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rhythmnsmoke

Anti-Virus to become obsolete.

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Does he have the time to do it? NO. Would he do it on my behalf, just to prove to someone who dosen't have any political pull that it works? NO
Now i haven't read the whole thread but this i think says it all.

u say u don't hav the time, then y are u giving lengthy replies to every **** post that comes up.

As i c it : SPAM, even if its what u say, its still jsut spam.

What was the point of coming here and telling us of this great product if it's not available? It makes absolutely no sense to me.

Exactly whats the point of this thread if not SPAM.

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Now i haven't read the whole thread but this i think says it all.

u say u don't hav the time, then y are u giving lengthy replies to every **** post that comes up.

As i c it : SPAM, even if its what u say, its still jsut spam.

And your statement shows that you didn't read everything. HE (our CP), if I was talking about myself, I wouldn't refer to myself in that tense.

Exactly whats the point of this thread if not SPAM.

To show people that there is more to computer security than what they think they know. And to give an ensight and knowledge to those people who otherwise don't have the resources nor are in a position to be involved in what goes on "underneath" the table in computer security.

Listen, I'm no more different than any of you on this board. I don't drive some fancy car, and live in some fancy house. I drive a 95 Toyota Corolla on a daily basis, and whip around the Scion TC on occassions(g/f's daily driver). I just happen to love my job, and I like telling people what this software can do. I don't sale things, and never like selling things ever since grade school when you school had you go door to door to offer candy, and get enough points just to get that shiny gift in the catalog. I'm no different than any of you. Before I started working here, I knew nothing about what goes on in the security sector of computing. The extent of my knowledge stopped with Mcafee, and Symantec as far as I know. But now, I work next to a guy who does have knowledge, skill and far beyond any programmer that I have came across thus far. His knowledge has rubbed off on me some, so I try to answer everyones questions to best of my ability just by watching and studing him. If James Bond was a real guy, and you were working directly under him, wouldn't you want to tell people about some of the cool adventures he took you on?

Edited by rhythmnsmoke

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Maybe not, but everyone is trying to justify that it "DOSEN'T" work based off the fact that I don't have the power to give them freebies.  Like I said, I have gone the distance to initiate facts and offers to look at it first hand, but it's not my fault if you didn't take me up on it.  I am not just going to go give someone half way around the world to whom I don't even know free software.  How do you make any money in a company by giving everything away to whomever ask?
Don't you get it? A trial version of software (there are plenty of examples out there - Even Adobe released a trial of PhotoshopCS2 (worth a pretty penny) a while back AFAIK) is just that - to get people to try the software for themselves. I never said that your software doesn't work, I'm just not going to believe that it does until I see it for myself on my computer (or at least one that is physically infront of me).
I'm not sure what your hobbies are, but I'm into cars, and motorcycles.  I have seen countless videos of Skyline GTR's, Koenigsegg CC's, Lambo's, etc....  Can I afford one of those right now?  NO.  Do I enjoy watching them in action?  YES.  Would I feel as though Porsche is insulting my intelligence just because they show a live race of their latest Porsche Gemballa GTR doing laps on Tsukuba Circuit, even though I can only dream of having one?  NO.  So, what's the difference?
The difference is that I can go to the local race track (or even downtown Vancouver) and see these cars for myself - in real life, and in person. Just to give you an example of how decieving computers can be, have a look at this picture. It looks surprisingly alike a real Audi S4, but it was computer generated. At first glance, it's hard to tell the difference. Same goes for any internet-based demonstration in my eyes.
It seems as if the reason why this thread is as large as it is, is due to the fact that most of the comments have been directed at trying to disprove what I'm saying without any evidence to back you up, instead of trying to understand how it's able to do what I say it does based off of evidence and backing from 3rd party sources.  Find somewhere, somehow, that what we are doing can't be done.  And I will show you how it's being done, despite what they say.

I think the reason why this thread has become so large is partially due to the fact that you arouse everyone's attention, and then let us know that it's unavailable to us - arousing everyone's attention again, but in a negative sense. Look at the number of threads from knowledgeable people here saying that what you're saying is a bit far fetched. For example, you seem to know about all these different "coding standards" but you're not the person responsible for using them... As for third party sources - they can be bought. Ever had a look at all the different AV "comparisons" and how most of them give a different result every time? It's because the company doing the comparison was bought out by the AV company who won. Plain and simple. If you want a true third party source, go to one of the industry leaders for security (you should know who they are if you're in the business) and then come back with their analysis. You'll probably get more (positive) attention that way.

Long story short (and others have said the same thing) there are some holes in your explanations.

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@Zxian - Thanks

@rhythmnsmoke -

I DID say "Actually, you may have convinced people that aren't as apt with computers, however I do doubt that you have convinced real programmers and true tech people that you aren't full of it." However, anyone with half a grasp of the english language will understand that nowhere in that statement is there an insult to the rest of this community. I respect this community and there's a lot of really bright people here. There's also a lot of new users who come here looking for advice and help. They very obviously cannot have the same understanding of computers as some of us others do. That's why I'm saying that while you try to impress people with your fancy talk, the ones of us who do have heavy background in computers and do know what we're talking about know that you don't know jack.

Example? Let's see, now that I blew a whole in your ANSI/Unicode parade, now you're trying to impress people with ATL, WTL and STL programming. See, ATL stands for Active Template Library, WTL stands for Windows Template Library and STL stands for Standard Template Library. Although these are C++ libraries, it certainly is not a programming language and certainly does not establish that you are you know jack because you can shoot off abreviations of some C++ libraries.

And now, you've skated so much and you've run around in circles shooting off your mouth and with all the BS you've been trying to feed everyone, that even if you posted code or if you posted programs you may have developed, no one would believe that you had actually accomplished that on your own.

See, you're one of those little kids that goes around on the net stealing everybody's code, trying to pass it off as your own, trying to make others believe you're hot stuff just so you can make people believe all the BS you feed them.

Sorry, but you came to the wrong place for that. You just ran into a large group of people who KNOW their stuff and KNOW you're full of it and now you don't know how to defend yourself because you don't actually have any real concrete knowledge or experience about anything you say.

And by the way, shell extension programming is really not as hard as you try to make it seem it is. Maybe if you had come in here and acted as a normal person and showed some of the stuff you were working on, maybe we would have believe you. And maybe, we would have even helped you.

Now? You're just an id***.

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Don't you get it? A trial version of software (there are plenty of examples out there - Even Adobe released a trial of PhotoshopCS2 (worth a pretty penny) a while back AFAIK) is just that - to get people to try the software for themselves. I never said that your software doesn't work, I'm just not going to believe that it does until I see it for myself on my computer (or at least one that is physically infront of me).

Maybe when we get to that point, I will run it by him to see if that's something we can put in for you. What I'm saying, as of RIGHT NOW, we don't have some watered down trial version that anyone can have. We are not in that stage of distribution.

The difference is that I can go to the local race track (or even downtown Vancouver) and see these cars for myself - in real life, and in person. Just to give you an example of how decieving computers can be, have a look at this picture. It looks surprisingly alike a real Audi S4, but it was computer generated. At first glance, it's hard to tell the difference. Same goes for any internet-based demonstration in my eyes.

1) Anyone can look at that and tell it's not real.

2) You are comparing a "Static" picture to "Listening to a persons voice, and watching them move stuff around on the desktop of their computer live as they describe what you are seeing". That's not the same thing.

3) When you are at the track and seeing them for yourself in real life and in person, are you actually DRIVING the cars. If not, then coming to the meeting is on the same level of experience as that, except it's done with a computer through your monitor.

I think the reason why this thread has become so large is partially due to the fact that you arouse everyone's attention, and then let us know that it's unavailable to us - arousing everyone's attention again, but in a negative sense.

How is me describing how it works, being "negative"?

Look at the number of threads from knowledgeable people here saying that what you're saying is a bit far fetched. For example, you seem to know about all these different "coding standards" but you're not the person responsible for using them... As for third party sources - they can be bought. Ever had a look at all the different AV "comparisons" and how most of them give a different result every time? It's because the company doing the comparison was bought out by the AV company who won. Plain and simple. If you want a true third party source, go to one of the industry leaders for security (you should know who they are if you're in the business) and then come back with their analysis. You'll probably get more (positive) attention that way.

1) We don't have the funds to try and buy someone to say it works.

2) Those people who are claiming that is far fetched are making statements

without even seeing it run.

3) The people who did get to see it, and came back to post, I didn't pay them to say

what I wanted them to say either.

How do you explain and answer my 3rd point? The only answer you could give to that is,

"I must have fooled them somehow, and they don't know what they were looking at."

That's exactly what happened. And that is what I meant by they shoot down anyone that comes back and says "yeah it does work". Frankly, that's not good enough justification in my book to write them off.

Long story short (and others have said the same thing) there are some holes in your explanations.

You say that there are holes, but you don't provide examples, nor do you seek for me to clarify them. Please if you mis-understood something, I would be more than happy to clear that up for you.

convinced people that aren't as apt with computers

Then explain exactly what people you were talking about in that part of your comment. You mean to tell me that you don't make the assumption that these people are not "APT" as you put it with computers. Because I have shown people from this board, to which they have come back to say it does work, only for you to tell them that they were not "APT" in computers. So, please, clarify this. And if they are not "APT" as you say they are, then where are all the "APT" people who can post comments AFTER they attend the meeting to tell you that it works. Those very same people that are knowledgeable are also the same people I was talking about their ego's. Those are the same people that try to pass judgement without actually attending the meeting. Don't you think that this thread would end and I would stop posting if someone to whom you considered to be "APT" actually attended the meeting and came back and said NO it dosen't work? This thread would then be killed. Has anyone that you deemed "APT" take me up on the challenge. NO. Therefore the thread moves on.

That's why I'm saying that while you try to impress people with your fancy talk, the ones of us who do have heavy background in computers and do know what we're talking about know that you don't know jack.

So, show me all the people that have heavy background in computers, and I will personally invite them to the meeting. If they don't accept, then you can't blame the fact that only people you consider to only have "USER" knowledge only came to the meeting, on me.

See, ATL stands for Active Template Library, WTL stands for Windows Template Library and STL stands for Standard Template Library. Although these are C++ libraries, it certainly is not a programming language and certainly does not establish that you are you know jack because you can shoot off abreviations of some C++ libraries.

If I was to spell everything out, then you would accuse me of assuming you don't know anything about it. Through your personal attack against me, you have failed to provide the good people on this board with an answer to my specific questions. And yes, Microsoft does recognize those as part of the C++ standards, and will accept them as code.

Taken from ATLSTL

ATLSTL is a sub-project of STLSoft that provides C++ libraries for Active Template Library (ATL) programming, in the mode of the Standard Template Library (STL). Like all other STLSoft sub-projects it is open source and 100% header-only.

Taken from Definition page

ACTIVE TEMPLATE LIBRARY - A group of routines provided by Microsoft that can be used to help more easily create ASP, ActiveX, and COM objects in C++.

ATL programming...guess I must have made that up. And again, you have not answered my question. How many applications, code have you created that contains ATL, WTL and STL?

Taken from Wikipedia

Being an unsupported library, WTL has little formal documentation. However, most of the API is a direct mirror of the standard Win32 calls, so the interface is familiar to most Windows programmers.

It states right there, that there are few programmers that actually do it, because of the lack of documentation.

And now, you've skated so much and you've run around in circles shooting off your mouth and with all the BS you've been trying to feed everyone, that even if you posted code or if you posted programs you may have developed, no one would believe that you had actually accomplished that on your own.

How many times do I have to say that I'm not the programmer. Nor do I program, and that all my knowledge is coming from a guy that has spent 10+ years coding this solution? You are truly showing your character. Now your saying that anyone in their right mind was able to actually see the proof, that they still wouldn't believe me. Man, that's a hard cookie.

See, you're one of those little kids that goes around on the net stealing everybody's code, trying to pass it off as your own, trying to make others believe you're hot stuff just so you can make people believe all the BS you feed them.

Now your insulting me directly....Geesh, I'm only trying to be professional with you here. Why would I steal code I don't understand. Again, "I AM NOT THE CODER, NOR DO I CODE". Did you not read the post telling you not to make sarcastic statements claiming I'm saying that I'm a coding "GOD". Obviously you didn't, because that is just what you did right there. I told you that I'm only conveying my knowledge and understanding, and trying to interpret what I hear from the man himself. And when he tells me what the source code consist of, and then I tell you that some of the code contains ATL, WTL, and STL, and you tell me that you can't code using that. All I did was ask, how do you know, when you don't even code using that stuff. To which all you can come back with is to say that I'm full of it. That's not answering my question...so stop Beating Around the Bush. All the people need is a YES or NO answer.

And by the way, shell extension programming is really not as hard as you try to make it seem it is. Maybe if you had come in here and acted as a normal person and showed some of the stuff you were working on, maybe we would have believe you. And maybe, we would have even helped you.

So, how many applications have you created that extended the shell of the Microsoft OS? And exactly what would I need help with? AGAIN, I'M NOT THE CODER! Geesh man....Do you not understand anything I tell you. It's like it goes in one ear and out the other.

1) I'm NOT the coder.

2) If there is something you would like for me to clarify, I would get the answer for

you.

3) You are the first person who sounds as if you are angry about something. I don't

recall insulting directly, if so, then I apologize. All I wanted is for you to answer

those questions in specific.

4) Why don't you take me up on the offer if you are so sure it dosen't work and

I'm just blowing smoke.

If you attend the meeting, and I show you and you can prove to everyone else that it didn't do what I said it did (without lieing to them), then they can close this Thread and I won't post anymore.

I have asked countless times for you all to take a vote and conisder someone who you think has a high level of knowledge of programming to speak on your behalf. And I would demo to that person, and show them everything in running, and they could come back and post their comments. Has that vote been done? NO. I have so many times described that I'm just like everyone else. I can only articulate what I hear from the guy who IS the coder. If there is something that you feel as though I'm just talking out of my poop-shoot about, then ask me a technical question about it, and I will ask him and then come back and clarify for you. Again, I'm NOT, some "all mighty" programmer. But the guy who coded this is the best I've seen. So, don't assume I'm talking about my self when I'm describing how things are done, or how something works.

PLEASE SOMEONE! SPEAK FOR THE ENTIRE GROUP! IF THEY COME BACK AND SPEAK THE TRUTH, AND SAY THAT IT DIDN'T DO AS I DESCRIBED, THEN ADMINS SHOULD CLOSE THE THREAD! Because, frankly I'm quite tired of having to repeat the answers to questions.

*EDIT* Just to let everyone know, I have just PM'ed Jcarle personally asking him that if he would like to attend the meeting, that he may do so. And that I would rather remain as professional as possible when we comment and make post. I assure him that I will not waste his time if he came to the meeting.So, if he dosen't take me up on the offer, then all I can do is just demo to those who are not "APT" as you so described. The ball is in your court.

Edited by rhythmnsmoke

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1) Anyone can look at that and tell it's not real. 

2) You are comparing a "Static" picture to "Listening to a persons voice, and watching them move stuff around on the desktop of their computer live as they describe what you are seeing".  That's not the same thing.

3) When you are at the track and seeing them for yourself in real life and in person, are you actually DRIVING the cars.  If not, then coming to the meeting is on the same level of experience as that, except it's done with a computer through your monitor.

Well... actually about #1, that's not true. A couple of my friends had to take a second look at the picture I posted up to notice that it was CG. About #2, you're not understanding the point I'm trying to make - it's through a computer! Anything that goes through a computer can be manipulated. As for #3, when I'm at the track and see the cars, I'm there!!! I'm not seeing the cars over the internet or over an edited TV channel. Oh, and one last thing - I'm not a rich guy, nor do I come from a very rich family, but through contacts, I had the opporotunity to drive an F430 a couple of months ago. Now that is first-hand experience like no other. That is what I would compare with a trial version of software, since I was in the driver's seat, with my hands (and feet) at the controls.
I think the reason why this thread has become so large is partially due to the fact that you arouse everyone's attention, and then let us know that it's unavailable to us - arousing everyone's attention again, but in a negative sense.

How is me describing how it works, being "negative"?

It's not you describing how it works - it's the fact that you tell us all this marvelous stuff about it, and show a couple of people who manage to make the time for your meetings. But for the rest of us...*shrugs* we get nothing.
Long story short (and others have said the same thing) there are some holes in your explanations.
You say that there are holes, but you don't provide examples, nor do you seek for me to clarify them. Please if you mis-understood something, I would be more than happy to clear that up for you.
...Because, frankly I'm quite tired of having to repeat the answers to questions.

So... you say that you're tired of having to repeat the answers to the same questions, and yet you ask me to go back and dig through your posts to find this stuff and have you answer it again?

Also... have you noticed how this forum has more than just one thread to it? Have you also noticed how everyone else who has participated in this thread has also participated in others.... except you? As much as you say this isn't some sort of advertising, it is... your very first post was about your product, and every single one of the 101 posts of yours after that have been in this thread (I just spent the last minute checking that). It just seems somewhat selfish to focus only on your product in a forum that deals with all kinds of software...(see here for a similar case...)

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look at it this way

you're on a market street, and this guy is selling a wonderful back pain curing device. an old geezer comes along and tries it out and he immediately has no worries in the world. honest? or con?

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Well... actually about #1, that's not true. A couple of my friends had to take a second look at the picture I posted up to notice that it was CG.

I can see where if you just glanced over it, you would make that mistake. But if you looked at it good enough, and know what to look for with CG graphics, you can pick them out real easy. Personally, I'm a big movie buff, so I seen a lot of films and have been able to figure out to some degree when the CG takes hold of the graphics.

About #2, you're not understanding the point I'm trying to make - it's through a computer! Anything that goes through a computer can be manipulated.

I understand that, but in the meeting, you will be able to see that this isn't just a mere smoking mirror. It's on the same level as when you see a News Anchor man talking to another News reporter live on TV. There is always an audio and sometimes a video delay, but it's still live and not pre-recorded. That's the same as you attending the meeting. Except you will only experience at times video delay. Otherwise, it's pretty neat.

I had the opporotunity to drive an F430 a couple of months ago. Now that is first-hand experience like no other. That is what I would compare with a trial version of software, since I was in the driver's seat, with my hands (and feet) at the controls.

That must have been real nice. Wish I had those connections. But as you know, the Home Use version is still dated 9/7/2004. So, it would make more sense to apply a trial version to an updated version of our Home Use. So, until that happens, count the days.

It's not you describing how it works - it's the fact that you tell us all this marvelous stuff about it, and show a couple of people who manage to make the time for your meetings. But for the rest of us...*shrugs* we get nothing.

Whatever time is acceptable to you, or any other individuals, I will do my best to get around to you. I am trying to schedule the meetings according to my time and the time of as many people that can attend. Kind of hard to do when your half way accross the globe. But I will do them on an individual basis too. Also for everyone else, I will find some machines to take home on the weekend, and setup a meeting for those people who can't make it at the times I post.

So... you say that you're tired of having to repeat the answers to the same questions, and yet you ask me to go back and dig through your posts to find this stuff and have you answer it again?

I don't know if you saw it, but someone flamed me because I keep re-answering the questions directly with another post instead of editing my previous post. Therefore, I'm trying to both answer and edit, and at this point it's hard for you to find the specific answer to your question by going back through the pages. So, it's either I re-direct you to re-read the post, or just answer the question again. And I've taken it upon myself to re-answer you instead of making you go back through all these pages.

Also... have you noticed how this forum has more than just one thread to it? Have you also noticed how everyone else who has participated in this thread has also participated in others.... except you? As much as you say this isn't some sort of advertising, it is... your very first post was about your product, and every single one of the 101 posts of yours after that have been in this thread (I just spent the last minute checking that). It just seems somewhat selfish to focus only on your product in a forum that deals with all kinds of software...(see here for a similar case...)

I'm not trying to make an excuse for my lack thereof in the other threads. But after I make one post in this thread, I get about 5+ post back. And then I have to answer all the questions, read other e-mail I have from other misc. forums like VVTI.net and VVT-I.net, and also be able to do my work. It's a little hard. But I promise, this not going to be my only contribution to MSFN

you're on a market street, and this guy is selling a wonderful back pain curing device. an old geezer comes along and tries it out and he immediately has no worries in the world. honest? or con?

If I was suffering from the same back pain, then I would be at least be curious to know what the heck they did for the guy. And would seek answers, instead of just flat out saying it's a hoax. If it turns out to work, fine. If it's a hoax, fine. The only thing I lost in the process was my time was wasted. I didn't loose any money out of it all. If it was a hoax, then I would put the word out to people to not waste their money. But the POINT is I wouldn't warn anyone until AFTER I got my answers. I don't know how many of you actually saw the whole conference for the PS3 when it hits. They showed all the graphics and talked a lot of technical jargon concerning the Cell Processor that's suppose to be in it. Well, look of it that way. PS3 isn't scheduled to come out till next year. But does that stop Sony from telling you how cool it's going to be? NO. Or stop them from demonstrating the new graphics that Nvidia has been able to come up with? NO. Can you have a PS3 to test out right now? NOT YET! All I'm saying guys is, It's Coming.

Edited by rhythmnsmoke

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yeah, it's getting friggin' boring now

/me busts out of this thread, it's goin' nowhere fast.

since you aren't willing to trust even a single person for a demo on this thing, screw it, even if it becomes the most successful piece of software on the face of the earth, I'll never give you a penny of my money :realmad:

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At the risk of getting trashed again (WTFC?) I am sticking my face back in this thread. I AM a programmer. Don’t know how my skills stack up against others on this board (I am mediocre at best in C++), but I am at least adequate enough for most tasks. I certainly can tell if code is real or not by watching it run. I have also stated that I would not endorse any code’s functionality without actually trying it, but the suggestion that what he shows is faked in patently untrue. I saw the live demo, even asked him to move a particular file (it was calc) and try to execute it. IE did indeed block its execution and remove it from the system, I saw it in real time. There was no way for him to anticipate what file I was going to ask him to use, so if it is a hoax, the hoax is more impressive than the actual code.

Rhythm has apologized for his initial approach so why not cut him a little slack. This board is for exchange of ideas as well as code. Like I said before, watching the demo will maybe not convince you that IE will replace antivirus, but will convince you it is not a hoax done with paint or VB. It is very sophisticated, watching it run makes that readily apparent.

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The difference with Sony and the PS3 is that they're a credible source that has proven themselves. They are a clearly known and defined company and based on past behaviour we have no reason to not trust what they're saying. You have no such past behaviour for us to look at and say "Oh, he must be telling the truth. We should trust him". Does that make sense to you? We don't know you from Adam, so the only way we're going to trust is by trying it for ourselves.

And regardless of how many times you claim it, a demo over the internet is not the same as the real thing and can be faked. You can claim otherwise all you want, but it can be faked. I'm not saying you are, but I'm saying it can be done and as such those of us in the know won't bother to take you up on your offer because we have no way of knowing if what we're seeing is real or not. It's got nothing to do with our ego (well, at least for me it's not and I'm assuming for the others), but it's because we know what can be done with computers and won't trust your software until we can stress test it ourselves.

As an example, my coworker tried to turn me on to NOD32 instead of NAV. I was pretty happy with NAV (except 2k4's bloat) and I didn't even really trust his word on it. But then I "tried it for myself" and have been very happy with it. I didn't even take my coworkers word for it when he suggested a new program, but only believed it after testing it out for myself. What makes you think I'll believe you, a total stranger? I'm sure that same mentality is the reason you find so much resistance here. We don't want to listen to you talk about how great it is, we want to play with it and find out for ourselves. If you wanted to expound the greatness of your companies product, you should have picked someplace less tech-savvy. We don't just take people at their word who haven't proven themselves.

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@dman -

I saw the live demo, even asked him to move a particular file (it was calc) and try to execute it. IE did indeed block its execution and remove it from the system, I saw it in real time. There was no way for him to anticipate what file I was going to ask him to use, so if it is a hoax, the hoax is more impressive than the actual code.

Granted, you were able to see it, but the fact that you didn't try it first hand means that it could very well be simple program that deletes files without any actual logic programmed into the program, simply for the sake of the demo.

@rhythmnsmoke -

You started as Co-CEO then the story changed to the fact that you were a junior programmer for the team and then now you're not even that? So what the hell are you then? Why do you keep changing your story?

Oh and by the way, congratulations, you showed us how you can search the web, copy and paste other web page content and create hyperlink to said copied material. Still haven't proved anything.

Edited by jcarle

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But I promise, this not going to be my only contribution to MSFN

Oh please let it be your last.

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Granted, you were able to see it, but the fact that you didn't try it first hand means that it could very well be simple program that deletes files without any actual logic programmed into the program, simply for the sake of the demo.

So, now I'm faking it again. I'm going through the trouble of creating a program just to fool people and make them believe...COME ON MAN! Let me guess, I faked it authorizing/scanning everything that I touched too. I must have faked the executables that were running in the Task Manager as well. I must have faked executing a program from it's location (to which it ran), then moving it to another part of the system and trying to execute it (to which it didn't ran) and it get eradicated. I also must have faked the forensic data that gets passed back to the admin console. Not to mention, this is happening all in "Real Time". Then to that Sir, I must be one heck of a magician. Not even David Copperfield could pull this one off.

You started as Co-CEO then the story changed to the fact that you were a junior programmer for the team and then now you're not even that? So what the hell are you then? Why do you keep changing your story?

What are you talking about? I never stated that I was the Co-CEO, nor did I ever state that I was a Jr. Programmer for the team....Dude, please..please read the post. I am the Jr. Network Engineer again for the umpteenth time. Gosh man, if you are going to keep making comments without actually reading what I wrote, then why should I insist on replying to you.

Oh and by the way, congratulations, you showed us how you can search the web, copy and paste other web page content and create hyperlink to said copied material. Still haven't proved anything.

Why do you insist on trying to rough my feathers. I just merely posted some terminology and accounts to what I was saying. I'm not trying to be hostile towards you and wish to remain professional on all levels. But, if it makes you feel better to insult me, then to contribute a comment of any value to this thread, then I do not wish to reply to any more of your comments. Save the space for someone who dosen't come off so childish.

PS...I still haven't forgotten the fact that you haven't answered a single one of my questions. Nor have you replied to my PM. Why is that? I'm not trying to blow smoke up your butt. I already assured you that I wouldn't be wasting your time if you attended the meeting. Yet, despite the time you had to create this post, you couldn't have taken the time to answer me.

You have no such past behaviour for us to look at and say "Oh, he must be telling the truth. We should trust him". Does that make sense to you? We don't know you from Adam, so the only way we're going to trust is by trying it for ourselves.

And what reasons do you have to not come to the meeting? It's not like I'm stealing something from you, or trying to convience you to buy anything. So, there is no very "valuable" reason NOT to attend the meeting. Didn't Sony have to start somewhere as a company? They didn't just burst onto the scene and people automatically trusted them. So, you got to start somewhere my friend.

And regardless of how many times you claim it, a demo over the internet is not the same as the real thing and can be faked. You can claim otherwise all you want, but it can be faked. I'm not saying you are, but I'm saying it can be done and as such those of us in the know won't bother to take you up on your offer because we have no way of knowing if what we're seeing is real or not. It's got nothing to do with our ego (well, at least for me it's not and I'm assuming for the others), but it's because we know what can be done with computers and won't trust your software until we can stress test it ourselves.

Then why don't you be the judge for yourself to see if it's fake or not? There was a time when people told Christopher Columbus that they knew the world was flat. But did it stop them from proving that it was round? Wonder how much skeptisim Armstrong recieved for thinking that he would be able to land on the moon? This is still not a good reason to not come to the meeting. You have nothing to loose, but only knowledge to gain. How can you argue with that statement? The meeting session doesn't even require you to download any software to your machine. Again, there is no valuable answer to NOT come to the meeting. I answer all you questions at the time of the meeting, I even make the long distance phone calls on my cell to you. There is absolutely NOTHING you have to loose by watching, except the fact that it works like I say it does, and that you actually learned something that was thought to not be possible, really is.

What makes you think I'll believe you, a total stranger? I'm sure that same mentality is the reason you find so much resistance here. We don't want to listen to you talk about how great it is, we want to play with it and find out for ourselves.

I'm more or less trying to get people to prove to me that it DOSEN'T work. If you can attend the meeting and come back and TRULY say that it was all a hoax, then by all means do so. But don't cry "Foul Play" on something you didn't even take 30 mins of your time to check out. If it's a load of BS, then by all means tell everyone you know, and have the moderators close this thread. But you see, the problem is not on my side of the fence, it's on your side. No one will do that. If you hate to read my so-called "BS" then get it over with already, and just attend the meeting to prove me wrong and tell everyone else that I've had one to many shots to the head. But if you can't do that, or not interested in doing that, then don't try to say that it dosen't work. The manner that I give the presentation in (despite the 1,000's of miles apart and the hardware), is no different than if I was standing right in front of you. You just have to see it for yourself. So, why don't you NOT take my word for it, and just come to the meeting and then post how I'm full of it. Then I would be SOOOO...happy and ready to throw in the gloves and call you victorious. Because, I would rather reply to post of people seeking answers in how it works, rather than spending my time trying to throw stones back and forth with someone who claims it dosen't work and can't prove it. I'm trying to PROVE myself, that's the point. But if you don't allow me the opportunity to do that, then it's not my fault. And the only solution to the problem is for me to give you a free copy...to which I have already been through that and explained the complications along with that.

If you wanted to expound the greatness of your companies product, you should have picked someplace less tech-savvy. We don't just take people at their word who haven't proven themselves.

Ironically, that has nothing to do with the fact of being tech-savvy. I have been a senior member of VVTI.Net since 2000. Despite my longevity their and countless post, when I started working for BBX Technologies, and made one post of how and what we do, I was still meet with the same "You Can't Do That With Microsoft" attitudes. If Mcafee, Symantec, Tred Micro, and other countless signature up-dated software is all you know and someone has told you there is nothing more for years and years, then of course you are going to throw up the BS flag on a small company like BBX saying we got something new. And you don't have to be tech-savvy to say that. Throwing up the BS flag from the start is natural, because you have years of experience and know-how of that this is the "way" and non-other is better. But to continue to throw up the BS flag after the fact that I offered to show it to you but you not take me up on it, is just not justifiable and dosen't make sense. I only wish that you can be fair and just in it all. And at this point, that has not been the route gone. The only reason I can come up with as an explanation for the lack of professionalism coming from certain members is their ego is to big for their own good. Therefore, I'm more or less slandered and insulted and told that I'm full of it(without backing to make such a statement I might add). All I ask is that you slander me AFTER you come to the meeting. Insult me AFTER you come to the meeting. I have 100%, without a doubt that you will not call me a liar, so I can make such a bold statement.

By the way, I have two more people willing to participate. So, when the meeting is over with, they may also give me some credibility. The only one so far that has taken time to say that I'm not full of it is Dman. To which he has been insulted by insinuating that he dosen't know something when he see's it. And that he must have been gullable and easily manipulated.

So, Thanks Dman, for trying. I think two more people on our side should help the cause out some. Thanks for trying to lighten the load I'm recieving and taken some of the heat.

If you want, I'm giving another demo Friday 7/29 after work, if you would like to see it again, just e-mail or PM me again.

Edited by rhythmnsmoke

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@dman -
I saw the live demo, even asked him to move a particular file (it was calc) and try to execute it. IE did indeed block its execution and remove it from the system, I saw it in real time. There was no way for him to anticipate what file I was going to ask him to use, so if it is a hoax, the hoax is more impressive than the actual code.

Granted, you were able to see it, but the fact that you didn't try it first hand means that it could very well be simple program that deletes files without any actual logic programmed into the program, simply for the sake of the demo.

@jcarle, you are programmer, I know. I see you have written some nice utils. You would know if you watched it that it is not fake. It did much more than just delete a file. Let's put it this way, even if it is a fake the programmer that created it is a very good faker.

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