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cyberthug

question on windows updated vs. unofficial..

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hey...

i just now saw that when i goto the win update site, there's plenty that my windows need to be up2date..

but after installing the unoffical SP 1.6.2? it gives an error...

I wanted to know if the unofficial SP covers those updates which were displayed on the win website, or should i be finding a way to slipstream or just save them on my new win98 cd.???

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You could try being official. Maybe using official software and then you would be able to download official updates. It's just a suggestion. :D

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true that bullet..

but i don't usually update my windows98..

it runs just fine without them actually.. but since i'm in a situation where i can download them (normally my net speed doesn't allow me to download too much.. crappy dialup)

so just wanted to know if the unoffcial SP does the work thhat alll the offical updates do.

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well the service pack is good for those that have crappy internet and for those that don't wnat to do those things that it does it for you

if you got a real good internet and wanna do all the things the sp can do then go official n do it yourself but don't use beta sp's only official unoficial sp's

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The unofficial 1.6.2 SP for Win 98 SE had a bug that would disable windows update from working. You had to run a few commands like "regsvr" or something to fix it.

Just live with it because you are only missing a few minor updates from the windows update site.

Or install the unoffical 2.0b2 sp. It does not have the windows update bug and it's been working well for me for a while now.

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but it lacks the uninstall features so you can't uninstall it,just wait till official 2.0 gets released

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i have the unofficial sp 1.6.2 running on 2 systems which both allowed me to update from windows update without running regsrv.

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but for me it happend i had to run the regsrv from all pc's

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but for me it happend i had to run the regsrv from all pc's

i applied it after a clean install in the order of:

windows 98 setup

drivers

sp 1.6.2

at what step did you apply it?

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you can always prove to yourself how thorough SeSp is by running BixFix, which provides all windows & office updates through its own site/client:

[...]

and btw the patches download/install much faster thru BigFix than thru MS.

If such a "magic" system existed, we all wouldn't be here!

Just for the record:

There is NOTHING WHATSOEVER like the SP which at this point is still undergoing "growing pains" as we add even more frills to it. The fact is that most of the patches provided by it have been "mislaid" by MS over the years. The relatively "minor" collection of files that were ever offered by MS is merely a "component" of the SP which itself breaks down into roughly the following:

1) Hotfixes "freely offered" by MS for 98SE today. This is itself a composite of several sub-components:

a) Ongoing available hotfixes that they haven't yet "lost" in terms of making them generally available to just about anyone with a net connection. [Apparently, there are some of us who don't yet grasp just how little this represents as compared to the whole SP project!]

b) Files that used to be in a) but no longer are. Made available by certain individuals such as myself who shall remain nameless.

c) Relatively recently added fixes actually made available by MS, or at least they are currently until they wind up in the b) category.

d) [There is at least one of these, or so it was yesterday] latest updates promised for availability but only by Windows Update, but in fact not yet available; if MS doesn't deliver on this fairly soon, perhaps some pressure can be exerted to obtain this.

e) Updates formerly in d) but now available, but only from Windows Update. [Officially, anyway "only" available from Windows Update.]

f) Updates available, but they are claimed to only be for other versions of Windows. This in turn involves several sub-categories:

I) Files which are seemingly designed for other 9x-type systems [such as ME] that if you "dissect" them you find that the "innards" works fine on 98SE. Thus, the only reason they don't work for on 98SE is because of a deliberately inappropriate restriction of the hotfix's installer that can be gotten around using a non-standard procedure that works not only on the intended Windows system, but on 98SE as well without otherwise any problems. This usually involves something like merely running an executable within the hotfix, which generally is a self-extracting archive with command line options to merely extract, etc. or you can use something like Power Archiver on it to get to the same place, etc.

II) Similar to I) except that you have to right-click INSTALL on an "inner" component, generally a .inf file to get the installation going.

III) Similar to I) except that the hotfix is for an NT-family version and cannot be directly run even if dissected. May possibly be similar to II), but some can only be implemented by using a key set of files found within the hotfix and manually placed into 98SE usually while in shutdown DOS mode due to file protection, etc.

g) Files recommended by MS as workarounds for the fact that there is no general fix for a problem; the files are generally themselves available. An example of this is that MS will NOT FIX the general implementation of h.323 protocol in 9x, but apparently did in most other Windows. However, in their opinion, the only client application for this feature in NetMeeting, for which they re-released a version that is claimed to be immune to the security problem. In this case, the protocol involves sending voice packets over the Internet; whether you get any problems with other programs YMMV with regard to problems, etc. Thus, this sub-category is more of a band-aid than a hotfix as a lame excuse for the latter, etc.

h) Files that have NEVER been generally available from MS. This in turn comes in two sub-varieties: Documented and un-documented. The documented ones use fanciful language which adds up to a "stonewall" in effect saying that they have it and you don't, and tough on you. Several posters have indicated some partial success prying some of these updates out of MS and "contributing" them to the SP project. The un-documented ones exist but either have no current documentation or their documentation has been "discontinued". In some instances there are no longer any write-ups on them within the MS KB, but some of us have read the KB articles when they did exist, and in some cases even had a freely obtainable download way back then... In some other cases, they apparently were NEVER available as opposed to "merely" being CURRENTLY unavailable. Yet, some of us, who again shall remain nameless, have "contributed" them to the SP project, etc. There are "interesting" stories about how these updates were "stumbled" upon, but this is not a topic for discussion on this forum, etc. All I can personally recommend is to always look where something could be; sometimes you find the unexpected!

In some instances there are documentation "discrepancies" where problems are stated as never to be fixed, contemplating some newer version of something, such as entire Windows [for example, fixed in ME with the implied suggestion to abandon 98SE and instead purchase/upgrade to ME, etc.] thus suggesting there is no available hotfix for the problem, yet the truth is that there actually IS a relevant hotfix, sometimes identified as the binary associated with the article whose verbiage is claiming the binary doesn't exist!

2) There is another wholely different component to the SP that by its nature is NOT available, namely advances to what 98SE actually is. In most instances these are either third-party files that are generally available for download; fair use would seem to be consistent as the SP merely makes it easier to install them; the result would be the same as the more straight-forward installation of these packages, but would require the user's time, bandwidth, or expertise better handled within the SP itself as an attempt to be a "catch-all" for all relevant problems, etc. Alternatively, some of these are MS files that are not "intended" for the purpose put to, but in point of fact they do work and in some way enhance the overall 98SE product. In some case producing what some would describe as a "Frankenstein" of Windows features taken from other versions such as ME and/or Win2000 or even possibly WinXP including SP2.

Many in this category are being argued for/against by people on this forum because of their personal opinion about just what the SP ought to consist of, not that the add-ons themselves shouldn't be made available somehow. Some are arguing over the IMHO relatively myopic notion that it makes the overall size of the SP "too big". Proper design of the SP can virtually eliminate this argument by being provided in modular form; in essence, if the component isn't present or you don't want it, either delete it from the SP install directory and/or invoke some form of command-line or other option to prevent it, and you never needed to download it if that bothers you. For others, bandwidth is a non-issue: Please note that WinXP Service Pack 2 consists of a SINGLE EXECUTABLE FILE that is 266 MB long! Sorta makes arguments about whether the SP is 15 MB or 18 MB or even 50 MB pale by comparison! With the work of some people, "master" versions could also be made on a CD image suitable for burning from say, an ISO image, etc. For certain people, this would be the preferred method, totally avoiding download. It would be useful to allow such a method to have the ability to make small updates to the overall image to create more recent descendants without having to do the entire monster download again. There are successful other vaguely analogous projects like ours such as AutoPatcher for XP which support the idea of an update as opposed to a complete download, etc.

There is another more intangible aspect of the SP as well: A lot of input goes to testing out interaction between the various hotfixes et al. The SP is clearly an important step to preventing negative interactions as it can implement specific combinations that are known to only work either as the specific collection they have become, or alternatively, it provides a framework to guarantee they are applied in a critical order known to work. There are numerous examples of critical interactions that have perhaps only a few acceptable install orders yet numerous ways to screw up if merely casually installed due to interaction. The SP can fixate the order to prevent this sort of problem.

Additionally, the list of problems addressed in some MS KB articles [many of which are already documented on Gape's website] does NOT imply that the hotfixes that the articles refer to are actually present. This is either because to actually implement the hotfix may be impossible because it's not available [to anyone we know] but has been replaced with a superset hotfix that includes what was implied in the article along with additional fixes addressed in an alternate KB article, etc., or it's merely redundant, albeit harmless. In some instances it is actually DANGEROUS to actually implement the stated KB article because the provided hotfix is supplied by MS with a defective installer or flawed registry settings. The SP gives you the intended fixes but sidesteps the negative consequences of the MS-provided binary hotfixes.

Thus, an invaluable aspect of the SP is how to judiciously apply WHICH particular updates and in which order, to provide the benefit implied in the MS KB articles, yet avoiding the unintended "side effects" you get doing it MS's way, etc.

Much of the schema described here comes from the work of many individuals; this is a form of "community effort" for which we need to thank our forum hosts for providing the communications platform, etc. Without all of this feedback, the SP would be quite different from what it NOW is!

cjl

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Re: Win98se -----Where exactly does one go to get all of the very latest unofficial updates in one smooth download ? Sometimes the forum confuses me. I don't want to pick through files I don't understand. Give me a link I can save and I can go there every 3 or 4 months and see if it's a larger download. Thanks ......... Alan

Edited by Stuckin98

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