it is rather an attempt to get those affected by the issue somehow through the setup. But I could be wrong, since there is only little information available. My source for this information: BlackWingCat's blog post from 2018 --- Quote I wanted to upload a picture of the bluescreen but couldn't. Maybe this site works for you to store the image somewhere. Edited May 13 by Start Me Up
cov3rt Posted May 14 Author Posted May 14 (edited) dont know if the image will work and if it does, for how long, but i uploaded below. the error message on 2nd attempt was exactly the same. https://ibb.co/VpHXL30d Edited May 14 by cov3rt
Start Me Up Posted May 15 Posted May 15 (edited) I am not 100% sure, but I think that this bluescreen does not come from ACPI directly but rather from a third party disk driver which can't handle the switching of the HAL. My theory is, that you used some kind of 3rd party disk driver to access your hard disk. Once you switched from ACPI to Standard PC the disk driver can no longer find the hard disk or thinks it found a different one or Windows decided to use a different driver (probably it's default driver) than the one it used before because it now has a "brand new" hard disk. When switching the HAL then Windows usually thinks the user just unmounted nearly every device and mounted new devices in the system because these new devices were never enumerated by the new HAL before. So they must be something "new". I think I once had this problem with UniATA but that was a long time ago. I have a similar situation with the graphics driver I once wrote: When the user installs the driver and then switches the HAL, then Windows will use the default graphics driver (vga.sys) again so he has to install my driver once again. The driver files are already in the correct directories of Windows but Windows needs to be told that it should use my driver with the graphics circuit for a second time. This problem would not happen if the user used the default driver in the first place and installed my graphics driver after switching the HAL. Do you get the same bluescreen with a vanilla Windows 2000 SP4 iso and IDE selected in your BIOS? Edited May 15 by Start Me Up
cov3rt Posted May 15 Author Posted May 15 (edited) I have not tried the method with vanilla windows 2000 sp4 and ide in bios. I may only try that if there are no other feasible approach. You do bring up some good points on the HAL relating disk driver switching issue. I'm not sure, but it could possible relate to a "strange" problem where if i use ide mode bios in bios and then run setup with my custom iso versions, it gives the message in setup that it cannot detect one or more mass storage device controllers, or something along those lines, but after proceeding with install anyways by pressing enter ( and in this case, standard pc, then there is no problem, until of course i switch to acpi after os install ). i suspect the reason could be the way i slipstreamed blackwingcat's ahci / sata drivers in my own custom iso MIGHT have not been the "perfect" or "clean" method, but then again, it happens with blackwingcat's iso version as well, so it doesn't appear to be an issue with not slipstreaming correctly. Maybe i need to specify adapter in setup manually if using AHCI / slipstreamed iso package? Edited May 15 by cov3rt
cov3rt Posted May 16 Author Posted May 16 (edited) Ok i have now attempted with vanilla windows 2000 sp4 ( technically slightly modified, more on this below ) with ide mode in bios enabled and installing via standard pc. It did not give that message of not being able to detect one or more mass storage devices. after os install, i had later changed to acpi, shut down pc, on reboot, the bluescreen error was exactly the same. Note, the iso was modified slightly for automatic activation + slightly modified "usb.in_ " file in an attempt to get an external usb keyboard to work, because currently the internal keyboard's keys do not all work. the modified "usb.in_" did allow my external usb mouse to work and got rid of the error of "\SystemRoot\system32\DRIVERS\usbhub20.sys device driver could not be loaded. Error Status was 0xc0000034" ( which occurred when using unmodified vanilla windows 2000 sp4 ), but external usb keyboard did not work, it had mentioned code 31 error for it ( usb composite device ) in device manager after os install. Although the external usb mouse worked, it was very laggy / skipping badly when moving, requiring very delicate strides to get any functionality both during and after setup, so it wasn't fully working. disabling usb legacy mode and entering the os however got rid of the major lag / skipping issue. I did not modify the ISO in any other way. Edited May 16 by cov3rt
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