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alisdair

how does Vlite compress .wim files?

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fi you really want to modify and shrink, apply the WIM image to a formatted mounted VMDK partition, do the modifications and then capture it to a new WIM with the same settings as the initial one, or with max compression. This is the way to do it... mounting a WIM for R/W was not invented for major changes and it is very wasteful with compression and storage.

but how do i capture it but retain the version info like nuhi does?

i nkow he doesnt use imagex..... but in that case how does he do it?

im intrigued.

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what version info? AFAIK, ImageX and the WIMGAPI have identical functionality, the rest is up to you to script/code

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if you create a wim of vista using imagex and try and put it through vlite it says it has a version number of 0.0.0.0.0 there as when you create/modify the wim in vlite and run it through again you get 6.0.0.0.0 (or whatever it is)

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This is getting boring, go to the Vista forum and search or post, there are tons of guides and people willing to help, this is vLite forum, don't get me wrong.

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sorry if it bores you nuhi, to be honest so does your attitude.

Yes you have made a fantastic tool that i myself use

but your all as bad a m$ with your secretive behaviour, its not like you are making money out of the tool so why dont you just tell us how its done? but no its all about pride here and whos best. if you dont tell others how is this stuff going to develope? and the younger generation will not learn.

this convo was related to vlite because i was intrigued how its works.

any other forum and a mod such as yourself would have kindely moved this topic to the vista forum, but it would seem you do not have the time to do this.

would another mod kindely please move this so this conversation can carry on in the "right" forum.

i dont want to have to start this again without the background.

cheers,

Alisdair

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So you think if I go into the hassle of making something easy then I have to explain to you how I did it...think again pal. And you're welcome not to like me, I understand your feelings but I don't owe you anything.

To tell you the truth I don't even get what you want, you said you made it but it lost the version number, that's so funny to quit because of that...do you think that I have some secret to preserve that number...man...

If you don't find what you're looking for then post a new topic, this one is confusing to be moved.

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ok maybe I can clear the issue a bit for those reading this topic:

1) WIM technology is free, but closed source. Basically, using the technology for you needs is free, but there's no real documentation for how to build an API for this purpose. Thus, each one of us that programs a new layer of functionality based on WIM technology has to do it by experimenting on their own.

2) Let's say somebody were to make such an API to suit whatever needs they want with it... related or not to Vista. It's their decision alone to make it commercial, shareware, freeware, opensource or flush it down the drain, because it's their intellectual property. For example, I am retrofitting WIM technology for a specific purpose, other than Windows Setup, and that API will be a part of a patent request. Nuhi is also free to do whatever he likes with the vLite API just for the sole reason he made it.

3) There are a lot of programmers using WIM in their projects, because it's a great piece of software technology. vLite just happens to be popular. Nobody were to ask Symantec, for instance, to release parts of the code from Norton Ghost 12 just because it's based on WIM or other free stuff.

So, this is not just about some version number arguments here, it's about criticism on something to what nobody except the author has access. Experimentation was needed to make vLite possible and there is no way to predict for one individual how it's software would react in conditions that were not taking into consideration before that software was made. That's the entire point of the label "for personal use". It means if you are not happy with it, do something better yourself. Few or no programmers, even if you pay them, would have the nerves to make modifications or explain stuff to anyone regarding their intellectual property.

And I say these because I have my own stuff and I'd react exactly the same.

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But my point is if nuhi was to die tomorrow who would carry on the project? you couldnt you would have to start again.

Nuhi is there any reason you dont have a team behind this because i feel the project would be a lot more up to speed by now?

For example - if i was to say how you could delete manual install and upgrade. i know you probably know how to do this and that it saves you 70mb i could work on that while you work on the others/development

in regards to your above example of Symantec my point would be that is a commercial venture, vlite isnt so what is the problem with people knowing how it works? it doesnt necessarely mean you can make a better one,

for example here - car companies dont stop you looking under the bonnet or behind the panels even inside the engine, nor do they stop you taking things apart. hell they dont even stop you making your own cars....

but not many do go make their own cars and many companies have fallen trying too, releasing your software/bring in others to help develope would make it stronger and bring out competition as long as they credit you whats the problem?

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in regards to your above example of Symantec my point would be that is a commercial venture, vlite isnt so what is the problem with people knowing how it works?

The problem is that people out there think that just because he releases good software for free he has to release the source and tell everyone everything he has learned from his own project. He does not owe anyone anything and yes... he did it in his sparetime so if someone comes asking "hey, tell me this and that" it's not his job to answer this. It's his decision and if he feels not to release source or technical info it's just his decision. You will have to accept this.

greets

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in regards to your above example of Symantec my point would be that is a commercial venture, vlite isnt so what is the problem with people knowing how it works?

The problem is that people out there think that just because he releases good software for free he has to release the source and tell everyone everything he has learned from his own project. He does not owe anyone anything and yes... he did it in his sparetime so if someone comes asking "hey, tell me this and that" it's not his job to answer this. It's his decision and if he feels not to release source or technical info it's just his decision. You will have to accept this.

greets

you see you are now making it sounds like im trying to make him?

IM NOT!

i know its not his job to answer everything, but if he can it would be appreciated.

jeeeeesh you guys here at msfn like to get down eachovers throats dont you?

my point to the above is that he would have learnt from others work, and others should do the same from his work. everyone has to learn somewhere and you cannot learn anything from nothing. if m$ hadnt of made the appropriate driver and told people how to use them this software wouldnt have existed. end of.

Edited by alisdair

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No, you've got me wrong. It's ok to ask. But if he decides not to get into detail it should be accepted. I did not feel like (not only) you did so in this thread. One more thing... I'm not a MSFN-Fanatic. It's a good board but I don't identify myself with it. In fact I don't even have windows as my main system ;).

Now calm down everybody...

cheers

Edited by Gladiac

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sorry if it bores you nuhi, to be honest so does your attitude.

Yes you have made a fantastic tool that i myself use

but your all as bad a m$ with your secretive behaviour, its not like you are making money out of the tool so why dont you just tell us how its done? but no its all about pride here and whos best. if you dont tell others how is this stuff going to develope? and the younger generation will not learn.

this convo was related to vlite because i was intrigued how its works.

Agreed

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in regards to your above example of Symantec my point would be that is a commercial venture, vlite isnt so what is the problem with people knowing how it works?

So if Nuhi made vLite commercial, it would be okay? What if that is Nuhi's plan when vLite is a fully functional product out of beta? He has spent a lot of time and effort on it (and on nLite), and he certainly deserves to harvest the fruits of his work. I myself would not hesitate to buy it (If it of course came with good support, updates and was fairly priced).

Speaking of which: OMG! WHEN IS NEXT VERSIONz!11111!

EDIT: Cool. I made my MSFN-account before Nuhi. Give me cake!

Edited by shabador

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I mean he could be using parts of his code for commercial stuff, like in gaming technology... if he were to release the source code maybe somebody else would do that and get all the benefits...

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Oh dear - how did such a rant start when nuhi already gave alisdair his answer in his first post?

@alisdair, imagex will always increase the size of an image when you commit changes (no matter how much you removed) as it leaves the removed files unreferenced in the image, taking up space - additionally, there is an overhead (say, 5mb for a 650mb image) which I assume is the rewritten file system. I guess the reason for this (apart from additional complexity) is because files can be shared between multiple images in the same file.

As nuhi said in his initial post, to remove the unreferenced files and make the space savings you need to rebuild the image. The way to do this is to export the modified image to a new one - that way imagex only exports the files it needs to. You can achieve the same result by capturing the image again but there is no need for that.

Type 'imagex /export /?' for help on the command, the very last line gives an example of exporting a single image (no. 1) to a new wim and renaming it in the process. If you don't want to rename then leave that part out. Other options listed can be used to maximise compression, mark as bootable (for winpe) etc.

imagex /export d:\imaging\data.wim 1 d:\imaging\newfile.wim "Exported Image"

Btw, if you have multiple images you can export them all by specifying * as the image number. I assume the individual images will be rebuilt but I have not tried it this way. Bear in mind that removing files from one image will not result in space savings if they are still referenced in another (and you export both to the new wim). Also, most windows files have backups within the windows\winsxs folder so if you delete (for example) the "%programfiles%\Microsoft Games" folder then commit and export, you still won't save space as the duplicates still exist in the image.

I've done this multiple times and never had any hastle with it. One example of how filesystem bloat occurs is adding new updates to a wim image. With each commit you gain an overhead so if you've made a lot of commits then you might find your 700mb image can be reduced to 670mb just by exporting it without making any changes.

nuhi saves space exactly as above only using the api m$ provides. There's no big secret, he could have used imagex but why bother when the same functionality is wrapped up nicely into a dll.

Jamie

Edited by jamieo

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