JorgeA

CharlotteTheHarlot, Yeah, that's an interesting case. It was proposed a couple of pages upthread, and @xpclient pointed out that it's an unchanged borrowing from Classic Shell with a couple of unrelated features tacked on. The single post with the fullest discussion is here. Thanks anyway! Further additions to the list are still welcome -- let MSFT and its apologists know how large and active the response has been to removing the Start Menu!! --JorgeA

Do not put words in my mouth. I neither think nor said nor implied any such thing. If you think that I thought, or said, or implied anything like that, that is your mistake. Once again, *sigh* I was talking about the perception of Linux being more stable than Windows. I have no opinion about one or the other OS on that issue. The fact that my new Win7 system crashed so soon after getting it was meant merely to illustrate the point about that perception. My own experiences (as described in a previous post) lead me to agree with @Tripredacus that: --JorgeA

I've said that if Microsoft doesn't make it so that I can avoid their Metro thing altogether, then when Windows 7 support runs out my screen will start looking like this. --JorgeA What distro is that? Mint MATE 14 was just released, has latest kernel to support Intel z77 platform. Here's my old Ubuntu, with only 8 GB memory, can run simultaneously Windows 2000, Windows 7 and Windows 8 Developer Preview. That was Zorin OS 5.2, based on Ubuntu Natty Narwhal. There's a more current version 6, based on a newer Ubuntu edition, but I haven't had the chance to try it out. What I like about it (and it's designed to be this way) is that it emulates the Windows experience, which is a plus for folks coming over from the Windows world. A lot of things are different of course, but there's an attempt to make the user experience feel less alien. --JorgeA

jaclaz, I understand what you're saying, but to do what you suggest would change the nature and the purpose of the list. My intention really was/is "simply" to offer a straight-up "menu" of Start Menus, like in a restaurant. Now, in most of the more recent additions to the list I have provided a very brief description of what that particular application supposedly does, so maybe I can go back to the early ones and give them, too, little descriptions like that. Combined with the sort of classification mentioned before (into Start Menus, Start Buttons, Metro bypassers), the list may become easier to use. But anything more detailed than one line, and then IMHO the list (no matter how well it's broken up into categories) starts to look forbidding. Alternatively, I can go back to the later entries and REMOVE the descriptions, so that no single item appears to get more attention, or to be favored over the others. That really would be my preference, if I had to choose one or the other approach. --JorgeA

That's why I also wrote (but it wasn't in the excerpt that you cited), [emphasis added]Actually, the more I work with Linux the less "better" it looks to me. I reinstalled Zorin OS 5.2 from the DVD the other day and went to update it, and there was very little to update. Apparently because it's Narwhal, it's no longer supported and the update site doesn't work anymore. This means that I would have to move over to Zorin 6. And then when support for that edition of Ubuntu (on which Zorin is based) runs out, I'll have to nuke everything and install a whole new edition of the OS because improvements and patches cease and the site closes within a couple of years?? Sheez, talk about the Microsoft "upgrade treadmill." Eleven years later and you can still install XP from scratch and make it current. So, unless Windows 8.1 or 9 allows me to disable Metro, when Win7 reaches end-of-life then I'll have a difficult choice to make. Which may still be Linux. BTW, I didn't set those Windows updates (including the graphics card driver) to install automatically, only to notify me so that then I could pick and choose. So in that sense I am even more guilty, but at least I can't be accused of "automatically" accepting whatever they send downstream. --JorgeA

I've said that if Microsoft doesn't make it so that I can avoid their Metro thing altogether, then when Windows 7 support runs out my screen will start looking like this. --JorgeA

I went on their website and that article is only the latest in a whole slew of fascinating stuff! --JorgeA

I think that Phenomic was making the point that his Linux system is less crash-prone than Windows is perceived to be. Why, I have a brand-new Windows 7 machine, and got my first BSOD one day into owning it when I tried to install the graphics card driver offered by Windows Update. --JorgeA

Have you actually READ WHO actually told that to the user? Hmm, I wonder if telling the guy that he'd need to buy a whole new PC in order to use Windows 8 Pro might be, not ignorance, but a deliberate sales tactic to push sales of new computers... --JorgeA

Yeah, that article is a treasure-trove of insights, including a number of points that have been made in this thread: @CharlotteTheHarlot has come up with another winning collection of Web articles. It'll be interesting to monitor Win8 sales -- the last couple of times I've been at my favorite big-box office supply store, the computer department was deserted, more so than in the final months that they offered Windows 7 systems. Anecdotal, but suggestive. --JorgeA

I just found this in another forum: Is that a bunch of hooey they told him? I thought that Win8 was supposed to be able to run on any PC that could run Vista or Win7. --JorgeA

You're right, scanning search results in Metro requires a lot more eye movement. In the regular Start Menu, everything's close together in one corner of the screen so you don't have to look around for the results of your search. --JorgeA

tomasz86, Can you contact the author and ask if the page will become available in English? The right-hand panel on the menu will probably show in the user's selected language (correct? ), but it would help if the installation instructions were available in "everybody's second language." --JorgeA

jaclaz, These are good points, but going into the project I knew that I wouldn't have the time to personally test all of these utilities, and that's why I invited reviews from people who have actually used them. Readers who have tried different Start Menu replacements, please write about your experiences, good or bad! I like the last idea you describe -- this list could serve another useful purpose by getting a programmer to think about how to avoid mere duplication, making his own Start Menu replacement do something new that the existing ones don't do. The list is definitely starting to get unwieldy, though, so I'm thinking of putting the entries in alphabetical order. Another way to reorganize the material would be to classify it by function: "Start Menus", "Start Buttons", "Metro bypassers." What do you think of this? --JorgeA

Hi Laurence, That's a neat little program. IMHO it deserves greater visibiiity by standing in its own thread. Here in this thread, it'll tend to get buried by the surrounding information/discussion. We can keep it here of course, but I'd suggest also posting it separately so that visitors to MSFN can see the concept as they're browsing through the forum. --JorgeA P.S. Your link led me to find a method by WinAero to natively boot to the Desktop without relying on third-party tools. Added to the list.

Here's an incisive critique of the Windows 8 UX from somebody who evidently gave it a lot of thought. And check out the concurring opinion by @xpclient three posts down. --JorgeA

Hi Laurence, Fantastic!! And when I went in, I saw there were already two positive replies. Spread far and wide... --JorgeA

Laurence, There haven't been any new objections to adding the Viva Start Menu. I was waiting to hear back from xpclient (or anybody else who wanted to weigh in) on the thoughts that I offered to what he said, but it's been several days so I guess we can go ahead and put that one on the list, too. Regarding whether MS will change their minds, maybe somebody will cut-and-paste our whole list and post it on a Microsoft forum page to embarrass them... --JorgeA

Paul Thurrott offers thoughts that may surprise some in his personal "verdict" on Windows 8: (Of course, it's not hard to think of computing "enthusiasts" who won't be coming anywhere near Windows 8...) And here he expresses frustration at the insertion of ads into Metro apps: --JorgeA

Here's another utility to bypass the Start Screen and boot straight to the Desktop. --JorgeA

8Start Button is a further metroish Start Menu, available in either a free or a more highly customizable paid version. --JorgeA

--JorgeA

MagicAndre1981 just posted on the "Ways to Bring Back the Start Menu/Button in Win8" thread with this article: Will Microsoft Restore the Start Menu to Windows 8? --JorgeA

MagicAndre, This is a very hopeful article! Ballmer would have to instruct JLG to revive the Start Button+Menu as a condition of getting to replace Sinofsky. If it's OK with you (and the mods), I'm going to link to this article over in the Deeper Impressions thread. --JorgeA

Thanks tomasz86, we'll keep an eye on it. I clicked on the link for "English" but it still came up in Polish so I can't interpret the installation instructions. Do you know if there is a language choice when installing StartForDesktop? --JorgeA