Right BIOS for Media Center?

[CoffeeFiend]

One gets the impression that many recent technological developments are intended to make it as hard (and/or as costly) as possible for viewers to record shows and watch them where and when it suits them best, as opposed to the programmers/broadcasters

Well, you still got it pretty easy compared to just about everybody. Around here, there is no Clear QAM at all and there is no CableCARD in sight so you can forget about HD cable on your PC altogether, solutions like Tivo don't work either, there is no solution to get DBS or DVB-* devices (like satellite providers) working with MCE either, and nice OTA HD (ATSC) feeds are just about non-existent either (there's only 1 channel here, and it's in french, and 95% of what it transmits is just upscaled 480i -- yuck). If we want HD cable, we're completely stuck with really crappy boxes from the cableco, and the only other option is staying with 480i junk (*shudder*)

Time was when you could just plug in the VCR and hit a couple of buttons

Well, we still can... But it was more like fighting with it to set the tape speed, times, durations, fiddling with tapes, etc (oh, and the quality is awful too)

devices called "DLNA media streamers" such as the ZyXEL DMA1100P. It seems to be associated with Media Player rather than Media Center

DLNA devices are supposed to be able to browse and play shared content that's stored on a Win7 PC (and yes, also stream music and such from WMP)

[cluberti]

Very interesting. I do vaguely remember reading something about this sort of thing a few weeks ago. It may have had to do with making movies available on Video On Demand at the same time as the DVD is released, but that didn't mean anything to me at the time because we hadn't yet lost our Clear QAM channels, so I kind of mentally filed it away.

Yes, a broadcast flag setting DRM could stop this, but this isn't necessarily what I'm talking about. CCI keeps you from being able to watch a show on any device other than the one receiving the content (unless you have DRM that meets the streaming criteria, which MCE does), and there are even bits in CCI that can keep you from time-shifting (aka, recording it on the device you're watching it on).

I'm looking at a "magbook," The Ultimate Guide to Windows 7, that gives some details on using an Xbox or other companies' hardware to stream recorded TV around the house. There's also a one-page chapter called "Streaming music and video," that discusses devices called "DLNA media streamers" such as the ZyXEL DMA1100P. It seems to be associated with Media Player rather than Media Center. Would this sort of device work for showing cable programs that we recorded onto the PC on other TV sets, or is it really more for playing music and DVDs? From what I read about it (see here), it looks like it might do the trick like an Xbox or other extender.

It's for DLNA media from Media Player, not Media Center. To play recorded content from TV on an MCE, you need an approved MCE extender (not just any DLNA device, it has to be *an MCE extender* (like the Xbox 360). You'll find the official ones will say "Extender for Windows Media Center" - the Xbox 360 (as mentioned) is an official extender (obviously), as are units from DLink and Linksys. Note the Linksys D2100 is no longer being made, so the D-Link DSM-750 and the Xbox 360 are the only ones you can buy new. Given that the D-Link has gotten some bad reviews (and it's still ~$400 USD new), I'd say the Xbox 360 is still the best extender out there (an Xbox 360 Elite can be had for about half that, and it does more).

[JorgeA]

CoffeeFiend,

Well, compared to ours, the situation you face really does s*ck. (Do you live in a major metropolitan area, or out among nature?) Gives us some perspective. Still, for us folks "south of the border," losing Clear QAM with no way to record other than through the cableco's equipment does represent a significant step backwards.

It's not a total loss, as the broadcast channels and their subchannels are still offered in the clear through the coax. Last week I used that vestigial functionality to do a couple of backup recordings for my parents, who were on vacation and wanted something to fall back on in case the power went out at their home while away. But it does mean that I can no longer record news or talk on the 24/7 news channels, or documentaries off the History Channel to play in my office while my wife is upstairs using the DVR television set.

Thanks for the clarification on the DLNA streamers. Sounds like they are not in fact an alternative to MCE extenders.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

cluberti,

I appreciate your giving me the scoop on these various issues! I checked out the reviews on the D-Link device over at amazon.com, and they are decidedly mixed.

Thanks to your help, we're approaching the point where my wife and I can sit down and start comparing numbers and features. But the "ease of the experience" is something that you're in a much better position to judge. In your experience, can an intelligent but not tech-oriented person use Windows Media Center, much like she would use a VCR or a DVR? Or does it really involve frequent tinkering "under the hood," so to speak?

I'm not averse to tinkering, but -- just as if she had a car where I had to recharge the battery or change the oil every few days -- if she had to keep asking me to fix or adjust the system to watch a movie, that would be a crippling handicap to the viability of Media Center in our home.

--JorgeA

[CoffeeFiend]

Do you live in a major metropolitan area, or out among nature?

Right in the center of a city of 1/2M people.

Still, for us folks "south of the border," losing Clear QAM with no way to record other than through the cableco's equipment does represent a significant step backwards.

I hear ya. Analog 480i recording is simply not an option in 2010 as far as I'm concerned. The quality is just too awful but there's not too many alternatives -- just the overpriced crappy DVR that only works with the TV it's plugged onto. Then again, I don't even have a HDTV yet (a half-decent LCD TV over 40" is still in the 4 figures here and we'd all be fighting over it anyway), also because we mainly watch stuff on our 23.x" and 24" LCDs monitors. So HD Cable not working with computers in any way makes it mostly worthless to me. Nevermind most of it is upscaled from a 480i source (and often stretched from 4:3 to fill the screen too) and overcompressed in the first place. My front neighbour spent $5000 on a nice setup and in most cases it's nigh impossible to tell his HD channels from the non-HD ones (yes, HD cable box, HDMI cables, etc -- it's the source that sucks). I'd love Blu-Ray-like quality but it's usually below DVD quality. I'd just be wasting money.

[cluberti]

Thanks to your help, we're approaching the point where my wife and I can sit down and start comparing numbers and features. But the "ease of the experience" is something that you're in a much better position to judge. In your experience, can an intelligent but not tech-oriented person use Windows Media Center, much like she would use a VCR or a DVR? Or does it really involve frequent tinkering "under the hood," so to speak?

Honestly, no, MCE is fine for anyone to use. However, so is TiVo, and the TiVo remote is much better than an MCE remote (yes, I'm nitpicking here, because honestly they're fairly equal in all other ways TV and recorded video). If you use Zune or iTunes, or a Windows Home Server, want to stream protected content, want to store and watch movies on the same device from your DVD collection, and want convergence in one "box", the MCE box + extenders is better. If you don't do any of these things (or can find ways to do these with TiVo), then that's the choice for you. TiVo is a *very* specialized device, and is *really* good at the limited stuff it does (do one thing, and do it better than anyone else). However, as a DVR + media machine, MCE trumps it in almost every other way, and watching TV on MCE isn't really much behind in experience either. I know you probably wanted an answer, and I danced, but you're getting into nuance here so I don't think I can really give you an "A" or "B" answer - you're gonna have to eventually decide which you want (use your gut too - read reviews, talk to people who use both, etc).

[JorgeA]

I hear ya. Analog 480i recording is simply not an option in 2010 as far as I'm concerned. The quality is just too awful but there's not too many alternatives -- just the overpriced crappy DVR that only works with the TV it's plugged onto. Then again, I don't even have a HDTV yet (a half-decent LCD TV over 40" is still in the 4 figures here and we'd all be fighting over it anyway), also because we mainly watch stuff on our 23.x" and 24" LCDs monitors. So HD Cable not working with computers in any way makes it mostly worthless to me. Nevermind most of it is upscaled from a 480i source (and often stretched from 4:3 to fill the screen too) and overcompressed in the first place. My front neighbour spent $5000 on a nice setup and in most cases it's nigh impossible to tell his HD channels from the non-HD ones (yes, HD cable box, HDMI cables, etc -- it's the source that sucks). I'd love Blu-Ray-like quality but it's usually below DVD quality. I'd just be wasting money.

CoffeeFiend,

Wow. That really is terrible. And you're right -- spending money on HD equipment is a total waste if there aren't any decent sources for it (and cable HD gets VERY expensive over time). Plus, I get the sense that analog signals actually look *worse* on an HD television than on an analog set. For us at least, the analog images appeared to look grainier or less detailed after we got our first HD set (a 192-pound Sony CRT, three years ago).

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

cluberti,

My wife just shocked me by basically giving the green light to do Windows Media Center. She said, "Let's be technologically advanced and be the first people we know who are doing this sort of thing."

It's O.K. that you didn't give me a straight "A" or "B" answer -- you gave me something better: enough information to guide our thinking based on our needs. One of the main reasons we've been looking into TiVo and MCE is the ability to watch recorded (and now, encrypted) programs on different TVs. But this business with the CCI byte puts MCE in the lead, since TiVo's system apparently isn't prepared to deal with that -- and we would *hate* to have to buy new equipment in a couple of years, considering that the other main reason for all this shopping is precisely to save money in the long run.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. As you suggest, we WILL ask around for more opinions, but you and CoffeeFiend have been a great help.

--JorgeA

[JorgeA]

cluberti,

I hope you don't mind my briefly reviving this thread, but I have three quick follow-up questions:

1) Have you tried the Moxi?

2) What do you think of their system, compared to TiVo and Windows Media Center (features, ease of use, reliability)?

3) Off the top of your head, do you know how well set up Moxi is to deal with the CCI byte/broadcast flag issue? (Based on this thread, MCE is and TiVo isn't.)

Hopefully these will be fairly easy to answer! I've been checking out the Moxi, and it looks like a strong candidate.

--JorgeA

[cluberti]

I've never tried Moxi, but I know of two people who have. Neither liked it after using it for awhile after using MCE (neither was a TiVo user previously), and I did find a few reviews (like this one on Engadget) that matched up pretty well to their concerns. Ultimately, the complaints were not about technical things (it did what it did well, as far as being a DVR) but UI things and inconsistencies - apparently even after a few months for one of the guys it was still hard to navigate and use easily.

As to #3, I have no idea.

[JorgeA]

Thanks, cluberti. The review you linked to was good to read.

I'll dig deeper into this. Will add the CCI byte issue to my list of questions for the Moxi folks (hoping all along that they'll have any idea what I'm talking about!).

--JorgeA

Edited June 7, 2010 by JorgeA