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krick

best/fastest hardware platform that supports 98SE

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I really don't think windows 9x will ever have PCI-E support.

I suppose a chipset maker *could* write windows 98 drivers for PCI-E but I doubt they will.

Nvidia doesn't support windows 98 at all with the latest nForce drivers.

Intel has Windows 98 SE support for 915x Express chipsets but not 100%.

Fiodor in his post shows screenshot of PCI-E Nvidia GeForce 6600 in Intel 955X motherboard. I only found that PCI-E GeForce 6200 TurboCache does now work with Windows 98 SE.

I think you hit it on the head, you must have hardware, BIOS, and drivers that can handle LBA48, *AND* you must keep the partition sizes under 137GB. There's a whole separate thread that addresses this problem...

You can have partition size above 137GB but Windows ScanDisk and Defrag will not work. You can use either DOS ScanDisk that apparently does not have this limit or Norton SystemWorks or any other 3rd party software.

Petr

Edited by Petr

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I don't get Smartgart this way, but do get the ATI Control Panel and as long as the latest Via 4-in-1 used is the 4443 (the lower one on the viaarena download page), AGP works with whatever is set in the bios. Any later Via Hyperion and you don't get AGP, it's turned off and you're on PCI speeds! This even happens with a Radeon 9600XT. On XP all this isn't necessary as the Catalyst install program works perfectly and the inf includes the proper ID for the card.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here about "you don't get AGP" with the latest 4-in-1 drivers.

Is this specific to your board, specific Via chipsets, or all boards using Via chipsets?

Can you explain in more detail?

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I meant that the card will run at PCI speeds, with no AGP reads or writes.

The information in the ATI tab in Windows display control panel will report the current AGP speed as being zero.

The DirectX diag will report AGP Textures as not supported or unavailable.

Now, if I instead install the AGP driver from the 4.43v Via 4-in-1's then my AGP is reported as 8x and dxdiag has AGP Textures as enabled.

On Windows XP, this doesn't apply as the built in to XPSP2 Via AGP driver has no problem. Interestingly, I also have an Asus Radeon A9550 AGP card and with this card XP does not install its AGP driver during setup and I must use the one installed by the Via Hyperion Pro. AND, the one automatically installed is the AGP driver with 2.0 and 3.0 support. This driver does not enable AGP in XP or 98SE. Even in XP, when using this driver I get the AGP speed at zero and no texture support. Smartgart will not allow setting the AGP reads or writes to on. However, when I manually update the driver in device manager to the normal Via AGP driver (the one that doesn't mention AGP 2.0, 3.0 support) then I get back my AGP 8x speed and texturing. All settings can then be enabled, with the exception of fast writes as I have that turned off in the bios.

I'm currently running 98SE on my Asus A7V880 board with the ATI Radeon x850. I must first run the 4-in-1 4.43v installer, only installing the AGP driver, then install the Hyperion Pro 5.04a set without the AGP driver. I need the later Via set because the inf for the rest of the devices in the 4.43v doesn't recognize my board so it doesn't update the Windows default drivers.

Then, I need to manually update the Microsoft PCI to PCI thing to the Via AGP driver because Windows automatically installs its own Pci to Pci driver instead of the Via AGP one. But I must choose the Via AGP that doesn't mention the 2.0, 3.0 support in order for the AGP to work correctly.

These procedures are necessary for me on 3 motherboards and either on my built by ATI cards (the x850PRO and the 9600XT) or my ASUS Radeon.

And, I also need to manually install the x850 beta driver in the Catalyst package for Windows 98SE as the installer reports no supported hardware. I gave my step by step for that in another thread.

Once all is done, the ATI MMC 9.13 works perfectly (including the DVD decoder meant for XP), and the card runs perfectly including the ATI Control Panel, which installs fine once I've manually installed the drivers in device manager.

On 98SE, I just miss out on Smartgart, Overdrive, and that thing that resets the display if the card crashes during a game. Otherwise, it's all there including all the 3D controls.

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I meant that the card will run at PCI speeds, with no AGP reads or writes.

The information in the ATI tab in Windows display control panel will report the current AGP speed as being zero.

The DirectX diag will report AGP Textures as not supported or unavailable.

Now, if I instead install the AGP driver from the 4.43v Via 4-in-1's then my AGP is reported as 8x and dxdiag has AGP Textures as enabled.

On Windows XP, this doesn't apply as the built in to XPSP2 Via AGP driver has no problem. Interestingly, I also have an Asus Radeon A9550 AGP card and with this card XP does not install its AGP driver during setup and I must use the one installed by the Via Hyperion Pro. AND, the one automatically installed is the AGP driver with 2.0 and 3.0 support. This driver does not enable AGP in XP or 98SE. Even in XP, when using this driver I get the AGP speed at zero and no texture support. Smartgart will not allow setting the AGP reads or writes to on. However, when I manually update the driver in device manager to the normal Via AGP driver (the one that doesn't mention AGP 2.0, 3.0 support) then I get back my AGP 8x speed and texturing. All settings can then be enabled, with the exception of fast writes as I have that turned off in the bios.

I'm currently running 98SE on my Asus A7V880 board with the ATI Radeon x850. I must first run the 4-in-1 4.43v installer, only installing the AGP driver, then install the Hyperion Pro 5.04a set without the AGP driver. I need the later Via set because the inf for the rest of the devices in the 4.43v doesn't recognize my board so it doesn't update the Windows default drivers.

Then, I need to manually update the Microsoft PCI to PCI thing to the Via AGP driver because Windows automatically installs its own Pci to Pci driver instead of the Via AGP one. But I must choose the Via AGP that doesn't mention the 2.0, 3.0 support in order for the AGP to work correctly.

These procedures are necessary for me on 3 motherboards and either on my built by ATI cards (the x850PRO and the 9600XT) or my ASUS Radeon.

And, I also need to manually install the x850 beta driver in the Catalyst package for Windows 98SE as the installer reports no supported hardware. I gave my step by step for that in another thread.

Once all is done, the ATI MMC 9.13 works perfectly (including the DVD decoder meant for XP), and the card runs perfectly including the ATI Control Panel, which installs fine once I've manually installed the drivers in device manager.

On 98SE, I just miss out on Smartgart, Overdrive, and that thing that resets the display if the card crashes during a game. Otherwise, it's all there including all the 3D controls.

Yikes! I hope I don't have to go through all that with my ASUS A8V. That would really suck.

Edited by krick

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Aw, it's not that bad once you get used to updating a driver here and there in device manager, only when necessary.

Good news on the ATI front. They released the Catalyst 6.2's for 9x/Me! And the installer now runs the setup and installs the driver automatically.

I don't want to tell you the problems I had after uninstalling the 5.9's and using DriverCleaner. Hmm, well I want to tell you but I don't want to type it out again. Copy and paste time.

Hey, now I even get Smartdrive! ATI released the Catalyst 6.2 for 9x/Me and, with some trouble after uninstalling the 5.9's using DriverCleaner, I updated to them.

The Cat installer now recognizes the card and sets up the driver itself, and I therefore get Smartgart again. The setup crashed (froze my mouse and Windows) after apparently taking care of everything. Although I needed to reset the computer to restart, everything was installed including the stuff in add/remove so I think all I missed was the final screen with the prompt to restart the computer.

That may have been caused by my uninstalling DAO after removing MMC. Sometimes that removes things related to install programs. No problem since I reinstalled all the MMC, DAO, etc stuff and everything works.

I did have Windows problems regarding the display after uninstalling the older Cat's. I did the usual things. Add/Remove programs. Uninstall ATI MMC, Parental Decoder, DVD Decoder, DAO. Restart. Uninstall ATI Control Panel, ATI Driver. Change the AutoExec Path statement removing the ATI reference.

When I checked the device manager before rebooting, I noticed that unlike all the previous times I've uninstalled ATI, this time the Radeon was still listed. So I updated the driver to the Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) and the Standard PCI Graphics Adapter for the secondary display. I then ran the Catalyst standalone uninstaller and rebooted to Safe Mode.

I noticed there that I had forgotten the WDM stuff so I booted to normal mode and removed the Network Microsoft TV/Video Connection but needed to go back to Safe Mode to remove the now Ghost ATI WDM stuff.

Once removed and rebooted again to Safe Mode I ran DriverCleaner and used the cleaners for what I had uninstalled.

The Display Adapters had looked fine in device manager in Safe Mode, but back in Windows I got an error message regarding the display card not working properly. The Display Adapters in Device Manager were gone. I tried applying the 16 Color, 8 Bit setting and rebooting but got the same result. I tried using the New Hardware Wizard and installed the Standard PCI Graphics stuff again, but although they would now show up, I couldn't install any monitors and kept getting that error message at startup.

Well, I said a prayer and ran the ATI WDM and Catalyst 6.2 setup's.

Eureka! That fixed everything. And since I put the DAO and MMC stuff back I suppose the system has all its parts again.

The only difference besides getting Smartgart is that the System.ini file boot section now shows the Standard PCI Graphics Adapter (VGA) as my display=.

That had been my experience with all my previous ATI cards, so I think that's okay. The only time that display= listed the Radeon was when I had installed the beta Catalyst 5.9's manually. And, maybe that had something to do with Windows not accepting the Standard PCI thing as my working display adapter while updating.

Anyway, it all works!

End copy and paste. Now you see why I didn't want to type that again. The average user would have possibly given up at many of my setbacks, but the average user probably isn't still using Windows 98SE!

It reminds me of folks complaining on the Vogon's Dosbox forum about Dosbox being complicated at times. The administrators usually reply that if you didn't have the patience to figure out how to get your games working in MS-DOS then you shouldn't be bothering with Dosbox.

If you can overcome setbacks in 98SE, you learn stuff and get rewarded with a more responsive, faster system than XP.

And krick,

Maybe the Via AGP will work for you without using the older driver. On 3 Via chipset systems they haven't for me, but at least you know that if you see the AGP not being used right you can fix it. If you need to go back though, you need to rerun the Via Hyperion installer for the ones you have installed first and tell it to uninstall the AGP driver. On reboot, Windows will install the Microsoft PCI to PCI thing. Then you run the older 4.43v's and just install the AGP driver. Then check to see on reboot whether device manager has it installed. If not, you can update manually as the 4-in-1's did install the driver files into the Windows folder.

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Maybe the Via AGP will work for you without using the older driver. On 3 Via chipset systems they haven't for me, but at least you know that if you see the AGP not being used right you can fix it. If you need to go back though, you need to rerun the Via Hyperion installer for the ones you have installed first and tell it to uninstall the AGP driver. On reboot, Windows will install the Microsoft PCI to PCI thing. Then you run the older 4.43v's and just install the AGP driver. Then check to see on reboot whether device manager has it installed. If not, you can update manually as the 4-in-1's did install the driver files into the Windows folder.

I finally got a break from work and got back to setting up my Asus A8V Deluxe tonight.

The VIA Version 4.43 driver is dated 25 October 2001.

I was poking around the ASUS site, looking for the latest versions of the drivers and whatnot, and I noticed that they have a different VIA driver package that appears to be newer than the 4.43 you used.

Description VIA 4 in 1 driver Package Service v4.49P3

Version 4.49P3

2003/10/22 update

OS Win98SE / WinME / Win2K / WinXP

File Size 1.34 (MBytes)

http://dlsvr03.asus.com/pub/ASUS/misc/utils/4in1_449p3.zip

I also found this page on the VIA site that has even more to choose from...

http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageI...atID=1110&Old=1

Version - 4.53 16 August 2004

Version - 4.55vp1 25 November 2004

Version - 4.56v 12 April 2005

Note that the link is broken on version 4.56. Here's the right link...

http://downloads.viaarena.com/drivers/4in1...04in1_v456v.zip

The 4.53 version actually has some release notes too...

http://downloads.viaarena.com/drivers/4in1...lease(453v).doc

Some of it is pretty interesting.

I'm pretty sure that the reason that VIA posts the 4.43 drivers when there are better newer versions, is that 4.43 was the last version that was WHQL certified for windows 9x. If you look at the release notes for v 4.53, it shows that and also shows that a few decent bugs were fixed in later versions.

Edited by krick

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On Windows XP, this doesn't apply as the built in to XPSP2 Via AGP driver has no problem.

Then, I need to manually update the Microsoft PCI to PCI thing to the Via AGP driver because Windows automatically installs its own Pci to Pci driver instead of the Via AGP one. But I must choose the Via AGP that doesn't mention the 2.0, 3.0 support in order for the AGP to work correctly.

I have the same problem too with my Asus A7V8X-X (Via KT400) motherboard.

But the difference is that even with Windows XP SP2, I'm required to use the AGP driver from Via. It will automatically go to the PCI-to-PCI thing. Then if I change it to the SP2 Microsoft AGP driver, it will refuse to load it with the error message saying that it failed to start. Thus the Microsoft one isn't compatible with my Asus A7V8X-X motherboard!

Even with Windows XP SP2, still required to use the AGP driver from Via!

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Yes, I know there are newer. But the last AGP driver that works on my motherboards on 9x is the one on 4.43.

As I said, I only use the AGP driver from that. If I use the whole 4.43 package, I don't get the rest of the drivers as the 4.43 apparently doesn't recognize my boards. I just use the latest Via Hyperion Pro that has the IDE filter (5.02a) for 9x. 5.07 leaves this out as XP doesn't need it.

The board's cd comes with 4.53. Can't use the AGP from it on 9x. At least, if I want working AGP.

Not too much of a problem after having figured out which ones to use. Just one manual update is needed, using device manager to update the AGP to what the 4.43 installed from the Microsoft PCI to PCI driver. Sometimes on reboot after the AGP Via setup I need to direct the hardware wizard to the via agp inf or the vxd file, but it's simple to browse around for it.

Little by little the native 9x support on newer drivers requires some more user work to get them working right. The stuff is there, but all these installers are really designed and tested now on XP systems.

At least we can still get it all working. Not for the meek user who just wants to push the power button and have stuff work automatically anymore! Once set up though, 9x still can work great.

Edited by Eck

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I set up my system using the 5.07 drivers. From what I understand, the IDE filter thing is only for UDMA6 (ultra 133), which none of my drives support anyway. It looks like everything installed correctly too, including the AGP. I ran dxdiag and didn't see the AGP texture problem that you mentioned.

The only thing I saw that might be a problem is when I run CPU-Z, there's something about AGP sideband not being supported. However, I'm not sure if it's referring to my AGP card itself, the motherboard, or the drivers. I'm currently testing everything with a 32Meg TNT2 card I had laying around. Ultimately, this computer will be running a Radeon 9250 based ArcadeVGA card.

Are there any specific utilities other than dxdiag that I should run that would indicate wether or not I had chipset driver problems?

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I mostly use Maxtor HD's so I do need that IDE filter for the 133 speed.

Interesting about your AGP working. I've got 3 different ATI cards (9550, 9600XT, x850Pro) and none of them turn on AGP if using the newer Via AGP drivers on 98SE.

As long as the driver is listed in device manager as the Via AGP, the details button in your ATI Control Panel shows current speed as 8X (or, whatever your card gives you based on your bios or smartgart settings), and AGP Textures are showing as enabled in DXDIAG then your fine.

Now, with the newer Catalyst 6.2 for 9x, you also get Smartgart. This is because the ATI Setup program now works on the x850 cards. So you can see the basic settings from the Smartgart tab in the ATI Control Panel, or the full settings by running smartgart from the Start, Run. It'll show all the settings and what Smartgart has them set to. AGP and PCI Reads and Writes are all enabled on mine, and the speed is 8X.

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There's new VIA drivers. Version 509A...

http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?PageI...&CatID=1070

No word on what exactly is fixed in the way of bugs in this version.

So what's updated in comparison with version 5.08A:

RaidTool\Utility\Win98-Me\drvInterface.dll version 5, 2, 7, 0 -> 5, 3, 0, 0

VIARAID\driver\win9x\VIAMRAID.INF DriverVer=10/25/2005, 2.0.950.520 -> 03/31/2006, 2.0.950.530

VIARAID\driver\win9x\VIAMRAID.MPD version 2.0.950.520 -> 2.0.950.530

Added:

PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_6287.DeviceDesc = "VIA VT8251 AHCI Controller"

PCI\VEN_1106&DEV_0581.DeviceDesc = "VIA CX700/VX700 RAID Controller"

VIAAGP\driver\win98_Me\VIAAGPS.reg - Added: VN900M, P4M890, P4M900

VIAAGP\driver\win98_Me\VIAAGPV.reg - Added: VN900M, P4M890, P4M900

IDE Filter driver (VATAPI.VXD) is digitally signed on 6. December 2001 22:38:20, i.e. no change for long time.

IDE Miniport driver is not part of this package and can be downloaded separately: VIA_IDE_MPD_V320b.zip is digitally signed on 17. June 2003 23:25:15.

Petr

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Did anyone tried to run Win98 on a MB with AM2 socket?

Edited by Marius '95

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If we are talking about full feature support for system for both HW and SW lets start talk about processors.

As long i know Win98 does not support hyperthreading, multiprocessor or multicore systems, and 64 bit cores.

It means that all P3 processors are fully supported, some P4 are supported and 32 AMD cores are supported. This also limits amount of MB which can be used and it means that PCI-E graphic cards are automatically out of game... Rest depends on drivers.

If we are taking about partial or unofficial support here is only one limit and it is compatibility of drivers.

I really dont know how and why are some newer core features supported and how these functions work on supported/unsupported systems so the question is if it is possible to run win98 with these CPUs, and how it shall affect the system performance.

I am running on P3 Tualatin which does not contain any of these features, and i have no possibility to try newer cpu with old OS, so i am really interested if the system is able to run with all CPU features and with all MB features.

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