Which OS for an old laptop?

[At0mic]

Sorry I didn't post earlier. I just removed everything using nlite except for about 2 or 3 essential things which are needed for the functionality of windows. I cant tell you what I removed exactly because I lost my nlite config file during a format. I'll try and redo and test it then post it shortly.

I've been concentrating heavily on file removal these past few weeks and my Winnt folder is getting smaller each day. Currently its about 100Mb and I plan to cut this down much much more.

When this is all complete, I'll post a list of all the files I removed. I'll also post a list of all files that are essential for Windows 2000 to be able to boot to the desktop. Also I’ll write a script which removes all these files for you.

I’ll try and add all these files to nlite so it removes them from the install but I know I’m going to have problems because some of the files I’ve removed are needed for Windows installation. The sad thing is I don’t know exactly which ones so it’s going to be a bit trial and error.

I also plan to do some major reg removal but that might take some time.

I'm also planning to greatly reduce the memory that windows uses to run. I had a play around with getting the Windows Nt 4.0 shell to work in Windows 2000. The NT4 shell made the startmenu say "windows NT" and of course quick launch was removed and it had the Windows NT style windows and everything. It was really cool but the sad thing was that it used about the same amount of ram so I didn't gain.

[Daemonforce]

You can hack away the minimum installation requirement, but you'll never hack away the minimum runtime requirements. I believe an NT kernel needs a bare minimum of 8MB ram to run at all. You obviously exceed that, but it isn't much. Are you able to put any more ram modules in your laptop?

Sorry I didn't post earlier. I just removed everything using nlite except for about 2 or 3 essential things which are needed for the functionality of windows.

Welcome to Win2K Stripped Edition.

[At0mic]

My laptop supports a maximum of 96Mb ram but there's no fun in that its too easy. I like a challenge. Maybe when my project is complete and I'm running windows 2000 with only 19Mb ram, I might decide to buy more ram.

[EchoNoise]

How about running DSL (**** Small Linux)

DSL runs fine for a firewall on my 233 with only 16mb ram

[pcalvert]

Personally, I would install Vector Linux. It was designed to work well on older hardware. If you already have another computer with Windows on it, why not put something different on the laptop? Or you could set it up as a dual-boot system containing nLited Win2K and Vector Linux.

BTW, just today I came across this (fairly) recent review of VectorLinux:

A distro enlightened: VectorLinux 5.1 Deluxe

Phil

[saugatak]

Atomic, check out FDV's fileset. You can nLite an FDV Win2k and get the best of both worlds. They're both great and each has its advantages. I've played with both and this is what I think:

1. FDV fileset is for Win2k only and is specialized for Win2k. nLite can be used on 2k, XP and 2k3, but it's really geared for XP and I think it works best on XP.

2. FDV fileset does a "cleaner" job on IE and OE removal. Lots of programs think they need IE. FDV fileset prunes the registry and does other hacks to fool the OS and other programs into thinking IE and OE are there when they're not.

3. If you don't want to do IE/OE removal, nLite is the better choice. FDV's fileset is highly specialized on IE and OE removal for Win2k only.

4. An nLited install CD is usually smaller in size than an FDV CD. nLite actually removes the physical components. FDV fileset does less removal in the actual CD, but at install time does not install the stuff that you've taken out. *BUT I understand that FDV is working to reduce the install size on his latest fileset.*

The end result--not installing files you don't want--is the same, just that the FDV Wkn2k install CD will be a little bigger.

5. If you elect to nLite an FDV Win2k, don't remove IE or any other component of the OS that FDV removed and you'll be OK.

Good luck.

[jaclaz]

However reduced, Win2K WILL NOT run decently on 32 Mb of RAM.

As soon as you start an app, it will get from the very reduced 30 Mb usage you achieved well over the 32 Mb of phisical memory, starting swapping on HD.

To reduce phisical usage of the HD, I once started a (actually very incomplete) project ....

I got as far (with NO network) as something like 80 Mb for ALL win2k files (no third party apps).

A list is here:

http://www.msfn.org/board/index.php?showtopic=41208&st=0

jaclaz

[At0mic]

However reduced, Win2K WILL NOT run decently on 32 Mb of RAM.

As soon as you start an app, it will get from the very reduced 30 Mb usage you achieved well over the 32 Mb of phisical memory, starting swapping on HD.

I dont plan to use large apps. The main apps I'll be using are Media Player Classic (uses 3Mb ram) and Firefox. I'm not sure how much ram that uses but there's a 3rd party tweaked and optimized version of firefox around thats been designed for people running windows from a memory stick.

By the way, I've since got my memory usage from 30Mb down to 21.1Mb and I'm still not finished. Maybe I could hit 20Mb. Then if I use that tweaked version of winlogon which is supposed to save you about 600Kb, I'll be using even less memory. Then I could think about using a higher compression on some of the larger dlls.

I even tried using the NT4.0 Shell by copying across explorer.exe and shell32.dll and tweaking the registry but it didn't seem to make any difference to the memory usage. I know it was running the NT4.0 shell because I had the NT4.0 startmenu and control panel etc.

Edited October 31, 2005 by At0mic

[Master of Your Domain]

I had similar Acer notebook (well, I still have it, but not exactly as it was before), also 1998 make, with 233MHz Pentium MMX, 32MB RAM only, 1MB video neomagic chipset, slow 4200rpm hdd etc (also the size of VHS or slightly more). I had it for years loaded with Win98 (patched up with various stuff, using FireFox etc) using it primarily for recording audio when i was studying, taking notes etc.

I got bored this summer and I made custom Win2K with IE and all other crap removed (as on vorck.com). I got it running down to few services with some 25MB RAM footprint, so it is doable, you may get down to your 19MB target.

But

its not really useful. Anything you'll run on it (bigger than a notepad) will immediately jump up your RAM use, and since there is no RAM, here comes the swap on a sloooooooooow hdd... man, save yourself this pain, and get more RAM.

My notebook was expandable to 144MB max (there is 16MB onboard SDRAM), so I just did that, installed 20GB hdd, added ZV port MPEG accelerator (PCMCIA card), sandard Win2K (patched with all latest crap) and man, now this old heap rox. Im serious, im taking it everywhere with me, because with wi-fi card (again - PC card) i can watch DVDs on my backyard streamed from my 'main' home puter, and virtually all over the city there is no problem to poach any free wi-fi access at any time either (free calls using voipbuster or just audiochat thru msn messenger)

I dont care about having IE since I dont use it (I prefer K-Meleon with its ZERO security holes known so far) or Task Scheduler opening port 135 etc etc - just add firewall, antivirus, and youre all set. Why bother playing with trials and errors... get more RAM and you'll be set within an hour or less

BTW - Fred's guide is very good inspiration to play with hfslip etc, but really its a freaking mess I had to translate it from English to English to few friends because his guide is so inconsistant ("all these files go to HF folder" then in the same sentence "these files go to somewhere else"... ). Overall great guide, but Fred should have warn there it is not for any newbies or anyone who can't i.e. distinguish between hotfix' .exe and a .cab file (hence won't know himself where goes what in hfslip). And some warning about removal of i.e. Add/Remove Progs cpl and some other *vital* components (for any n00b) are removed as well.

Today I was already asked by one of the buddies about some "hftools" folder... I guess I'd have to download newest hfslip version later and see what Fred missed or omitted in his guide

[pcalvert]

I dont care about having IE since I dont use it (I prefer K-Meleon with its ZERO security holes known so far)

Not really true. K-Meleon uses Gecko, just like Firefox. Therefore, it has some (but not all) of the same security holes as other browsers that use Gecko, like Firefox. In addition, K-Meleon is not updated by the developer very often. Sure, there are unofficial security updates available for K-Meleon. But do you really feel comfortable patching your browser with security updates that come from some semi-anonymous "Joe Schmoe"? Something to think about...

Phil

Edited November 3, 2005 by pcalvert

[pcalvert]

I even tried using the NT4.0 Shell by copying across explorer.exe and shell32.dll and tweaking the registry but it didn't seem to make any difference to the memory usage. I know it was running the NT4.0 shell because I had the NT4.0 startmenu and control panel etc.

Try bblean. Very minimal shell, but quite functional. No eye candy.

[dirtwarrior]

Could someone post the files removed from source to get install size very small? And tweaks.

[Master of Your Domain]

I dont care about having IE since I dont use it (I prefer K-Meleon with its ZERO security holes known so far)

Not really true. K-Meleon uses Gecko, just like Firefox. Therefore, it has some (but not all) of the same security holes as other browsers that use Gecko, like Firefox. In addition, K-Meleon is not updated by the developer very often. Sure, there are unofficial security updates available for K-Meleon. But do you really feel comfortable patching your browser with security updates that come from some semi-anonymous "Joe Schmoe"? Something to think about...

Phil

Ofcoz I update my gecko engine with latest (1.7.12 iirc), can you show me any security problem in it?

and obviously i'm not talking about any joe schmoes joe schmoes do use IE5/6, whatever came with their windozes, same as they do watch CNN for news, eat crap that is advertised on tv etc etc etc Lets leave Joe Schomoes of the world out of this board... its not that hard to update mozilla-based browser with new gecko, just read around and you'll be all set... and yes, youre right. all the browsers have more or less security problems, none is 100% bug-free, but you can't expect them to be released every day or even every week, obviously. But thats another subject for different thread, all I was saying is that if you have firewall set right, you dont need to remove IE at all to feel safe, just dont use it, thats all.

Removing IE is not easy for any "regular Joe", and not everyone (i.e. ME) likes to have their explorer view in windows looking like first Windows 95 first edition (the 'normal look' according to Fred V.) so its all up to the person...

Edited November 4, 2005 by Master of Your Domain

[fdv]

FDV sits in a red velvet chair reading a book.

Indistinct shouting comes from another room.

FDV looks up. TommyP enters, wearing his green robe, Cognac in one hand.

"You lazy bum," he starts.

"What?'

"There's a new post. Go reply."

"Allright allright. But I was busy, dude."

"Obviously. Get posting. The party for the latest HFSLIP is later. saugatak's out getting the champagne and Oleg_II's buying the caviar."

"Hey, man. Do you think all of this makes us a little hard to approach?"

"Hard to approach? dirtwarrior checks everyone against the guest list at the door. If they're new, they gotta join MSFN, but the forum's open to anyone."

"Yeah, I guess that's right. Okay, I'll get busy and post."

"Good. 'Cuz we also need you to work out the contract with the strippers too. They said they want more if we're gonna ask them to tolerate us talking about MS Windows all the time."

Hey Master of Your Domain, come join us in the forum! if you have suggestions on anything, even like documentation, we're open to suggestions. Some offering projects on the board might not like feedback, but we welcome it. I recently (October 31) made some changes to the site to clarify what files go in which folders, and in fact I get compliments via e-mail that the instructions are logical and laid out well, but if it's a train wreck to n00bs, I don't mean it to be. In fact, we've just started a set of "Generic Instructions" at http://www.vorck.com/hfslip-info.html (scroll down a little). With a little time I think it will be a good resource for new folks who really need the basics.

[jaclaz]

Good. 'Cuz we also need you to work out the contract with the strippers too.

Strippers? Did I read the word strippers?

Well, let's hope they are actually naked (Windows 95 first edition "normal look") and not have a parka on (Windows XP "heavy look")!

jaclaz

Edited November 5, 2005 by jaclaz