Feb 1, 2019, the world is scheduled to end....

[un4given1]

DigeratiPrime: Very well educated answer.

[XtremeMaC]

:offtopic: are these wikipedia links generated automatically? or do ppl go & search for them?

[Rick]

Religion itself is an example of an evolutionary meme. Christianity was not the first religion, but it evolved into a very aggressive one. The natural insecurities of man feed his attachment to absolute truth. Man invented religion from Cognitive Dissonance. Ignorance is bliss, and most humans don’t want to ponder the truth. What is the truth? Unless you like to be spoon-fed that answer, it's not so easy to swallow.

Nobody knows for sure whether Christianity was the first religion or not. We do know that there is evidence of other religions throughout history and even the Christian Bible talks about these religions. We also know that many ancient religions had similar beliefs as Christianity but who influenced who?

Could it be that we were created with a desire to have soemthing more? Is it an evolutionary development or possibly a created, inborn, desire to have relationship with the creator? Neither of us can prove, scientifically, one way or the other. But you must at least entertain the possiblities.

Humans have an unconscious motivation for pleasure. Religion in particular is about comfort and assurance.

How do you explain the countless people who have died or been severaly beaten in the name of Christianity (and other religions) with the opportunity to recant? Our basic drives would tell us to recant and live. Afterall, that is evolutionary.

Rick

[un4given1]

Nobody knows for sure whether Christianity was the first religion or not.

Hm... doesn't this contradict your beliefs?

How do you explain the countless people who have died or been severaly beaten in the name of Christianity (and other religions) with the opportunity to recant?

The same way you would explain the people who would endure this in the name of their country or their family. It's the pride we begin to feel for something that we believe in.

[Zxian]

Just pointing out (not to stop this thread... I think it's going quite well) but the title of the thread was regarding a meteor hitting the earth, and the discussion has turned into a good religious debate.

I believe in what I see and what I've experienced. Everything that I've seen so far in my life I have been able to reason with science and math (Mathematics was traditionally thought of as an art - interesting that it's used extensively in science).

While Christianity (in its many forms) was the dominant ruling power in Europe, scientists were punished and executed for discoveries that ran against the readings of the bible. For example when Copernicus spoke of the idea that the Earth was not the centre of the universe, he was accused of blasphemy without even so much as a chance to prove his findings. There are several other examples of astronomers in particular who were also treated in this manner.

One of the parts from Christianity (for example) that I don't like is how two people who analyzed the Bible found completely different lineages between David and Jesus. The number of generations found by one was nearly double the other (45ish-25ish, I can't remember exactly), and neither had any common relatives. I just don't like how people can derive such different conclusions from one reference, and this is what millions of people follow.

As for proving that an atom exists, yes we actually can do that, and we can prove that even smaller structures exist (read up on Quarks, neutrinos, etc). As for other things that we do not know of yet (such as how gravity works), physicists are working on various theories to discover the truth about it, instead of simply giving up and saying that "someone else took care of it for us". The constant question of "why" is what drives us forward to find new ideas and methods. Without the "why" none of us would have a computer to sit infront of to discuss this in this manner.

I'll end this here to keep things short (as DigeratiPrime said). I can always add more later.

[Rick]

Hm... doesn't this contradict your beliefs?

Sure it contradicts my beliefs...IF I'm wrong about this whole deal called Christianity. I have examined evidence both scientific and historical which bring me to the point that I am convinced that Christianity is indeed correct. Further, I believe that it was the very first religion, but my point above was that we cannot, reliably, look back to the beginning of time from a historical standpoint and deduce that Christiantiy is a religion pasted together by other, more ancient religions or vice versa.

Now I know your next question..."If you are saying that we don't know then how can you say that Chrstianity is the original?" For that...you have to take a look at the abundance of other information. The logic follows that if I have found the Bible to be accurate and I believe that it is all true, then I have to believe that God did indeed create us and that Christianity was the first.

While Christianity (in its many forms) was the dominant ruling power in Europe, scientists were punished and executed for discoveries that ran against the readings of the bible.

I don't think it's really fair to look at this and say, "Well, Christianity must be wrong because it's an evil religion." I happen to believe that God created what we call Christianity, not a person or people. However, there have been many people who have tried to play God in the past. This does not make it right for them or even justifiable. Many have used Christianity for their political gain and powerful. For instance, pre-Martin Luther, no person other than a cleric or monk could read or touch the Bible nor participate in the Sacrements. This was clearly wrong and very much against Biblical teaching. Jesus really lambasted these same kinds of "religious", legalistic, overly-fundamental people by calling them a "brood of vipers." (It was 2000 years ago so give the Bible a break on the cheesy language here .) Remember this...we are very imperfect people and are very prone to screwing it up every time.

Enough for now.

Rick <><

[Zxian]

While Christianity (in its many forms) was the dominant ruling power in Europe, scientists were punished and executed for discoveries that ran against the readings of the bible.

I don't think it's really fair to look at this and say, "Well, Christianity must be wrong because it's an evil religion." I happen to believe that God created what we call Christianity, not a person or people. However, there have been many people who have tried to play God in the past. This does not make it right for them or even justifiable. Many have used Christianity for their political gain and powerful. For instance, pre-Martin Luther, no person other than a cleric or monk could read or touch the Bible nor participate in the Sacrements. This was clearly wrong and very much against Biblical teaching. Jesus really lambasted these same kinds of "religious", legalistic, overly-fundamental people by calling them a "brood of vipers." (It was 2000 years ago so give the Bible a break on the cheesy language here .) Remember this...we are very imperfect people and are very prone to screwing it up every time.

Enough for now.

Rick <><

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that Christianity is in any way evil. All I'm saying is, as you pointed out, it has been used for personal benefit and power. If you look into some of the discussion revolving the second and third Matrix movies, there were a lot of overtones referring to religion as a way to control the masses. This is all that I was getting at with my example of historical scientists. They were criticized for their findings, and because the Church had control, they were hated by the masses.

Just to put myself in the right place in others' minds, everyone has a right to their own opinion. There's no arguing that. I think that passing ideas and beliefs back and forth is very constuctive because it allows us to understand others as well as ourselves much better. Keep it friendly and everyone goes home happy.

[un4given1]

I believe that everyone has a right to their own religion as well. I find some of the practices of different religions to be funny or ridiculous, but it doesn't mean that I don't believe that people should be allowed to follow those beliefs. I simply enjoy debate. If done properly it really tells you about a person and helps you weed out the thinkers and the ones that drift through life.

[Rick]

there were a lot of overtones referring to religion as a way to control the masses.

An opium for the masses...hmmm...I've heard that before.

Just to put myself in the right place in others' minds, everyone has a right to their own opinion. There's no arguing that. I think that passing ideas and beliefs back and forth is very constuctive because it allows us to understand others as well as ourselves much better. Keep it friendly and everyone goes home happy.

I believe that everyone has a right to their own religion as well. I find some of the practices of different religions to be funny or ridiculous, but it doesn't mean that I don't believe that people should be allowed to follow those beliefs. I simply enjoy debate. If done properly it really tells you about a person and helps you weed out the thinkers and the ones that drift through life.

I couldn't agree more and believe me...there's a lot of weirdness among Christians...like the snake handling among some groups? I just don't get that at all but if that's what floats their boat...

Edited June 8, 2005 by Rick

[KJxp]

I've got a little time up here in Montana, so I've posted two articles somebody gave me...

OK, so maybe "he" doesn't... but why does he need 10% of my money?  If he takes 10% then can't I just pay, live my life the way I want and still get into your precious "heaven?"  If I believe in "him" and trust in "him" as my "lord and savior" won't that be enough...  "For god so loved the world that he gave his only son so that we may blah blah blah..."  So if "god" looks at me and is supposed to see "jesus" then where's the problem here?  If he died for my sins then shouldn't I get my money's worth?  I'm sure you will find some circular logic to try to sway that one... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why Did Jesus Die? - http://www.leaderu.com/isr/articles_resour...idjesusdie.html

The old testiment states "An eye for an eye..." The new testiment states "Forgive thy neighbor" Um... I could list nearly 100 inconsistencies in the bible. OK, so let's just assume that the bible is a novel written by someone and it's their own idea of what happened..

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There's a big difference between the Old Testament and the New Testament. Not only were they written at different times, but the New Testament was written after Christ came to earth and taught us the way we should live.

One of the parts from Christianity (for example) that I don't like is how two people who analyzed the Bible found completely different lineages between David and Jesus. The number of generations found by one was nearly double the other (45ish-25ish, I can't remember exactly), and neither had any common relatives. I just don't like how people can derive such different conclusions from one reference, and this is what millions of people follow.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Scientific Evidence for the Existence of God - http://www.layhands.com/ScientificEvidenceOfGod.htm

Name an inconsistency in the Bible, please. I really would like to know what you guys see as inconsistent.

[DigeratiPrime]

:offtopic: are these wikipedia links generated automatically? or do ppl go & search for them?

I add them manually when i think the word is important enough. Very easy to do with Firefox and BBCode.

I happen to believe that God created what we call Christianity, not a person or people.

Consider which is more likely: "God created man in his image" or "Man created god in his image", and the motivations for the latter.

As someone mentioned The Matrix definetly had religous overtones, but it also thundered the idea that most people prefer to be lied to. The machines knew this, its explained that's one reason they had to create the matrix; just giving humans what they really wanted. People care more about being comfortable than being true.

I used this quote in another topic, but it apply's here as well:

"it is easier for the world to accept a simple lie than a complex truth." - Alexis de Tocqueville

Just to be clear im not against religion or spirituality. Im against corporatized religion, lying, and hypocrisy.

Edited June 13, 2005 by DigeratiPrime

[Jeremy]

If they've detected it now, then they've got 14 years to plan on how to avoid the collision. That's way more time than they had in Armageddon...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

lolllll

[Rick]

Im against corporatized religion, lying, and hypocrisy.

I 100% agree with this statement and the New Testament of the Christian Bible shows how Christ was also against "the establishment". He got really ticked off at people who were making the church a "den of robbers" and lamblasted those political church leaders who made the church a place of rules rather than a place of love.

Rick

[tiusic]

Im against corporatized religion, lying, and hypocrisy.

I 100% agree with this statement and the New Testament of the Christian Bible shows how Christ was also against "the establishment". He got really ticked off at people who were making the church a "den of robbers" and lamblasted those political church leaders who made the church a place of rules rather than a place of love.

Rick

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Its funny how off track a disscusion can become. I read an article recently that said in 10 years, permanent, irreversable climate change will be upon us . Even if we act now and completely stop using oil and all the other crap we put into the atmosphere, we'd be lucky to live sustainably. That commet won't affect us, but we're screwed anyway. If the global tempature doesn't make an about turn within 10 years (virtually impossible with people like Bush in power ) the Greenland iceshelf will melt and raise the sea level by over a meter, this will be completely irreversable!!! The world is on the brink of destruction and here we are, arguing about political correctness. However, I am writing a paper on how physics can be used to prove logically that we have a soul (that's just my word for this... thing that isn't made of matter or energy but must be there 'watching' us), god though is another matter enirely.

Edited June 20, 2005 by tiusic

[Blam-O!]

OK, so where all going to die, and I am going to heaven. Hope to see you there!

Can we all move along now?

Edit: just about died reading this long thread, lol.

Edited June 23, 2005 by Blam-O!