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Opera8.2 vs FireFox1.06


The Rock

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Zxian - can you combine all the toolbars with Opera like screen 1? i don't have the Google Lite toolbar combined, though i could, but i just tried moving buttons in Opera to the top toolbar where "file/edit/etc" is and couldn't do it.

anyone know of an AdBlock equilivant for Opera?

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for those wanting to test how fast "this" browser renders a page verses "that" browser, i found this site.

in order to get relevant results, i'd recommend doing at least 5+ runs with each browser (clearing cache each time), using the same site and average the results. should probably use a test site that is close to you (fewer hops) and if you get radically different results with the same browser, using the same site, then try a different site.

Edited by atomizer
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i have cable. and yeah, my post above refers to rendering times. Opera loads faster - no doubt. with some tweaking i could probably get it to pop up about instantly. as far as rendering time, i haven't seen a noticible difference yet.

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The reason why I say that Opera is better when it comes to UI customization is because I can do something like this. As you can see, I have the same toolbar (more or less) above and below the tab bar, meaning that I can turn either of them off and have the tab bar exactly where I want it.This is something that I have never been able to do with Firefox. If you could show me, I'd be grateful. :)

Another point for Opera is that you have the ability to hide the menu bar, something that I'm fairly sure would require an extension in Firefox. There are a couple more points here that I could add here. :P

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the UI part. I'm sure you like to have 4 toolbars, but most of us don't. I'd also like to move my back, stop, forward buttons up to my menu bar buttons. I for the life of me can't find how to do it in Opera. You say that you can get rid of the menu bar, thats great, but what if I don't want to. Lets say I want to get rid of the Help Menu. I can do that in firefox, not in Opera. I can customize my right click, and get rid of everything that I don't want. You say I need extensions, but I don't, they just make it easier.

Everything in Opera can be copied in Firefox, via editing files, or extensions. Firefox is an extremely powerful browser, you just need to know how to use it, much like IE.

I think the biggest loss for Opera is extensiblility. There are extensions in firefox that I would love to have in other browsers. Maybe its because I haven't used Opera enough, but I don't see how to add an extension, or even the ability to if I wanted to make one.

Firefox has passed the mom test for me. I got tired of going home to remove spyware, etc, so I put on firefox. She has had only one problem with it since she has had it. The look and feel of it is similar to IE out of the box. When I first saw Opera, I was wondering what half the buttons were. Fiddling around with it for a while, I couldn't get the look I wanted. I'm sure some people take the time here, but my mom would drop it in a heart beat.

Then on top of all that, firefox is FREE and OPEN SOURCE. Every extension I've run into is the same way. Sure I can get Opera for free, but the reason I am switching to firefox is to get away from ads, not to see ones the browser wants me to see. If I don't like how something works, I have the option of changing it, to make it better, or how I see fit. You can request it for Opera, but that is at the developer's discretion. This might be a little more advanced for you, but for people like me, I like that option.

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Zxian - can you combine all the toolbars with Opera like screen 1? i don't have the Google Lite toolbar combined, though i could, but i just tried moving buttons in Opera to the top toolbar where "file/edit/etc" is and couldn't do it.

anyone know of an AdBlock equilivant for Opera?

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on the UI part.  I'm sure you like to have 4 toolbars, but most of us don't.  I'd also like to move my back, stop, forward buttons up to my menu bar buttons.  I for the life of me can't find how to do it in Opera.  You say that you can get rid of the menu bar, thats great, but what if I don't want to.  Lets say I want to get rid of the Help Menu.  I can do that in firefox, not in Opera.  I can customize my right click, and get rid of everything that I don't want.  You say I need extensions, but I don't, they just make it easier.
How about something like this? The only thing left to do is to hide the menu bar (which you can set as a keyboard shortcut or find a custom button for it). All the menu items are now buttons that produce the same drop-down menu as the items in the menu bar.

The only difference that I can tell between this and the real menu bar is that you can't move from one menu to the next without clicking on the button (in the real menu bar, click on File, move over to Edit and that menu appears - can't do this). To some people, that may be a problem, to others, maybe not. It's not exactly what you've got in FF, but it's pretty close. ;)

The buttons I used (and more can be found) here (scroll down to menu buttons). The "Toggle the Menu bar on/off AND dropdown the main menu (with 'Notes' image)" button may be of some interest to you - it hides the main menu and when you click and drag down, a pull-down menu appears with all the items that are now hidden. It's something different to try out.

You can also customize the right-click menu in Opera. All the settings can be found in the Opera6.ini file. For more information, look here.

The 4 toolbars was just an example of how I can create a toolbar below the tab bar, something that I can't find out how to do in Firefox. Normally, I only have the tab bar and the navigation bar (back, forward, address, etc), I like my browser nice and simple, as I'm sure you do. Like I said to atomizer, if you can tell me how to do this, I'd appreciate it. I do use FF from time to time, and I'd still like to have it look the way I want.

Everything in Opera can be copied in Firefox, via editing files, or extensions.  Firefox is an extremely powerful browser, you just need to know how to use it, much like IE.

I think the biggest loss for Opera is extensiblility.  There are extensions in firefox that I would love to have in other browsers.  Maybe its because I haven't used Opera enough, but I don't see how to add an extension, or even the ability to if I wanted to make one.

Firefox has passed the mom test for me.  I got tired of going home to remove spyware, etc, so I put on firefox.  She has had only one problem with it since she has had it.  The look and feel of it is similar to IE out of the box.  When I first saw Opera, I was wondering what half the buttons were.  Fiddling around with it for a while, I couldn't get the look I wanted.  I'm sure some people take the time here, but my mom would drop it in a heart beat.

Then on top of all that, firefox is FREE and OPEN SOURCE.  Every extension I've run into is the same way.  Sure I can get Opera for free, but the reason I am switching to firefox is to get away from ads, not to see ones the browser wants me to see.  If I don't like how something works, I have the option of changing it, to make it better, or how I see fit.  You can request it for Opera, but that is at the developer's discretion.  This might be a little more advanced for you, but for people like me, I like that option.

These are all very valid points, and I agree with you on most of them (I don't think that IE6 could ever match the features of FF/Opera). Firefox is a very powerful browser, and the fact that it is open-source means that in the end, it could completely emulate any other browser out there.

I realize that the possibility of extensions is nearly endless, but what functions do you find missing in Opera? I'll try to find an equivalent or a workaround if I can, just so you can make a fair comparison. Usually the argument for this point is the other way around, since Opera comes with a number of features that you need extensions for in Firefox (mouse gestures, for example), but I know there are circumstances where the argument goes the otherway (the BBCode extension). The Opera group has added UserJS to allow for a bit more user-customization, but honestly, I haven't done all that much with it because I've never had a need for it.

And yes, to get a fundamental feature of Opera to be changed, you need to ask the developers. This can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on how you see it. With an Open source browser, if a person makes a change to the code to improve it, that change will take a very long time to spread out to the rest of the community (unless the change is made centrally). With a localized development team, any changes made are introduced to everyone at the same time. It takes longer for the centralized development team to release the change, but it gets there faster. Pros and cons on each side. Usually the Opera team is pretty open to new ideas, and if there is enough support on the forums, they will try to work it into a future release.

As for the flexibility, yes, for power users like yourself, you have the ability to do essentially whatever you want, but for the average Joe, they get lost. Most people I know who use Firefox have no idea about the potential, and even less of them understand the term "tweak". :(

I don't want this to turn into a flamewar (I said this before). I am in no way anti-Firefox - I've just found Opera suits my needs better. I'm sure that there are ways to get each browser to act like the other. Let's all just share ideas so that people can make their own decision. :)

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wow opera is much faster than firefox! i need to give it some time too, need to find some themes.

edit: wow the opera themes suck compared to firefox

I am a legal owner of 2 software licenses for RoboForm. I don't think I can browse without it. Go figure! :)

Don't tell me Wand is as good as RoboForm!! :(

Edited by King of Doom
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please, don't convert this on another opera vs. ff or viceversa. we've too many threads about this on the last months :}

if you're feeling ok with ff or opera just post the pros of them and don't attack each other on an eternal war... you guys know that the true enemy is IE :lol::P

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How about something like this? The only thing left to do is to hide the menu bar (which you can set as a keyboard shortcut or find a custom button for it). All the menu items are now buttons that produce the same drop-down menu as the items in the menu bar.

The only difference that I can tell between this and the real menu bar is that you can't move from one menu to the next without clicking on the button (in the real menu bar, click on File, move over to Edit and that menu appears - can't do this). To some people, that may be a problem, to others, maybe not. It's not exactly what you've got in FF, but it's pretty close. ;)

The buttons I used (and more can be found) here (scroll down to menu buttons). The "Toggle the Menu bar on/off AND dropdown the main menu (with 'Notes' image)" button may be of some interest to you - it hides the main menu and when you click and drag down, a pull-down menu appears with all the items that are now hidden. It's something different to try out.

You can also customize the right-click menu in Opera. All the settings can be found in the Opera6.ini file. For more information, look here.

Great points. I am more keyboard oriented, but the button idea is close enough.

The 4 toolbars was just an example of how I can create a toolbar below the tab bar, something that I can't find out how to do in Firefox. Normally, I only have the tab bar and the navigation bar (back, forward, address, etc), I like my browser nice and simple, as I'm sure you do. Like I said to atomizer, if you can tell me how to do this, I'd appreciate it. I do use FF from time to time, and I'd still like to have it look the way I want.
For you question, if you have tab mix plus, you can move the tab bar down. There is probably an option or a file you can edit to move it down, but since this is one of my essential extensions, I don't look that much further past it.

Firefox took most of the preferences dialogs away, to make things less confusing for the user. I'd have to say I agree with them on that. I had having to wade through hundreds of options to find what I am looking for (ie Azureus). I go there for important things, and use about:config for the more hidden ones.

I realize that the possibility of extensions is nearly endless, but what functions do you find missing in Opera? I'll try to find an equivalent or a workaround if I can, just so you can make a fair comparison. Usually the argument for this point is the other way around, since Opera comes with a number of features that you need extensions for in Firefox (mouse gestures, for example), but I know there are circumstances where the argument goes the otherway (the BBCode extension). The Opera group has added UserJS to allow for a bit more user-customization, but honestly, I haven't done all that much with it because I've never had a need for it.

One I am starting to like is the web developer extension. Lots of neat features that let me change the way a page looks, and to make sure it is working properly. Autofill is a feature I miss from IE on the Mac, or Google Toolbar. BugMeNot gets me past many a pages I shouldn't have to sign up for with the click of a button. ForecastFox, which I didn't think I would use but has been a pleasant suprise. I'm sure most of my other extensions have similar functionality in Opera. I'm sure there are many other extensions out there, but I don't use them until I have a need. If I find one that I like, then will try it out, and if I like it enough, it will go to my unattended cd. I still like the fact that I have extensions in Firefox, until Opera has them it has a long way to go IMHO.

Looks like the UserJS is like userChrome in Firefox. Most people don't use it, but its still nice to have the option there.

And yes, to get a fundamental feature of Opera to be changed, you need to ask the developers. This can be an advantage or a disadvantage depending on how you see it. With an Open source browser, if a person makes a change to the code to improve it, that change will take a very long time to spread out to the rest of the community (unless the change is made centrally). With a localized development team, any changes made are introduced to everyone at the same time. It takes longer for the centralized development team to release the change, but it gets there faster. Pros and cons on each side. Usually the Opera team is pretty open to new ideas, and if there is enough support on the forums, they will try to work it into a future release.
Firefox is much the same way. There is also a review process, to check for stability, and that nothing else is broken. You can either code this yourself, of ask about it on the forums. If enough interest is there, someone can do it for you, or one of the main developers will take it up. If you are new to coding then this is a great way for you to learn. If you think your code is bad, someone will be looking over it to make it faster.

Only problem with the forums are the elitists. Every board has them, and can deter any noobs. *cough*eben*cough*

I don't want this to turn into a flamewar (I said this before). I am in no way anti-Firefox - I've just found Opera suits my needs better. I'm sure that there are ways to get each browser to act like the other. Let's all just share ideas so that people can make their own decision. :)

Agreed. I know each browser has features I like, but when it came down to it Firefox was the clear winner for me. When Opera has their next major update, or Firefox gives me enough trouble; I will take another look at it. I will probably do the same for IE7, but it is playing catch up now.

4. breezah fanboiz/girls

You're saying you're not? Half of your list is either opinion, or features I don't need. I have much better programs for half of them, so why would I need them build into my browser? At least you have someone like Zxian arguing your case, because you make Opera look bad, fanboi.

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First things first, Opera 8.2 does not exist.

Its most current version is eight point ZERO two.

I have no disdain for firefox. But its clear that firefox comes a distant second, to Opera. I'd tell more about opera, but probably most ppl who frequent this forum already have seen my posts about this. ;)

And this was reasoned out a lot on the forums, its no fan-boyism! For the credentials, i have been using mozilla (in its alpha days) before i ever heard of opera actually - and mozilla incidentally is the parent of firefox....

Having your standalone Firefox web browser, then duplicating upwards of 95% of that functionality in Thunderbird, well that's what I'd call bloat!
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