heatsink on the same CPU being different?

[bonestonne]

okay, so i've got a pair of Pentium II Xeon processors, 450MHz with 512k L2 cache.

this is a picture of the heatsink:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/bonestonne/new computer/IMG_0763.jpg

the fins are going vertically.

this is a picture of a Pentium II Xeon rated at 550MHz with 1Mb L2 cache

http://www.freebsddiary.org/images/xeon-cpu-installed1.jpg

the heatsink on that has the fins going horizontally.

that would cause a big difference it cooling wouldn't it?

i've gotten the cooling as best as i can, like this:

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/bon...er/IMG_0792.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/bon...er/IMG_0790.jpg

http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g142/bon...er/IMG_0791.jpg

the tunnel is off the side of the case, it was there for newer computers, to duct air to the heatsinks...since i took it off because it didn't fit with the Pentium IIs, i'm using it to duct air straight to the processors, and its doing a really good job at it, the processors are cooler than they were before, even overclocked to the max. the only change i've made is putting a stronger fan in the duct, the clear one was helping, but i had a faster one lying around that is doing more.

but the difference in heatsinks is probable whats keeping me from cooling these efficiently isn't it?

[IcemanND]

the fin direction will be different depending upon the vendors design of the case. The fins should go in the same direction as the air flow for best cooling.

[bonestonne]

well, both my heatsinks are the same, but its something i keep getting arguements over.

with my heatsinks with vertical fins, its easiest to cool from above, as the air goes between the fins. cooling from the side is obstructed by the wider fins near the middle, causing the heat to just build up.

am i right?

i plan to add another 80mm fan to the top of the system now that i know how its going to cool. i don't have any 40mm fans to use as DRM fans as the stock cooling was, but how i have it works...but my idea of how the heatsinks are designed are correct right? cooling from the sides is harder than from above...its kinda hard as the processors are so hot, but its working.

[IcemanND]

It all depends upon your case. and the design of your processor support brackets. Use what works best for you.

[nmX.Memnoch]

The horizontal ones were a more efficient design because the air could be blown in from the front, across the heatsinks and then out the back of the case. With the vertical design you're just pushing warm air back down on the CPUs. Your cooling solution still isn't cooling the front CPU that much.

We have several retired dual and quad PIII Xeon systems at work...I'll try to get some pictures today so you can see how they were intended to be setup.

[bonestonne]

yea. i've got my processors basically as cool as i can get them...i think i figured out how speedfan is displaying the temps on this.

the Local Temp is actually the temp or the heatsink itself, and the Remote temp is the internal temp of the processor.

yesterday i had the coolest boot i've ever had, both heatsinks were 26C, and CPU1 was 59C, CPU2 was 62. at the moment, i've each heatsink at 33C, and the internals at 66C...cooler than ever before.

i'll have pictures when i'm done tweaking, but this might be final.

and thanks in advance nmX.Memnoch, the dual and quad PIII xeons wont be that far from this, it'll be worth a look

[nmX.Memnoch]

and thanks in advance nmX.Memnoch, the dual and quad PIII xeons wont be that far from this, it'll be worth a look

Actually....

The cases are purpose built so the cooling solutions are designed specifically for the CPU and RAM arrangement. I got some of the pictures today and I need to try to get a few more tomorrow. Hopefully I can post them tomorrow night...along with some pictures of some new systems I'm installing.

[bonestonne]

yea, after the Xeon workstations were released, companies started creating new cases for it that were designed to keep their temps incredibly low. my thermal plates are under management, but the overheat is when the temp of the CPU goes above 90C behind the plastic, which you wouldn't normally notice at first. the best way to to give strong side airflow so that some will make its way up into the CPU. they're like hard drives, where just a little airflow will go a long way, but getting it to go where it needs to be is the hard part.

[nmX.Memnoch]

yea, after the Xeon workstations were released, companies started creating new cases for it

Hehe...no, what I mean is that these are servers. Basically the motherboard layout was decided on and then the case, along with cooling solution, were designed around that layout. There are plastic shrouds, metal guides, multiple hot-swappable fans, etc built into the case around the CPU and RAM. Even the PCI/PCI-X slots in those systems have plastic dividers between them forcing airflow over those cards.

Plus the fact that we keep them in an environmentally controlled room that stays about 65F doesn't hurt.

[TravisO]

Well you want the fins pointing in a direction that allows air to pass (iow, vertical), otherwise you're blocking air flow. If you want better cooling, get a larger fn, a 20mm could output a huge amount of CFM (cubc feet/minute) pretty quietly.

[bonestonne]

until i get a good amout of dough to blow, my cooling is staying how it is. i'm debating on 3 Antec Tri-Cool fans or 3 Aerocool fans...120mm...both fans that i looked at move similar volumes of air, the Antec at 79CFM and the Aerocool at 82.3 or something around there. i'm opting for then Antec, and getting red ones to give a pretty sweet look on a mesh front panel.

yea, i know what you're talking about with the cases nmX.Memnoch, but those designs didn't come out until after the workstation Xeons came out because heating became more and more of an issue with the 3d design programs of the time, and then they realized the servers weren't doing quite that well...thats also about the time the Pentium III 700/100/2Mb came out...unless there was a faster clocked one with 2mb of L2 cache, i think that was the fastest Xeon of its time, which evolved into the pentium 4 core with minor changes [mostly the switch to socket from slot2]. i think i might have been a little out of it, i thought i read of a 1Ghz processor with the 2mb L2...in theory a pair of those would fly at their max clock of 1.7Ghz...but i need to re-check that, i dont think i read the L2 cache right...by the time the CPUs made it to 1ghz, a larger sized cache wasn't as important, because it was accessed faster.

[nmX.Memnoch]

yea, i know what you're talking about with the cases nmX.Memnoch, but those designs didn't come out until after the workstation Xeons came out because heating became more and more of an issue with the 3d design programs of the time, and then they realized the servers weren't doing quite that well...thats also about the time the Pentium III 700/100/2Mb came out...unless there was a faster clocked one with 2mb of L2 cache, i think that was the fastest Xeon of its time, which evolved into the pentium 4 core with minor changes [mostly the switch to socket from slot2]. i think i might have been a little out of it, i thought i read of a 1Ghz processor with the 2mb L2...in theory a pair of those would fly at their max clock of 1.7Ghz...but i need to re-check that, i dont think i read the L2 cache right...by the time the CPUs made it to 1ghz, a larger sized cache wasn't as important, because it was accessed faster.

Actually, one of the cases I'm getting pictures of was originally a 400MHz PII Xeon box...which came out way before the PIII Xeon 700.

The fastest PIII Xeon with 2MB L2 is 900MHz. I have two servers at work that are quad PIII Xeon 900/100/2MB. You have to be careful with those though...there are two different versions; one that is low voltage and one that's "regular". We got the "regular" ones when we upgraded the server and ended up returning them for the low-voltage models. The "fastest" PIII Xeon that was released was a 1GHz with a 133MHz FSB and 256K cache. All of the PIII Xeon's that have a 133MHz FSB only have 256K cache. Additionally, if I'm not mistaken those can only be run in dual configurations, not quad. Personally, I'd take a pair of 900/100/2MB Xeons over the 1GHz model though. To be honest, I'm not sure what made those PIII Xeon 133MHz FSB 256K L2 versions any better than a regular PIII with a 133MHz FSB and 256K L2. I know they sure were a lot more expensive when they first came out.

Also, there were significantly more changes to the Xeon going from the Slot 2 PIII models to the socketed NetBurst (P4) based models than just moving to the socket. It is true, however, than the PII (and of course the PIII) CPUs and their Xeon variants were evolutions of the Pentium Pro CPUs. The Pentium Pro, in my opinion, was one of the most highly under rated CPUs ever. Those things were a lot better than people gave them credit for.

BTW, if you're looking for cheap CPU upgrades for your Xeon box, StarMicro carries pulls fairly cheap. "Pulls" sounds like what it is...the CPUs were pulled from old workstations or servers before they were recycled/destroyed/etc. They carry the PIII Xeon 550/100/2MB for $24US each!

http://www.starmicro.net/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=54

Just be sure to check your motherboard for compatibility. Since you're currently running PII Xeon 400's they do have the PII Xeon 450/100/512K for $13US each. They do carry heatsinks for them as well...but you never know which model heatsink you're getting from them until it arrives. I've had to take a Dremel to a few of my older test/development servers to make the heatsinks fit! Nothing major...just some plastic trimming, but still.

[spidercop]

if its heat u wanna get rid off then get sum termal paste between the cpu en the heatsink most of those old cpu dont use thermal material between the cpu en heatsink en most pc's used passive cooling en if e cpu used thermal solution in most of them it woud be thermal pads used thermal paste is much beter

[bonestonne]

oh yea...i tried the thermal grease idea...if i wiped it all off, you wouldn't notice at all...my processors are just insanely hot...i'm looking into a pair of 900MHz pentium III's with the 2Mb L2 cache...run like the wind with those things.