j2se runtime environment 5.0 update 22

[awkduck]

20 minutes ago, justacruzr2 said:

I guess it's worth a try to just delete those lines out of the bat file tonight and retry the install.  Any thought about that?

It's worth a shot. It is hard to deny, the issue is machine/environment specific.

If this installer supports it, you could have it create a log file:

/L C:\<path>setup.log

Just add that at the end. Perhaps it would log why it is deciding to do what it is doing.

[justacruzr2]

1 hour ago, awkduck said:

It's worth a shot. It is hard to deny, the issue is machine/environment specific.

If this installer supports it, you could have it create a log file:

/L C:\<path>setup.log

Just add that at the end. Perhaps it would log why it is deciding to do what it is doing.

Great idea.  Didn't know about that switch.  And I agree, seems that everyone else can install it but me.  I would figure that an install would look at either the Install or Uninstall key in the registry to see whether it's installed yet....not the autoexec.bat file but I have seen some unusual ways of doing things.  Let you know tomorrow.

[awkduck]

3 hours ago, justacruzr2 said:

seems that everyone else can install it but me

There always seems to be something.

Once removed a network card driver and, on reboot, Windows wouldn't load. Turns out the firewall software was tied to it, with its own driver.

On another machine, I lose USB if I install Scitech Display Doctor or Scitech Snap Display drivers. If you don't realize the chain of events, right away, it can take a while to figure things out.

[schwups]

I realised that this Java folder - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Java\ - can also cause problems. Rename or delete this folder.
And look for msi, jusched and java log files in the Windows temp folder.

[justacruzr2]

18 hours ago, awkduck said:

There always seems to be something.

Once removed a network card driver and, on reboot, Windows wouldn't load. Turns out the firewall software was tied to it, with its own driver.

On another machine, I lose USB if I install Scitech Display Doctor or Scitech Snap Display drivers. If you don't realize the chain of events, right away, it can take a while to figure things out.

Yep.  Well that idea (autoexec.bat) didn't work.  And it never produced a log file.  Must not have gone far enough along to put anything useful in it.  I did go to Oracle's java documentation archive and tried to use one of the switches they mention.  STATIC=1 .     What that does is prevent an older version of java from being overwritten by the new install in case older software requires the use of that previous version.   I have no older version on there but I thought I would give that a try.  Didn't help.  The only Java that exists on 98se right now is the original Java that comes with Windows 98 and ME (which is Sun Java anyway) the \Windows\Java\classes, packages and trustlib one.  Don't think that would do anything since it still exists in my ME installation after installing jre_1_0_5_22.  I am going to try a slightly earlier version that was suggested above.  The jre_1_5_0_7 version.  I see that it doesn't use the windows msi installer but the Intel installer.  Maybe I'll have better luck with that.  Let you know tomorrow.

[justacruzr2]

4 hours ago, schwups said:

I realised that this Java folder - C:\Program Files\Common Files\Java\ - can also cause problems. Rename or delete this folder.
And look for msi, jusched and java log files in the Windows temp folder.

Have nothing Java related in Common Files yet.  Seems that 98 wants to put its data in Windows\Local Settings.  I realize this seems more like XP but MS might have been doing that in 98.  I also remember that folder being created in ME once.  I moved the data to Windows\Application Data and adjusted the registry entry to point to that directory instead.  As for "And look for msi, jusched and java log files in the Windows temp folder."  the install hasn't created anything in the Temp folder.  It fails before it does much of anything.  And the only thing in the registryJava related are the entries for the Java that comes with 98 and ME.

[NotHereToPlayGames]

2 minutes ago, justacruzr2 said:

And the only thing in the registryJava related are the entries for the Java that comes with 98 and ME.

I'd REMOVE those registry entries despite "coming with" 98 and ME.

I'd REMOVE any and all Java registry entries - whether they "came with" 98 or ME or not.

I'd REMOVE any and all Java folders - whether they "came with" 98 or ME or not.

[awkduck]

@justacruzr2 One other thing you could try, is installing it in safe mode. I've had to do that once.

Alternatively, you could uninstall it on ME. Then export your ME registry to something like "B4.REG". Download a new-ish Regshot and 9x usable Windiff. If the version of Regshot is too old, I'm not sure that it records file changes; which "here" is the only reason for using it. Run Regshot, and take your first shot. Install Jre 5 22 again. Take your second shot and then export your registry a second time to something like "AF.REG". Then you are going to compare the two shots and reg files. With the Regshot comparison, only note the new files; the registry list is not REGEDIT4 formatted. Now run Windiff:

WINDIFF.EXE -FRX JAVAIN.REG B4.REG AF.REG

The order of files listed "IS" important.

You'll need to open JAVEIN.REG in Windows Write. At the top and bottom of the file, there are lines starting with "--". They are from Windiff, and can be cut out. At the top of the file, add a line "REGEDIT4". The click "Edit > Replace". In "Find What" type " !> ", without the quotations and including the spaces. Then click "Replace All" and save the file. This is optional, copy the file to "JAVAUN.REG". Edit it and delete everything in "JAVAUN.REG", that that isn't in between square brackets "[]"; also leaving REGEDIT4 at the top. Run replace again, this time with "[" in "Find What" and "[-" in "Replace With". Save the file.

Now you can copy the "new" files, listed in the Regshot compare, and the two JAVA*REG files to Win98. Make sure you copy things to the same place, as on ME. Finally, double click on JAVAIN.REG.

At this point, you should be able to use "Add and Remove Programs" to uninstall Java. But you could delete JAVA's uninstall folder, and just use JAVAUN.REG; deleting the copied files afterwards.

A note, you don't need everything in the JAVAIN.REG file. Some keys, especially at the end, are not needed. I imagine you already know this. But I'm adding it for the sake of other readers.

[justacruzr2]

18 hours ago, awkduck said:

@justacruzr2 One other thing you could try, is installing it in safe mode. I've had to do that once.

Alternatively, you could uninstall it on ME. Then export your ME registry to something like "B4.REG". Download a new-ish Regshot and 9x usable Windiff. If the version of Regshot is too old, I'm not sure that it records file changes; which "here" is the only reason for using it. Run Regshot, and take your first shot. Install Jre 5 22 again. Take your second shot and then export your registry a second time to something like "AF.REG". Then you are going to compare the two shots and reg files. With the Regshot comparison, only note the new files; the registry list is not REGEDIT4 formatted. Now run Windiff:

WINDIFF.EXE -FRX JAVAIN.REG B4.REG AF.REG

The order of files listed "IS" important.

You'll need to open JAVEIN.REG in Windows Write. At the top and bottom of the file, there are lines starting with "--". They are from Windiff, and can be cut out. At the top of the file, add a line "REGEDIT4". The click "Edit > Replace". In "Find What" type " !> ", without the quotations and including the spaces. Then click "Replace All" and save the file. This is optional, copy the file to "JAVAUN.REG". Edit it and delete everything in "JAVAUN.REG", that that isn't in between square brackets "[]"; also leaving REGEDIT4 at the top. Run replace again, this time with "[" in "Find What" and "[-" in "Replace With". Save the file.

Now you can copy the "new" files, listed in the Regshot compare, and the two JAVA*REG files to Win98. Make sure you copy things to the same place, as on ME. Finally, double click on JAVAIN.REG.

At this point, you should be able to use "Add and Remove Programs" to uninstall Java. But you could delete JAVA's uninstall folder, and just use JAVAUN.REG; deleting the copied files afterwards.

A note, you don't need everything in the JAVAIN.REG file. Some keys, especially at the end, are not needed. I imagine you already know this. But I'm adding it for the sake of other readers.

Thanks.  I'll try this.  But first a bit of good news.  The Java 5 update 7 installed perfectly fine.  So what I'm going to do first is see if the update 22 will install now that there is a previous version on the system.  If not I will try your idea.  I'll let you know.

[awkduck]

7 hours ago, justacruzr2 said:

But first a bit of good news.  The Java 5 update 7 installed perfectly fine.

Progress is progress. Thanks, for the update.

[justacruzr2]

On 2/9/2023 at 10:20 PM, awkduck said:

Progress is progress. Thanks, for the update.

That idea didn't work either.  Not yours, mine.  Didn't matter that there was a previous version installed.   Also tried to go online and do the online update instead.  That didn't work since Firefox 3.6.23 is out of date.  It does go to Google but most websites I try to go to I get the FF error message problem loading page - no cypher overlap.  Wish someone would make a stand alone browser.  One that doesn't depend on Windows OS files.  Sure it's more work but it would work on any OS, except maybe the oldest one.

[schwups]

On 2/13/2023 at 11:04 PM, justacruzr2 said:

Also tried to go online and do the online update instead.  That didn't work since Firefox 3.6.23 is out of date.  It does go to Google but most websites I try to go to I get the FF error message problem loading page - no cypher overlap. 

Firefox 3.6.xx doesn't even support cryptographic protocol TLS1.2 and has expired certificates. You need at least TLS 1.2 support.
Solutions provided by Roytam:
http://o.rthost.win/gpc/files1.rt/
- Retrozilla (rzbrowser-tls12-20221208.7z)
- K-Meleon 1.5.4 TLS1.2 (K-Meleon1.5.4en-US.tls12.20200131.7z)

With old KernelEX 4.5.2:
- Firefox 3.6.28 (fx36vc71-20171108_newnss.20200426.7z)
- new nss files for Firefox 8-10 (Firefox8-new-nss.20200301.7z and Firefox10-new-nss.20200229.7z =>simply replace the original nss files by the new

.....

or try Opera 12.02 - TLS1.2 have to be enabled.

Note that such old browsers only display today's websites in a very limited way or can crash/freeze with Javascript enabled and the pages are often not (fully) functional.

On 2/13/2023 at 11:04 PM, justacruzr2 said:

Wish someone would make a stand alone browser.  One that doesn't depend on Windows OS files.  Sure it's more work but it would work on any OS, except maybe the oldest one.

- seems rather visionary

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by schwups

[justacruzr2]

On 2/6/2023 at 3:21 PM, awkduck said:

@justacruzr2 Do you by chance have 1.5.0_06 already installed? It is weird that it wants a prior Java version XML file.

If so, you could uninstall it. Then try to install via the update 22 file.

You might also try the AUTO_UPDATE=DISABLE argument. Maybe even the STATIC=1 argument.

Hey Awduck, must have missed this reply.  No I don't have Java 5 update 6 installed but I think I know where it came from.  The jrestub I had saved was for Java 5 Update 6.  I did try the STATIC argument but that didn't work.  Didn't know about the AUTO_UPDATE=DISABLE argument.  I'll try that.  Didn't see that one one the JAVA documentation archive.

[justacruzr2]

1 hour ago, schwups said:

Firefox 3.6.xx doesn't even support 1.2 and has expired certificates. You need at least TLS 1.2 support.
Solutions provided by Roytam:
http://o.rthost.win/gpc/files1.rt/
- Retrozilla (rzbrowser-tls12-20221208.7z)
- K-Meleon 1.5.4 TLS1.2 (K-Meleon1.5.4en-US.tls12.20200131.7z)

With old KernelEX 4.5.2:
- Firefox 3.6.28 (fx36vc71-20171108_newnss.20200426.7z)
- new nss files for Firefox 8-10 (Firefox8-new-nss.20200301.7z and Firefox10-new-nss.20200229.7z =>simply replace the original nss files by the new

.....

or try Opera 12.02 - TLS1.2 have to be enabled.

Note that such old browsers only display today's websites in a very limited way or can crash/freeze with Javascript enabled and the pages are often not (fully) functional.

- seems rather visionary

 

Thanks.  I just downloaded the nss files from the first link you provided.  I have tried FF 8 and 10.  Without the updated nss files they are pretty much the same as 3 except the bookmarks don't work (well known problem).  I really didn't like that.  Sometime in the future I will try one of those other browsers you mention.  Actually been meaning to read the various discussions here about browsing in the here and now (2023) with the old 9x OS's.

 

I guess it is visionary but it is true.  That's what ties browsers to certain OS'S.  They are taking advantage of the already written routines that come with Windows.  I don't blame them.  It saves them time writing the code.  Guess I would probably do the same.  Who knows.  Maybe some ambitious programmer will have mercy on us.

[awkduck]

5 hours ago, justacruzr2 said:

Who knows.  Maybe some ambitious programmer will have mercy on us.

If you go far enough, then you'd have to deal with all the different hardware variations. The JAVA, write once and run everywhere, idea was cool. But I'd hate to use a modern web browser, written in JAVA.

Eventually, most people's idea of an OS will interface through a scripted client/server GUI environment. Our devices will be nothing but kiosks. Getting a new OS, will be upgrading your "OS as a Service" package.

So, ironically, well be hoping our kiosk-ish devices are compatible with the service. A reversal. Needing the right browser, to access your OS; rather then the right OS to use access your browser.

Note: A kiosk does have an OS. But in this situation, its more akin to soft firmware.

This is the only way a Metaverse could work. You can't fluidly go from device to device, each one loading everything up. Nor would you want to walk around, with augmented glasses etc., connected to some large GPU/CPU and storage media. From your bathroom > living room > sidewalk > car, the stream is just re-initiated where you left off. Until B.C.I.s become popular. Then it would be just one stream, that follows you around.

I'm not looking forward to it, but one day it will be difficult connecting these devices/OSs to the Internet. Perhaps illegal. A device with user guided processing, on this side of the cloud, may be considered insecure. You can imagine, it would much easier to secure the Internet/Metaverse "from bad actors" if everyone only has direct access to the input side of things. We are nearing that, with smart phones. They are powerful computers, with well curated portals to apply that power.

The browsers we know, will be (are being) reinvented between retro group hobbyists. Kinda like how the 8/16bit retro scene still comes out with new browsers. Hackaday has a retro webpage, for old machines on the Internet. That's gonna be us one day :) Sooner, if you've went to check that link, in your Win9x browser.