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soporific

Auto-Patcher For Windows 98se (English)

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Well, the suggestions point to a 98FE cd... but I think it may be the other way....

it *is* a SE cd, regardless as to what the numbers say. and it is an original...

It was purchased (both copies I have) from the local computer shop when they quit supporting 98...

You see, these copies were supposedly the *last* version of 98SE. That's literally all I know, as I wasn't "into" versions and crap back then... the CDs are about 5 years old now...

I am leaning towards thinking these CDs are probably some 'hotfixed at M$' hacked jobs now... especially when i think of the other M$ offerings of the time...

And the driver CD for the mobo seems to all be WDM drivers...

On a side note, these CDs were purchased waaay back when M$ first released a Security Updates CD for ?all? Windows (I know it included 98SE to XP updates, and pre-SP1 for XP)

I did NOT use this CD on anything related to the issue at hand, so please do *not* tell me I shouldn't. But please tell me more about the issues it causes, as I was previously thinking of using it on these...

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"With few exceptions, Windows 98 hotfixes are stamped with a version number of 4.10.1999 or greater, which indicates that the file is a newer version than the file that had been originally included with Windows 98. Windows 98 Second Edition hotfixes are generally stamped with a version number of 4.10.2223 or greater"

If i applied the above, in a company enviroment, I would alter certain information i.e version so I could keep tabs on which pc has which update applied. Easy failsafe method

This is about file version, not OS version. OS version remains unchanged.

Petr

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"With few exceptions, Windows 98 hotfixes are stamped with a version number of 4.10.1999 or greater, which indicates that the file is a newer version than the file that had been originally included with Windows 98. Windows 98 Second Edition hotfixes are generally stamped with a version number of 4.10.2223 or greater"

If i applied the above, in a company enviroment, I would alter certain information i.e version so I could keep tabs on which pc has which update applied. Easy failsafe method

This is about file version, not OS version. OS version remains unchanged.

Petr

I am simply saying that the os version number has been changed to reflect the hotfixes applied

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OK lets try to clear up some confusion!! if you type VER in a DOS box in any Windows operating system, you get the version of the operating system.
VER doesn't work for me but WINVER does. Also, if you've installed 98SE2ME the OS version shown will be Millenium not Win98SE.

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I am simply saying that the os version number has been changed to reflect the hotfixes applied

And I'm simply saying that it is impossible - none of the released hotfixes change OS version number.

Please give me any example of hotfix that changes the windows version number.

Petr

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I am simply saying that the os version number has been changed to reflect the hotfixes applied

And I'm simply saying that it is impossible - none of the released hotfixes change OS version number.

Please give me any example of hotfix that changes the windows version number.

Petr

I have not/am not refering to released hotfixes,I gleamed that bit of information from the post

"No Auto-patching at all, and it reports 4.10.1999"

I am refering to DeadDudes very interesting non standard setup cd and replying to Drugwash "Then, what is 4.xx.1999, repeatedly reported by DeadDude?"

@DeadDude it will be very interesting to see any screenshots you are able to take Friday, and also to see how ntkern.vxd differs from 98se/me

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OK lets try to clear up some confusion!! if you type VER in a DOS box in any Windows operating system, you get the version of the operating system.
VER doesn't work for me but WINVER does. Also, if you've installed 98SE2ME the OS version shown will be Millenium not Win98SE.

98SE2ME changes the OS version reported to ME??? Is this true?

Isn't that in the auto-patcher??

Is it possible that some *specific* hotfixes and magic voodoo that these packages *together* (hell, even so far as to say on *this specific rig*), caused this problem?

Later today I will have 2 of these towers up and running... and a third will be with me for at least a week...

I've almost totally 'worked around' this, (I've got the owner manually writing in totals on invoices, and he seems to be able to deal with that), but I am totally curious now what is going on...

Who knows, maybe going through all this could get me to a point where I can help like y'all...

(is it *just* because 98 is old that you guys know all this?? trial and error? :bows: )

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No, MDGx changed that from old versions. The GUI from My Computer's properties used to report the Windows Me version in old 98SE2ME versions but it was and always will be 98SE. The newer 98SE2ME versions, for quite some time now, show 98SE version numbers. It was just the GUI anyway.

And yes, the auto-patcher does include a small subset of 98SE2ME, but only the Explorer.exe and updated registry (user32.dll and user.exe I think) files because bugs were fixed in the Windows Me versions.

If you are not going to seperately install 98SE2ME and 98MP10 then I recommend letting the auto-patcher install what it includes of them.

If you intend to seperately install 98SE2ME and 98MP10 then I recommend toggling those off in auto-patcher so the backup process is not interferred with and the files are updated properly when you do run those seperately (as I do. I'd rather have the full versions).

But that didn't cause your problem. I think you have official Microsoft cd's, but rare ones that mess with the version just like that old Security Updates cd did. Yeech!

So you've got something extremely unusual there. I think retail or OEM 98SE cd's are occasionally available on ebay. Or you probably have a friend or associate who no longer runs 98SE and would give, sell you their cd and license. That would be the safest bet as who knows at this point what folks on ebay are selling.

I wouldn't want to run the cd you have as it obviously causes conflicts with updates and programs just like the Security Updates cd used to. It's up to you but it might not be possible to get everything updated and working with that cd.

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According to DeadDude's post #191:

• windows 98 ASP0210 X05-39104 (NM.05) 08 IFPI L894 BARCODE

• At the rights side of the hole it says

For distribution

with a new PC

only. For product

support, contact

the manufacturer

of your PC.

SECOND EDITION

According to Eck's post #189:

• Windows 98SE: 0499 Part No. X04-14310

• Windows 98Gold + SE Update: 0499 Part No. X04-12707

• Windows 98SP1: 0499 Part No. X04-64496

According to DeadDude's post #187:

No Auto-patching at all, and it reports 4.10.1999

• Only installed files were Win98SE (after the Gold fiasco), driver CD from GigaByte, and Auto-Patcher 1.7, then 1.8... and that sequence boosted it to 4.95.2222

According to oscardog's post #195:

• "With few exceptions, Windows 98 hotfixes are stamped with a version number of 4.10.1999 or greater, which indicates that the file is a newer version than the file that had been originally included with Windows 98. Windows 98 Second Edition hotfixes are generally stamped with a version number of 4.10.2223 or greater"

My conclusions:

• The CDs are definitely OEM versions

• They are Windows 98Gold with hotfixes (and possibly SP1) included

• It's possible that they're preliminary versions of 98SE (attempts at) - limited series

• The cause of version boost to 4.95.2222 must be found and dealt with

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Isn't that in the auto-patcher??

Just to clear up confusion, the 98 to Me included in auto-patcher is only the core of it --- only 3 files get updated and so i wouldn't expect and/or want the version to say anything other than Windows 98 second edition. Here's a screenshot of my test system after everything in auto-patcher is installed:

SHOT15a.png

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Yeah, but see that 4.90.3000A? That's what MDGx has fixed in the full version of 98SE2ME. It stays at 4.10.2222, or whatever it's supposed to be exactly. I forget and can't check at the moment since I'm in XP. I still think that's cosmetic, as the command prompt winver would I assume be the version reported to updates or install programs that check the Windows version.

At any rate, I turn those modules off in auto-patcher and install the full versions as I have a Windows Me cd for that. The version reported after using the auto-patcher is then not changed from before running it.

I think this fellow just needs to get his hands on normal 98SE cd's. Right off the bat his version will throw off updates and programs, same as the Microsoft Security Updates Cd did.

I see this as a Microsoft mess up. I think the computers that came pre-manufatured with this version of Windows installed aren't all that updatable due to that crappy hybrid Windows installed. And installing this included cd of that particular OEM Windows results in the same problems.

Hey! Maybe this fellow is the only one who got these computers that is still trying to run 98 on them. Or, at least, update them. Wow. A special moment.

Calls for a beer.

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Yeah, but see that 4.90.3000A? That's what MDGx has fixed in the full version of 98SE2ME. It stays at 4.10.2222, or whatever it's supposed to be exactly. I forget and can't check at the moment since I'm in XP. I still think that's cosmetic, as the command prompt winver would I assume be the version reported to updates or install programs that check the Windows version.

Hmmmm, i hope its cosmetic but i'm now wondering why I sometimes (very rarely) get this behaviour with Windows Explorer (I think it happens when I install SHELL98) --- all the drop-down menus aren't available and I cannot return it to normal --- has anyone else seen this?

SHOT16a.png

Calls for a beer.

substitute spliff for beer and i'll join you.

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DUDE!!!

THAT'S WHAT HPJOBBER DID BEFORE!!!!!!! Except it wasn't a Win balloon, it is just BLACK. And it was inside HPJobber... not explorer.exe... and hpjobber doesn't use the standard GUI model, it has some weird attempt at resembling DOS... right down to no menu at the top at all, it is all keyboard driven with some mouse hacks thrown in...

The very first install I had, using all the crap I listed, had that SAME problem....

but I only noticed it in HPJobber... (when it happened, I just used keyboard to shut down and restart)

So I think that **is** the problem, right there.

Yes, my CDs are some freaking thing :blink: ... thanks for the post earlier with colors... made it easier to recap...

Okay... sooo....

My OEM CDs are some really crazy beast.

My version string is fiddled with from the :realmad: ?beta? :realmad: 98SE.

The version is further modded by the partial install of the 98SE2ME thingy... (even if unintentional, this plays into it I think, as the version is *still* different after this)

*That* explains the wild version on a fresh install... as well as the entirely impossible version after auto-patcher...

Dang... Does anything know the viability of trying my CD key on another CD? :angel I know with XP that is usually possible, but is it on 98SE?

(Methinks this HPJobber software is absolute garbage... need to convince him to change to QuickBooks or something... looong story on it, but here's a try:

HPJobber *was* a DOS only program, no DOS box even... the guy was crazy smart, and this was a time when programmers often put time bombs and the like to keep people legit and updating/upgrading. Well, this guy, as the story goes, committed suicide. A company bought the rights to the software, but couldn't locate any source code. So, they wrote a Windows program that reads the DOS data files... and that's where it all gets uber-freaky. Don't know what to believe after this point...)

Edited by DeadDude

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Question on the CD thing....

Microsoft gave away over 2,000 copies of 98SE to a small non-profit org "Computers for the Community"

This org rebuilt donated hardware into computers that they gave away...

I was their 'certified computer technician' for 2 years, and routinely took work home...

I really don't think my CD got swapped with one of their's... but it is the only thing I can think of...

unless my "local shoppe" was somehow selling stuff they had no right to.

and now knowing the CD is definately a major fubar, perhaps it *is* from that batch M$ gave away?

It is awfully odd... but perhaps M$ knew about the screw ups and that's why they gave them away instead of selling them?

Just some final thoughts on this issue....

Thanks for the help in nailing the problem down, and it looks like we still found some sort of a bug in Auto-patcher... yay, I *didn't* spam!

@Soporific

Sorry to be happy about a bug, but I'm sure you can understand how crazy I was getting over this...

Would you recommend not installing the 98SE2ME from Auto-patcher, and installing the full package to see if it still happens?

Would using VMWare produce similar results? I would think so, and if it does... I can pop out whatever tests you want real quick... cloned machine, anyone? Is it illegal to send a copy of the virtual machine to someone for comparison? I got cable internet, so tell me where to upload it if it is OK to do so... I can make it as small as about 200megs (maybe smaller, I never tried it)

My latest VM 98 installs are jackhammer, so it doesn't reflect this issue... but tomorrow... err today... later today I will try...

@anyone else

I will not send anything to anyone else. Actually, there are perhaps 3 people I would send to, but they should already be able to figure out who they are from their posts. I do NOT condone stealing software, even if it is a 10 year old OS from the biggest and richest monopoly on Earth. (they'll track you down and tag you for life... I've *seen* it)

Edited by DeadDude

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soperific,

That's the look I was getting a while back when using auto-patcher and letting it install 98SE2ME and 98MP10 modules. Not right after the auto-patcher but rather following the installs of 98SE2ME and 98MP10 done afterwards. The weird mix of XP icons on that full screen type Internet Explorer look on all Explorer windows. That, and the WMP not opening and that error message of the conflicting versions. The WMP stuff was fixed by MDGx by a newer version of the updates but I never did figure out (or seemingly get anyone to understand what I meant) why the explorer windows looked like your picture!

Last time I ran it I untoggled your 98SE2ME and 98MP10 modules and did not experience that weirdness. Now you say it was caused by SHELL98? Hmm, was that taken out of 1.7? Or, toggled off by default?

So SHELL98 is the culprit? Funny but I kind of remember that I toggled that on when I last ran auto-patcher 1.7 and I didn't get the weird explorer windows. Maybe it wasn't SHELL98 that I toggled though. I think it was some patch for large file movement, deleting though.

I hope that now that you got the same error that I did and understand what I was talking about we can permanently figure out how to stop it from happening (what to NOT install)!

DeadDude,

I don't think Soperific would need your image, but perhaps he would (can't speak for him) enjoy examining that weird Microsoft hybrid 98 cd you have there just for fun. As far as fixing a bug, it's not an auto-patcher bug as all auto-patcher is doing is installing all these updates. Aside from still having Environment size errors without a bit of tinkering it appears to do its job of installing anything it is set to install perfectly.

Your errors seem to be specific to that program you're using and that strange 98 cd.

Soperific,

Yeah, what about those Environment space warnings? I need to right click and change the memory tab Initial Environment to the (4096?, I forget) largest in the drop down in the batch files I see there. But then I still get the warning in the first screen about it but when I choose to run it anyway it works with no environment errors any of the further screens. That IS something that is a bit buggy about auto-patcher and it will not run without my right click fixing.

Edited by Eck

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