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What you've presented is a very interesting and alluring idea. I think all here would welcome it. What we all don't have a lot of is extra time to give to everything that comes down the pike. That's why all of are interested if we can get our hands on it. You want our time. If you're not promoting snake oil, fine. But we have no way to judge that with what you've presented us. so, you just want to practice answering the inevitable questions.

From the sound of it, you know a certain amount, but either don't know the depths or are unwilling to talk about them. That's what folks here are interested in. How it works. You've alluded to it, talked about a "binary search engine", said you don't maintain any sort of database or "white/black" lists, mentioned complicated algorithms, and lots of very good sounding buzz words. What you haven't done is tell us how it integrates with the computer's architecture (surely divulging this couldn't compromise either the security or your products position), the software architrecture, or anything else. I personally don't give a hoot if some gov't geek thinks its super duper. I want to know how it works.

I know how most AV engines works and in some limited way I know how Windows works. So far you haven;t told me anything, but promised that it is great and you've spent a lot of energy telling me what it is NOT. that's not the same thing.

When I was your age I'd already spent a few years selling advertising to pay for my tuition. That was an education. You may think you're not trying to "sell" something, but that's is exactly what you are doing. Yes, you are being very professionel about your presence, and that is good, but please understand that it is your approach that has set off a lot of folks here. Regardless of your product.

You didn't come in and say, "Hey guys. I work at this neat company and we're working on a neat product which I like to practice presenting to you. What do you think?"

You may have a computer degree and I may not, but you still have some things to learn about people. Have you read Schneier on security? Without any way to evaluate what you claim (other than a live demo which is fine as far as it goes), I'm quite certain he would label you a snakeoil salesman.

Many of us have been there, done that. It doesn't mean your product isn't what it says it is, and I think most here would like it to be what you say it is. The product will speak for itself.

What we want is more real information, not buzz, and the chance to actually fiddle with it. Anything less is asking for our time without rewarding it with more than a ooo isn't that great I wish I could have it feeling. Regardless of your calm, you have nevertheless spoken down to a number of people here and that doesn't go over too well. It also reveals your youth and lack of experience.

Maybe your willing to reveal more than you have, I don't know. I've been testing software for 10 years now and been periphally involved with security for a rew of those years. I think you'd be surprised at some of the folks behind the nicks you see here. I never heard you mention an NDA, many here would be willing to sign one to get their hands on a copy just as I would. However, you don't seem to be in a position to offer anything of the sort. I suggest you go to your superiors and ask for more latitude in your authority before you ask us for more of our time.

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What you've presented is a very interesting and alluring idea. I think all here would welcome it. What we all don't have a lot of is extra time to give to everything that comes down the pike. That's why all of are interested if we can get our hands on it. You want our time. If you're not promoting snake oil, fine. But we have no way to judge that with what you've presented us. so, you just want to practice answering the inevitable questions.

From the sound of it, you know a certain amount, but either don't know the depths or are unwilling to talk about them. That's what folks here are interested in. How it works. You've alluded to it, talked about a "binary search engine", said you don't maintain any sort of database or "white/black" lists, mentioned complicated algorithms, and lots of very good sounding buzz words. What you haven't done is tell us how it integrates with the computer's architecture (surely divulging this couldn't compromise either the security or your products position), the software architrecture, or anything else. I personally don't give a hoot if some gov't geek thinks its super duper. I want to know how it works.

I know how most AV engines works and in some limited way I know how Windows works. So far you haven;t told me anything, but promised that it is great and you've spent a lot of energy telling me what it is NOT. that's not the same thing.

When I was your age I'd already spent a few years selling advertising to pay for my tuition. That was an education. You may think you're not trying to "sell" something, but that's is exactly what you are doing. Yes, you are being very professionel about your presence, and that is good, but please understand that it is your approach that has set off a lot of folks here. Regardless of your product.

You didn't come in and say, "Hey guys. I work at this neat company and we're working on a neat product which I like to practice presenting to you. What do you think?"

You may have a computer degree and I may not, but you still have some things to learn about people. Have you read Schneier on security? Without any way to evaluate what you claim (other than a live demo which is fine as far as it goes), I'm quite certain he would label you a snakeoil salesman.

Many of us have been there, done that. It doesn't mean your product isn't what it says it is, and I think most here would like it to be what you say it is. The product will speak for itself.

What we want is more real information, not buzz, and the chance to actually fiddle with it. Anything less is asking for our time without rewarding it with more than a ooo isn't that great I wish I could have it feeling. Regardless of your calm, you have nevertheless spoken down to a number of people here and that doesn't go over too well. It also reveals your youth and lack of experience.

Maybe your willing to reveal more than you have, I don't know. I've been testing software for 10 years now and been periphally involved with security for a rew of those years. I think you'd be surprised at some of the folks behind the nicks you see here. I never heard you mention an NDA, many here would be willing to sign one to get their hands on a copy just as I would. However, you don't seem to be in a position to offer anything of the sort. I suggest you go to your superiors and ask for more latitude in your authority before you ask us for more of our time.

You have enough time on your hands to compose this weighty tome describing how valuable your time is, and yet none to view what he IS able to display. Interesting time management technique.

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13. No user shall by any means of the forum: sell, trade or give away hardware, software, or any other non consumer electronic related material. MSFN does not support any type of trade and shall not be held accountable.

As far as I can tell no rules are being broken, perhaps the Admins can change the rules

to prevent this type of product hawking in the future though.............

just wonder why u don't invite those interested to your forums to complete your chats???

Once again glad you're an American................you are good and maintain your poise

very well.........I just don't care for your methods, so I will, as a result, not have any

interest in your product............

BD B)

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I wouldn't go with either, I would download the shareware and test myself :P

Hey here's an idea, how about letting some hackers attack your program?

Read previous post. I already said it has been put through attacks with hackers. Quite a number of attacks.

Just a suggestion as opposed to your Live meeting wich I still think is crap.

Suit yourself.

Ahh well since this has turned out to be a I'm right your wrong thing I'm leaving. Was hoping for something usable though ahh well guess I'll be back when it's actually available.

I haven't once boasted about anything. So, who is screaming I'm right you are wrong? I'm just trying to show you something.

Edited by rhythmnsmoke
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What you've presented is a very interesting and alluring idea. I think all here would welcome it. What we all don't have a lot of is extra time to give to everything that comes down the pike. That's why all of are interested if we can get our hands on it. You want our time. If you're not promoting snake oil, fine. But we have no way to judge that with what you've presented us. so, you just want to practice answering the inevitable questions.

From the sound of it, you know a certain amount, but either don't know the depths or are unwilling to talk about them. That's what folks here are interested in. How it works. You've alluded to it, talked about a "binary search engine", said you don't maintain any sort of database or "white/black" lists, mentioned complicated algorithms, and lots of very good sounding buzz words. What you haven't done is tell us how it integrates with the computer's architecture (surely divulging this couldn't compromise either the security or your products position), the software architrecture, or anything else. I personally don't give a hoot if some gov't geek thinks its super duper. I want to know how it works.

I know how most AV engines works and in some limited way I know how Windows works. So far you haven;t told me anything, but promised that it is great and you've spent a lot of energy telling me what it is NOT. that's not the same thing.

When I was your age I'd already spent a few years selling advertising to pay for my tuition. That was an education. You may think you're not trying to "sell" something, but that's is exactly what you are doing. Yes, you are being very professionel about your presence, and that is good, but please understand that it is your approach that has set off a lot of folks here. Regardless of your product.

You didn't come in and say, "Hey guys. I work at this neat company and we're working on a neat product which I like to practice presenting to you. What do you think?"

You may have a computer degree and I may not, but you still have some things to learn about people. Have you read Schneier on security? Without any way to evaluate what you claim (other than a live demo which is fine as far as it goes), I'm quite certain he would label you a snakeoil salesman.

Many of us have been there, done that. It doesn't mean your product isn't what it says it is, and I think most here would like it to be what you say it is. The product will speak for itself.

What we want is more real information, not buzz, and the chance to actually fiddle with it. Anything less is asking for our time without rewarding it with more than a ooo isn't that great I wish I could have it feeling. Regardless of your calm, you have nevertheless spoken down to a number of people here and that doesn't go over too well. It also reveals your youth and lack of experience.

Maybe your willing to reveal more than you have, I don't know. I've been testing software for 10 years now and been periphally involved with security for a rew of those years. I think you'd be surprised at some of the folks behind the nicks you see here. I never heard you mention an NDA, many here would be willing to sign one to get their hands on a copy just as I would. However, you don't seem to be in a position to offer anything of the sort. I suggest you go to your superiors and ask for more latitude in your authority before you ask us for more of our time.

I agree with you well said :)

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You have enough time on your hands to compose this weighty tome describing how valuable your time is, and yet none to view what he IS able to display. Interesting time management technique.

see, the difference being that DonDamm has been around awhile, and has seen his share of snakeoil salesman and yourself, who has seen the "live" demo is DonDamm has the experience to back up his reserve.

I think that's what it boils down to, those of us who've been around computers for way too long have seen alot of stuff come and go.

Some products look nice and shiny, but just don't hold up to the wear and tear of time.

You think Norton wouldn't be interested in engineering something that works like this ImmuneEngine is claiming? Of course they would. They'd be hailed as heros.

However, my dad always said, beware of something that sounds too good to be true. That's exactly what this product sounds like. So please forgive our distrust of an individual that promotes a product that doesn't exist for the general market, and gives us only tidbits of information that sounds somewhat relevant. IF he would up the ante a bit, and trust a reliable member of this board with his software in a similar way that he's asking us to trust him, then he would be showing himself to be of substance. Right now, all he's offering is a bit of hot air.

I've got a wife if I'm wanting to hear a bunch of hot air, thank you :whistle:

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You have enough time on your hands to compose this weighty tome describing how valuable your time is, and yet none to view what he IS able to display. Interesting time management technique.

see, the difference being that DonDamm has been around awhile, and has seen his share of snakeoil salesman and yourself, who has seen the "live" demo is DonDamm has the experience to back up his reserve.

I think that's what it boils down to, those of us who've been around computers for way too long have seen alot of stuff come and go.

Some products look nice and shiny, but just don't hold up to the wear and tear of time.

You think Norton wouldn't be interested in engineering something that works like this ImmuneEngine is claiming? Of course they would. They'd be hailed as heros.

However, my dad always said, beware of something that sounds too good to be true. That's exactly what this product sounds like. So please forgive our distrust of an individual that promotes a product that doesn't exist for the general market, and gives us only tidbits of information that sounds somewhat relevant. IF he would up the ante a bit, and trust a reliable member of this board with his software in a similar way that he's asking us to trust him, then he would be showing himself to be of substance. Right now, all he's offering is a bit of hot air.

I've got a wife if I'm wanting to hear a bunch of hot air, thank you :whistle:

Thank you for clearing that up for me. You must be clairvoyant to discern my level of experience with no information provided on my part. That must be how you know this code is BS without even availing yourself of the information that IS available. Guess I will take my MCP’s and 20+ years in various tech positions and slink away now. NOT!

If you bother to read my posts, I clearly state that I would not consider this code a viable solution without testing it myself. I bought no snake-oil, I simply viewed a presentation on a piece of code that sounds and appears to be very interesting, presented at no cost to me by a very polite gentleman who never tried to sell me anything. Meanwhile you have spent countless hours of your precious time making posts deriding this guy without even working up the curiosity to find out what it is you are mocking. Think of how much more effective your posts would be when you could specifically debunk his claims point by point!

By the way, he is also not demanding your time or asking you to trust him. He never tried to make me say this was the greatest thing I ever saw. Just inviting you to watch his demo. If you aren’t interested why are you wasting so much time here?

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http://www.techweb.com/wire/26800750 is from 2003 and it states:

BBX Technologies demo'd its ImmuneEngine security software, which takes a different tack than other anti-virus, anti-worm, anti-malware products. ImmuneEngine locks down servers and PCs by creating an independent operating layer around Windows; detects and deletes unauthorized executables; and if unsuccessful at stopping the attack from starting, tries to put a halt to the executable. Unlike most other products put on the DEMO stage, ImmuneEngine is available now, at prices that range from $175 per desktop/laptop to $20,000 per server.

Interesting that I can't seem to purchase it in 2005 for a desktop......

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1660883,00.asp again, from 2003

where's the current buzz? and where do I purchase?

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so 20 or 30 people who attend your live meeting are credible, but that many of my neighbors saying Fortres is good isn't credible?

The logic: 20 or 30 people whom you spend possible 4+ hrs. a day conversing about all topics dealing with computers. To whom you have developed trust in and believe what they say. To whom you find credible because of you history and interaction with.

Or the neighbors down the road whom more than likely you only have spoken to once or twice within a month. To which it more than likely was not about IT, or computer security. To which you probably have never spent the amount of time mingling with as much as you do talking to people on this board.

So, naturally the people whom you have listen to on multiple occassions on other issues, you are more than likely are going to put more weight on what they say, vs. what your neighbor (you rarely ever talk to) would say.

It's all a matter of opinion, your opinion is that yours is the best.

In this case, it is more along the lines of me trying to describe to you how the software is different than current technology today, and you saying it's not without even seeing it. And when I state factual knowledge of what it can do, you say that I'm living in a fantasy world. Again, without actually seeing it.

The reason I'm skeptical is there is NOT a huge buzz going around IT departments about this softare, maybe a tiny peep here and there.

just because 3 major companies have reps that say it's the best doesn't prove a thing.

I think, sir, that you are trying to create a buzz.

Before Live Meeting, all I could do was just tell you about the software, to which I would recieve the same skeptisim. But now I can actually show you it. And yet you would perfer to spend hours post skeptical comments instead of 30mins. watching me demonstrate the functionality of the software. I am willing to accept that you find it fictional, and smoking mirrors. But what you are not prepared to accept is the POSSIBILITY that it does what I say it does. Why is that?

And to answer you question about the limited number of buzz going around. Tell me this sir. IF you were responsible for 10's of millions of dollars invested into a multi billion dollar industry to which everyone (AV Conglomerates) is racing to see who can make their automatic virus signature updates the fastest (based on technology that's about a decade old), and then some small company from Nashville, TN of all places, comes in and says we did away with virus signature updates, you don't need them anymore. Do you really think you are going to welcome us with open arms? Do you think you would run to all your clients to have them discard your old AV? ALL that money being invested into signature updated technology and us coming along saying it's no longer necessary will make a whole lot of people upset. Despite the investment money put into creating signature updated software, you just made their R&D spending go into the negative. I have seen coutless situations where companies were a little scared to just discard their AV software, because someone high up will get an ear full from their AV supplier to whom they have been supplied with for years upon years.

I do hope you are right, but I think what your are doing has been tried before (8 years ago or so) and that failed, so I think my skeptiscism is warranted.

There is a little saying my mom use to tell me when I younger to which I live by. "You never fail till you stop trying". Well, sir it took our chief programmer 10 yrs. to get where we are today. I have been around long enough to see it evolve through 3 generations (not in years, but in functionality of the software).

And no, I'm not simply here to bust chops, however, all I'm seeing is a smokescreen so far, I hope to see a real deal in the future

Why don't you hope to see it NOW, and hope to play with it in the near future?

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What you've presented is a very interesting and alluring idea. I think all here would welcome it. What we all don't have a lot of is extra time to give to everything that comes down the pike. That's why all of are interested if we can get our hands on it. You want our time. If you're not promoting snake oil, fine. But we have no way to judge that with what you've presented us. so, you just want to practice answering the inevitable questions.

From the sound of it, you know a certain amount, but either don't know the depths or are unwilling to talk about them. That's what folks here are interested in. How it works. You've alluded to it, talked about a "binary search engine", said you don't maintain any sort of database or "white/black" lists, mentioned complicated algorithms, and lots of very good sounding buzz words. What you haven't done is tell us how it integrates with the computer's architecture (surely divulging this couldn't compromise either the security or your products position), the software architrecture, or anything else. I personally don't give a hoot if some gov't geek thinks its super duper. I want to know how it works.

I know how most AV engines works and in some limited way I know how Windows works. So far you haven;t told me anything, but promised that it is great and you've spent a lot of energy telling me what it is NOT. that's not the same thing.

When I was your age I'd already spent a few years selling advertising to pay for my tuition. That was an education. You may think you're not trying to "sell" something, but that's is exactly what you are doing. Yes, you are being very professionel about your presence, and that is good, but please understand that it is your approach that has set off a lot of folks here. Regardless of your product.

You didn't come in and say, "Hey guys. I work at this neat company and we're working on a neat product which I like to practice presenting to you. What do you think?"

You may have a computer degree and I may not, but you still have some things to learn about people. Have you read Schneier on security? Without any way to evaluate what you claim (other than a live demo which is fine as far as it goes), I'm quite certain he would label you a snakeoil salesman.

Many of us have been there, done that. It doesn't mean your product isn't what it says it is, and I think most here would like it to be what you say it is. The product will speak for itself.

What we want is more real information, not buzz, and the chance to actually fiddle with it. Anything less is asking for our time without rewarding it with more than a ooo isn't that great I wish I could have it feeling. Regardless of your calm, you have nevertheless spoken down to a number of people here and that doesn't go over too well. It also reveals your youth and lack of experience.

Maybe your willing to reveal more than you have, I don't know. I've been testing software for 10 years now and been periphally involved with security for a rew of those years. I think you'd be surprised at some of the folks behind the nicks you see here. I never heard you mention an NDA, many here would be willing to sign one to get their hands on a copy just as I would. However, you don't seem to be in a position to offer anything of the sort. I suggest you go to your superiors and ask for more latitude in your authority before you ask us for more of our time.

Your approach is respectable. I have learned my lesson from this. The next tech board I come across will be more along the lines of the approach that you suggested. I will less and less try to sound like a salesmen. I am not a salesman, and I'm not trying to get you to buy the software (just for the record). However, here lies the problem. I drive the car, maintain it, change it's tires if they feel misaligned, etc... What I didn't do is build it. I'm not the programmer, therefore any ends and outs of the software would be better answered by the guy who actually built it. He is the Co-CEO of the company, therefore you won't find him on some tech chat forum. Now do you see how this is not a medium for our advertising. The software sells itself. I don't have to try and sell anything to you. For record, my official job title here is Jr. Network Engineer. But that title is somewhat out of context to what I actually do here. If you want the nuts and bolts of how the software interacts with the OS, then you have to ASK nuts and bolts questions. NO ONE is doing that. Instead it's the "smart comments" of how its BS.

NOW, what I can do is relay messages. I am the 3rd man down on the food chain in the IT department from the man himself. You can ask me those nuts and bolt questions, and if I happen to not know the answer to that specific question, then I can find it out for you and explain it to you. But no one is asking me those important questions to begin with. I would so LOVE to give you those answers. Also, most of those answers to those nuts and bolt questions that you have pondering in your head, could very well be answered by the presentation. One thing I have learned about the ends and outs of this buisness is that you don't put things in writing without an NDA. I have been very careful in what I say here because of the simple reason of the non-presence of an NDA. With that in mind, I feel more comfortable if I where to set up a live meeting and verbally communicate things to you. That's why I have been pushing the live meeting so bad. Simply, anyone can deny ever saying something, but you can't fake that you wrote, or typed that.

Last but not final...This thread has gone on for 14+ pages. I have responded to numerous critics and still have hung in there. I have made one believer, and I'm willing to make more. Now, ask yourself this would ANY person who is a sane individual carry this on if it was merely just a sharade? In the history of this forum, has there been anyone who has carried on this long, and whole heartedly believe in something so much that he carried it this far, and it was all smokin mirrors when eveything was said and done? All I ask is 30 mins. of your time and just a smiggin of curiousty. I gurantee you sir that I will not waste your time. I will try to answer those questions that I can't here. And that you will walk in the meeting with nothing, and come out with something to think about. (now that sounded like a sales pitch...LOL)

*EDIT* I graduated from TTU in Cookeville, TN with degree in MIS.

Edited by rhythmnsmoke
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http://www.techweb.com/wire/26800750 is from 2003 and it states:

BBX Technologies demo'd its ImmuneEngine security software, which takes a different tack than other anti-virus, anti-worm, anti-malware products. ImmuneEngine locks down servers and PCs by creating an independent operating layer around Windows; detects and deletes unauthorized executables; and if unsuccessful at stopping the attack from starting, tries to put a halt to the executable. Unlike most other products put on the DEMO stage, ImmuneEngine is available now, at prices that range from $175 per desktop/laptop to $20,000 per server.

Interesting that I can't seem to purchase it in 2005 for a desktop......

http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1660883,00.asp again, from 2003

where's the current buzz? and where do I purchase?

That was two years ago. And those prices are for the network version. Why would a company sell a product 2 years ago, and then just up and stop selling it? That is not what happened here. The home ver. has not been for sale like this. I've been here for over a year, and have not seen a slight push in sales for the home market. The focus of the company is to takle the current contracts in hand. Then we take another step forward to that market. You gain market, not simply just spring up out of no where and start selling.

*EDIT* Visit CDWG and do a search and put in the search "BBX". I am not sure if that pricing is correct or not, I don't involve myself in the selling of the product.

Edited by rhythmnsmoke
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13. No user shall by any means of the forum: sell, trade or give away hardware, software, or any other non consumer electronic related material. MSFN does not support any type of trade and shall not be held accountable.

As far as I can tell no rules are being broken, perhaps the Admins can change the rules

to prevent this type of product hawking in the future though.............

just wonder why u don't invite those interested to your forums to complete your chats???

Once again glad you're an American................you are good and maintain your poise

very well.........I just don't care for your methods, so I will, as a result, not have any

interest in your product............

BD  B)

I'm cool with that, because I'm sure ImmuneEngine will cross your path again. Have a good day.

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see, the difference being that DonDamm has been around awhile, and has seen his share of snakeoil salesman and yourself, who has seen the "live" demo is DonDamm has the experience to back up his reserve.

So, If I make DonDamm into a non-skeptic. What then? Would that then spark that flame of curiosity in you? Is that what it's going to take for the rest of you? Will you nominate DonDamm as your representative to go seek the truth and the rest of you will follow suite. If so, THEN DonDamm come on down. I will send you a PM and you can be the person that bridges the gap between the skeptics and me.

However, my dad always said, beware of something that sounds too good to be true.  That's exactly what this product sounds like.

Applicable only if someon is trying to get you to buy something. I'm only trying to show it to you. You don't lose out on anything just by watching.

IF he would up the ante a bit, and trust a reliable member of this board with his software in a similar way that he's asking us to trust him, then he would be showing himself to be of substance. Right now, all he's offering is a bit of hot air.

I've got a wife if I'm wanting to hear a bunch of hot air, thank you :whistle:

One step at a time sir. Watch the live demo to see exaclty what you will be dealing with before you try to get a free copy just so you can tell your friends about it.

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