Win 98se on an emachines etower 633ids - Part 2

[justacruzr2]

In my last post a few months ago I was thinking that maybe the motherboard didn't have all the correct drivers installed so I was going to try the driver update.  When I ran the update it said I already had them installed.  OK so I did a search in Millennium Windows\Inf for any files that had AC'97 Sound Card or the registry key: VEN_8086&DEV_2415&SUBSYS_3151109F&REV_02 in them (I have 4 hard drives on this computer one of which has Millennium).  I found 3...KS, wdmaudio and wdma_int.  I think the _int in wdma_int stands for Intel.  This inf doesn't exist in 98SE's Inf directory.  So after renaming 98SE's KS and wdmaudio (so I don't lose them), I copied all 3 over from Millennium to 98SE.  I also copied all the registry entries from Millenium that had anything to do with the AC'97 sound card (which is really an onboard integrated chip) and imported them into 98SE's registry (I made a backup first in case there were any problems).  Then I went into Device Manager in 98SE and did the "update driver" for the Multimedia sound device which at that time was in the "unknown" category.  Well this did make a difference.  In the Mulitmedia properties in Control Panel it now shows the AC'97 sound card as the preferred device for Recording but the Playback is still "greyed out".  Something is still missing.  Does anybody know what file 98SE uses to communicate with the sound card driver?  I'm wondering if this might be the problem.  I have a few other ideas too but wanted to see what any of you think.  98SE and Millenium are fairly compatible.  The other OS on this computer is XP Pro and both Millenium and XP have no sound problems.

Funny thing is that when the eMachines 633ids was released it did come with 98SE then later Millenium.

[Goodmaneuver]

I would try installing this driver but before you do delete the ALCXWMD.sys file located in the System32\Drivers folder if it exists. There is also an option to install a Win9x VXD driver.

https://www.driverguide.com/driver/detail.php?driverid=142611&si=5f3d1e71687508bc94c549cffb553ac6

[awkduck]

@Goodmaneuver It could just be my browser. I've downloaded several drivers from "driver guide"; but this one never starts. Even after clicking "restart download", I get nothing.

I don't personally need it. But could someone else check the download? Maybe it is just a temporary server issue?

I've noted that the device ID also matches up in the AC97 Win95 pack.

How important is it that the subsystem ID matches?

I have found one where everything matches with the exception of "&REV_02" (intel/crystal cs429x); but it is a WDM driver.

[Goodmaneuver]

It could be listed different in servers of different countries. Also you need to click on Download Now button where an acknowledgment of not a robot popup will need ticking. If still a problem then try a search for Fastfame A2.71_ALC201A Driver Download (Official). The use of a VXD driver though will need to be a manual install not an auto install, directing install to the Win9x folder only.

[Goodmaneuver]

On 1/5/2023 at 4:02 PM, awkduck said:

How important is it that the subsystem ID matches?

I would suggest it be accurate?

 

On 1/5/2023 at 4:02 PM, awkduck said:

I've noted that the device ID also matches up in the AC97 Win95 pack.

That should work then but VXDs are not necessarily compatible between the Win98 and WinME I have found.

[awkduck]

7 hours ago, Goodmaneuver said:

It could be listed different in servers of different countries. Also you need to click on Download Now button where an acknowledgment of not a robot popup will need ticking. If still a problem then try a search for Fastfame A2.71_ALC201A Driver Download (Official). The use of a VXD driver though will need to be a manual install not an auto install, directing install to the Win9x folder only.

It gets past the captcha robot acknowledgement . It says "Your download will start in a moment", "If it doesn't restart the download."

But it also does nothing when I click the restart. Since I can still download other drivers, from them, I'm wondering if it is just that driver that is down. But if it is still active for other people, it would be pretty strange.

[Goodmaneuver]

You are wright it does not download any more. I am sorry for not trying to download it again; I downloaded it yesterday.

[awkduck]

Well, I today I can't download anything from them. So I was right and "now" partly wrong. It must be a server maintenance thing.

I was going to see if the VEN/DEV/SUB/REV in the inf file matched better then the one I shared with justacruzr2.

On 12/27/2022 at 10:12 PM, justacruzr2 said:

I found 3...KS, wdmaudio and wdma_int.  I think the _int in wdma_int stands for Intel.  This inf doesn't exist in 98SE's Inf directory.  So after renaming 98SE's KS and wdmaudio (so I don't lose them), I copied all 3 over from Millennium to 98SE

In messaging I mentioned that wdmaudio.inf and KS.inf are Windows 98se Specific. So maybe replacing them with the originals allowed wdma_int.inf to work. Today I downloaded and examined a wdma_int.inf, it is definitely the inf for the card. I'm hoping the issue was resolved.

[justacruzr2]

No luck so far but I did find one more thing that doesn't look right.  Using System Information in 98se and clicking on Multimedia showed the AC'97 Sound card, Gameport Joystick and MS Kernel Audio Renderer installed, active and no problems.  I wanted to see what Millennium said so I did the same thing there too.  There it showed the above 3 items but also showed the MS Kernel Audio Mixer as well.  I'm assuming that 98se should have showed that as well so I started hunting in Millennium's registry and found some more keys related to the Audio Mixer.  I exported them but ran out of time to import them into 98se's registry.  I will do that tonight and see what happens.  The thing I wish I knew is the trail of files that produces sound in Windows.  It's all broken down into subprograms with one subprogram doing it's thing and then passing that onto another one that does it's thing and so on.  I really believe that this is registry entries and not missing files.  This could all have been avoided if there was a way to break into the original install of 98se and put the Millennium Inf's relating to the sound card in SE's Inf folder and then continue with the install but to the best of my knowledge there isn't.  That leaves me with the task of finding all those entries and importing them into 98se.  Daunting to say the least but I'm not giving up.  What's also a shame is that no update ever came out to fix this problem.  I had already installed all the 98se updates that MS issued, which included some for sound, but none of them did anything for this.  You'd think that MS would have become aware that sound cards were now being integrated into the mobo even though PCI/PCMCIA sound cards were also still being used and they would have issued an update.  Oh well!

For anyone that's interested, MSINFO32 from 98se works on ME as well without going thru the Help and Support center.  The files are the same size to the byte.  I didn't like that I actually got less info from MSINFO32 in ME so I just tried 98se's MSINFO32.

Some other things that work are Spider Solitaire and Pinball from ME on 98se.  Also MSBackup from 98se works in ME. And if you look in ME's Applets file in the Inf folder, you will see the paragraph for MSBackup but it's remmed out.  Wonder if they were going to give ME that too but decided that System Restore would do the same thing.  Ha!

[deomsh]

Can't help you as such, but just for the record: did you install DirectX 9.0c (win9x version)?

[awkduck]

@justacruzr2 Could you message me the contents of the wdma_int.inf file? Or maybe upload it somewhere? I don't think the forum would allow it, since it is part of a commercial product.

wdma_int.inf is the inf for your card. And putting it in the inf folder should work. You could test by putting wdma_int.inf, and all of the files for, it into a new folder folder. Then install it manually by directing "Device Manager" to install a driver from the new folder. You may first have to remove the wdma_int.inf file from the inf folder and remove the "non working" device from device manager. If wdma_int.inf has the ID VEN_8086&DEV_2415&SUBSYS_3151109F&REV_02 in it, Windows will pick it  and install the driver.

Unless the Millennium inf files for KS and wdmaudio have the exact same contents, as the ones from Win98, you should remove them and use the ones from Win98. The inf files contain all of the registry info you need. You should not need to enter them yourself. If the inf files provides different instructions for registry entries, between ME and 98, then you might be causing yourself a problem. If not, then it probably doesn't matter. Just something to keep in mind.

I understand that you may already know all of that. So it may be redundancy for the sake of thoroughness. You may very well be capable beyond the suggestion you've received. If it is redundancy, it is just to help get everyone on the same page.   

There is a very small chance that the driver isn't compatible with Win98. It does happen that, from time to time, a driver from ME isn't meant for 98. I doubt this is the problem. If it is, rloew's Wdmex might fix the issue. I was able to get a driver that was compatible with Win98SE, but not Win98FE, working on FE that way. You can get Wdmex here.

Edited January 10, 2023 by awkduck

[justacruzr2]

11 hours ago, deomsh said:

Can't help you as such, but just for the record: did you install DirectX 9.0c (win9x version)?

Yes I did.

[justacruzr2]

7 hours ago, awkduck said:

@justacruzr2 Could you message me the contents of the wdma_int.inf file? Or maybe upload it somewhere? I don't think the forum would allow it, since it is part of a commercial product.

wdma_int.inf is the inf for your card. And putting it in the inf folder should work. You could test by putting wdma_int.inf, and all of the files for, it into a new folder folder. Then install it manually by directing "Device Manager" to install a driver from the new folder. You may first have to remove the wdma_int.inf file from the inf folder and remove the "non working" device from device manager. If wdma_int.inf has the ID VEN_8086&DEV_2415&SUBSYS_3151109F&REV_02 in it, Windows will pick it  and install the driver.

Unless the Millennium inf files for KS and wdmaudio have the exact same contents, as the ones from Win98, you should remove them and use the ones from Win98. The inf files contain all of the registry info you need. You should not need to enter them yourself. If the inf files provides different instructions for registry entries, between ME and 98, then you might be causing yourself a problem. If not, then it probably doesn't matter. Just something to keep in mind.

I understand that you may already know all of that. So it may be redundancy for the sake of thoroughness. You may very well be capable beyond the suggestion you've received. If it is redundancy, it is just to help get everyone on the same page.   

There is a very small chance that the driver isn't compatible with Win98. It does happen that, from time to time, a driver from ME isn't meant for 98. I doubt this is the problem. If it is, rloew's Wdmex might fix the issue. I was able to get a driver that was compatible with Win98SE, but not Win98FE, working on FE that way. You can get Wdmex here.

I could make a text copy of it and insert it into a reply here and hope that it's not forbidden.  At this point I can't see why not.  An Inf file is just a script for an install.  What is different between ME's KS and wdmaudio is the addition of a few more products including the AC'97 sound card.  Right now I think the problem is the audio mixer.  It wasn't listed in the System Information as it is in ME.  That's when I searched the registry in ME for keys relating to the audio mixer.  I found several which I exported and had intended to import them into 98se last night which I did but it didn't work.  Reason for that was I forgot to edit those files before importing due to the fact that in ME the Enum\SW entry points to CurrentControlSet\Services\Class\Media\0002 when in 98se it should point to Media\0016.  That would be a very good reason it didn't work.  I fixed them last night but finished at 1:45AM and it was time to crash.  I'm going to do it again tonight with the correct information.  The key for the Audio Mixer is B7EA......and it should be listed in the Enum\SW section as a subkey. 

The problem stems from the fact that the initial install of 98se had no info on the AC'97 sound card so it didn't make any registry entries for sound.  And the reason I'm working on it now is because several apps will not install without a sound card present.  Namely Nero and Windows Media Player Classic and there may be others in the Entertainment category too.  I'll put the contents of the wdma_int.inf file up here tomorrow along with the results of tonight's attempt.  Hey and thank you for being interested.  I appreciate it and will always listen to someone else's opinion.

[pangoomis]

Not sure what the problems with sound are, Realtek AC97 v4.04 driver should work fine: https://tim.id.au/static/WDM_A404.exe

[justacruzr2]

Finally.  After working on this off and on since October...SUCCESS!  It was those reg entries for the audio mixer that were needed (after I fixed them to point to the right driver).  Last week I was reading an article on Microsoft's website regarding the KS system (which stands for kernel sound) to see if there was any info that would help me.  It was useful in that I learned that the audio renderer (the AC'97 sound card) and audio mixer are necessary to make sound.  It was also interesting that after all this time it hasn't changed much.  Except for the addition of a couple new KS categories, the sound reg keys are still the same.  These are the INF files that were needed from Millennium to install the AC'97 sound card and mixer: KS, KSFILTER, WDMAUDIO AND WDMA_INT.  I still have a couple more things to do regarding sound such as the Microsoft GS Wavetable Synthesizer.  I did import some Millennium reg entries for it as part of what I was doing to get the sound working, but since it wasn't the main focus of getting the sound to work, I didn't search the registry for every occurence. That's next.  It currently isn't being shown on the MIDI tab of the Multimedia properties page but it should be, along with the Roland MPU 401 instrument.  Anyway, I appreciate your help and I guess that it's not necessary to upload the contents of the WDMA_INT.INF file now.