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Thunderbolt 2864

Stop services permanantely

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But for some reason my NETGEAR adapter in the other machine can't seem to find networks correctly nor connect all the time if I use wzcsvc.

I'd be willing to bet that had you left your install alone as a normal Windows XP install, you wouldn't be having these issues. You disabled or removed a needed service, you can't figure out why, and now you're blaming the OS for your mistakes. If people would just leave Windows XP's services alone and not try to "tweak" them, they wouldn't have any issues with their software or hardware.

Actually you are just jumping into your guns again.

I've been on people's PCs where certain Wireless Network Configuration Utilities would work better than the Windows one, sometimes worse. And by better I mean pick up networks that the others just wouldn't connect to.

It's not always people "tweaking".

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But for some reason my NETGEAR adapter in the other machine can't seem to find networks correctly nor connect all the time if I use wzcsvc.

I'd be willing to bet that had you left your install alone as a normal Windows XP install, you wouldn't be having these issues. You disabled or removed a needed service, you can't figure out why, and now you're blaming the OS for your mistakes. If people would just leave Windows XP's services alone and not try to "tweak" them, they wouldn't have any issues with their software or hardware.

That has absolutely nothing to do with it! The manufacturer's drivers and program work better, as I would expect it to. Just think about how Windows, with its generic wireless configuration utility, can handle all wireless adapters equally well? It can't. That's why manufacturers provide their own configuration utility.

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You haven't proven otherwise. :)

Bottom line of this thread is leave your services alone. Don't "tweak" your system by messing with the services.

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Now, what do you think your customers do? They won't know to go in and configure their service back. More likely than not, they will either call you and complain since it was you/your shop who "fixed" their computer. Since it would be your shop causing the problem, do you think they'd return to your shop in the future if you broke their computer by tweaking it? No, they won't be back; and believe me, they'll tell their friends too.

As much as you may think you're helping them, you're actually hindering them and their computer experience. While they may think it's a problem with the OS, it was actually the one who disabled the services which should be left alone.

None of this is flaming dude, it's common sense and the truth. :P

It's only the truth from the standpoint of a MS fanboy.

All that stuff you're spouting is rubbish. Common sense

says that more services uses more resources. Anything

other than that is either a lie or plain foolish.

Hindering their computer experience is accomplished by

allowing you or MS to decide which needless services

run continually in the background. The operating system

is not the reason for the computer but a tool to host the

real reason for the computer.

The supported software and/or hardware.

Clipbook > A security risk to have your clipboard shown to whomever.

Computer Browser > totally unnecessary even in a network

Distributed Link Tracking Service > Without a domain it's useless.

Error Reporting Service > Great if you want YOUR computer reporting everything to MS

Indexing Service > A resource hog that does nothing to speed access to anything

Internet Connection Firewall > A worthless POS. Zonealarm Free is 10x better.

Messenger Service > Go ahead and tell everyone that this one is good??

Net Logon > Most average users do not need this service.

NT LM Security Support > Using telnet great, otherwise a waste.

Performance Logs / Alerts > What average user even knows what this does, or cares.

QOS RSVP > Average users don't use QOS but Windows Mgmt starts it anyway. Turn it off.

Remote Access etc, etc > Again the average user won't use this. If you want to, your problem.

Server Service > If you don't have a network, File and Print sharing over TCP is a really bad idea.

UPNP > Security risk on any computer.

SSDP > Only needed for UPNP.

TCP/IP Netbios Helper > Netbios over TCP has always been a risk. Everybody except MS says so.

Telnet > 90% of MS users don't have a clue what it is or how to use it.

Uninteruptable Power Supply > If you don't have one it's useless.

Upload Manager > No network, not necessary.

Windows Time > Get a F**king watch. Turn this off.

Maybe you should stop telling people to do something just because MS said so.

Your computer security or "computing experience" is not high on their list.

Their profit, IP and desire to control everything you do online is their agenda.

I hope this doesn't jeopardize your quarterly MS stock divident.

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Why don't people show some facts to support their opinions instead of telling others that they're posting "garbage" or being "fanboys".

@SunnyB - Most of the services you mentioned are set to manual or disabled. The ones that are set to automatic don't do that much harm when left running.

And for the record, Error Reporting Service only sends information when you permit it to.

Remote Access Connection Manager is required to dial into VPN connections.

NetBIOS is only a security risk if you don't have a decent password on your computer accounts. Period. People who leave their systems without passwords are usually the people who complain about that one.

Do you really think that Microsoft is "just" about profit, IP and the desire to control everything? Why do you keep using Windows then? There are several other options for you to use other than Windows. OSX, Linux, Unix - they're all alternatives for you to use. Many people go about their daily lives on these OSes without any troubles.

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Sunny B,

Thanks,,,,,you're a breath of fresh air.

It's only the truth from the standpoint of a MS fanboy.

All that stuff you're spouting is rubbish. Common sense

says that more services uses more resources. Anything

other than that is either a lie or plain foolish.

Hindering their computer experience is accomplished by

allowing you or MS to decide which needless services

run continually in the background. The operating system

is not the reason for the computer but a tool to host the

real reason for the computer.

The supported software and/or hardware.

Clipbook > A security risk to have your clipboard shown to whomever.

Computer Browser > totally unnecessary even in a network

Distributed Link Tracking Service > Without a domain it's useless.

Error Reporting Service > Great if you want YOUR computer reporting everything to MS

Indexing Service > A resource hog that does nothing to speed access to anything

Internet Connection Firewall > A worthless POS. Zonealarm Free is 10x better.

Messenger Service > Go ahead and tell everyone that this one is good??

Net Logon > Most average users do not need this service.

NT LM Security Support > Using telnet great, otherwise a waste.

Performance Logs / Alerts > What average user even knows what this does, or cares.

QOS RSVP > Average users don't use QOS but Windows Mgmt starts it anyway. Turn it off.

Remote Access etc, etc > Again the average user won't use this. If you want to, your problem.

Server Service > If you don't have a network, File and Print sharing over TCP is a really bad idea.

UPNP > Security risk on any computer.

SSDP > Only needed for UPNP.

TCP/IP Netbios Helper > Netbios over TCP has always been a risk. Everybody except MS says so.

Telnet > 90% of MS users don't have a clue what it is or how to use it.

Uninteruptable Power Supply > If you don't have one it's useless.

Upload Manager > No network, not necessary.

Windows Time > Get a F**king watch. Turn this off.

Maybe you should stop telling people to do something just because MS said so.

Your computer security or "computing experience" is not high on their list.

Their profit, IP and desire to control everything you do online is their agenda.

I hope this doesn't jeopardize your quarterly MS stock divident.

God I do love it when someone with some intelligence (and cahones) steps forward and makes themselves known. I'm sure getting tired of the "MS Party Line".

I'm sure that people with problems or questions don't come here for that.

I've been shutting down those Services on my own PC and the PC's of my hundreds of customers for some time now, with NO problems ever being recorded. There are even a few more that can be shut down, like for Granny Whipple who only plays solitair and eMails her kids. I used to do it all by hand in Services.msc. I found that putting them into a batch file was more time efficient.

My success is measured by how happy my customers are with a PC that runs 100% or more better than it did 'out of the box'. Disabling redundant Services is only a small part of the total package, but a significant part none the less. A very Deep Cleaning of the HD followed by a Defrag is another important part of the process.

Anyone who says that I need Error Reporting Service, for instance, to report BSOD's, is one pixx poor computer tech. In the several years since I upgraded to XP-Pro, I've not had one BSOD. I wasn't aware that XP could do that. (Can it?). An XP system would have to be in such bad condition to do that......well, I can't even imagine it. If one of my customers ever got a BSOD, you can bet your britches that they'd be on the phone to me in a heartbeat. I've never yet had such a call. Even my 98 and 98/SE customers don't have those kind of problems. :no:

My PC's run without BSOD's and lockups. That's the way XP was designed and if run properly, that's the way they will act.

BSOD's! Bah,,,,humbug!

Error Reporting Service....Bah,,,, humbug!

thanks Sunny B., you're a breath of fresh air! :thumbup:yes:

Andromeda43 ;)

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God I do love it when someone with some intelligence (and cahones) steps forward and makes themselves known.

Yeah, I do too! Thanks Zxian for helping verify that the information provided is indeed accurate and correct. :)

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Since you both seem to want to ignore a simple fact.

A car with 100 HP ands it weight is 2000 pounds is only going to go so fast.

A car with 100 HP and it weight is 1900 pounds is going to go faster.

A computer works the same way the more the CPU has to process the slower it going to seem.

Code is alway process one line at a time, to produce the illision of every thing happening at once.

To assume that MS configures Windows to run at it peak performance for everyone computer might

be correct if we all had the same computer. Since we do not all have the same computer then the

settings are only a genaral seting. I will agree that there are some services that should not be touched

but if the service is not needed then there is no foul in turning it off.

That is up to the individual person to decide if they need that service, and not Tarun or Zxain to decide.

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I have to chime in on this - usually I leave this one alone (along with the page file debates), but I just can't leave it alone (and I have absolutely no idea why :)):

Clipbook > A security risk to have your clipboard shown to whomever

- It is possible to be a security risk on an unsecured/non-firewalled machine, but do be aware that f you disable this service you will not be able to use the Clipbook Viewer to see exactly whay you've got on your clipboard. Not a necessary service, but some people do use it (I personally do, as I do most of my day-to-day work using the clipboard).

Distributed Link Tracking Service > Without a domain it's useless.

- Possibly untrue - if you have NTFS formatted volumes on your local PC, this service is useful if you want the system to automatically track links (shortcuts) to files and folders. When a file that is linked to is moved, the DLTS modifies any shortcuts on the system to reflect the new location of the file or folder. Again, not necessary, but comes in handy for people who may have shortcuts to files or folders that may move frequently. See KB312403 if you want an overview of DLTS.

Error Reporting Service > Great if you want YOUR computer reporting everything to MS

- The sentiment in that statement seems a bit anti-Microsoft, but it is technically true that this service does send data to Microsoft about the error (almost always due to an application crash). Obviously no identifiable data is sent to Microsoft with the data gathered by WER (it's just a .cab file of the .dmp files dropped into a bucket matching other errors of the same or similar type and application), but I can understand people who feel this way about the OS sending data to Microsoft. There is an unintended side-effect, however, in that disabling the service disables all error reporting in the OS, so if an application crashes you will not be notified of the contents of the actual error by default, and in Windows Vista Dr. Watson's user front-end is completely gone, meaning you will have a harder time troubleshooting a failing or faulty application. Some people may need this, some may not. I'm guessing you don't, but the data sent to Microsoft is actually very good at helping determine when there's a big problem with an application or service, especially if it's a Microsoft app or service.

Indexing Service > A resource hog that does nothing to speed access to anything

- By default, no. However, if you configure the indexing service to index your files and folders, searches using the built-in OS search tools are much faster (as the search will scan the catalogs the indexing service keeps first, rather than searching the disk itself for files and folders, which is almost always much slower). This one is a trade-off between resources and functionality, and disabling it does provide some performance benefit in returned memory (if address space is mapped to RAM) in return for slower system searches.

Internet Connection Firewall > A worthless POS. Zonealarm Free is 10x better.

- It's better than nothing, but replacing it until Vista's two-way firewall is still probably a good idea for increased security (although 3rd party firewalls will take up at least as much resources as the built-in firewall).

NT LM Security Support > Using telnet great, otherwise a waste.

- There are a few reasons why this service might be required outside of a domain environment, but for most home users this service doesn't do them any good. Since it's only an interface to the kerberos and NTLM functionality of kernel security, disabling this service doesn't bring any noticeable performance benefits (the core OS security providers are still enabled, this is just a SSPI to NTLM for network communications where a provider is present).

Performance Logs / Alerts > What average user even knows what this does, or cares.

- Anyone who uses perfmon or WMI to gather performance-related data from a machine will need this service. It's best set to manual (the default), as it isn't loaded if not needed - disabling provides no benefit over manual due to the fact that the underlying performance libraries still load, run, and gather data, you are simply no longer able to gather data from those libraries.. If you do use WMI or perfmon to gather data from a performance library, it'll fail with this service disabled.

Remote Access etc, etc > Again the average user won't use this. If you want to, your problem.

- Anyone who uses PPTP or L2TP VPN tunnels using the Microsoft PPTP or L2TP providers (not a 3rd party IPSEC solution) will need this service. Again, the underlying providers still load, you just can't use them with the service disabled, so little benefit performance-wise to disable.

Windows Time > Get a F**king watch. Turn this off.

- If using Kerberos for any reason, do not disable this service as Kerberos relies on accurate system time (also domain users shouldn't disable this for the similar reasons in domain logon requirements). Otherwise, yes, but remember that the w32time binaries are only using resources when actually being called to sync time, so no performance benefit for most of the day to disable this.

For the most part, I understand the views on these services. However, I have to second (or third, or fourth, whatever :)) what most people are saying about supposed performance benefits in disabling these services - for the most part, there is none.

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cluberti: and i think it's a good thing you "chimed in". Disabling a major amount of services (and functionnality going with it) might lead to a small performance increase. I have no problems with that part, but assuming "nobody uses this stuff" when it's someone else's PC... I use most of these services that "nobody uses" almost everyday. And lots of the saying "this is useless" is often because someone doesn't understand what something does, like the indexing service, it REALLY does speed up searches dramatically when proper indexes are created. It's very handy, and the indexing service can be called/used by other apps (like a web client like I use, or those newfangled desktop search apps), or Windows Time (kerberos needs good time sync, or SMB is going to be slow like a dog), performance logs/alerts? Routinely use that. Same for remote registry, etc.

Advanced users usually know what they don't use or need, but guessing for someone else...

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Why don't people show some facts to support their opinions instead of telling others that they're posting "garbage" or being "fanboys".

@SunnyB - Most of the services you mentioned are set to manual or disabled. The ones that are set to automatic don't do that much harm when left running.

And for the record, Error Reporting Service only sends information when you permit it to.

Remote Access Connection Manager is required to dial into VPN connections.

NetBIOS is only a security risk if you don't have a decent password on your computer accounts. Period. People who leave their systems without passwords are usually the people who complain about that one.

Do you really think that Microsoft is "just" about profit, IP and the desire to control everything? Why do you keep using Windows then? There are several other options for you to use other than Windows. OSX, Linux, Unix - they're all alternatives for you to use. Many people go about their daily lives on these OSes without any troubles.

Actually, I do think MS is out for nothing but profit and control,

disregarding the end-user in all but the most notable cases.

Microsoft advertises Windows as if it were the end-all, do-all

of computing software when in reality it is only a glorified DOS

who's primary utility is to offer an underlying system for running

real software and I'm not just talking about multimedia programs.

The alternative I chose is to use the OS I need and change

or modify it to act the way I want it to act. Like disabling

unused or unnecessary options or services that are annoying,

cumbersome, security risks or resource heavy.

1. Most services that are set to manual will be started by

other MS services even if they are not needed or wanted.

QOS RSVP is one example.

2. The average user doesn't even know about the Error Reporting Service

much less know how to restrict it's scope.

3. Average users don't have multiple computers or have any

need to use a VPN connection which negates the need for Remote Access.

4. Netbios has always been a security risk. The people who

complain about that one are the average Joe computer user

that has no idea that it can be disabled.

I'll bet big dollars that 75% of all computer users

have no idea that they have multiple ports opened and

listening on the internet, just waiting to be exploited.

Ports 25, 123, 135, 445, 500, 137, 139, 1389 plus countless others.

Most of these listening ports can be closed by disabling their

respective services. Even if it saves no resources it serves

to close unnecessary, exploitable ports on the internet.

That in itself is reason enough to disable them.

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Actually, I do think MS is out for nothing but profit and control

That really should be a surprise to nobody. Microsoft is a corporation, their sole purpose is to make money - much like every other company out there. This is called capitalism. Control is about keeping your users, again, that's something a LOT of companies do everyday. Nothing new here.

Microsoft advertises Windows as if it were the end-all, do-all of computing software

That's called MARKETING! Again, pretty much all companies out there do just the same, trying not so much to sell you a product, but a lifestyle or such, playing with your emotions and all. Again, that shouldn't be news to anyone.

when in reality it is only a glorified DOS

Exactly! Just like a space shuttle is just a glorified pair of flip-flops or other such primitive means of transportation. And the mona lisa is just a painting... </sarcasm> All modern OS'es to FAR more than this (like memory management and paging, handling various filesystems, IPC, provide various network stacks, come with several services/daemons and clients for them, have multimedia subsystems, do scheduling, secure stuff at various levels, comes with basic apps/utilities, etc - a VERY VERY long list). But that being said, there's nothing wrong with disabling stuff on your own PC that your positively certain you're not going to use.

On a side note... Wow! IE7 is such a buggy pile of ****!

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Obviously no identifiable data is sent to Microsoft with the data gathered by WER (it's just a .cab file of the .dmp files dropped into a bucket matching other errors of the same or similar type and application), but I can understand people who feel this way about the OS sending data to Microsoft.
Memory dumps and "no identifiable data" don't belong together. I doubt they would only dump the code section and not include the data section as well. There is definitely identifiable data in there, I can open any dump with a hex editor and look through and find filenames, text, and other indications of what was going on at the time. It's like preserved in time. M$ probably needs that information to determine the error, but then again calling it "no identifiable data" is just wrong and done for the sense of making the users feel oversecure about their privacy.

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That really should be a surprise to nobody. Microsoft is a corporation, their sole purpose is to make money - much like every other company out there. This is called capitalism. Control is about keeping your users, again, that's something a LOT of companies do everyday. Nothing new here.

This topic has gone way off topic, with nothing more than throat-gagging misinformed, narrow-minded and prejudiced points of view, as to be expected. Not all companies out there are in it for money. There are a lot of companies that are in it for the people they service. Anyway, if you don't like Windows, than stop using and complaining about the **** OS. This is getting absolutely retarded! They are just Services! If you have 1-2 GBs of RAM, what do you care?! Just leave them the hell alone? Let go of your need for absolute control and dominance! Sounds like Microsoft, doesn't it? Well, whether we like to admit it or not, we have that in common, don't we? The road this topic has taken is just pitiful and it irritates me.

*Goes to do something actually worth talking about once it's done*

Edit - Cluberti, nice post, though. :)

Edited by Jeremy

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You know what amazes me... people that spend hours fiddling with services. It's a complete waste of time, the only thing it does is reduce functionality.

When people mess around with services, I picture them buying car then opening up the hood and throwing away different parts.

The logic goes like this:

"Airbag Computer? Hell, I don't need the computer as long as I keep the airbags installed." *rips it out*

"Oh ABS Controller? I dunno what that is, I guess it's not important." *rips it out*

"I need more space for gas!" *rips out rear seats and expands gas tank to fill now available space*

"Well, I only brake 1% of the distance I travel when I drive, so I could go without brakes." *rips out brake calipers, discs, pads, shoes, drums, brake lines, master cylinder, brake booster, brake panel and emergency brake*

And the story goes on until the person has a car with no doors, no trunk or hood, no parts.

It's basically an engine, four wheels (what's left of them), a steering wheel, a cardboard box to sit on and a huge gas tank.

But that's okay, even though the car has lost all functionality, is no longer road-safe, is limited to perform one function, as uncomfortable as hell, the user is happy.

Why? Because the car can drive 300MPH for 4000 miles using 2 liters of gas and a 3 cylinder geo-metro engine.

That is the logic of messing with services. The best windows installation is one with all services left intact running on good hardware. My computer is faster then 90% of people's computers based simply on the fact that instead of tweaking in windows, I upgrade my hardware.

If you want performance, stop trying these damned miracle tweaks and make some real changes.

Upgrade.

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